GAMEDAY: Rd 07 vs Hawthorn

[Lucifers Hero 40,361]

3 minutes ago, Rab D Nesbitt said:

There's nothing quite like good coffee to help find that sweet spot of optimism prior to the first bounce. Two down so far and I'm already quietly confident. 

What have you laced the coffee with

[3183 Dee 2,907]

2 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Not nearly as confident as any of you tbh.

Last week was our 'line in the sand' game, this week's it's the Hawks one. Would be very typical Melbourne for us to still be enjoying the bath water from last week so much that we don't get up for this one. That, plus having Clarko in the opposite box after a week of him copping it; certainly does not put me at ease.

Today tells us a lot about whether 'To Hell & Back' was filled with platitudes by paycheck collectors or genuine footballers and coaches who not only know what it takes to win, but will do what it takes to win.

 

I agree - it’s time to move forward, rather than having all these ‘line in the sand’ games. Bring the pressure and the smarts, build on last week’s effort and we should see a win.

[Rab D Nesbitt 8,492]

3 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

What have you laced the coffee with

Ha! Nothing, I promise LH. Although I'm finding it does take more and more to get the same hit these days. Once I've plateaued I find a quality dark ale helps take the edge off things. It's all about finding the right balance. 

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

3 hours ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

Win and get the four points, lose and get no points. Make no mistake. 

I suppose in this strange season, it has to be this way. What a cutthroat competition this is. Looking forward to getting back to normal.

Edited July 19, 2020 by Mazer Rackham

[buck_nekkid 6,046]

We gotta beat these muppets.

they over stack the space behind the ball if you give them time- often 5 additional players in their d50.  We gotta go fast when we get a turnover and look for space.  Wings will be critical to hold width.

hawks will look to possess with lots of uncontested marks.  Gotta make everything a contest and hard two way running.

need great delivery to fast moving forwards.  Hawks backline can’t compete on pace, only height.  Gotta have good leads and strong follow up at the contest.

i think we will win by 26 points.

[The Swimming Dee 1,904]

57 minutes ago, binman said:

Agree with both points.

A frustration for me in the first three games is that we played so far below what i know we are capable off. Were a good side. Certainly beter than Geelong in my opinion. 

As i have noted many times our key weakness is not having enough above average and elite kicks and too many poor kicks (watching the suns yesterday i have to say i was impressed with how many really good kicks they have). But that is as it is.

And Harley, Kozzie (who has the modern skill of weighting kicks to space) and even Hannan (who hit a couple of perfect kicks last week) all help improve our kicks inside 50.

As others have noted, almost as big an issue is decision making but that has much more scope for improvement, as we saw last week. Good coaching last week from goody who brought in good decision makers and got the team to slow things down (apparently our lowest percentage of play ons from marks since 2015). 

But with decision making i really believe a big part of it relates to confidence: in the game plan, each other and individually.

With the game plan, they had to adjust last year as the massive up and down the ground flooding of other sides (and our lack of fitness) that became the norm severely disrupted our preferred game plan. And this is  an even bigger factor this year with 16 minute quarters and teams not tiring meaning they can keep their flood up till the siren. We tried to to beat this through playing on at all costs, but except for the first quarter against the blues it hasn't worked.

Personally i think a combination of the two styles we have employed this year is the go. The key is knowing when to implement each style. Which is where confidence is so important.

Goody has to get them into a head space where they are not worrying about losing, which feels to me they have been for 18 months.  Which has meant they often seem to have a passive, defensive mind set married to an aggressive game plan.

In the second half of 2018 they played without fear of losing and collectively and individually played much more freely. The game has changed in a short time so they need to adjust but they can still find that same mojo - and there is still a place for their contest out, high pressure game. That style is built for finals as comprehensively shown last year by the tigers.

Goody should encourage them to go for it. Trust in each other and themselves. Take that kick to the corridor on. Be aggressive when it is called for. But smart and patient when it isn't (which is where defence can become attack).

A funny thing about this year is teams seem to scoring goals in clumps and whilst momentum has always been important in footy it feels like it is eve more important this year., perhaps as function of the scores being lower. Having two speeds and the skill and on field chemistry to implement them at the right time is really important now and that is the challenge for this coaching staff and team.

A fascinating element of the game will be the tactical battle.  A good chance for goody to silence some critics.

Won't be surprised if the hawks go against script early and attack. If so we need to be ready. If they jump us we need to stop their momentum with tempo footy. If they don't and we get on top early we need to put our foot down and put score board pressure on them. Get four goals up and they can chip, hold and flood all they like.

With their uber flood we need to make sure we risk turnovers and go for our angle kicks, take on the corridor and cross to the fat side when needed. Be patient.

I can't see Clarkson giving us so many kicks inside 50 to a free man in the corridor like the Suns did (i thought Goody out coached dew with this) but we need to keep looking for them and try to engineer them.

And i have feeling the hub environment will help all of these elements come together. As Whispering Jack notes in the first post in this thread this is very important game. And as you note josh we are a four goal better than the Hawks and we need to show that today.  

Great summary Binman. Harley, Hannan and Kossie were all very important for us last week and all three seem to be improving each week which is exciting. Very much looking forward to seeing what they can bring this week. All three are classy players

[Maldonboy38 6,406]

I both teams play near their best, we are a 3-4 goal better team. Within this context I have 2 concerns:

1. We can be flaky, and give up 4-5 goals in a row without responding.
2. Clarkson is possible the best coach I have seen. He could coach any team to a win, and is rarely beaten in game-day coaching. 

I am looking forward to Jackson and Weideman playing together, with Kozzie at their feet, and Melksham, Hannan and Fritsch being creative around them. 

[spalding 1,128]

I really worry about the inexperience of our forward line against a well coached team like the hawks.

if we can get up, it’s really encouraging for the future - given that weid, Fritch. Kozzie, Jackson, and Hannan could have at least another 5-7 years playing together.

[spalding 1,128]

You’re a genius maldonboy38!

[old55 23,687]

Massive challenge against fired up Hawks in Premiership mode.

[Deemania since 56 6,716]

4 hours ago, GCDee said:

Frosty will be the BOG for us today... Looking forward to the 5 goals coming from his direct turnovers 

A tad cynical in reference to a beloved son .... hope he plays well, but not too well. It will be interesting to watch him as an aside to a terrific Demons' win. We play well against Whoreform, quite often. 

[Deemania since 56 6,716]

9 minutes ago, spalding said:

I really worry about the inexperience of our forward line against a well coached team like the hawks.

if we can get up, it’s really encouraging for the future - given that weid, Fritch. Kozzie, Jackson, and Hannan could have at least another 5-7 years playing together.

It must be remembered that we are not so terribly weak in the forward line - what is required is rather straightforward: better links between the midfield and the movement of the whole forward line to receive, and more forwards moving to space for a Sherrin deposit from downfield. That is not chaos. That is how we can win the game - and wear out the Squawks' backline. 

I am more concerned about the snot goblins aiding and abetting the Squawks' dignity and reputation as a 'glamour' team.

 

[In Harmes Way 7,823]

As bad as we were last year, we beat them. And we have an almost full list this year to choose from, so I’m more confident than normal.

Stick it up them dees, I’ve got some annoying Hawks supporters I really want to give some stick to.

 

[old dee 23,872]

1 hour ago, binman said:

Agree with both points.

A frustration for me in the first three games is that we played so far below what i know we are capable off. Were a good side. Certainly beter than Geelong in my opinion. 

As i have noted many times our key weakness is not having enough above average and elite kicks and too many poor kicks (watching the suns yesterday i have to say i was impressed with how many really good kicks they have). But that is as it is.

And Harley, Kozzie (who has the modern skill of weighting kicks to space) and even Hannan (who hit a couple of perfect kicks last week) all help improve our kicks inside 50.

As others have noted, almost as big an issue is decision making but that has much more scope for improvement, as we saw last week. Good coaching last week from goody who brought in good decision makers and got the team to slow things down (apparently our lowest percentage of play ons from marks since 2015). 

But with decision making i really believe a big part of it relates to confidence: in the game plan, each other and individually.

With the game plan, they had to adjust last year as the massive up and down the ground flooding of other sides (and our lack of fitness) that became the norm severely disrupted our preferred game plan. And this is  an even bigger factor this year with 16 minute quarters and teams not tiring meaning they can keep their flood up till the siren. We tried to to beat this through playing on at all costs, but except for the first quarter against the blues it hasn't worked.

Personally i think a combination of the two styles we have employed this year is the go. The key is knowing when to implement each style. Which is where confidence is so important.

Goody has to get them into a head space where they are not worrying about losing, which feels to me they have been for 18 months.  Which has meant they often seem to have a passive, defensive mind set married to an aggressive game plan.

In the second half of 2018 they played without fear of losing and collectively and individually played much more freely. The game has changed in a short time so they need to adjust but they can still find that same mojo - and there is still a place for their contest out, high pressure game. That style is built for finals as comprehensively shown last year by the tigers.

Goody should encourage them to go for it. Trust in each other and themselves. Take that kick to the corridor on. Be aggressive when it is called for. But smart and patient when it isn't (which is where defence can become attack).

A funny thing about this year is teams seem to scoring goals in clumps and whilst momentum has always been important in footy it feels like it is eve more important this year., perhaps as function of the scores being lower. Having two speeds and the skill and on field chemistry to implement them at the right time is really important now and that is the challenge for this coaching staff and team.

A fascinating element of the game will be the tactical battle.  A good chance for goody to silence some critics.

Won't be surprised if the hawks go against script early and attack. If so we need to be ready. If they jump us we need to stop their momentum with tempo footy. If they don't and we get on top early we need to put our foot down and put score board pressure on them. Get four goals up and they can chip, hold and flood all they like.

With their uber flood we need to make sure we risk turnovers and go for our angle kicks, take on the corridor and cross to the fat side when needed. Be patient.

I can't see Clarkson giving us so many kicks inside 50 to a free man in the corridor like the Suns did (i thought Goody out coached dew with this) but we need to keep looking for them and try to engineer them.

And i have feeling the hub environment will help all of these elements come together. As Whispering Jack notes in the first post in this thread this is very important game. And as you note josh we are a four goal better than the Hawks and we need to show that today.  

Agree with most of that Binman except the first para. We did not best the cats so we are not better than them. The only measure that matters is winning or losing. 

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,878]

40 minutes ago, 3183 Dee said:

I agree - it’s time to move forward, rather than having all these ‘line in the sand’ games. Bring the pressure and the smarts, build on last week’s effort and we should see a win.

Agree.  Hawthorn are not a top 4 side and most probably not even a top 10 side.  To me, as one of the other posters put it, this should be a game that we just methodically work our way through and move onto next week.

The next step this side needs to take is to be able to have the maturity to get them selves up against any side, top or bottom and get on with the job of winning.  Not being overawed or over powered by the best sides and not taking the lesser sides too lightly.  Consistency is the key.  On paper and potential, we have a side that is capable of beating any team in the competition and the age profile of the list is at a point where it's put up or shut up.

If there are two sides that I think would come close to line in the sand for us, it's Richmond and Collingwood, but even then, I think we need to get to a point where beating these sides just becomes the next logical step in our progression and not a huge physoclogicaly barrier to overcome.

I actually think we have had our line in the sand game against Hawthorn back in 2017, when they were the top side that bullied the competition playing 'unsociable football' and we out ran, out played them physically that day.

Edited July 19, 2020 by Rodney (Balls) Grinter

[old dee 23,872]

5 minutes ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

Agree.  Hawthorn are not a top 4 side and most probably not even a top 10 side.  To me, as one of the other posters put it, this should be a game that we just methodically work our way through and move onto next week.

The next step this side needs to take is to be able to have the maturity to get them selves up against any side, top or bottom and get on with the job of winning.  Not being overawed or over powered by the best sides and not taking the lesser sides too lightly.  Consistency is the key.  On paper and potential, we have a side that is capable of beating any team in the competition and the age profile of the list is at a point where it's put up or shut up.

If there are two sides that I think would come close to line in the sand for us, it's Richmond and Collingwood, but even then, I think we need to get to a point where beating these sides just becomes the next logical step in our progression and not a huge physoclogicaly barrier to overcome.

I actually think we have had our line in the sand game against Hawthorn back in 2017, when they were the top side that bullied the competition playing 'unsociable football' and we out ran, out played them physically that day.

Nothing is ever " just methodical work" at the MFC. We make hard work of the easiest game. 

[dl4e 5,851]

We beat an   inexperienced GC last week. Wow.

Where are the goals going to come from ( same argument can be applied to Hawthorn ) ?

Get ready for a borefest.

Just hope we can win.

[McQueen 17,867]

The noticeable change to how we control the ball last week will evolve further this week. The composure and waiting for the best options to present will be the key to this game. If we try to charge forward and hope for the best from a largely inexperienced forward set up I fear the Hawks experienced defenders will pick us apart. 
Just let the players play on instinct and we’ll be victors.  

[Docs Demons 1,792]

2 hours ago, Clint Bizkit said:

Expect to see lots of inside 50’s only for the ball to come straight back out again.

 

Probably but then Frosty will give it straight back.

[Queanbeyan Demon 6,865]

What exactly is a 'line in the sand game'?

[Josh 1,420]

48 minutes ago, The Swimming Dee said:

Great summary Binman. Harley, Hannan and Kossie were all very important for us last week and all three seem to be improving each week which is exciting. Very much looking forward to seeing what they can bring this week. All three are classy players

Hannah was massive in last quarter last week, seems to have a knack of boning up when needed. I thought VDB was as well. Perhaps thrown on the ball for small patches to have max impact physically?

 

[Ethan Tremblay 30,966]

If both teams play at their best, it’s a 50/50 game that either team could win. 

[RedLegs23 940]

1 hour ago, Lord Nev said:

Not nearly as confident as any of you tbh.

Last week was our 'line in the sand' game, this week's it's the Hawks one. Would be very typical Melbourne for us to still be enjoying the bath water from last week so much that we don't get up for this one. That, plus having Clarko in the opposite box after a week of him copping it; certainly does not put me at ease.

Today tells us a lot about whether 'To Hell & Back' was filled with platitudes by paycheck collectors or genuine footballers and coaches who not only know what it takes to win, but will do what it takes to win.

 

Perfect Nev

[Diamond_Jim 12,627]

3 minutes ago, Queanbeyan Demon said:

What exactly is a 'line in the sand game'?

our normal weekly game until we realise the season has gone.... this normally arrives around Round 8 for the realists and Round 13 for the optimists.

[Bitter but optimistic 22,246]

5 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

our normal weekly game until we realise the season has gone.... this normally arrives around Round 8 for the realists and Round 13 for the optimists.

As you would recall Jim, for quite a few years it was round 1 !!