Jack Viney Restricted Free Agent

[Lucifers Hero 37,006]

24 minutes ago, Win4theAges said:

This will divide the Club even more if we let him walk.

Surely he can pick up a portion of Nev or Jonesy's pay packet going forward.

Nev is contracted for next year.  Jones is said to be on min contract.  And he might stay next year.

The club has additional critical signings:  Jackson and Rivers are OOC next year.  Petty is OOC this year.  They are the best of our up and coming players whom I hope we re-sign ASAP.  Fortunately Kozzie is signed until 2022.  

Not to mention attracting a player we need.

It is said the sal cap will go down significantly so the club has to be disciplined with how they spend it.

Edited September 14, 2020 by Lucifer's Hero

[Binmans PA 26,034]

5 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I think it's risky relying on the likes of Melksham (a half forward who has been in poor form or injured for 2 years), ANB (a fringe player who would be considered for delisting if he wasn't contracted), Harmes (another who has been out of form for 2 years albeit not played in his strongest position), AVB (another fringe player with suspect disposal who can barely get hands on the footy) and Brayshaw (a player who has proven to be injury prone throughout his career and is potentially one KO away from retirement - also undergone surgery to his foot which has all but finished the careers of many Melbourne players over the last decade).

If he leaves we deal with it but I hope the club isn't pushing him towards the door. As I asked above, have we even offered him a contract?

I don't rate his approach and I don't rate his intelligence. I think we have two of the best midfielders we've had in my 33 years in Oliver and Petracca, and we shouldn't be worried IMV about who runs through there with them. I also think Harmes and Brayshaw are legitimate and complimenting mids to Clarry and Trac.

I think we need to sort out defensive transition, ball use out of the middle, add an extra runner to compliment Langdon and work out what the hell we're doing with our forwardline. Having Jackson alongside Weideman will give us more mobility and having Petty fit gives us a swing man that either goes forward or goes back, enabling Tomlinson to shift up onto a wing if needed.

I think our stoppage set ups have become worse as the year has gone on. I think we need a new midfield coach to get some fresh eyes on these set ups and identify the best midfield mix.

I reckon we've offered him a contract, but he doesn't like the figure, but I can only speculate.

5 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

If we can't find a way to fit his single minded will to win and his ferocity at the contest into our team that is on us. Getting rid of a player like that for "cultural reasons" would be a damning indictment on the team and club.

I reckon we've offered him what we think is reasonable for a player of his limited abilities and are resigned to the fact that if he thinks he's better than our offer, we need to let him go.

Edited September 14, 2020 by A F

[Red and Blue realist 2,026]

37 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

If we match the offer he probably stays and there will be no picks and other trades. 

Geelong don't muck around.  They are honest brokers but they drive very hard bargains eg they got Rohan, Dalhaus and Stevens for 3rd round/ 4th round picks but didn't let Kelly ago until they got the deal they wanted which happened a year later.

Geelong will take him as an FA but probably not entertain a trade.  And they are linked to Jeremy Cameron who is also an FA so if they were going to trade for an FA it is more likely Cameron.

If the club believes they have put a fair deal to Jack they should stick to it and let the cards fall where they may.   If he stays it has to be on the clubs terms. 

I don't think Geelong has either the currency (picks/players) or coin to go after Cameron, who I think will stay, they'll be linked as they are the closet location to his home town (still a fair way away though), and the fact he likes fishing etc. We only need to say we are going to match the offer, much like Adelaide did with Danger, and then work on getting the best deal. 

Again I think Jack will stay, but just throwing up a hypothetical if he did say he wants out. 

[Gawndog98 306]

In my opinion Brayshaw and Harmes compliment Clarry and Trac perfectly. Brayshaw gets the handball receives and Harmes does the defensive work. If we can get a first round comp pick for Viney we should take that and then look to on trade it for a classy defender or forward. 

[Lord Nev 13,511]

2 minutes ago, Red and Blue realist said:

I don't think Geelong has either the currency (picks/players) or coin to go after Cameron

Cameron is a free agent.

[Red and Blue realist 2,026]

Just now, Lord Nev said:

Cameron is a free agent.

Still have to pay him, and with Danger, Hawkins, Duncan etc. they can't have a huge amount of cap - at least not to the level to pay the comps highest earner this year. I know Ablett will be gone and Selwood is on less, but I'd say (guess work) they'd be fairly close to their cap, and still have Tuohy, Stanley, Parfitt and Rohan, who are best 22 plus guys like Taylor, Narkle and Cockatoo among those out of contract. 

[Redlagged 806]

23 hours ago, Grr-owl said:

Can't understand why anyone would think we'd be improved by Jack leaving.

Exactly. He's had a good season. Not a good game on Saturday - though he lifted significantly in the final quarter, when the game was to be one. And there's the intangible - him leaving would damage the club. 

[Lord Nev 13,511]

Just now, Red and Blue realist said:

Still have to pay him, and with Danger, Hawkins, Duncan etc. they can't have a huge amount of cap - at least not to the level to pay the comps highest earner this year. I know Ablett will be gone and Selwood is on less, but I'd say (guess work) they'd be fairly close to their cap, and still have Tuohy, Stanley, Parfitt and Rohan, who are best 22 plus guys like Taylor, Narkle and Cockatoo among those out of contract. 

Reckon Taylor will retire, Hawkins should be paid well, but wouldn't think Tuohy, Narkle, Stanley, Parfitt or Rohan are on big coin. Geelong seem to find a way to fit their contracts in.

Anyway, my post was more about the point that they don't have to find trade currency.

[Grr-owl 1,075]

22 hours ago, A F said:

Greater efficiency and balance from stoppage and contest.

But that will only happen if the player who replaces him provides that. Who is that player?

[chook fowler 18,224]

RFA > SFA

[Binmans PA 26,034]

37 minutes ago, Grr-owl said:

But that will only happen if the player who replaces him provides that. Who is that player?

Not in my opinion. It will happen because removing Jack from stoppages where he regularly fights over the same ball as his team mates, fails to take the first option and tries to barrel the ball forward at whatever cost, means there will be a predictability to our ball movement from stoppage, but an unpredictability on what happens in stoppage (ie Jack won't fight over the ball and then get tackled).

The midfield needs to work far better together. Oliver and Petracca have shown they can do this. Harmes, Brayshaw and Oliver have shown they can play together as a cohesive and balanced midfield that can defend and strongly attack.

I don't think we need Jack and we don't need to replace what he brings to our midfield.

Edited September 14, 2020 by A F

[Half forward flank 1,022]

1 hour ago, A F said:

Not in my opinion. It will happen because removing Jack from stoppages where he regularly fights over the same ball as his team mates, fails to take the first option and tries to barrel the ball forward at whatever cost, means there will be a predictability to our ball movement from stoppage, but an unpredictability on what happens in stoppage (ie Jack won't fight over the ball and then get tackled).

The midfield needs to work far better together. Oliver and Petracca have shown they can do this. Harmes, Brayshaw and Oliver have shown they can play together as a cohesive and balanced midfield that can defend and strongly attack.

I don't think we need Jack and we don't need to replace what he brings to our midfield.

Agree AF.  The fact is having the midfield dynamics we have has not worked other than in stats. You want the ball in Tmac or Olivers hands in the middle, not Jacks. It is a shame that for whatever reason he has not developed much beyond being an incredidibly courageous and workman like player. I thought he was on the verge of doing that two seasons ago. 

[Gawndog98 306]

3 hours ago, A F said:

Not in my opinion. It will happen because removing Jack from stoppages where he regularly fights over the same ball as his team mates, fails to take the first option and tries to barrel the ball forward at whatever cost, means there will be a predictability to our ball movement from stoppage, but an unpredictability on what happens in stoppage (ie Jack won't fight over the ball and then get tackled).

The midfield needs to work far better together. Oliver and Petracca have shown they can do this. Harmes, Brayshaw and Oliver have shown they can play together as a cohesive and balanced midfield that can defend and strongly attack.

I don't think we need Jack and we don't need to replace what he brings to our midfield.

This is spot on. Oliver, Brayshaw, Harmes midfield in 2018 was the best cohesive balanced midfield in the last decade imo, Oliver does the dirty work getting it brayshaw whilst harmes shuts down the oppo best mid and then pushes forward off them. Add Petracca in there who can break a game a part and then give blokes like a fully fit and confident harley, jackson, kozzy a pinch hit through there to throw a different look at the opposition.

[Dr. Gonzo 22,412]

7 hours ago, A F said:

I don't rate his approach and I don't rate his intelligence. I think we have two of the best midfielders we've had in my 33 years in Oliver and Petracca, and we shouldn't be worried IMV about who runs through there with them. I also think Harmes and Brayshaw are legitimate and complimenting mids to Clarry and Trac.

I think we need to sort out defensive transition, ball use out of the middle, add an extra runner to compliment Langdon and work out what the hell we're doing with our forwardline. Having Jackson alongside Weideman will give us more mobility and having Petty fit gives us a swing man that either goes forward or goes back, enabling Tomlinson to shift up onto a wing if needed.

I think our stoppage set ups have become worse as the year has gone on. I think we need a new midfield coach to get some fresh eyes on these set ups and identify the best midfield mix.

I reckon we've offered him a contract, but he doesn't like the figure, but I can only speculate.

I reckon we've offered him what we think is reasonable for a player of his limited abilities and are resigned to the fact that if he thinks he's better than our offer, we need to let him go.

That's all fair enough and I hope you're right. Just feels like more 1 step forward 2 steps back if we lose him.

[D4Life 2,299]

7 hours ago, Redlagged said:

Exactly. He's had a good season. Not a good game on Saturday - though he lifted significantly in the final quarter, when the game was to be one. And there's the intangible - him leaving would damage the club. 

Add in lockdown with a new baby, all in all had a very solid season. Better team structure in midfield plus rotating him in forward pocket, still be great team member!

[adonski 9,143]

Forgetting Brayshaw, Harmes is faster, bigger, better defensively & a better decision maker in the contest than Jack.

Gotta take the emotion out of the name! 

[Supreme_Demon 3,009]

I think Jack Viney would stay.

He and his Father are part of the very fabric of the Melbourne Football Club. Plus I think Jack wants to get one up on his old man and win a Premiership for the Demons.

Either way, we shall wait and see.

[Grr-owl 1,075]

23 hours ago, A F said:

Not in my opinion. It will happen because removing Jack from stoppages where he regularly fights over the same ball as his team mates, fails to take the first option and tries to barrel the ball forward at whatever cost, means there will be a predictability to our ball movement from stoppage, but an unpredictability on what happens in stoppage (ie Jack won't fight over the ball and then get tackled).

The midfield needs to work far better together. Oliver and Petracca have shown they can do this. Harmes, Brayshaw and Oliver have shown they can play together as a cohesive and balanced midfield that can defend and strongly attack.

I don't think we need Jack and we don't need to replace what he brings to our midfield.

So, the strategy removes a sticking point and involves playing Brayshaw and Harmes in the middle to improve the play. Sounds good to me.

Do we think it sounds good to Goodwin? He seems to be right off Harmes. If I am not wrong, Lord Nev, who seems to have an ear to the ground, intimated that Goodwin has told Harmes he won't be getting time in the middle. Is the strategy removing one sticking point only to replace it with another, more debilitating? Robbing Peter to pay Paul goes the cliche...

[deanox 8,576]

Has anyone considered that losing the captaincy might not be a driver but in fact the other way around?

What is the reason he isn't captain is because he flagged his intention to explore FA? At MFC he has to be behind Gawn, Petracca and Oliver in salary, and May and Lever must be close. It's very hard for a captain to leave, and not a good look for the club, so if he was considering on a business/ financial basis, not being captain could be a win-win for both. 

 

 

Hey MFC, I've been approached by purge clubs RE FA next year. I don't really want to leave but the numbers they are throwing around add $100k per year for 4 years, I so need to think about it. 

No worries Jack, we don't want you to go but understand the financial offer might not be something we can match. 

At that point, both parties may manage PR together, even if there is only a 10% chance of it happening. 

[58er 5,607]

39 minutes ago, Grr-owl said:

So, the strategy removes a sticking point and involves playing Brayshaw and Harmes in the middle to improve the play. Sounds good to me.

Do we think it sounds good to Goodwin? He seems to be right off Harmes. If I am not wrong, Lord Nev, who seems to have an ear to the ground, intimated that Goodwin has told Harmes he won't be getting time in the middle. Is the strategy removing one sticking point only to replace it with another, more debilitating? Robbing Peter to pay Paul goes the cliche...

Really yo be so hard and fast that Harmes is no longer in our Midfield is crazy. You actually need about 10 players to be able to rotate.

Melkshsm was not successful iMO on Sat night in tagging Kelly. 25 possessions is too many when Jake would have got below 10!!!

Sparrow Harmes Melksham Salem and Jordan when he gets an opportunity should all be given time at different rates and situations.

Jacks worry is that if he can kick right foot more often and not try and take on the world he is playing team footy. But not if he gets caught and holds up play continuously detrimental to the team plans and we don't need that going forward.

That's  not to say we don't need Jacks maniac aggression and passion still in our engine room.

Let's see what transpires in the off season. 
 

 

 

[Binmans PA 26,034]

1 hour ago, Grr-owl said:

So, the strategy removes a sticking point and involves playing Brayshaw and Harmes in the middle to improve the play. Sounds good to me.

Do we think it sounds good to Goodwin? He seems to be right off Harmes. If I am not wrong, Lord Nev, who seems to have an ear to the ground, intimated that Goodwin has told Harmes he won't be getting time in the middle. Is the strategy removing one sticking point only to replace it with another, more debilitating? Robbing Peter to pay Paul goes the cliche...

Even if Harmes was told he wouldn't be playing in the midfield, look at that last quarter against Sydney. He was most certainly thrown into the middle. 

And I think this is apart of what needs to change about Goodwin. Being flexible on positions and players. Don't pigeon hole them. It's very ordinary coaching and leadership IMV. Clearly, he pigeon holed Fritsch as a back and Harmes as a back. Both moves were ultimate failures IMO.

I don't think we're robbing anything. If Jack goes I'd hope we're able to replace his attack on the ball and toughness around contest, otherwise we may as well pack up shop. The others will provide more consistent, clean take away from stoppage than Jack.

Edited September 15, 2020 by A F

[drdrake 3,037]

I don't understand, Goodwin's comments Jack is Red and Blue, we want him.  If that is the case with a little over 1 month before trade week starts why haven't we agreed to terms.  You always will have negotiation take place MFC offer a lower amount, Jack wants higher and somewhere in the middle is the actual amount.  Is the MFC offer to low or Jack's management think he is worth a lot more than MFC.  Or like many players/clubs in the past what is said during the season is fluff and he is already out the door.

The only other delay, has the AFL set player salary cap for 2021?

I'm hoping the last question is the reason, but really how can other clubs be approaching player management if they don't know what they have to spend.

[58er 5,607]

On 9/14/2020 at 2:20 PM, Redlagged said:

Exactly. He's had a good season. Not a good game on Saturday - though he lifted significantly in the final quarter, when the game was to be one. And there's the intangible - him leaving would damage the club. 

Agreed he like all of our players responded to the call in the last quarter one of the best we have played all year.

we were only 33 secs from keeping GWS goalless in that last stanza.

Brilliant work by all the team who showed when we have a super strong purpose and goal and are coached with passion and clear thoughts positively conveyed we can raise our level quite high.

Anything less leaves us in no mans land and results are anyone's guess. 

[Grr-owl 1,075]

1 hour ago, A F said:

Even if Harmes was told he wouldn't be playing in the midfield, look at that last quarter against Sydney. He was most certainly thrown into the middle. 

And I think this is apart of what needs to change about Goodwin. Being flexible on positions and players. Don't pigeon hole them. It's very ordinary coaching and leadership IMV. Clearly, he pigeon holed Fritsch as a back and Harmes as a back. Both moves were ultimate failures IMO.

I don't think we're robbing anything. If Jack goes I'd hope we're able to replace his attack on the ball and toughness around contest, otherwise we may as well pack up shop. The others will provide more consistent, clean take away from stoppage than Jack.

I agree totally on Goodwin persisting with moves that don't work -- I'd add Brayshaw on a wing to your list. Play them where they play best or trade them, I reckon. In that case, trading Jack would open the opportunity for Harmes to do what he does best, and if that improves the team then I'm onside.

Just one more consideration. Can you see the team being improved by keeping Jack in a role as a pressure forward? 

Edited September 15, 2020 by Grr-owl

[Lord Nev 13,511]

1 hour ago, drdrake said:

I don't understand, Goodwin's comments Jack is Red and Blue, we want him.  If that is the case with a little over 1 month before trade week starts why haven't we agreed to terms.  You always will have negotiation take place MFC offer a lower amount, Jack wants higher and somewhere in the middle is the actual amount.  Is the MFC offer to low or Jack's management think he is worth a lot more than MFC.  Or like many players/clubs in the past what is said during the season is fluff and he is already out the door.

The only other delay, has the AFL set player salary cap for 2021?

I'm hoping the last question is the reason, but really how can other clubs be approaching player management if they don't know what they have to spend.

Or maybe Jack doesn't want to stay? It's possible it's not a contract decision and he just wants to change club. (Not saying that's the case, just saying there can be more to these things than the money/terms).