viney has lead from the front on the field, has shown loyalty despite approaches from other clubs, speaks with pride in the club in public, supports and backs his elder and younger teammates, and is always trying to get the best out of himself

may was made co-captain of his side and walked out with a year to go on his contract, rocked up to his new club looking like he'd eaten a spare tyre, and as a 29 year old took a year to 'realise' what was required of him, after which he lead brilliantly on the field in 2020

i'd go viney for a leadership role every day of the week over may

  On 21/01/2021 at 23:49, BW511 said:

I'm with @DeeSpencer , there is definitely a lot more he could be doing (or less in some instances) and some of his decision making is bizarre. The Cotchin example is a good one, he became a leader and he's pretty highly respected for it. If he wasn't as accomplished as a leader, he'd be struggling to get a gig now.

I hate Richmond and Cotchin with a passion, I used to be really critical of Cotchin’s game. He’s come a long way in the last four to five years and is a very capable player. 

  On 24/01/2021 at 10:17, whatwhatsaywhat said:

viney has lead from the front on the field, has shown loyalty despite approaches from other clubs, speaks with pride in the club in public, supports and backs his elder and younger teammates, and is always trying to get the best out of himself

may was made co-captain of his side and walked out with a year to go on his contract, rocked up to his new club looking like he'd eaten a spare tyre, and as a 29 year old took a year to 'realise' what was required of him, after which he lead brilliantly on the field in 2020

i'd go viney for a leadership role every day of the week over may

If Viney was any good he would still be captain right now, but isnt! I beg to differ Viney is a more suited to rugby than footy and May is clearly an on field general. Viney is a footsoldier no more no less!

 

I feel sorry for any club having to decide on leadership positions and groups. All it usually amounts to these days is if you were in a leadership group and now you aren’t then your name gets flung around by the slot fillers on draft radio.

I say name a captain and VC so there’s less to get offended next year.

  On 24/01/2021 at 11:52, picket fence said:

If Viney was any good he would still be captain right now, but isnt! I beg to differ Viney is a more suited to rugby than footy and May is clearly an on field general. Viney is a footsoldier no more no less!

 

‘On-field general’ might have cut it in the 80s but there is 150+ hours a week outside a football field which influence performance more than someone shouting/instructing people on the day.  Viney lost his spot largely because Max overtook him in terms of group-influence/connection off the field. 

  On 21/01/2021 at 10:25, NeveroddoreveN said:

We wanted to change the way he played if i recall correctly, we wanted a far fitter, more mobile May who was going to get to and impact more contests....he broke down with new loads he was not used to.  He has been the person who i would say shows more leadership than our actual captain, no sleight on Gawn but May is/has been  inspirational. Should have been All Australian last year.  He is an Ex- Captain who is in career best form and he is driven to have success before his career ends.  Why would you wait to have him in leadership group, you'd only be punishing the team!

Who would you have above him in the leadership stakes?

Good summary on May. 

The fact that he turned around his poor start, for many reasons, and became AA standard, and likely chance for  AA FB in 2021 ,speaks volumes to his character.

He's 28 so lets get the best from him now as a Leadership Group member. He deserves it.

  On 24/01/2021 at 20:03, The Jackson 6 said:

‘On-field general’ might have cut it in the 80s but there is 150+ hours a week outside a football field which influence performance more than someone shouting/instructing people on the day.  Viney lost his spot largely because Max overtook him in terms of group-influence/connection off the field. 

This.

I'm also surprised how much of this thread appears to discuss on-field leadership and seems to ignore all the off-field leadership requirements, most of which we don't really appreciate because it's invisible to us. I would have thought on-field leadership, while important, makes up less than half of the "duties" of being a club leader. I'm therefore not in a position to say who the leaders ought to be but stick with my earlier statement that I prefer a single Captain, Vice-Captain and Deputy Vice-Captain to ensure there is clarity among the team as a whole as to who is in charge.

  On 21/01/2021 at 12:10, deelusions from afar said:

I'm not against Trac and May being part of the leadership team in some form - but is it really just because they were our best / most consistent players last year? 

I take your point about other captains, but in Trac and May you seem to be going for the best players in the last year aren't you? 

 

No, it's not because they are among our best or even most consistent players but because they regularly showed leadership actions that matter. There are times when a quiet word or a pat on the head at the right moment is all it takes to show leadership. It helps that both set a good example by their efforts during games.

I think we should immediately get on the phone to Tom Brady. He has got a perenial  loser into the Super Bowl. We need him desperately. 

  On 25/01/2021 at 06:16, tiers said:

No, it's not because they are among our best or even most consistent players but because they regularly showed leadership actions that matter. There are times when a quiet word or a pat on the head at the right moment is all it takes to show leadership. It helps that both set a good example by their efforts during games.

You might be right - but unless you're one of the players, how could you possibly know whether the "quiet word" from these players is any different than from anyone else.  My sense is that for a young player, it would help to hear it from someone who is seen by the football world as a start of the game - which Petracca and May are - but so is Gawn.  They're all doing it - does it make a difference if they're captain when they're doing it?

On a related note, it think this is another reason BBB will make a big difference to our forward line - having been one of the leading goal kickers in the comp for a number of years in a row.  Compare that to our previous leaders in the forward line - Melksham and McDonald who have both struggled (for various reasons) to recapture their 2018 form.

I have a suspicion Langdon is in the leadership group. Watching the Captain’s Run podcast, Brayshaw and Gawn were talking about how Langdon has taken Rosman under his tutelage and is getting more involved with other players. To which Gus said not surprising since he’s moved ...... i probably cant say that can I. To which Gawn said no.  

  On 26/01/2021 at 01:52, big_red_fire_engine said:

I have a suspicion Langdon is in the leadership group. Watching the Captain’s Run podcast, Brayshaw and Gawn were talking about how Langdon has taken Rosman under his tutelage and is getting more involved with other players. To which Gus said not surprising since he’s moved ...... i probably cant say that can I. To which Gawn said no.  

Let’s just hope he isn’t giving Fraser goal-kicking advice. 

  On 24/01/2021 at 22:58, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

This.

I'm also surprised how much of this thread appears to discuss on-field leadership and seems to ignore all the off-field leadership requirements, most of which we don't really appreciate because it's invisible to us. I would have thought on-field leadership, while important, makes up less than half of the "duties" of being a club leader. I'm therefore not in a position to say who the leaders ought to be but stick with my earlier statement that I prefer a single Captain, Vice-Captain and Deputy Vice-Captain to ensure there is clarity among the team as a whole as to who is in charge.

Clarity is not the issue that should determine who is a leader or not.

Appointed leaders are known snd some like Stephan May are born and will like in cricket give sage advice etc eithout players spitting your suggested dummy.

  On 26/01/2021 at 18:25, 58er said:

Clarity is not the issue that should determine who is a leader or not.

Appointed leaders are known snd some like Stephan May are born and will like in cricket give sage advice etc eithout players spitting your suggested dummy.

You may have misinterpreted me. The issue of clarity is about the number of voices, not who the individuals are. For example, if there are co-captains with different perspectives on the same issue, there could be confusion among the players. A single captain, giving a singular position avoids any such confusion.

I agree with you that leadership is something that some people have and other never will. However, I don't understand your reference to dummy spitting. Is it because I suggested that players not chosen by their peers to be a member of a leadership group may feel alienated?  

Also (and unrelated to your post), the captain doesn't necesarily have to be a star of the game. Nick Maxwell was an excellent captain of Collingwood but I doubt anyone ever thought he was a "star" of the game. Same with Tom Harley at Geelong and (ducks for cover) James McDonald.

There are a lot of good suggestions above as to who should be in the leadership group based on their performances last year.

This, despite the fact there was only a Captain, Vice Captain in formal roles.

On this basis, I don't see the need to "recognise" a larger leadership group as clearly the names listed above see themselves as leaders anyway (and I'm sure the feedback they receive inside the club affirms their actions).

Gawn (c) and Viney (vc) it is.

https://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/855078/gawn-to-lead-demons-in-2021

 

Edited January 29, 20214 yr by Lord Nev

The leadership group model does run in to challenges.

Someone's going to be upset they missed out. Someone might not deserve to be in. Etc. We've seen Essendon with Zach Merrett run in to that kind of trouble.

But a designated group of players to agree on standards and to raise issues with the coaches makes sense to me. 2 players isn't enough for that in a list of 44 of various ages and circumstances.

It sounds like they had a leadership group last year with Lever, Melksham and a few others. Seems odd to not just put the group out there and have it be known.

  On 29/01/2021 at 04:45, DeeSpencer said:

The leadership group model does run in to challenges.

Someone's going to be upset they missed out. Someone might not deserve to be in. Etc. We've seen Essendon with Zach Merrett run in to that kind of trouble.

But a designated group of players to agree on standards and to raise issues with the coaches makes sense to me. 2 players isn't enough for that in a list of 44 of various ages and circumstances.

It sounds like they had a leadership group last year with Lever, Melksham and a few others. Seems odd to not just put the group out there and have it be known.

I think the opposite to the bolded part, a 2 man 'official' leadership group means that everyone knows who tosses the coin and who the back up is. Essendon did themselves in by having a larger group, which meant guys missed out and probably rightly, thought they should be in there. A captain/vice captain model, means that any other senior player should think they are a leader and can speak up when they see fit, it's not forced upon them while also not discouraging. The capt/VC can still talk to them if they overstep the mark without having to bring it into a group leadership situation, and as you said the coaches really should be the ones they go to with issues. 

  On 29/01/2021 at 06:31, Red and Blue realist said:

I think the opposite to the bolded part, a 2 man 'official' leadership group means that everyone knows who tosses the coin and who the back up is. Essendon did themselves in by having a larger group, which meant guys missed out and probably rightly, thought they should be in there. A captain/vice captain model, means that any other senior player should think they are a leader and can speak up when they see fit, it's not forced upon them while also not discouraging. The capt/VC can still talk to them if they overstep the mark without having to bring it into a group leadership situation, and as you said the coaches really should be the ones they go to with issues. 

i mean if you saw what north did last year i think it was an 8 man group, they sold false hope to the VC and traded him, delisted two members - one of which had only been there 2 seasons - why was it so big and did everone who was in there deserve to be in there, i guess the answer was no. and Zerrett i rkn is still feeling let down after the 2020 season cut and probably disembarks a sinking ship at end of 21?

does make u wonder what the hell gussy was on about in the poddy tho about langdon? anyones guess now really...

Great news! ?

Whilst the club haven't announced it, there is a values committee which compromises of Melksham, Trac, Lever & Langdon. 

much more sensible to have two than every man imaginable

  On 29/01/2021 at 09:03, Dannyz said:

Whilst the club haven't announced it, there is a values committee which compromises of Melksham, Trac, Lever & Langdon. 

Will this get announced??

Climb out kid, I don't see how Viney should worm his way back into it.

  On 29/01/2021 at 09:03, Dannyz said:

Whilst the club haven't announced it, there is a values committee which compromises of Melksham, Trac, Lever & Langdon. 

Thanks for the info.

Great to see Petracca there.  Always felt he has leadership qualities beyond his playing capabilities.

Bit of a rhetorical question:  What does May have to do to get onto such a committee/leadership role: 

• 2nd in the 2020 Bluey. 
• Won the club Leadership Award in 2020. 
• Ex AFL captain who imv has proven his leadership credentials at mfc
• Been a role model in recent times and taken young players eg Weideman, Rivers under his wing.

As I mentioned in an earlier post I would have him as a VC but see the benefit of no change in Viney's position.  Having said that I have him way ahead of the 4 names you mention (even allowing for each person being in a different part of the field).

And what is a 'Values Committee?