James Harmes off to Essendon?

[jnrmac 18,980]

Harmes' Finishes in the Bluey

• 16th in 2022
• 19th in 2021
• not in top 20 2020
• 4th in 2019
• 3rd in 2018
• 17th in 2017
• 19th in 2016

Interesting to see how the club rates him and certainly the last 3 years he has underwhelmed (for whatever reason)

When we look to the club to improve the list they have to make decisions around players like this. As much as most of us like Harmes he has points of frustration with his game. His best is clearly very good. But too often we see average performances.

No we don't know what roles the coaches have him playing but the finishes in the Bluey are pretty telling for mine.

And when all is said and done I follow the club first and the players second,

We want success and so log as Harmes has been dealt with fairly and with respect then they must do what they have to do to improve the side.

 

[WalkingCivilWar 31,890]

6 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

Yet was willing to leave for more midfield minutes.

When you’re SOOOOO tempted to share on DL what you’ve been lucky enough to have been privy to but can’t because that’ll mean betraying a confidence. And because you know it may cast our Club in a bad light which is not cool. And because you KNOW Demonland is not by any stretch ignored by the Club in terms of reading content. So again…

Heart and bloody soul, trust me

[rjay 23,922]

2 hours ago, Redleg said:

So the issue might be semantics.

'Lord Nev' is the King of semantics...

[rpfc 27,476]

12 minutes ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

When you’re SOOOOO tempted to share on DL what you’ve been lucky enough to have been privy to but can’t because that’ll mean betraying a confidence. And because you know it may cast our Club in a bad light which is not cool. And because you KNOW Demonland is not by any stretch ignored by the Club in terms of reading content. So again…

Heart and bloody soul, trust me

What is wrong with James wanting to ensure he gets the most out of himself? It doesn’t mean he is less of a Demon than others. Same with Hunt. We can’t keep everyone for years, coin, or role that they want - and there is no harm in some on their periphery not being happy and moving on. 

[WalkingCivilWar 31,890]

It’s interesting 🤔 People love to bandy the whole “Culture” thing about with abandon, without stopping to think what Culture even means. The consensus is Culture is the foundation upon which success is built, among many other things just as important. 
So then a player who (trust me on this) is hands down THE most popular among his teammates, who for reasons many and varied would be THE MOST missed by his teammates, is rumoured to be leaving, forced or otherwise, people can’t see that this has the potential to erode what is currently an envious and successful Culture. 
I’m by no means saying if Harmesy left us that’d be the death Knell of our Club but ffs it also wouldn’t leave our Club to any degree unscathed. 

Edited October 4, 2022 by WalkingCivilWar
So excited for Harmesy, I left an entire word out.

[mo64 5,209]

13 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

Harmes' Finishes in the Bluey

• 16th in 2022
• 19th in 2021
• not in top 20 2020
• 4th in 2019
• 3rd in 2018
• 17th in 2017
• 19th in 2016

Interesting to see how the club rates him and certainly the last 3 years he has underwhelmed (for whatever reason)

When we look to the club to improve the list they have to make decisions around players like this. As much as most of us like Harmes he has points of frustration with his game. His best is clearly very good. But too often we see average performances.

No we don't know what roles the coaches have him playing but the finishes in the Bluey are pretty telling for mine.

And when all is said and done I follow the club first and the players second,

We want success and so log as Harmes has been dealt with fairly and with respect then they must do what they have to do to improve the side.

 

Petty finished 15th in the Bluey, so Harmes is in good company. I'd say it's all about Harmes' contract and freeing up cap space.

Harmes is replaceable, but if it's to come internally, I'm not sure who's an upgrade on Harmes.

 

 

[buck_nekkid 5,491]

Not going anywhere.  Heard it was a new vaccination hub and stumbled in there by accident.  Assures goody he feels much bettet after a cheeky shot and is raring to go….

[rpfc 27,476]

3 minutes ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

It’s interesting 🤔 People love to bandy the whole “Culture” thing about with abandon, without stopping to think what Culture even means. The consensus is Culture is the foundation upon which success is built, among many other things just as important. 
So then a player who (trust me on this) is hands down THE most popular among his teammates, who for reasons many and varied would be THE MOST missed by his teammates, is rumoured to be leaving, forced or otherwise, people can’t see that this has the potential to erode what is currently an envious and successful Culture. 
I’m by no means saying if Harmesy left us that’d be the death Knell of our Club but ffs it also wouldn’t our Club to any degree unscathed. 

No it wouldn’t be the death knell. What about a culture that knows a ‘heart and soul’ player is forced to play a periphery role due to generational midfield talent and letting him explore an opportunity to discuss a change so that he can test his mettle in the role he wants?

Now that is a healthy culture.

[WalkingCivilWar 31,890]

2 minutes ago, rpfc said:

What is wrong with James wanting to ensure he gets the most out of himself? It doesn’t mean he is less of a Demon than others. Same with Hunt. We can’t keep everyone for years, coin, or role that they want - and there is no harm in some on their periphery not being happy and moving on. 

Nothing at all wrong with that.

I was replying to Jaded’s implication that he’s not “heart n soul” since he looked for midfield minutes elsewhere. I asserted that he is indeed heart n soul based on what I’ve learned about the dynamics of our players as well other Club info but obviously am not gonna divulge since I’m not stupid.

 

[DubDee 20,662]

5 minutes ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

It’s interesting 🤔 People love to bandy the whole “Culture” thing about with abandon, without stopping to think what Culture even means. The consensus is Culture is the foundation upon which success is built, among many other things just as important. 
So then a player who (trust me on this) is hands down THE most popular among his teammates, who for reasons many and varied would be THE MOST missed by his teammates, is rumoured to be leaving, forced or otherwise, people can’t see that this has the potential to erode what is currently an envious and successful Culture. 
I’m by no means saying if Harmesy left us that’d be the death Knell of our Club but ffs it also wouldn’t our Club to any degree unscathed. 

I'm sure if Harmes chose to leave to get the most of himself and play midfield, his teammates would support him and it wouldn't damage our culture.  We are clearly not pushing him out based on what Lamb said

[Lucifers Hero 37,078]

7 minutes ago, mo64 said:

Petty finished 15th in the Bluey, so Harmes is in good company. I'd say it's all about Harmes' contract and freeing up cap space.

Harmes is replaceable, but if it's to come internally, I'm not sure who's an upgrade on Harmes.

That needs to be adjusted for the games played.  The average votes per game has Petty 7th and Harmes 8th.

So yes, Harmes (and Petty) is in good company just behind our 6, out and out champion AA players. 

Edited October 4, 2022 by Lucifers Hero

[YesitwasaWin4theAges 5,805]

According to Sam Edmund the club told Harmesy to have a chat to Essendon, he couldn't chat to Scott on the weekend for some unknown reason.

Word must have got back to Goody and Co that no discussions took place with Essendon and shut the discussions down, not happening.

End of story, change of heart, deep down Harmsey probably didn't want to leave, similar to what Gussy did with Essendon.

Edited October 4, 2022 by YesitwasaWin4theAges

[mo64 5,209]

2 minutes ago, DubDee said:

I'm sure if Harmes chose to leave to get the most of himself and play midfield, his teammates would support him and it wouldn't damage our culture.  We are clearly not pushing him out based on what Lamb said

Players are more understanding than supporters. They'll still remain friends outside of football. And as you say, it would be different if he was pushed.

[WalkingCivilWar 31,890]

1 minute ago, DubDee said:

I'm sure if Harmes chose to leave to get the most of himself and play midfield, his teammates would support him and it wouldn't damage our culture.  We are clearly not pushing him out based on what Lamb said

Small word, regarding its length that is. 

Anyways, I posted that Harmesy is heart n soul, someone questioned that, I reiterated he is heart n soul. And that’s it. 

[DeeSpencer 23,134]

3 minutes ago, YesitwasaWin4theAges said:

According to Sam Edmund The club told Harmesy to have a chat to Essendon, he couldn't chat to Scott on the weekend for some unknown reason.

Word must have got back to Goody and Co that no discussions took place with Essendon and shut the discussions down, not happening.

End of story change of heart, deep down Harmsey probably didn't want to leave, similar to what Gussy did with Essendon.

I think it’s as simple as Bedford leaving. Different players of course but Toby could’ve covered some of Harmes’ role. Without him we can afford to keep Harmes, don’t desperately need the pick and can’t get any skinnier with depth. 

[DeeSpencer 23,134]

34 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

 

Harmes' Finishes in the Bluey

• 16th in 2022
• 19th in 2021
•  

 

Have to factor in injuries but the 19th is a lot higher on points per game. Given Harmes has mostly been durable you can’t ding him for injuries too much.

The 16th is about where he rates on our list, with the proviso that he can be a top 10 or higher finisher if we did just use him in a permanent mid role. Considering winning footy always starts with the mids there’s a premium.

I get the feeling the list management plan is to draft or develop some proper midfield depth then reassess Harmes next year. Let’s see where Howes, Laurie, Woey and Chandler are at. They aren’t there yet 

[DeeZone 7,769]

27 minutes ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

Small word, regarding its length that is. 

Anyways, I posted that Harmesy is heart n soul, someone questioned that, I reiterated he is heart n soul. And that’s it. 

Totally agree WCW remember what happened to Hawthyin 2009 when they pushed out a couple of premiership players that Clarko said he wouldn’t do. Harmed the synergy created in 2008.!!

ps(hope Tim Lamb is correct and JH is a required player).

Edited October 4, 2022 by DeeZone
Added PS

[DeeZone 7,769]

34 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

That needs to be adjusted for the games played.  The average votes per game has Petty 7th and Harmes 8th.

So yes, Harmes (and Petty) is in good company just behind our 6, out and out champion AA players. 

Thanks LH that sounds much closer to the mark, Harry and James had good years, only the missed games cost them in the voting but both finished the year strongly.!!

[WalkingCivilWar 31,890]

40 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

That needs to be adjusted for the games played.  The average votes per game has Petty 7th and Harmes 8th.

So yes, Harmes (and Petty) is in good company just behind our 6, out and out champion AA players. 

Thank you Luci for putting this into perspective! Again proves you can’t just go by bare numbers. 

[Jaded No More 57,961]

40 minutes ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

Nothing at all wrong with that.

I was replying to Jaded’s implication that he’s not “heart n soul” since he looked for midfield minutes elsewhere. I asserted that he is indeed heart n soul based on what I’ve learned about the dynamics of our players as well other Club info but obviously am not gonna divulge since I’m not stupid.

 

I never ever implied that he is not a heart and soul player because he is looking for more midfield minutes. I implied very clearly that IF he chose to leave BECAUSE he wanted more midfield minutes, it would be HIS CHOICE. While you implied that it is somehow the club's fault if he left, although it's very clear that he is, and always will be, behind Trac, Clarry and Viney, so the club cannot simply let him have more midfield minutes to the detriment of team performance just to keep him happy.

I don't doubt that he is a well loved player, and I don't doubt for a minute the club wants to keep him. It sounds to me like the club said to him they can't promise him more midfield minutes, so if he wants to explore his options, they won't stop him (and can't really, players are free to always look around even while contracted). To me that speaks to a great culture that won't stop players from pursuing opportunities they can't get at Melbourne. 

[demon3165 1,918]

1 hour ago, jnrmac said:

Harmes' Finishes in the Bluey

• 16th in 2022
• 19th in 2021
• not in top 20 2020
• 4th in 2019
• 3rd in 2018
• 17th in 2017
• 19th in 2016

Interesting to see how the club rates him and certainly the last 3 years he has underwhelmed (for whatever reason)

When we look to the club to improve the list they have to make decisions around players like this. As much as most of us like Harmes he has points of frustration with his game. His best is clearly very good. But too often we see average performances.

No we don't know what roles the coaches have him playing but the finishes in the Bluey are pretty telling for mine.

And when all is said and done I follow the club first and the players second,

We want success and so log as Harmes has been dealt with fairly and with respect then they must do what they have to do to improve the side.

 

Spot on with those comments. 

[durango 1,979]

The question James should ask himself who would he replace in the midfield at Essendon, because Dyson Heppell is being played of the HBF.

At Melbourne he may get midfield minutes that were used by ANB or Sparrow.

[Redleg 37,615]

1 hour ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

It’s interesting 🤔 People love to bandy the whole “Culture” thing about with abandon, without stopping to think what Culture even means. The consensus is Culture is the foundation upon which success is built, among many other things just as important. 
So then a player who (trust me on this) is hands down THE most popular among his teammates, who for reasons many and varied would be THE MOST missed by his teammates, is rumoured to be leaving, forced or otherwise, people can’t see that this has the potential to erode what is currently an envious and successful Culture. 
I’m by no means saying if Harmesy left us that’d be the death Knell of our Club but ffs it also wouldn’t leave our Club to any degree unscathed. 

Lamb has stated categorically Harmes  is staying, so we can all breathe again.

[Demonland 65,182]

 

 

[DeeSpencer 23,134]

6 minutes ago, durango said:

The question James should ask himself who would he replace in the midfield at Essendon, because Dyson Heppell is being played of the HBF.

At Melbourne he may get midfield minutes that were used by ANB or Sparrow.

Heppell’s not afl standard, Harmes would immediately improve Essendon as an on baller if they wanted it, but they might prefer to play kids. Similarly he could be a consistent starting wingman there too. 

My guess is what he really wants is a 4-5 year deal on good coin to lock him to 31+. Especially if his existing deal was front loaded (as it should’ve been if we were switched on when he signed it).

The rest of our mids waited until they were 26 (or 24/25 ahead of time) to sign long deals that will pay them forever. Harmes - as a rookie pick who battled his way to becoming a good player - took the early money. Had he gambled on himself he’d be a free agent now and teams would gladly offer him a very nice deal.