Welcome to Demonland: Jacob Van Rooyen

[mauriesy 7,160]

56 minutes ago, Nascent said:

JVR attacks the contest with intensity and seems to have a good athletic profile. I recall our interest in Georgiades who stands at 191cm and has similar qualities. Seems our recruiting team certainly don't think his height will be a limiting factor.

It's not a limiting factor for Fritsch, who is 188cm. And only 84kg.

[monoccular 17,338]

58 minutes ago, loges said:

Weid has had many chances, what do you think you're going to see that you haven't seen from him over the past 6 years.

Sadly I am coming around to that view.  Great skills, good kick, seems to lack urgency and intensity. 

[roy11 3,696]

Who do you think would be more likely to get a game if injuries occur (to Tmac and Weid) Mitch Brown or JvR. Both booted 6 recently and at obviously at different ends of their careers. 

[Nascent 8,652]

13 minutes ago, Lord Travis said:

That’s what we all hope for, but he’s not there yet. He’s still a kid and he isn’t ready to replace Ben Brown or TMac in the current wide. He’s behind Weid on form also. Give him time and in the next 1-2 years he’ll probably be ready to step up and get a taste.

Agreed. Shows promising signs but definitely a development year.

[Deedubs 157]

33 minutes ago, mauriesy said:

It's not a limiting factor for Fritsch, who is 188cm. And only 84kg.

Fritsch is a lot more mobile than JVR. JVR is more like Tom McDonald and that's not a bad thing. 

[Lucifers Hero 38,985]

I wonder how long before the media start stories about WCE trying to entice him back to WA to replace Kennedy or Darling...

Edited May 17, 2022 by Lucifers Hero

[Deedubs 157]

4 hours ago, Lord Travis said:

Though he played both forward and back at underage level, the club is developing him as a forward. We have no other young tall forward talent. B Brown and TMac retire in the coming years (ask will M Brown and Daw) and we need to replace them. We have Weid and that’s it.down back we have plenty of options after May retires in a few years. We’ve got Lever, Petty, Tomlinson, Smith, Turner.

Roo will develop and stay a forward. He’s developing well so far for a young tall and will likely see game time at senior level next year IMO. He competes really well, not afraid of a contest, hits packs, shows footy smarts too. Exciting to see what he’ll become for our club in a few years.

Good post. We don't have much coming through in way of key forwards. And JVR is too small to be considered a key forward. Forwards are getting bigger and bigger these days. It'd be nice to have a 200cm+ forward on our list aka (Max King, Mackay, Chol) etc. obviously we won't have a high draft pick to pick one up so that's the challenge.
 

I wouldn't say Lever, petty, Tomlinson, Smith and Turner are Steven May replacements. Turner is unproven, Tomlinson is average at best, Lever is too small to play on the monsters and Joel Smith lacks footy smarts. Drafting a true 195cm+ key defender is also what we need. 

[DeeZone 8,998]

The coaches have stated that they do not put limitations on any of the new recruits and will play them when they show they are ready as they have with Dogga, Rivers, Kozzie and Bowey. So a call up may come sooner rather than later.!!!

Edited May 17, 2022 by DeeZone
Change wording

[Fat Tony 5,090]

3 hours ago, mauriesy said:

JVR is 1cm shorter than Josh Kennedy (700 goals), 2cm shorter than Jack Riewoldt (731 goals) and 3cm shorter than Jeremy Cameron (491 goals).

Look at the thickness of your thumb, that's about 2cm. Do you think that makes the difference between a forward who makes it and one who doesn't?

Kennedy, Riewoldt and Cameron are all great players and I am not saying it isn't possible to be a forward at 193cm, particularly if you are a dead eye kick.

That said, Paddy McCartin is 195cm and looks much more at home in defence than attack.

Van Rooyen is the same height as Neitz and like Neitz, he can play at either end. If Neitz were to be recruited in today's AFL, I think he would have been a better key defender.

[58er 6,000]

6 hours ago, Fat Tony said:

It was great to see Van Rooyen kick a bag on the weekend and get so much of the ball, even if the opposition was hopeless. He certainly looks a player of the future.

But I still think the game is trending against 193cm forwards, so I think he is more likely to make it in defence. Why? The current Coleman leaders include 10 giant forwards who have kicked 223 goals (Tom Lynch, Tom Hawkins, Peter Wright, Max King, Lance Franklin, Harry McKay, Levi Casboult, Joe Daniher, Mabior Chol, Mitch Lewis), 6 tall/mid-sized forwards who have kicked 130 goals (Charlie Curnow, Jeremy Cameron, Aaron Naughton, Brody Mihocek, Bayley Fritsch, Nick Larkey) and 4 small forwards who have kicked 81 goals (Zac Bailey, Charlie Cameron, Isaac Heeney, Shai Bolton). I don’t see Van Rooyen as being as elusive as the tall/mid-sized forwards batch except for maybe Larkey and Mihocek, who are both focal points of their attack due to necessity.

The other thing I would say is that our game plan for slow plays is to kick to big packs of 4+ and use our big ruckman and Brown. This isn’t a plan which suits smaller key forwards.

I think he projects more as a Weitering type defender, which is pretty exciting.

As for comparisons with the Ox. Pre-knee Ox was quicker and had a bigger leap and he played more like Charlie Curnow than Van Rooyen. Van Rooyen moves more like TMac but I doubt he has that level of endurance.

All that said, playing forward is not a bad thing for his development this year.

Fat Tony 

JVR will make a player forward or back despite his 192/3/4 cm height. He has other skills like all players and will use them plus his jump and judgement. 

 

[Demon Dynasty 17,094]

3 hours ago, loges said:

Hope he's a better kick than Greg Parke.

I believe he kicked over 60 in 1972.  Was probably his peak.  Pretty sure he still holds the record (or did until recently) for most marks in an VFL/AFL game with 24.

His kicking style was certainly unorthodox.

[Demon Dynasty 17,094]

2 hours ago, monoccular said:

Sadly I am coming around to that view.  Great skills, good kick, seems to lack urgency and intensity. 

I reckon he has the 'want/desire' and shows that in patches (AFL) but may just lack the leap/athleticism and agility/mobility to consistently impact?

Not AS critical at VFL level,  where he brings enough to do very well at times and occasionally gets on a roll attracting the interest of the SC.

[mo64 5,504]

2 hours ago, Lucifers Hero said:

I wonder how long before the media start stories about WCE trying to entice him back to WA to replace Kennedy or Darling...

Not the entire media, just Kelli Underwood. Didn't you know that JVR's VFL game against North was an audition for the WCE.

[djr 1,320]

2 hours ago, Deedubs said:

Good post. We don't have much coming through in way of key forwards. And JVR is too small to be considered a key forward. Forwards are getting bigger and bigger these days. It'd be nice to have a 200cm+ forward on our list aka (Max King, Mackay, Chol) etc. obviously we won't have a high draft pick to pick one up so that's the challenge.
 

I wouldn't say Lever, petty, Tomlinson, Smith and Turner are Steven May replacements. Turner is unproven, Tomlinson is average at best, Lever is too small to play on the monsters and Joel Smith lacks footy smarts. Drafting a true 195cm+ key defender is also what we need. 

JVR is taller than Charlie Curnow and he seems to go alright. Petty is 197cm and he was drafted as a key defender who will one day take over May's role.

[loges 6,767]

46 minutes ago, Demon Dynasty said:

I believe he kicked over 60 in 1972.  Was probably his peak.  Pretty sure he still holds the record (or did until recently) for most marks in an VFL/AFL game with 24.

His kicking style was certainly unorthodox.

Great mark, could have won us games if his kicking was better.

[monoccular 17,338]

3 hours ago, mo64 said:

Not the entire media, just Kelli Underwood. Didn't you know that JVR's VFL game against North was an audition for the WCE.

Oh ... is that what she said .... my auditory system totally collapsed. when she started her spiel ❌ 🦻

 

[Deedubs 157]

5 hours ago, djr said:

JVR is taller than Charlie Curnow and he seems to go alright. Petty is 197cm and he was drafted as a key defender who will one day take over May's role.

Curnow is the exception to the rule. But I don't see him as a true key forward. if you look at all of the leading goal kickers, it's undeniable that they're getting bigger and bigger. 
 

The average is 199cm for all key forwards. 199cm! 193cm is noticeably shorter than the average of true key forwards. So we need to recruit a true size key forward and key back.  
 

Tom Lynch: 199cm
Hawkins: 198cm
J.Cameron: 196cm
Peter Wright: 203cm
Max King: 202cm
Naughton: 195cm
Mackay: 204cm
Casboult: 199cm
Chol: 200cm
Franklin: 199cm
Daniher: 201cm
Nick Larkey: 198cm
Mitch Lewis: 199cm
Ben Brown: 200cm
Himmelberg: 195cm
Josh Kennedy: 196cm
*Ben King: 202cm
*injured

[DeeZone 8,998]

Maybe we recruit a tall second ruckman and use Dogga and van Rooyen as twin forwards??

[Rocknroll 1,002]

11 hours ago, Deedubs said:

Curnow is the exception to the rule. But I don't see him as a true key forward. if you look at all of the leading goal kickers, it's undeniable that they're getting bigger and bigger. 
 

The average is 199cm for all key forwards. 199cm! 193cm is noticeably shorter than the average of true key forwards. So we need to recruit a true size key forward and key back.  
 

Tom Lynch: 199cm
Hawkins: 198cm
J.Cameron: 196cm
Peter Wright: 203cm
Max King: 202cm
Naughton: 195cm
Mackay: 204cm
Casboult: 199cm
Chol: 200cm
Franklin: 199cm
Daniher: 201cm
Nick Larkey: 198cm
Mitch Lewis: 199cm
Ben Brown: 200cm
Himmelberg: 195cm
Josh Kennedy: 196cm
*Ben King: 202cm
*injured

Steven may is 193cm and smashed all these players week in week out.  Height is only one metric.  

[Deedubs 157]

17 minutes ago, Rocknroll said:

Steven may is 193cm and smashed all these players week in week out.  Height is only one metric.  

I've shown you the facts. Just because we have the best defender in the league doesn't discount the fact that the best key forwards on avg are 199cm and they're only going to get bigger with guys like Sam Darcy (207cm) coming into the league. We need guys of genuine height, at both ends. 

Edited May 18, 2022 by Deedubs

[DeeZone 8,998]

Dazzle or someone close to the club could you catch young Rooyen by surprise and run a tape over him to check his actual height.?? And don’t forget to ask him is he still growing this will help reduce our stress levels.😳👍👌🤘🙏

[FlashInThePan 1,893]

47 minutes ago, Deedubs said:

I've shown you the facts. Just because we have the best defender in the league doesn't discount the fact that the best key forwards on avg are 199cm and they're only going to get bigger with guys like Sam Darcy (207cm) coming into the league. We need guys of genuine height, at both ends. 

Sorry DeeDubs, you've shown some data and drawn a conclusion that there is a causal relationship. In stats there is a very famous warning about mistaking correlation for causation. Not only do we need to be careful about mistaking correlation for causation but also confirmation bias. When you start looking for tall forwards that meet your criteria you may already have missed a lot of valid contradictory data.

I'm not saying you are wrong, by the way, just that what you have posted is not proof that all good forwards are 199cm+ just data showing that there have been some really good very tall forwards recently

[Sydee 4,205]

1 hour ago, Deedubs said:

I've shown you the facts. Just because we have the best defender in the league doesn't discount the fact that the best key forwards on avg are 199cm and they're only going to get bigger with guys like Sam Darcy (207cm) coming into the league. We need guys of genuine height, at both ends. 

Height in itself can be an advantage however it can also mean you are less mobile 

Personally I would prefer a fit Allen Jakovich (187cm) or Jason Dunstall (191cm) than BBB as our FF but that's just me 

[one_demon 826]

16 minutes ago, Sydee said:

Personally I would prefer a fit Allen Jakovich (187cm) or Jason Dunstall (191cm) than BBB as our FF but that's just me 

The era where full forwards just stood in the goal square for most of the day

[Deedubs 157]

33 minutes ago, FlashInThePan said:

Sorry DeeDubs, you've shown some data and drawn a conclusion that there is a causal relationship. In stats there is a very famous warning about mistaking correlation for causation. Not only do we need to be careful about mistaking correlation for causation but also confirmation bias. When you start looking for tall forwards that meet your criteria you may already have missed a lot of valid contradictory data.

I'm not saying you are wrong, by the way, just that what you have posted is not proof that all good forwards are 199cm+ just data showing that there have been some really good very tall forwards recently

I never said all good forwards are 199cm. I simply said that the average 'tall forward' is about 199cm. Across a sample size of about 20 of the leading key forwards. That's a large enough sample size to see the direction that the league is heading. 

I would always take a good hybrid forward like a Heeney or Fritsch over a bad forward of true key position height like Callum Coleman-Jones. But once Ben Brown is done, we will have the smallest forward line in the league height wise. I think Gawn can play full time forward in a few years if Jackson stays but I think it's really important to be dangerous in the air and make opponents put their tallest defender on our tallest forward. With a forward line of TMac and Van Rooyen, it's a very easy match up for opposition as they'll never have to worry about being out-sized. Both are not super mobile and both are not tall. Both are not quick. That doesn't mean they aren't good or in JVR won't be a great player and have other traits like footy smarts, goal sense, be a strong mark etc. but in terms of match ups these guys won't stress the opposition. If Gawn plays forward or we somehow find a genuine 200cm+ tall forward then all of a sudden TMac and JVR are getting 2nd tall defenders.