Nathan Jones in 2021?

[YesitwasaWin4theAges 6,006]

21 minutes ago, layzie said:

Simple question really, what do we want to stand for? Do we want to be hell bent on making finals and taking the club another step forward or do we want to get a legend of the club to 300 games and honour him the way he deserves? I'm not suggesting anyone is wrong for wanting one or the other but I feel it usually comes down to one and rarely both.

I'd love nothing more than to see him get there and as many others have said if it weren't for list changes I'd say he'd have done enough for another year but at this stage I'd say he's up against it. 

Both can be done respectfully without our ambitions being affected.

He might not play a game for the rest of the season, why can't he front up again next year and do the same in a more familiar environment?

[Pates 9,537]

Unfortunately the lists may be compacted next year year and we can’t carry a bloke to 300. I’m not saying that totally rules out the possibility but when making the call it’ll be on the merit of his place in the side. 

Take out his absolutely disgusting blunder I think he played ok and that turnover definitely hurt his pride. But of course it hurt the team even more and could have been extremely costly. 

That said he played better than AvB (who I would be dropping first). 

[layzie 29,708]

1 minute ago, Win4theAges said:

Both can be done respectfully without our ambitions being affected.

He might not play a game for the rest of the season, why can't he front up again next year and do the same in a more familiar environment?

I would really hope we can find a way to do this and would love it if we can make it happen, just seems like the circumstances will make it very difficult. All comes down to the list manager and how next season will be played I guess.

[bobby1554 1,151]

1 hour ago, Queanbeyan Demon said:

• I can hear all the naysayers getting on this thread and winging and bitching about alleged form lapse, win-at-all costs, gifting games . . . . . blah, blah, blah. Absolutely pathetic. 
• I hear about club culture and how pathetic our culture is every other day on this forum.
• The man is an all time great of the club. Will not make a team of the century, but a heart and soul player in an era of absolute clustering f*&%$ing.
• And club cultures are built around players who are warriors, never take a backward step, never need to be dropped for being late to training. These are called standards. High standards make organisations great. Jones had been our standard bearer for 14 years. 
• For the next 50 years, when the Deez bring impressionable young recruits into the club, we want to be able to point a players like Jones and say . . . . "this is what it means to be a Dee". Loyal, fierce and a great human being. 
• Clubs are built on the exploits of greats who struggled to 300 games. Bourke, Newman, Moore, Breen, Scott, Bartel and of course our own David Neitz. 
• Let's not f#%& ourselves again and leave a guy who is on 290 something games, sacrificed on some misguided belief he doesn't deserve a game.  
• He deserves the games between now and 300 because it's what builds culture, loyalty, leadership and the aura of frères d'armes.
• Let's not be the club that elevates some wacky, fundamentalist, pop-phycho belief over culture and loyalty.
• Jones needs to get to 300 games, not for Nathan, but for the long term good of the MFC. 

(And finally, there are still powerful forces in Sydney that to this day regret leaving 'The Tilt', a similar style of player to Nathan, on 293 games.)

Brilliantly said. All you nuffies saying Jones should not be “gifted” games, need to print this post out and read it every time you go to bed at night. After a 100 or so times through it may penetrate your thick heads.

Edited August 30, 2020 by bobby1554

[Deespicable 2,565]

Nice post Deespicable Me and yes you can see the emotion that comes into his play - as it does most guys as they get towards the end of their careers.

He's been a gun of our club and always puts his body on the line as he did so well against the Pies two games ago.

As with many of our players, the prospect of three games in nine days (Syd/Frem/GWS) means he should miss one of them, but that shouldn't be mistaken for thinking that he isn't firmly in the equation to play a final should we make it. A final would be a fitting farewell for a club great.    

[Gawndy the Great 7,691]

Let’s get it right. We aren’t contending this year. Worst case is he is stuck on 298. Give him a one year contract extension if he wants it. He will most like miss more than he will play but can  be more of an off field leader/mentor. 

Edited August 30, 2020 by CYB

[Cranky Franky 1,544]

1 hour ago, Rusty Nails said:

He is still in the best mix (just) but at times we might need a different role player to suit the opposition match ups on the day.

He is competing for that last outside player between the arcs / pushing forward with AVB & ANB imv and to a lessor degree Harley.  Have to leave these calls up to the FD but....FCS can we at least keep him out of the back half so any turnovers aren't necessarily as damaging / costly and we give the defence a chance to amend / clean up the damage? 

 

Spot on here mate.  He just cannot play down back as he is a liability.  He effectively cost us 3 goals in the 1st half. Play him as a pressure forward & give him another year.

[Deeko2 699]

2 hours ago, Queanbeyan Demon said:

• I can hear all the naysayers getting on this thread and winging and bitching about alleged form lapse, win-at-all costs, gifting games . . . . . blah, blah, blah. Absolutely pathetic. 
• I hear about club culture and how pathetic our culture is every other day on this forum.
• The man is an all time great of the club. Will not make a team of the century, but a heart and soul player in an era of absolute clustering f*&%$ing.
• And club cultures are built around players who are warriors, never take a backward step, never need to be dropped for being late to training. These are called standards. High standards make organisations great. Jones had been our standard bearer for 14 years. 
• For the next 50 years, when the Deez bring impressionable young recruits into the club, we want to be able to point a players like Jones and say . . . . "this is what it means to be a Dee". Loyal, fierce and a great human being. 
• Clubs are built on the exploits of greats who struggled to 300 games. Bourke, Newman, Moore, Breen, Scott, Bartel and of course our own David Neitz. 
• Let's not f#%& ourselves again and leave a guy who is on 290 something games, sacrificed on some misguided belief he doesn't deserve a game.  
• He deserves the games between now and 300 because it's what builds culture, loyalty, leadership and the aura of frères d'armes.
• Let's not be the club that elevates some wacky, fundamentalist, pop-phycho belief over culture and loyalty.
• Jones needs to get to 300 games, not for Nathan, but for the long term good of the MFC. 

(And finally, there are still powerful forces in Sydney that to this day regret leaving 'The Tilt', a similar style of player to Nathan, on 293 games.)

I hope more than anyone he gets to 300, I really do but gifting someone games if there undeserving is worse for culture than getting him there. 

Right now, hes only getting a dozen touches a game, not impacting the scoreboard and adds zero speed and not a lot of defensive pressure. With that little impact he needs every possession to be immaculate. They’re not.

If he’s still playing decent footy he gets picked but if not, bad luck. It’s a ruthless business. Personally I’d rather Harmes in as on a wing I feel he has a higher ceiling and will impact the game more. 

I love Jonesy but I’d rather win with him out than loose with him in.

Lenny Hayes wasn’t given another year. Judd, Voss, Buckley, Hird never got to 300. Few do. It means bugger all in regards to how he’s remembered by dees supporters and adds nothing extra to the respect earnt from external supporters as well.

Id be disappointed if he wanted to go on and imagine he will announce his retirement intentions over the next couple weeks and he will get a send off festival as a demons great for sticking around during the dark days. 

Its a shame we won’t get to see him chaired off at the G in front of the adoring fans. He deserves this more than anything.

 

[Cheesy D. Pun 1,762]

You pick the team on merit - he wouldn't want it any other way.

I think he still sits at 18-26 on our list and I'm happy for him to keep getting a game if he's playing his role. 

Evaluating whether that's happening on TV is very difficult but they kept him out of the side earlier in the year, so I trust they aren't afraid to pull the trigger if they think he's not pulling his weight.

Edited August 30, 2020 by Cheesy D. Pun

[buck_nekkid 5,547]

Ron Barassi is a Demons legend.  You want to select him next week?

team first. If he is up to standard and deserves his spot, then select him.  Gifting games busts culture as quickly as cutting people unnecessarily.  It’s not what we do with Jones, it’s how we do it.

[John Crow Batty 8,304]

If only one more season. Some genuine real superstars here.

nny Hayes	297	SK:1999-2014 (GM:297 GL:95)
93	Wayne Campbell	297	RI:1991-2005 (GM:297 GL:172)
94	Jack Titus	294	RI:1926-1943 (GM:294 GL:970)
95	Keith Greig	294	NM:1971-1985 (GM:294 GL:48)
96	Rod Carter	293	FI:1974-1979 (GM:76 GL:0), SY:1980-1990 (GM:217 GL:1)
97	Steve Johnson	293	GE:2002-2015 (GM:253 GL:452), GW:2016-2017 (GM:40 GL:64)
98	Nathan Jones	292	ME:2006-2020 (GM:292 GL:139)
99	Matthew Boyd	292	WB:2003-2017 (GM:292 GL:86)
100	Anthony Stevens	292	KA:1989-2004 (GM:292 GL:127)
101	Darren Milburn	292	GE:1997-2011 (GM:292 GL:94)
102	Peter Everitt	291	SK:1993-2002 (GM:180 GL:300), HW:2003-2006 (GM:72 GL:67), SY:2007-2008 (GM:39 GL:17)
103	Bill Hutchison	290	ES:1942-1957 (GM:290 GL:496)
104	Dean Cox	290	WC:2001-2014 (GM:290 GL:169)
105	Barry Davis	289	ES:1961-1972 (GM:218 GL:65), NM:1973-1975 (GM:71 GL:54)
106	Barry Hall	289	SK:1996-2001 (GM:88 GL:144), SY:2002-2009 (GM:162 GL:467), WB:2010-2011 (GM:39 GL:135)
107	Stuart Maxfield	289	RI:1990-1995 (GM:89 GL:65), SY:1996-2005 (GM:200 GL:87)
108	Michael Voss	289	BB:1992-1996 (GM:79 GL:72), BL:1997-2006 (GM:210 GL:173)
109	Peter Riccardi	288	GE:1992-2006 (GM:288 GL:286)
110	Leigh Montagna	287	SK:2002-2017 (GM:287 GL:155)
111	Ryan OKeefe	286	SY:2000-2014 (GM:286 GL:261)
112	Peter Bell	286	FR:1995 (GM:2 GL:2), NM:1996-2000 (GM:123 GL:120), FR:2001-2008 (GM:161 GL:128)
113	Carl Ditterich	285	SK:1963-1972 (GM:153 GL:123), ME:1973-1975 (GM:53 GL:35), SK:1976-1978 (GM:50 GL:33), ME:1979-1980 (GM:29 GL:8)
114	Matthew Scarlett	284	GE:1998-2012 (GM:284 GL:17)
115	Jarryd Roughead	283	HW:2005-2019 (GM:283 GL:578)
116	Tony Liberatore	283	WB:1986-2002 (GM:283 GL:95)
117	Richard Osborne	283	FI:1982-1992 (GM:187 GL:411), SY:1993 (GM:16 GL:39), WB:1994-1996 (GM:51 GL:98), CW:1997-1998 (GM:29 GL:26)
118	Matthew Richardson	282	RI:1993-2009 (GM:282 GL:800)
119	Wayne Schwass	282	KA:1988-1997 (GM:184 GL:97), SY:1998-2002 (GM:98 GL:57)
120	Andrew Bews	282	GE:1982-1993 (GM:207 GL:132), BB:1994-1996 (GM:56 GL:2), BL:1997-1998 (GM:19 GL:0)
121	Shannon Hurn	281	WC:2006-2020 (GM:281 GL:50)
122	Tony Lockett	281	SK:1983-1994 (GM:183 GL:898), SY:1995-2002 (GM:98 GL:462)
123	Marc Murphy	280	CA:2006-2020 (GM:280 GL:187)
124	Andrew Mackie	280	GE:2004-2017 (GM:280 GL:100)
125	Paul Chapman	280	GE:2000-2013 (GM:251 GL:336), ES:2014-2015 (GM:29 GL:30)
126	Nathan Buckley	280	BB:1993 (GM:20 GL:21), CW:1994-2007 (GM:260 GL:263)
127	Justin Westhoff	279	PA:2007-2020 (GM:279 GL:312)
128	Alex Jesaulenko	279	CA:1967-1979 (GM:256 GL:424), SK:1980-1981 (GM:23 GL:20)
129	Chris Judd	279	WC:2002-2007 (GM:134 GL:138), CA:2008-2015 (GM:145 GL:90)
130	Matthew Knights	279	RI:1988-2002 (GM:279 GL:141)
131	Nigel Lappin	279	BB:1994-1996 (GM:61 GL:40), BL:1997-2008 (GM:218 GL:134)
132	Anthony Koutoufides	278	CA:1992-2007 (GM:278 GL:226)
133	Nigel Smart

[Swooper1987 2,800]

What's everyone's hang up with 300?  It's just a number, there have been many Melbourne players who have played far better careers than Jones with about half to two-thirds of the games he has played.  He has been a warrior but he is no more deserving of being nursed to 300 than any other player.  This should rightfully be his last season.  He risks significant reputational damage by playing a season too long - some would argue that is already happening. If at the end of the year he finishes with 297 games and 3 Bluey's, that's a career to be genuinely proud of.

[Sir Why You Little 34,856]

1 minute ago, Swooper1987 said:

What's everyone's hang up with 300?  It's just a number, there have been many Melbourne players who have played far better careers than Jones with about half to two-thirds of the games he has played.  He has been a warrior but he is no more deserving of being nursed to 300 than any other player.  This should rightfully be his last season.  He risks significant reputational damage by playing a season too long - some would argue that is already happening. If at the end of the year he finishes with 297 games and 3 Bluey's, that's a career to be genuinely proud of.

Frank Adams

6 Flags

What a Legend

[Pickett2Jackson 3,904]

4 minutes ago, america de cali said:

If only one more season. Some genuine real superstars here.

nny Hayes	297	SK:1999-2014 (GM:297 GL:95)
93	Wayne Campbell	297	RI:1991-2005 (GM:297 GL:172)
94	Jack Titus	294	RI:1926-1943 (GM:294 GL:970)
95	Keith Greig	294	NM:1971-1985 (GM:294 GL:48)
96	Rod Carter	293	FI:1974-1979 (GM:76 GL:0), SY:1980-1990 (GM:217 GL:1)
97	Steve Johnson	293	GE:2002-2015 (GM:253 GL:452), GW:2016-2017 (GM:40 GL:64)
98	Nathan Jones	292	ME:2006-2020 (GM:292 GL:139)
99	Matthew Boyd	292	WB:2003-2017 (GM:292 GL:86)
100	Anthony Stevens	292	KA:1989-2004 (GM:292 GL:127)
101	Darren Milburn	292	GE:1997-2011 (GM:292 GL:94)
102	Peter Everitt	291	SK:1993-2002 (GM:180 GL:300), HW:2003-2006 (GM:72 GL:67), SY:2007-2008 (GM:39 GL:17)
103	Bill Hutchison	290	ES:1942-1957 (GM:290 GL:496)
104	Dean Cox	290	WC:2001-2014 (GM:290 GL:169)
105	Barry Davis	289	ES:1961-1972 (GM:218 GL:65), NM:1973-1975 (GM:71 GL:54)
106	Barry Hall	289	SK:1996-2001 (GM:88 GL:144), SY:2002-2009 (GM:162 GL:467), WB:2010-2011 (GM:39 GL:135)
107	Stuart Maxfield	289	RI:1990-1995 (GM:89 GL:65), SY:1996-2005 (GM:200 GL:87)
108	Michael Voss	289	BB:1992-1996 (GM:79 GL:72), BL:1997-2006 (GM:210 GL:173)
109	Peter Riccardi	288	GE:1992-2006 (GM:288 GL:286)
110	Leigh Montagna	287	SK:2002-2017 (GM:287 GL:155)
111	Ryan OKeefe	286	SY:2000-2014 (GM:286 GL:261)
112	Peter Bell	286	FR:1995 (GM:2 GL:2), NM:1996-2000 (GM:123 GL:120), FR:2001-2008 (GM:161 GL:128)
113	Carl Ditterich	285	SK:1963-1972 (GM:153 GL:123), ME:1973-1975 (GM:53 GL:35), SK:1976-1978 (GM:50 GL:33), ME:1979-1980 (GM:29 GL:8)
114	Matthew Scarlett	284	GE:1998-2012 (GM:284 GL:17)
115	Jarryd Roughead	283	HW:2005-2019 (GM:283 GL:578)
116	Tony Liberatore	283	WB:1986-2002 (GM:283 GL:95)
117	Richard Osborne	283	FI:1982-1992 (GM:187 GL:411), SY:1993 (GM:16 GL:39), WB:1994-1996 (GM:51 GL:98), CW:1997-1998 (GM:29 GL:26)
118	Matthew Richardson	282	RI:1993-2009 (GM:282 GL:800)
119	Wayne Schwass	282	KA:1988-1997 (GM:184 GL:97), SY:1998-2002 (GM:98 GL:57)
120	Andrew Bews	282	GE:1982-1993 (GM:207 GL:132), BB:1994-1996 (GM:56 GL:2), BL:1997-1998 (GM:19 GL:0)
121	Shannon Hurn	281	WC:2006-2020 (GM:281 GL:50)
122	Tony Lockett	281	SK:1983-1994 (GM:183 GL:898), SY:1995-2002 (GM:98 GL:462)
123	Marc Murphy	280	CA:2006-2020 (GM:280 GL:187)
124	Andrew Mackie	280	GE:2004-2017 (GM:280 GL:100)
125	Paul Chapman	280	GE:2000-2013 (GM:251 GL:336), ES:2014-2015 (GM:29 GL:30)
126	Nathan Buckley	280	BB:1993 (GM:20 GL:21), CW:1994-2007 (GM:260 GL:263)
127	Justin Westhoff	279	PA:2007-2020 (GM:279 GL:312)
128	Alex Jesaulenko	279	CA:1967-1979 (GM:256 GL:424), SK:1980-1981 (GM:23 GL:20)
129	Chris Judd	279	WC:2002-2007 (GM:134 GL:138), CA:2008-2015 (GM:145 GL:90)
130	Matthew Knights	279	RI:1988-2002 (GM:279 GL:141)
131	Nigel Lappin	279	BB:1994-1996 (GM:61 GL:40), BL:1997-2008 (GM:218 GL:134)
132	Anthony Koutoufides	278	CA:1992-2007 (GM:278 GL:226)
133	Nigel Smart

 

Have a look at some of those legends who almost made it to 300.  If they weren't gifted another season  just to get to a milestone why would  Nathan Jones be

Hopefully we are a professional club now

[cantstandyasam 700]

3 hours ago, Demons11 said:

Saying he is a liability is absolutely ridiculous. The bloke made 1 mistake last night and he has been playing his role. 
 

 

Actually 2, he kicked another pass earlier for the Saints first or second goal, when he missed his target by 10n or so and they pounced. The  Melbourne player who I can't remember was in the clear.

[BW511 2,283]

I think next season will still be compromised in some sense and if nothing else, the disruption to his family wouldn’t be worth it.

I certainly would not have picked him this year, let alone next, but if the club thinks he’s adding something different to anyone else, that’s on them.

If we were a strong club depth wise, there’s no way he played this year.

 

 

Edited August 30, 2020 by BW511

[Rogue 585]

Jones' role is probably the most easily replaced on our list, and for that reason it's a struggle to think of why we'd want to keep him on the list if he's pretty clearly just a depth player.

In that circumstance, I reckon it's hard to justify keeping him on the list when you could have a young guy filling a depth role who will give similar output, but has bigger upside.

[Gorgoroth 12,352]

Sure he isn’t what he once was. Is he still better than half the list. Yup. Easily better than some on the weekend, would I rather a Wagner/AVB/Hunt etc or Jones on the list. Jones by a mile. He plays next year if he wants in my eyes, it may only be a game here or there but offers more than others younger and faster

[The Chazz 4,077]

6 hours ago, Queanbeyan Demon said:

• I can hear all the naysayers getting on this thread and winging and bitching about alleged form lapse, win-at-all costs, gifting games . . . . . blah, blah, blah. Absolutely pathetic. 
• I hear about club culture and how pathetic our culture is every other day on this forum.
• The man is an all time great of the club. Will not make a team of the century, but a heart and soul player in an era of absolute clustering f*&%$ing.
• And club cultures are built around players who are warriors, never take a backward step, never need to be dropped for being late to training. These are called standards. High standards make organisations great. Jones had been our standard bearer for 14 years. 
• For the next 50 years, when the Deez bring impressionable young recruits into the club, we want to be able to point a players like Jones and say . . . . "this is what it means to be a Dee". Loyal, fierce and a great human being. 
• Clubs are built on the exploits of greats who struggled to 300 games. Bourke, Newman, Moore, Breen, Scott, Bartel and of course our own David Neitz. 
• Let's not f#%& ourselves again and leave a guy who is on 290 something games, sacrificed on some misguided belief he doesn't deserve a game.  
• He deserves the games between now and 300 because it's what builds culture, loyalty, leadership and the aura of frères d'armes.
• Let's not be the club that elevates some wacky, fundamentalist, pop-phycho belief over culture and loyalty.
• Jones needs to get to 300 games, not for Nathan, but for the long term good of the MFC. 

(And finally, there are still powerful forces in Sydney that to this day regret leaving 'The Tilt', a similar style of player to Nathan, on 293 games.)

I could literally argue against every single one of these points (in terms of you wanting Jones to get to 300).  If I do, I will be accused of "Jones bashing", so I have zero interest in adding anything more to this thread.  Feel free to PM me if you want my response to each one of your points.

In answer to the OP & thread title - "let's keep him going"?  No thank you.

[picket fence 15,527]

4 hours ago, Pates said:

Unfortunately the lists may be compacted next year year and we can’t carry a bloke to 300. I’m not saying that totally rules out the possibility but when making the call it’ll be on the merit of his place in the side. 

Take out his absolutely disgusting blunder I think he played ok and that turnover definitely hurt his pride. But of course it hurt the team even more and could have been extremely costly. 

That said he played better than AvB (who I would be dropping first). 

He must get a game before SPARGO Surely!!!!

[titan_uranus 22,742]

4 hours ago, bobby1554 said:

Brilliantly said. All you nuffies saying Jones should not be “gifted” games, need to print this post out and read it every time you go to bed at night. After a 100 or so times through it may penetrate your thick heads.

Wow.

"Thick heads" for those of us who are unsure about whether Jones is best 22?

Horrendous position for you to take on what is an interesting but difficult subject.

FWIW, my view is that Jones was poor last night and we should be able to get better value in his role from Harmes, or even ANB. Jones isn't offering a whole lot. The OP cited a goal assist. That's one thing. All match. And regrettably, it doesn't outweigh Jones' turnovers, which happen every week.

Now, in saying all of that, I would LOVE for Jones to make it to 300. It would be a testament to his durability, persistence and hard work for him to have played through the 2006-2020 period. He captained us, he stood up for us when we needed it, he fought for us when we were down. All of those traits mean that, if it happens, it would be a wonderful moment to savour.

But suggesting, as @Queanbeyan Demon does, that we'll rip our culture apart by not letting him get there, is not a good argument. Did St Kilda's culture fall apart when Hayes didn't get to 300? Or the Dogs with Matty Boyd? Will we forever be banned from pointing to Jones' poster on the wall and using him as a role model example just because he played 290-something games rather than 300? What if we play him, miss the finals or lose a final in which he plays poorly, and then people reflect and think "remember Jones playing X game in 2020 when they didn't play Bennell/ANB/Harmes/whoever"?

I'd love it to happen, but for it to happen Jones has to be best 22. If he's not, and the FD drop him, IMO that is a completely justifiable call.

[dee-tox 4,829]

Think father time has arrived for both Jonesy and Nev. 

Thought Hibberd was another but he is showing plenty at the moment.

Unfortunately, it arrives at different times. Tuck, Rantall, Bartlett, Blakey, Burgoyne, etc. are the exceptions.

[Biffen 12,426]

4 hours ago, Swooper1987 said:

What's everyone's hang up with 300?  It's just a number, there have been many Melbourne players who have played far better careers than Jones with about half to two-thirds of the games he has played.  He has been a warrior but he is no more deserving of being nursed to 300 than any other player.  This should rightfully be his last season.  He risks significant reputational damage by playing a season too long - some would argue that is already happening. If at the end of the year he finishes with 297 games and 3 Bluey's, that's a career to be genuinely proud of.

AFL life membership is given at 300 games but I think he will get there on merit.

Edited August 30, 2020 by Biffen

[david_neitz_is_my_dad 3,946]

Some big names in that list that didnt make the 300

[ding 5,126]

Don Bradman 99.94.

Didnt hurt his legend at all

 

 

I love Nathans guts, but the end is here.