Jump to content

  • Podcast:     

  • Podcast:     

TRAINING: Monday 1st February 2021



Recommended Posts

  • Replies 56
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

So no-one could be bothered driving for an hour to watch training from behind a fence and then writing a long report about it? This forum is hopeless!

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2021/01/31/key-forwards-dominate-for-new-clubs-in-intra-club-matches/   brown kicked 6 in a quarter of an intra club game. Not sure if this has been posted elsewhere

Shows we have poor coaching and a VFL quality backline at best,  which will get toweled up by Dixon, Lynch, Hawkins etc. 6-8 wins in 2021 is all we can hope for, with everyone below us except Nor

Posted Images


4 hours ago, drdrake said:

A nice little video of some training on the club website.  I hope the players watch this, every time we did the flick handpass over the shoulder it was a turnover.  Can't believe the coaching staff haven't banned this handball.  It is like a 3 point shot in basketball, great when it comes off but really you are only going to hit 10-20%

Well you better tell Steph curry to stop shooting those threes it just doesn't work, only 3 championship, should have 4 really after leading 3 1 in one of those finals

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, spalding said:

Shows we have poor coaching and a VFL quality backline at best,  which will get toweled up by Dixon, Lynch, Hawkins etc.

6-8 wins in 2021 is all we can hope for, with everyone below us except North and Adelaide going straight past us.

Just thought I'd get in before the usual glass half full posters.

Well it better he kicks 6 goals against a VFL Backman then kick none, then we will be in trouble. Generally 1 side is the best 22 and the other is the best of the rest, if brown was playing for the best of the rest, then yes our backline will be no good and is in big trouble.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

In the past 3 meetings Dixon averages 1 goal against the Demons, Hawkins averages 1 goal and Lynch averages just over 2... Hardly a respectable outcome against VFL Backmen... I would have to say on that showing that all three are nearing the end!

Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, In Harmes Way said:

You should go one harder dc and wait until it snows to really get some cred

Now to just get them to come to Ballarat to train.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, spalding said:

Shows we have poor coaching and a VFL quality backline at best,  which will get toweled up by Dixon, Lynch, Hawkins etc.

6-8 wins in 2021 is all we can hope for, with everyone below us except North and Adelaide going straight past us.

Just thought I'd get in before the usual glass half full posters.

Must have been a long to kick 6 goals with that 100 metre walk up to the mark each time.

  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, drdrake said:

A nice little video of some training on the club website.  I hope the players watch this, every time we did the flick handpass over the shoulder it was a turnover.  Can't believe the coaching staff haven't banned this handball.  It is like a 3 point shot in basketball, great when it comes off but really you are only going to hit 10-20%

Dogs won a flag with it.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, don't make me angry said:

Well you better tell Steph curry to stop shooting those threes it just doesn't work, only 3 championship, should have 4 really after leading 3 1 in one of those finals

Ah, the old Steph Curry comeback in a 3-pointer argument.  Generally, the league average for 3-points made is around 1 in 3.  And further to that, of the total rebounds, only 1 in 4 are offensive rebounds.  An interesting side note - the league averages for free throws is around 75%.  Curry is well above league average (no surprise there), consistently hitting 40+% of his 3s, and regularly over 90% of his free throws.

Moral of the story?  Do the basics right.  Players in the NBA, the most elite level of their sport, have a 66% chance of missing a 3-pointer, and when they do, it is 75% likely that the ball will go to the opposition.  Unless you are a freakish talent like Curry, you might as well just walk up and hand the ball to the opposition, then hope that once in 4 times you do it that they drop it and you get it back.

Dr Drake's point about over the head handballs is that it's a low % play with a high risk of turnover, which frustrates me when we can't get the basics right.

Edited by The Chazz
  • Like 2
  • Facepalm 1
  • Sad 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

35 minutes ago, The Chazz said:

Ah, the old Steph Curry comeback in a 3-pointer argument.  Generally, the league average for 3-points made is around 1 in 3.  And further to that, of the total rebounds, only 1 in 4 are offensive rebounds.  An interesting side note - the league averages for free throws is around 75%.  Curry is well above league average (no surprise there), consistently hitting 40+% of his 3s, and regularly over 90% of his free throws.

Moral of the story?  Do the basics right.  Players in the NBA, the most elite level of their sport, have a 66% chance of missing a 3-pointer, and when they do, it is 75% likely that the ball will go to the opposition.  Unless you are a freakish talent like Curry, you might as well just walk up and hand the ball to the opposition, then hope that once in 4 times you do it that they drop it and you get it back.

Dr Drake's point about over the head handballs is that it's a low % play with a high risk of turnover, which frustrates me when we can't get the basics right.

up until the last few years when it became clear what a weapon a 3 point shot was compared to a 2

there's a good ringer article here: https://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/2/27/18240583/3-point-boom-nba-daryl-morey

i guess, ultimately, 3 points will always be worth more than 2, thus the risk-reward ratio is skewed 50% higher to the benefit of shooting a 3 than a mid-range 2

not to mention that - for the most part - the chance of an offensive rebound is far greater off the back of a missed 3 than a missed 2, due to the spread on the floor

the other big change is that so many more players at that elite level are getting what's considered 'wide open' 3 point attempts; the % of players shooting higher % from outside the arc has increased exponentially over the years:

3_Point_Attempts_Per_Game_by_Defensive_Proximity.png

from 22-24 foot (i.e. just beyond the arc) the likelihood of making a shot is insignificantly different from 4-21 feet to make it worthwhile to take the greater risk and earn 50% more points per shot made:

NBA_Shooting_Percentage_by_Distance__2017_18__1_.png

people like the curry brothers, klay thompson, dame lillard etc are freaks when it comes to the long-range shot, but there's good reason as to why it has expanded as the go-to shot from back in the final years of jordan: 

image.png.b6973c19a94f32d4cbf4e4f9a70b7c8b.png

image.png.19a254d36dab805f4147adaaaeb646d0.png

but, back to our side, FOR GOD'S SAKE DON'T HANDBALL OVER YOUR HEAD!!

taking a 3-point shot and handballing over your head are COMPLETELY UNRELATED as far as i am concerned, as the 3-point shot is a scoring attempt, whereas a handball over your head is effectively a no look pass to someone behind you which is just a ludicrous thing to do

i hate seeing our players do it

  • Like 5
  • Love 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, The Chazz said:

Ah, the old Steph Curry comeback in a 3-pointer argument.  Generally, the league average for 3-points made is around 1 in 3.  And further to that, of the total rebounds, only 1 in 4 are offensive rebounds.  An interesting side note - the league averages for free throws is around 75%.  Curry is well above league average (no surprise there), consistently hitting 40+% of his 3s, and regularly over 90% of his free throws.

Moral of the story?  Do the basics right.  Players in the NBA, the most elite level of their sport, have a 66% chance of missing a 3-pointer, and when they do, it is 75% likely that the ball will go to the opposition.  Unless you are a freakish talent like Curry, you might as well just walk up and hand the ball to the opposition, then hope that once in 4 times you do it that they drop it and you get it back.

Dr Drake's point about over the head handballs is that it's a low % play with a high risk of turnover, which frustrates me when we can't get the basics right.

Have you watched basketball in the last decade? Read anything about analytics?

The entire sport has changed to find the most efficient shots which are:

- 3 pointers

- Dunks and layups

- Free throws 

Apart from freakish midrange scorers like Kawhi everything is designed around efficiency. 3 > 2. 35% from 3 beats 50% from 2.

Anyway, back on topic. Pressure has drastically changed afl footy. It’s no longer possible to just string multiple regulation hand balls together and get anywhere. Teams will flood the area and force bad turnovers. 
 

I hate the Hollywood handballing and thing it often should be banned, but the umpires have allowed it. So in the right moment it absolutely has its use and should be trained. Lewis was good at it. Salem is good at it. Jones probably not so much. 
 

But if we keep our shape around the contest and know where the outlets are it’s actually not all that risky. It either works or it gets turnover but it’s in tight and we’ve then got a chance to pressure and cause a more costly turnover.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Has ANB changed his body shape dramatically (see pic 15 in the gallery of Training photos) or am I imagining things? He seems much leaner. I wonder whether a change in his role is to follow?

I wouldn’t say dramatically but the crew cut pairs nicely with added definition in his arms and shoulders now he’s fully matured.

He’s always been super fit and really only suited to the high half forward role so I wouldn’t expect a change. But hopefully he can stick more tackles with a more aggressive approach to the contest and tackling. Legally this time too.

Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Has ANB changed his body shape dramatically (see pic 15 in the gallery of Training photos) or am I imagining things? He seems much leaner. I wonder whether a change in his role is to follow?

I noticed that as well but it is a real change over his career, he has gotten bigger and leaner (lost the "puppy fat"). I don't know if he is good enough for midfield minutes but I just think he is wasted as an up and down the ground running fwd. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, BW511 said:

Steven May looks very lean.

Rivers has definitely added some mass, he is a good size!

Reading about the man on the mark rule change, feels that might suit Rivers running up the ground. Possibly the reason they’ve switched Hunt back as well.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, Grimes Times said:

Any handball over your head is a throw unless you grip the ball in your hand.

Many handpasses where almost all of the balls momentum comes from the hand holding the ball rather than from the fist are deemed legal these days.  Unfortunately it's a thin dividing line and hard to umpire.  But it might be umpirable to require any over the head handball to require the holding hand to be stationary at the moment off impact.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe that the new coaching panel has decided that the players need more speed hence some players have fined down for example ANB Hunt May and TMc so they can play a faster slicker game similar to Richmond.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, The Jackson 6 said:

Reading about the man on the mark rule change, feels that might suit Rivers running up the ground. Possibly the reason they’ve switched Hunt back as well.

You can see an example of the effect of this rule change in the video from training at 1:00 - Hunt kicking inside at an angle with May stuck static on the mark.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, The Jackson 6 said:

Reading about the man on the mark rule change, feels that might suit Rivers running up the ground. Possibly the reason they’ve switched Hunt back as well.

You'd think the move of Hunt to HBF is a direct result of this change. Won't be too many blokes that can catch him with a static start

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, DeeSpencer said:

Have you watched basketball in the last decade? Read anything about analytics?

The entire sport has changed to find the most efficient shots which are:

- 3 pointers

- Dunks and layups

- Free throws 

Apart from freakish midrange scorers like Kawhi everything is designed around efficiency. 3 > 2. 35% from 3 beats 50% from 2.

It's an interesting point - I went for a period probably in the early 2000s where I lost some touch with the NBA, after being obsessed with it through the 80s and 90s.  Over the past 5-10 years, I have found that it's a horrific version of what the game used to be like (it's not the only code I'd say that about).

The junior teams that I have coached have frustrated the hell out of me.  The obsession with becoming the next Curry means they want to spend time at training shooting 3s, yet in game time, their lay-up % on a fast break would barely be 50%, and free throws even worse (I still have nightmares about an A grade semi I coached where we were 2 points down, 2 minutes to go, we had 6 foul shots in that last 2 minutes, the opposition never had a shot in that time, and we lost by, you guessed it, 2 points.  Our key shooter took all of those shots and didn't hit one, but refused to practice them at training...).

Statistical analysis in sport is always something I find interesting, but like all stats, you can dress it up to support your beliefs, but at the same time, not tell all of a story.  For example, comparing Offensive/Defensive rebounds from last season to 20 seasons ago, there's a significant drop in offensive rebounds these days, yet there's a significant increase in shots being taken in today's game.  I could easily spin that as the offensive team not positioning themselves in a true rebounding position when a shot goes up, which is likely because of the increase in 3 point attempts made in that time (over double the attempts than what it was 20 years ago), meaning more of the offensive players are planted outside the key.  Would be an interesting topic for a different thread, but I doubt it's one that would be objective on a site like this, mainly because there's no true "right" or "wrong" answer, just how one interprets it (hence why people specialise in the area and get paid big bucks for being good at it!).  

Back to the original post, I didn't go to training yesterday. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Match Previews, Reports & Articles

    CANCEL CULTURE by Whispering Jack

    I’m not one who likes mixing politics with sport but it should be noted there have been some unusual trends in the world of sport lately. In the US, Major League Baseball announced that it’s moving the 2021 All-Star Game and the 2021 MLB Draft out of Georgia, in response to the state’s new voting law. Over here, there’s a move to force Carlton to change its club song because the original song on which it was based (written in the late 1800s) has “racist connotations”. The Blues maintain the curr

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    MOGGIES MASTERED by George on the Outer

    They say that herding cats is an impossible task but not for the Melbourne Demons who through relentless pressure, scored a commanding 25 point victory in Round 4 over Geelong at the MCG. The team that missed the AFL finals only once in the past dozen years were shown up by the new Demons of 2021 who have recorded their first 4-0 opening to the season in 21 years! Melbourne knew what was coming, and it was Geelong who were shown up for their inability to adapt to the 2021 style of foot

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    UNDER MY SKIN by The Oracle

    The story goes that there’s a certain player from Geelong who has been seen in Moorabool Street crooning the old Sinatra classic, “I’ve got you under my skin.” His name is O’Connor and he’s been tasked to achieve one thing on Sunday by his coach, Chris Scott: to get under the skin of a Demon midfielder on Sunday and thereby tag him out of the big contest at the G. The idea behind the tactic is to not only blunt one of the team’s most destructive weapons but to distract them all from producing th

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    MAX IN SPACE

    Demon skipper Max Gawn is one big unit at 208cm and lately he’s been standing even taller. We already know that he’s unstoppable in the air when going for a mark but with three consecutive victories to open the season, you might say that he has his head in the clouds.  And that is literally true thanks to a fan at Demonland.com who recently arranged for our big ruckman to go even further than the clouds but way beyond to the edge of space and into the stratosphere. And this photograph of Ma

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Special Features 25

    CAPITAL PUNISHMENT by George on the Outer

    A 34-point win in the nation’s capital has seen the Demons kill the Giants hopes early in the 2021 season. It wasn’t only the scoreboard, but a succession of injuries to major players for GWS that has put paid to their aspirations. The winning result wasn’t just due to the opposition losing players, but also to the relentless pressure from this 2021 Melbourne side that put them in the winners circle. In past years, a 16 point deficit at the first change combined with a rampant Toby Greene w

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    POWER AND THE PASSION by Whispering Jack

    The Demons ran out for their Qualifying Final match against the Fremantle Dockers at Casey Fields as the sounds of Midnight Oils’ “Power and the Passion cascaded over the mainly friendly pro-Melbourne crowd. It was a far cry from the season opener at Carrara in late January where few of their fans were in attendance in high 20’s heat and humidity and silence greeted every score from the slow-starting Demons. They ran away from the lowly Suns, won comfortably in the end and followed that with ano

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    BREAK OUT by Whispering Jack

    Despite the chaotic events occurring in Canberra over the past few weeks, one thing is for certain. This weekend’s game at Manuka Oval in the nation’s capital between the GWS Giants and Melbourne will decide which of Scott Morrison or Leon Cameron is the most under the pump at this point in time.  This time twelve months ago, the Giants were coming off a season in which they had played off in a grand final. They opened up their 2020 campaign with a resounding 32-point victory in round 1 aga

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    MARVELOUS PRESSURE by George on the Outer

    Is this a new form of Melbourne which has suddenly emerged in 2021?  In the past, whenever the pressure was applied, the team would falter early and as a consequence, it would more often than not, be forced to confront its own self-inflicted failure. But perhaps not so this year. The match at Marvel Stadium against the Saints provided an insight into how creating pressure, actually relieves it on the club, players and coach. Right from the start, Melbourne was there to make a stat

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    STUCK IN THE MIDDLE by The Oracle

    Throughout the off season, St Kilda was touted as an improver and a possible challenger for a top four position mainly off the back of another good trade and draft period at the end of last year. Then in Round 1, the undermanned Saints made a shaky start and almost succumbed to the Giants but they managed to come home from a wet and woolly Sydney with the four points intact. For Round 2, they have a couple of handy players returning so they come into the the game at Marvel Stadium choc

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    A SCRAPPY, SLOPPY SUCCESS by George on the Outer

    After what seemed like an eternity without Footy in Melbourne, the Demons and their fans produced a scrappy, sloppy yet successful return to the MCG. Yet is was against an interstate team from the furthest reaches of the country, but the 21K fans who made it through the gates, was way below expectations for numbers.  Sure it can’t have helped with all the difficulty that Ticketek imposed just to get a ticket, and since you just couldn’t walk up, perhaps the number wasn’t that surprising.

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    UNFINISHED BUSINESS by Whispering Jack

    The Melbourne Football Club has unfinished business with Fremantle after that unexpected loss in their previous clash at Cazaly’s Stadium in Cairns cost it a place in last year’s finals campaign.   Back then, the tired Demons spluttered listlessly through the humid conditions in tropical far North Queensland playing in and losing two games in the space of four days and against two lowly clubs. The end result was much more than an embarrassment for the club given what was at stake at th

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    PRACTICE PUMMELLING by George on the Outer

    Was this a practice for what lay ahead for the Demons in 2021 or was it an outcome to expect because it was used as a true practice game? Those of us on the outside will never know, but a 39 point loss to the Western Bulldogs was a pummelling in anyone’s language. We can draw some consolation from the players that Melbourne put on the field, with Toby Bedford, Jake Bowey, Kade Chandler, James Jordon and Tom Sparrow each getting a guernsey whereas they probably would not normally be in the f

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports


×
×
  • Create New...