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14 minutes ago, demon3165 said:

No forward line issue not sure what games you have been watching but it was the reason we were bundled out in straight sets two years in a row, and the struggles throughout the year with it....

Our fwd line issues relate to our inability to kick goals rather than points. In our four finals losses we have had more scoring shots.

 

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3 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Petty = Mihocek
JVR < McStay (youth)
Fullarton/J Smith < Cox

ANB > Ginnivan but only equal to in form Lipinski
Fritsch = Elliot (could be better if he defended)
Pickett > Hill (but has to back it up)
Chandler/Spargo << McCreery 

McAdam < Schultz

Are J. Smith and the fossils as useful depth as Ash Johnson and Frampton - probably not.

Does either side have great youth coming through, Jefferson and Reef McInnes both have talent but otherwise not really.

They’ve got the advantage for experience and depth of useful talls for now. But with time that can change.

In theory Petracca can go forward more easily than De Goey as we have a more explosive midfield mix. 

Probably about spot on based on this years form for mine. Petty, JVR and J Smith have a lot of scope to improve though through consistent playing time together. Just have to have those fingers crossed that we can keep them on the park and keep building their understanding.

If you get that, then Koz just needs to have the glass shatter moment where he realises that he actually has an extra second to compose himself and our perceived 'weak' fwdline because a wonderful strength.

Same with the other high calibre teams, if you can keep your best players on the park building cohesion, you're going to be very tough to beat.

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2 hours ago, TRIGON said:
  • Fullerton; been tracking for a while. Feel he got "stuck in the tube" at the Lions (behind Daniher, Hipwood etc)
  • Grundy; Charlie Gardiner at the Swans was great to deal with.
  • MacAdam; feels that a Future R2 is a fair offer.
  • Petty; 100% that he is NOT going anywhere. See him as the forward partner with JVR.
  • Draft Order; feels the points system creates a 2-tier system - clubs that need points and clubs that don't. This year we didn't and Taylor thinks there is a significant jump up in quality as you go higher. Potentially may try to trade up even further if the opportunity presents itself.
  • Pick 1; that's up to WCE.
  • Melksham; definitely with us in 2024, finalise whether that's primary or rookie list over the next few days. Thinks he might be back earlier than most people think.
  • Tomlinson; showed strong form in the back half of this year. He wanted to stay, we wanted him to stay.

First time I've listened to AFL Trade Radio. I feel dirty. It's shower time...

Animated GIF

 

Glad to hear Daniher, Hipwood, etc are having skinfold problems, then (though not if it contributed to their GF loss...)

Lamb actually said 'queue' but dear old 'Closed Captions' thought better...

Edited by Timothy Reddan-A'Blew
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1 hour ago, KingDingAling said:

We tried to address the forward line issues by drafting JVR, and last year Jefferson. Also retaining Petty could help us up forward. BBB and TMAC will be off the books after this year, so if JVR, Jefferson and Petty don’t work, we can spend up on a forward next trade period. We need to give them a chance this year as it’s what we targeted them for.

May is getting older, but we have Turner coming through, and he looks capable. 
 

We have nailed some good late picks in previous drafts in River, Bowey, McVee, and now we have pick 6 and 11, which is a good opportunity to replenish our future talent. We are in a good position to contend for a while longer yet. 

We have also added Fullarton, who on what I saw in the VFL this year, could be of some help and McAdam, a mid size forward who can take a big grab, might help also.

I hesitate to say this, but we also have Schache, though Goody is clearly not going to play him and fwiw, Turner played a scratch match up forward and did well, could he be tried up forward if needed?

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19 minutes ago, Demonsone said:

If people are thinking that Tmac who can hardly turn, BB who’s knee is shot, Melksham who want play until end of season with knee reco, Petty wit foot issue.. enough said 

How true, people wanted Tmac in and what happed nothing he's cooked, the staggering part of the finals and I nearly fell over was Goodwin when asked why Josh was not used in the final was Tmac brought the ball to the ground, well that was going to happen anyway because of way the delivery of the ball into the forward line.  Would have been better to have given Josh a crack anything could have happened as Tmac did nothing that is poor coaching imo when the game needed to be won.

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1 hour ago, binman said:

Repeat after me.

We. Do. Not. Have. Forward. Line. Issues.

A forward line with Petty, Fritter, JVR, Koz, Nibbla and Chandler is easily as strong as strong as the Pies forward line that netted them a flag: Mihocek, Elliott, Hill, McCreery, Ginivan and resting ruck.

Even if you add McStay, its still no better than our lineup

And that's not even factoring in that despite being completely written of by most fans both Tmac and BB could srill offer something next year and Jefferson is still developing.

Which is not to say a gun key forward wouldn't help, but for good reason it clearly isn't a major priority. 

So we don’t have Forward Line Personnel issues… because that is what the above is.

Plenty of other issues for the Forward Line to help solve.

But staying on personnel - lack of natural forwards in their prime. For a team in their window it’s a problem and why we need Petracca down there more, and for Pickett and JVR to continue their development to take on more than their ages would promise. Having $1m in tall forwards who are injured doesn’t help.

Melksham being so effective offensively (not his defensive role that is something he is uniquely capable of) is an insight into our reliance on youth, injured veterans, and repositioned mids and wings; Spargo and ANB do their best work outside the 50, I think this is part of why we want to bring in McAdam.

I think that forward line is capable of kicking a winning score in finals but we are banking on a few things happening to make sure of that…

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Liam Henry to the saints …. We are so proactive in reinvigorating the list with thus far a ruckman who couldn’t get a game at the lions…. What’s their strategy … Cleary front half issues yet virtually zero trades …. 

Edited by Demonsone
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57 minutes ago, BrisbaneDemon said:

I agree wholeheartedly mate, the she’ll be right attitude of posters above or go again with what we have and “hope” for improvement is a head scratcher.

Forget us posters. 

How about the professionals whose full time job is to make list decisions that help us win a flag. 

It would appear these professionals have seemingly determined a key forward is not a major priority.

Given the comparative expertise of your average DL poster and the recruiting team at the elite AFL level i think it is reasonable to put more weight in the latter's assessment of our current list needs.

Ipso facto, i'm happy to go with trading in a key forward is not not a major priority.

In other words she’ll be right.

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53 minutes ago, Timothy Reddan-A&#x27;Blew said:

Glad to hear Daniher, Hipwood, etc are having skinfold problems, then (though not if it contributed to their GF loss...)

Lamb actually said 'queue' but dear old 'Closed Captions' thought better...

My bad

Hot Shots Idiot GIF

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7 minutes ago, binman said:

Forget us posters. 

How about the professionals whose full time job is to make list decisions that help us win a flag. 

It would appear these professionals have seemingly determined a key forward is not a major priority.

Given the comparative expertise of your average DL poster and the recruiting team at the elite AFL level i think it is reasonable to put more weight in the latter's assessment of our current list needs.

Ipso facto, i'm happy to go with trading in a key forward is not not a major priority.

In other words she’ll be right.

From the sounds of it we were interested in Hawkins if he was to become available. I'm sure we have sniffed around other clubs to enquire about better KPF's as well. I would say the asking price for anyone at the Lynch/King levels would have been far too much for us to risk giving up players/picks. So maybe not a priority but I'm sure its been explored quite a bit.

More concerning and to your point Binman, I agree with you that the forwardline its self is not the main issue that ended our season early. It was indeed our kicking inside forward 50 mainly from our mids who are all below average kicks.

I was and still are hoping the club look at bringing in better forward half kicks being our biggest weakness at the moment.

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2 hours ago, binman said:

Repeat after me.

We. Do. Not. Have. Forward. Line. Issues.

A forward line with Petty, Fritter, JVR, Koz, Nibbla and Chandler is easily as strong as the Pies forward line that netted them a flag: Mihocek, Elliott, Hill, McCreery, Ginivan and resting ruck.

Even if you add McStay, it is still no better than our lineup

And that's not even factoring in that despite being completely written of by most fans both Tmac and BB could still offer something next year and Jefferson is still developing.

Which is not to say a gun key forward wouldn't help, but for good reason it clearly isn't a major priority. 

Should all of those guys be uninjured, fit and in some sort of form, sure, we have a reasonable forward line. Some you list I personally do not rate, but that's by the by.

Yet, Petty has had a horror run with injuries and JVR is still very much learning his trade. BBB and Tmac are struggling and appear to be cooked. We can only judge on what we've seen across the last season or two

I think Collingwood's front half, with the addition of Schultz is the better by some margin, but its almost a moot point, because of the way the two teams play and connect with their forwards.

Our midfield/foward connection is more important to fix than changing the personnel. Do this and we can succeed with Petty, JVR, Fritter and some of the others, assuming they are on the park

Having said that, if a FA key forward like King chose us next year, I'd be wrapped. Petty as 2nd tall and JVR as 3rd would be awsome. Would lift us from average forward line to top 3 in the comp

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5 minutes ago, Stiff Arm said:

Should all of those guys be uninjured, fit and in some sort of form, sure, we have a reasonable forward line. Some you list I personally do not rate, but that's by the by.

Yet, Petty has had a horror run with injuries and JVR is still very much learning his trade. BBB and Tmac are struggling and appear to be cooked. We can only judge on what we've seen across the last season or two

I think Collingwood's front half, with the addition of Schultz is the better by some margin, but its almost a moot point, because of the way the two teams play and connect with their forwards.

Our midfield/foward connection is more important to fix than changing the personnel. Do this and we can succeed with Petty, JVR, Fritter and some of the others, assuming they are on the park

Having said that, if a FA key forward like King chose us next year, I'd be wrapped. Petty as 2nd tall and JVR as 3rd would be awsome. Would lift us from average forward line to top 3 in the comp

Issue we have Petty & Melksham both injured & the latter want be back until late in the season, Tmac & BB it’s gone passed them & if they can get on the ground, so what’s left Shache… that’s right he was better than Grundy …. either we’re just not a destination clubs or our recruiting & coaches are asleep at the wheel 
 

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54 minutes ago, Young Blood said:

More concerning and to your point Binman, I agree with you that the forwardline its self is not the main issue that ended our season early. It was indeed our kicking inside forward 50 mainly from our mids who are all below average kicks.

Agree.

I'd add that a key difference between us and the two grand finalists is that both the Lions and Pies have goal kicking mids and utilities/half forward flankers. We don't. 

More than half the goals in the grand final were kicked by such players.

On a perfect day for footy key tall forwards only contributed 4 of the 25 goals kicked (Daniher 3 and Mihocek 1).

Hill and Cameron, both small crumbing forwards, kicked 7 between them, meaning the two forward lines (ie specialist forwards) combined only contributed 11 of the 25 goals kicked. 

Mids and utilities/half forward flankers contributed 14 of the 25 goals kicked: 

Collingwood: Hill 4, Crisp 2, De Goey 2, N.Daicos, Mihocek, Pendlebury, Sidebottom
Brisbane: Cameron 3, Daniher 3, Bailey 2, McCarthy 2, McCluggage 2, Robertson

Compare the above to our goals in the semi against the blues (also perfect conditions), where only two of our goals came from non forwards (compared to the Blues 5): 

Melbourne: Smith 3, Pickett 2, Fritsch 2, Langdon, Petracca 
Carlton: De Koning 2, Walsh 2, Motlop 2, Acres 2, Kennedy, Curnow, Owies

We have a much, much greater need for goal kicking mids and utilities/half forward flankers (eg Bailey, McCarthy, McCluggage, Daicos etc) that can also reliably hit targets than we do for key forwards. 

Edited by binman
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4 hours ago, Axis of Bob said:

What was also said is that Taylor believes that the difference in quality between 14 and 11 was quite significant, which is indicated by the price paid to move those picks.

There's obviously a big difference between the top 15 (including Academy/FS picks) and then there's a big drop off in quality after that. We've got two picks in that top group, which they're really happy with.


And we’d have to be. 
Even in the unlikely scenario that WC had said to us that a pick in the top 6, and another in the top 12 plus a F1 would do it for them, there are no guarantees. We could do all that trading only for North to decide it’s worth 2&3 (fwiw I don’t) and snooker us.

The only responsible thing for us to do as a club is to acquire pick 11 comfortable in the knowledge that a play for pick 1 might not have a successful outcome and we’d have to use it ourselves.

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35 minutes ago, binman said:

Agree.

I'd add that a key difference between us and the two grand finalists is that both the Lions and Pies have goal kicking mids and utilities/half forward flankers. We don't. 

More than half the goals in the grand final were kicked by such players.

On a perfect day for footy key tall forwards only contributed 4 of the 25 goals kicked (Daniher 3 and Mihocek 1).

Hill and Cameron, both small crumbing forwards, kicked 7 between them, meaning the two forward lines (ie specialist forwards) combined only contributed 11 of the 25 goals kicked. 

Mids and utilities/half forward flankers contributed 14 of the 25 goals kicked: 

Collingwood: Hill 4, Crisp 2, De Goey 2, N.Daicos, Mihocek, Pendlebury, Sidebottom
Brisbane: Cameron 3, Daniher 3, Bailey 2, McCarthy 2, McCluggage 2, Robertson

Compare the above to our goals in the semi against the blues (also perfect conditions), where only two of our goals came from non forwards (compared to the Blues 5): 

Melbourne: Smith 3, Pickett 2, Fritsch 2, Langdon, Petracca 
Carlton: De Koning 2, Walsh 2, Motlop 2, Acres 2, Kennedy, Curnow, Owies

Melbourne: Smith 3, Pickett 2, Fritsch 2, Langdon, Petracca 

We have a much, much greater need for goal kicking mids and utilities/half forward flankers (eg Bailey, McCarthy, McCluggage, Daicos etc) that can also reliably hit targets than we do for key forwards. 

Agree that we need more goals kicked from our midfielders. I think there is still some room to improve our balance and chemistry between inside/outside mids which will play a part. Unlike the other top teams we don't have any genuine class outside mids like the Daicos or McLuggage who are two of the most effective kicks inside 50 as well as hitting the scoreboard. Both are genuine outside mids. I suppose Gus and Trac would be our closest thing to outside mids but both are very inconsistent with their kicking. Our two wings are also very hit or miss with kicking efficiency as well.

So if no trades eventuate I would like to see the club look at different wrinkles or changes internally. We have our best kicks in our backline in the likes of Bowey and Salem. Perhaps its time to try them during preseason in a more dangerous forward half position. Food for thought...

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