Filling the hole left by Jake Lever’s injury

[Brownie 5,967]

Read in the vfl thread that Frost was still letting the ball get over his head and out the back yesterday. 

I hated those "party out the back" moments earlier this season before we tightened up.

Don't think the coaches would like it either.

I think hibbo will take on Levers role and wagner or smith will come in on form.

Jetta can go to Cox. Nev would probably beat him ?

 

[daisycutter 29,596]

could tim smith play lever's role? (assuming not injured)

then we could look at a fwd replacement for smith

[Fork 'em 6,978]

Hope Frost takes his shot.
Could be a rebounding weapon.

[The Chazz 4,077]

27 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

could tim smith play lever's role? (assuming not injured)

then we could look at a fwd replacement for smith

I wondered the same thing DC.  With Weid back, it is a potential option.  That said, I do think it will be Smith or Keilty in this week, with the former being the front runner.

The bye is going to come at a very good time for our team.  Gives Goody a chance to tinker with things this week, and if it works, then he can fine tune, and if it doesn't, then he has a fortnight to come up with something else. 

[leave it to deever 17,506]

4 weeks ago i wouldnt have fretted too much. But levers form of late was AAA.

Goody must resist  the urge to move Tmac.

We do have options in frost and smith at least. Hopefully jv will return to his best and we dominate the middle 

[Lord Neville X Flash 270]

I think Lever going down presents Goodwin with an opportunity to try something different, similar to when we had to put T-mac down forward (AKA best thing that ever happened to us). 

First Left Field Option:

Pederson at CHB. He is very good in the air, reads the ball well and contests. We have seen this at AFL and VFL level. He can't clunk them quite as well as Tmac, but he just needs get a fist in if playing down back. ALSO, he is a decent kick and makes reasonably good decisions. This means he would be more likely and able to pull the trigger on difficult but attacking kicks coming out of our backline compared to frost/smith (i.e. 45degree kick into the middle). Finally, he is an AFL vet and knows forward craft well, which could translate really nicely into shutting down key opposition players, as well as reading the play to come off his man and intercept. Tha man gives 110% despite being in and out of the side at the end of his career, he is a true servant of the club.

 

Second Left Field Option:

Weidermann as Lever replacement. I don't think weiderman is our best option, HOWEVER, it may be a worthwhile investment to developing him as a key player for future years. You could play him at CHB and let him learn by following around quality opposition players. Chances are he won't be a quality intercept player like Lever, but you never know. His skills are good though, and we know he is clean at ground level and is tall enough to go with likes of Cox. 

 

For teams like richmond with one tall i think Hunt and Wagner will be best.

[Vineytime 842]

Frost leakes goals at a rapid rate. 

Time to try someone new and hopefully unearth a gem - Smith, Keilty, Petty...

[Mickey 4,629]

Frost lacks footy IQ. 

Hopefully smith gets a call up

[Pates 9,649]

30 minutes ago, Lord Neville X Flash said:

Second Left Field Option:

Weidermann as Lever replacement. I don't think weiderman is our best option, HOWEVER, it may be a worthwhile investment to developing him as a key player for future years. You could play him at CHB and let him learn by following around quality opposition players. Chances are he won't be a quality intercept player like Lever, but you never know. His skills are good though, and we know he is clean at ground level and is tall enough to go with likes of Cox. 

I don’t mind this idea, maybe train him with the defenders in Jakes role this week and see how he looks. Tell Tommy and Jessie to not hold back as well. 

There have been plenty of examples of swinging natural forwards to defence having positive impacts on their career. The question is will doing it on a big blockbuster stage be too much for Weids  

Another thought is move OMac into Jakes role and bring Frost in as the KPD. Oscar has been taking a lot more marks this year and reads the game better than Frost. I’m not as knowledgeable about the Casey folk so there could well be better options, either way the coaching staff have been doing an excellent job over the last 6 weeks so hopefully it can continue. 

[Lord Neville X Flash 270]

7 minutes ago, Pates said:

I don’t mind this idea, maybe train him with the defenders in Jakes role this week and see how he looks. Tell Tommy and Jessie to not hold back as well. 

There have been plenty of examples of swinging natural forwards to defence having positive impacts on their career. The question is will doing it on a big blockbuster stage be too much for Weids  

Another thought is move OMac into Jakes role and bring Frost in as the KPD. Oscar has been taking a lot more marks this year and reads the game better than Frost. I’m not as knowledgeable about the Casey folk so there could well be better options, either way the coaching staff have been doing an excellent job over the last 6 weeks so hopefully it can continue. 

I agree re: queens birthday possibly being too much too soon, however, a 9 day break might be enough time. But Weid back could be a good experiment after the bye. 

O-Mac in levers position is interesting. He has been really good one on one with the gun fwds this year, and it is a risk to leave frost with that role when O is doing so well. I think Oscar is probably more of a Daniel Talia/Simon Prestigiacomo type defender; in that he is very good at stopping Key Forwards from kicking goals, but is not confident with ball in hand. BUT, maybe this could be an opportunity for him to add new elements to his game, be it rebounding from defence or playing an intercepting role. 

Edited June 4, 2018 by Lord Neville X Flash

[Deemania since 56 6,605]

10 hours ago, Red and Blue realist said:

Josh Wagner seems largely forgotten in this discussion, I see him as actually the closet like-for-like we have, no he's not as good, in particular as an interceptor, but does play as a taller/creative back. Frost I see as more of a stopper, same as Keilty and Petty, while Joel Smith is probably also similar, he also reminds me a little more like Hibberd. 

I'm guessing it could be a horse for courses type approach, if the opposition tend to use taller forwards then Frost/Keily/Petty and if they go smaller then Wagner/Smith/Hunt.  

Frost and Wagner/Hunt for mine. Wagner was quite good at the clean-up earlier, after a few games at this level. Frost for the body, height, strength, rebound with a more deliberate yet unpredictable disposal. Eyes up, Frosty. Hunt if we wanted an aggressive mid-sized runner but his endurance can lag later in the game. 

[Deemania since 56 6,605]

53 minutes ago, Lord Neville X Flash said:

I think Lever going down presents Goodwin with an opportunity to try something different, similar to when we had to put T-mac down forward (AKA best thing that ever happened to us). 

First Left Field Option:

Pederson at CHB. He is very good in the air, reads the ball well and contests. We have seen this at AFL and VFL level. He can't clunk them quite as well as Tmac, but he just needs get a fist in if playing down back. ALSO, he is a decent kick and makes reasonably good decisions. This means he would be more likely and able to pull the trigger on difficult but attacking kicks coming out of our backline compared to frost/smith (i.e. 45degree kick into the middle). Finally, he is an AFL vet and knows forward craft well, which could translate really nicely into shutting down key opposition players, as well as reading the play to come off his man and intercept. Tha man gives 110% despite being in and out of the side at the end of his career, he is a true servant of the club.

 

Second Left Field Option:

Weidermann as Lever replacement. I don't think weiderman is our best option, HOWEVER, it may be a worthwhile investment to developing him as a key player for future years. You could play him at CHB and let him learn by following around quality opposition players. Chances are he won't be a quality intercept player like Lever, but you never know. His skills are good though, and we know he is clean at ground level and is tall enough to go with likes of Cox. 

 

For teams like richmond with one tall i think Hunt and Wagner will be best.

Will Pedersen be OK to play after his concussion last w/end? I am guessing that he will not be ready to play.

[binman 42,465]

8 minutes ago, Lord Neville X Flash said:

I agree re: queens birthday possibly being too much too soon, however, a 9 day break might be enough time. But Weid back could be a good experiment after the bye. 

O-Mac in levers position is interesting. He has been really good one on one with the gun fwds this year, and it is a risk to leave frost with that role when O is doing so well. I think Oscar is probably more of a Daniel Talia/Simon Prestigiacomo type defender; in that he is very good at stopping Key Forwards from kicking goals, but is not confident with ball in hand. BUT, maybe this could be an opportunity for him to add new elements to his game, be it rebounding from defence or playing an intercepting role. 

#Oscar myths 32.

Myrh: Omac is not confident with ball in hand.

Fact: Dr cool barely wastes a kick and rarely misses targets.

[deelete my account 1,194]

33 minutes ago, Vineytime said:

Frost leakes goals at a rapid rate. 

Time to try someone new and hopefully unearth a gem - Smith, Keilty, Petty...

Re-signing Frost to the end of 2019 has backfired if he's been overtaken as depth. I like many others, had him as trade bait prior to the Lever signing and were a little confused when it was announced. I thought we had Lever in the bag all year?

 

Edited June 4, 2018 by John Demonic

[deelete my account 1,194]

2 minutes ago, binman said:

#Oscar myths 32.

Myrh: Omac is not confident with ball in hand.

Fact: Dr cool barely wastes a kick and rarely misses targets.

Some of OMAcs passes on Saturday were really confident attacking penetrative kicks. I think he looks far more confident than earlier last year.

[Lord Neville X Flash 270]

2 minutes ago, binman said:

#Oscar myths 32.

Myrh: Omac is not confident with ball in hand.

Fact: Dr cool barely wastes a kick and rarely misses targets.

True, but i think its more of him not taking risky kicks and taking the safe option, which is perfect for our team. However, if he was to play levers role, he would be obliged to take more attacking kicks. Why? Because when you take an intercept mark at CHB, not too deep in the defensive 50 you have an opportunity to rebound quickly through the middle and score, can Oscar confidently take that kick? He couldn't in previous years, maybe he can now. 

[Wunders 397]

I can't help but feel that we lost those early games because we had people like Wagner, Frost & Hunt in the team. I think we struck gold by dropping them all and going on this 6 week winning run. I'm not saying they are bad, more that they all have a weakness compared to Lever & the way we play (i.e. Playing them attenuated the way we play now - although maybe it was all T-mac coming back).

I'd personally like to see Petty (early season reports said he reads the ball really well and takes some nice intercept marks), Smith (i think he will get the game & i'm excited to see what he can do) or Weid (played down back - because i like weid but don't want him back in the forward line as its functioning atm). Even pedo to the defense would work (i could see pedo as a McGovern marking type - but poorer in quality).

In the end, if we set up well and dominate the middle then the defense won't have to do much (hence it won't matter as much who we bring in).

Go Dees!

 

[Diamond_Jim 12,502]

9 minutes ago, Deemania since 56 said:

Will Pedersen be OK to play after his concussion last w/end? I am guessing that he will not be ready to play.

I believe they have a rule that if you are rendered unconscious it is an automatic sit out for one week.

The 8 day break could come  into play but I doubt it

[Deemania since 56 6,605]

8 hours ago, Petraccattack said:

You might be right, Dom.

Isn't Keiltys main strength his intercept/aerial/marking ability?  At 194 cms/95 kgs hes a great size too.

Imagine debuting on Queens Birthday, and this one will be one of the biggest ever.  

It really is nice to have choices, as indicated strongly by Viney this week. Each of us is nominating a player or two, a role or two, with good reasons and discounting some/others for reasons that may well be vaild on the observational surface at this point. Hard decisions in reality; but the choices should go down to experience in large part - players used to the level and many of their proposed opponents. These are the players that may well have the best potential to put in a 'blinder' of a game against the Filth. No matter what we must beat the Filth - it is an expectation held for a century; it is an expectational demand since the last game, last year. If proposed nominees to fill the gaps and effectively fight the Filth's running brigade are moderately even in most regards, experience and training/play familiarity are two paramount considerations for this round. Killer WeedSmiths are all in Harms' way if Waggy Frosts are available.

 

[SFebes 4,884]

4 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

I believe they have a rule that if you are rendered unconscious it is an automatic sit out for one week.

The 8 day break could come  into play but I doubt it

Except if you’re Joel Selwood of course.....

[Diamond_Jim 12,502]

16 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

I believe they have a rule that if you are rendered unconscious it is an automatic sit out for one week.

The 8 day break could come  into play but I doubt it

Looking at the guidelines it seems that if you are rendered unconscious you are automatically out for that match. ie... no concussion test or the like

Playing the next match is a medical decision

[binman 42,465]

8 hours ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Frost is not that player. His strengths are his speed and athleticism. Not intercept marking, positioning and smarts. 

You need those three qualities to play that role and he doesn't have them. 

Keilty is the man. 

Agree Frost is not up to playing the key intercept role. Straight line player with poor foot skills. It is telling they have put Slaem back and have Fritter playing quite deep defensively now. Add Lewis and reliable kicks in OMac and Jetta and and attacking penetrating kick in Hibberd and you have a good mix.

You just can't afford poor kicks in your back half these days and it is no surprise Frost and Hunt are in the twos.

Whilst i can see the logic in not simply bringing in another tall and having Hibberd play the intercept role I think they will want to keep the structure they have now. Hibberd is such an attacking weapon you lose a lot having him deep for most of the game and not able to push hard forward and kick long into our 50. And i think OMac has to stay in the key defender role - the role he has trained for all summer.

I think they will bring in one of Smith or Keilty. Pederson is the other option, but i can't see it to be honest. 

I would not be unhappy for them to go with Dec but if i had to guess i's say they will go with Smith. He has played senior footy, pretty much in the intercept role. As a basketballer would intuitively understand the concept of zoning, running of your man and guarding an area (yes i know the space is different but the concept is similar - and some footy players never quite get it, having had no experience of it. Lynden Dunn comes to mind).

On the other hand as Drnkn167 points out at 191 cms he's not tall, something Dec has in his favour 91994 com - Lever is 195cms). But i wonder if his vertical leap and athleticism mitigates against that lack of height a bit. 

[rpfc 28,220]

The closest thing we have to replace Lever is Hibberd doing what he did last year. 

Whether we go tall or small will depend on match ups but Hibberd will be the intercept player and we will try to allow him to do that.

[monoccular 17,407]

8 hours ago, sisso said:

I remember watching Joel Smith matched up on Weideman at training doing contested work in the air and Joel was absolutely smashing him despite giving away quite a bit of size. He's a ferocious competitor, he'd be my first choice.

Can any of the Casey regular observers comment on Joel’s awareness, decision making and disposal efficiency? Especially compared with the other contenders. 

I am coming around to see him as “the one” if his disposal is as good or better than the others. 

Size wise he is almost equivalent and IIRC his leap was good, ie “plays taller than his height”. 

[dworship 3,342]

15 minutes ago, rpfc said:

The closest thing we have to replace Lever is Hibberd doing what he did last year. 

Whether we go tall or small will depend on match ups but Hibberd will be the intercept player and we will try to allow him to do that.

In part, this is why I believe Wagner will be the one to come in.