What is the Weid's role

[Diamond_Jim 12,108]

Weid has now had two games and undoubtedly he will play the next two.

Interested in hearing from the experts what is the Weid's role in a team including McDonald and Hogan.

Simply relieving in the ruck is not adequate and if it is we need to start ranking his hit out efficiency. Is he a decoy forward or a linkman perhaps?

This post is not meant to be a criticism of the Weid or for that matter a case for the inclusion of Pederson ( he would face the same problem of finding a defined role).

[SFebes 4,750]

3 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

Weid has now had two games and undoubtedly he will play the next two.

Interested in hearing from the experts what is the Weid's role in a team including McDonald and Hogan.

Simply relieving in the ruck is not adequate and if it is we need to start ranking his hit out efficiency. Is he a decoy forward or a linkman perhaps?

This post is not meant to be a criticism of the Weid or for that matter a case for the inclusion of Pederson ( he would face the same problem of finding a defined role).

Unsure what his actual role was yesterday but I thought he was poor. I'd be happy to bring in Garlett for him who adds X factor. The optimist in me wants to see him succeed but I thought he would've gained confidence from previous weeks and was on the verge of a breakout game, wasn't to be.

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,024]

I’m not an expert but....

I’d like to see the Weed play out of the square and I think we should bring Jeffy back in and play him at his feet. Then have  Hogan and TMac rotating between pushing up the ground and TMac swapping with Gawn in the ruck. I’d instruct our mids to try and hit him up on the lead rather than bomb in it to him. We know he can take a high mark but we shouldn’t be relying on it. The next weeks gives us the perfect opportunity to try this.

[Diamond_Jim 12,108]

6 minutes ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

I’m not an expert but....

I’d like to see the Weed play out of the square and I think we should bring Jeffy back in and play him at his feet. Then have  Hogan and TMac rotating between pushing up the ground and TMac swapping with Gawn in the ruck. I’d instruct our mids to try and hit him up on the lead rather than bomb in it to him. We know he can take a high mark but we shouldn’t be relying on it. The next weeks gives us the perfect opportunity to try this.

Very reasonable opinion but Tom Mac is so more powerful as a marking forward than the Weid at present. Would you be prepared to reduce Tom Mac's goal scoring?

Edited May 6, 2018 by Diamond_Jim

[jackaub 1,402]

8 minutes ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

I’m not an expert but....

I’d like to see the Weed play out of the square and I think we should bring Jeffy back in and play him at his feet. Then have  Hogan and TMac rotating between pushing up the ground and TMac swapping with Gawn in the ruck. I’d instruct our mids to try and hit him up on the lead rather than bomb in it to him. We know he can take a high mark but we shouldn’t be relying on it. The next weeks gives us the perfect opportunity to try this.

Jeffy would want to pull his finger out to even be considered in my opinion

Spargo and Fritter play like it's their last Jeffy goes missing. Enigmatic is good but you have to show up every game. This is just too hard for Jeffy to do apparently.

[whatwhat say what 20,435]

rotation forward / ruck who competes in the air and at ground level

[Diamond_Jim 12,108]

Just now, whatwhatsaywhat said:

rotation forward / ruck who competes in the air and at ground level

Is that not Tom Macs primary role?

Not disagreeing by the way but just trying to understand how we rank his success or otherwise as a role player.

He is listed as having zero hitouts for yesterday's game. Not sure how much time he spent in the ruck.

[Mazer Rackham 14,970]

Guy who gets the ball and kicks goals.

Whatever works. Buddy Franklin, in no ones mind a traditional full forward or CHF. Just a great player who gets the ball and kicks goals.

Adam Goodes, not really a ruckman, not really a KPF. Just ran around doing good things all over the ground.

In no way am I saying Weideman is anything like those players, or anywhere near their level of ability.

What I am saying is, with really good players  (the idea being that Weideman will eventually be one), the team kind of self organises to allow them to flourish.

We're doing that now with Hogan. He's not a stay at home FF. (He can do it, but it's a waste.) We're working to his strengths of mobility, strong marking, good hands, good brain.

It's now up to Weideman to show what he can do. If it's good, the forward line will self organise to accommodate.

[whatwhat say what 20,435]

10 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

Is that not Tom Macs primary role?

Not disagreeing by the way but just trying to understand how we rank his success or otherwise as a role player.

He is listed as having zero hitouts for yesterday's game. Not sure how much time he spent in the ruck.

no, t mac is more forward / wing, moving up and down the ground to provide a tall and strong-marking target

we have missed t mac big time - he straightens us up remarkably

don't think he had a single ruck contest yesterday

 

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

1 hour ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Weideman is in the unique position whereby his influence on games individually won’t be judged as harshly due to the structural flexibility we’re afforded when he plays.

At the moment it’s working a treat.

Weed provides Gawn the rest he needs which is unbelievably important. Gawn becomes a super threat up forward also when Hoges is roaming up the field and T-Mac Is playing forward.

Weed playing forward also gives us the licence to play Tom Mac in a number of positions. He becomes the ultimate swingman which is a massive headache for the oppo.

I think it changes our look completely and is suited to the way we play. We’re not blessed with super skilled players and we struggle to hit targets going forward. So having a taller forward line is much more conducive to that style of play.

 

[Thrice 216]

The way I see it is that he is that his role is highly structural. We want to play a territory game and he creates a contest every time the ball comes near him. If he doesn't take a mark he is quick at ground level and instinctively tackles to force a stoppage and reset. He rarely gets beaten. As his confidence and strength grows he will clunk a few more marks, he has decent timing in the air.

His chop out ruck work is serviceable, which frees up Tommy to roam the wings when going through the midfield. 

I have a feeling the coaches would be quite pleased with how he is going. 

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,024]

16 minutes ago, jackaub said:

Jeffy would want to pull his finger out to even be considered in my opinion

Spargo and Fritter play like it's their last Jeffy goes missing. Enigmatic is good but you have to show up every game. This is just too hard for Jeffy to do apparently.

When Jeffy is on he’s on and yes we are all aware of his down time. But we need to remember at some stage Spargo/Fritsch will need to be managed as not to burn them out.

[whatwhat say what 20,435]

what steve and thrice both just said puts in so many words what i agree with - forward / ruck relief who competes in the air and at ground level - and most importantly as said by both it's what he allows us to do structurally that makes him so important

his competitive efforts at ground level are excellent

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,024]

43 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

Very reasonable opinion but Tom Mac is so more powerful as a marking forward than the Weid at present. Would you be prepared to reduce Tom Mac's goal scoring?

Yes we could swap Weed for TMac but not for Hogan. I like what Hogan brings to the team but I don’t see him as the deepest forward, Hogan doesn’t take the big pack marks and his goal kicking lets him down at times. Using him in his current role is far more damaging. Getting to my original point by playing Weed as the deepest forward for the next two games (against weaker opposition) removes any confusion (at times 2 forwards going for the same mark) and let’s him focus solely on one role. He should be told regardless of goals/marks etc that is his role for rounds 8 & 9.

Edited May 7, 2018 by Bombay Airconditioning

[Demonland 66,978]

I imagine his role will be to clunk marks and kick goals deep in the forward line like the one he took in the 3rd yesterday. I think the coaches are going down the OMac 2017 route with him and just playing him. No doubt he'll play the next 2 matches and this is a perfect opportunity for him to show his wares.

[Damo 3,042]

I think Garlett has been unlucky in getting wet slippery games. He failed. If under a roof, Id say that Jeffy is probably more conducive to a positive outcome than Weid. Saying that, all players should be ok in any conditions. Does jeffy have a better upside, yep. But is his halcyon days sunsetting? unfortunately, yep.

 

[Diamond_Jim 12,108]

17 minutes ago, Thrice said:

The way I see it is that he is that his role is highly structural. We want to play a territory game and he creates a contest every time the ball comes near him. If he doesn't take a mark he is quick at ground level and instinctively tackles to force a stoppage and reset. He rarely gets beaten. As his confidence and strength grows he will clunk a few more marks, he has decent timing in the air.

His chop out ruck work is serviceable, which frees up Tommy to roam the wings when going through the midfield. 

I have a feeling the coaches would be quite pleased with how he is going. 

That is high praise... not sure that I agree he is at that level yet and I certainly don't think he achieved that ability at VFL level.

Interesting that no one has mentioned his reluctance/inability to run repeated leads.

[pewpewpew 686]

I'd keep playing the kid. He can take a mark. His time will come.

[DeleteUser 638]

4 minutes ago, pewpewpew said:

I'd keep playing the kid. He can take a mark. His time will come.

I thought he was good - and I agree - give him some confidence that the club backs him. I don't think he deserves to be dropped yet and has a role to play. Unless (note I said unless, not until) he has a run of offs (or there's simply no space due to the opposition that week), back him in.

Couple of goals, some marks, good disposal...

[DaveyDee 421]

1 hour ago, Diamond_Jim said:

Weid has now had two games and undoubtedly he will play the next two.

Interested in hearing from the experts what is the Weid's role in a team including McDonald and Hogan.

Simply relieving in the ruck is not adequate and if it is we need to start ranking his hit out efficiency. Is he a decoy forward or a linkman perhaps?

This post is not meant to be a criticism of the Weid or for that matter a case for the inclusion of Pederson ( he would face the same problem of finding a defined role).

Development - big boys always take longer at the top level of football. 

You can’t get 50-60 games of experience without actually playing them. 

[pewpewpew 686]

3 minutes ago, timbo said:

I thought he was good - and I agree - give him some confidence that the club backs him. I don't think he deserves to be dropped yet and has a role to play. Unless (note I said unless, not until) he has a run of offs (or there's simply no space due to the opposition that week), back him in.

Couple of goals, some marks, good disposal...

I'd at least give him the next 2 weeks and then he has to start earning his space. I think he has a future and the coaches are preparing him and the team structure for that. These things sometimes take time. Omac was not built in a day.

[Gator 16,921]

1 hour ago, Diamond_Jim said:

Weid has now had two games and undoubtedly he will play the next two.

Interested in hearing from the experts what is the Weid's role in a team including McDonald and Hogan.

Simply relieving in the ruck is not adequate and if it is we need to start ranking his hit out efficiency. Is he a decoy forward or a linkman perhaps?

This post is not meant to be a criticism of the Weid or for that matter a case for the inclusion of Pederson ( he would face the same problem of finding a defined role).

Weideman has now played 3 games and will be starting to feel more comfortable at the level.

As Steve said, he's invaluable for Gawn and means McDonald doesn't have to ruck much.

Oscar McDonald has improved immeasurably because they kept the faith and kept playing him.  It's the same for Weideman.  He's shown glimpses of what he'll become, which is a contested marking key forward, who can provide ruck relief.

He's still only 20.

[Gorgoroth 12,447]

2 hours ago, whatwhatsaywhat said:

rotation forward / ruck who competes in the air and at ground level

Also allows Tmac to not ruck. Which to me is a big bonus. Also allows Hogan to play more up the ground.

[binman 39,625]

1 hour ago, ProDee said:

Weideman has now played 3 games and will be starting to feel more comfortable at the level.

As Steve said, he's invaluable for Gawn and means McDonald doesn't have to ruck much.

Oscar McDonald has improved immeasurably because they kept the faith and kept playing him.  It's the same for Weideman.  He's shown glimpses of what he'll become, which is a contested marking key forward, who can provide ruck relief.

He's still only 20.

Goody's comments in the post match presser about weed were instructive. He refrenced omac and emphasised that tall key poistion players always take time as they need to get bigger and stronger.

Agree with the comments about his importance structurally and the idea of giving him a good block of games to develop. He looks as if he has got taller and will be a beast in 3 years time.

I think the reaction from team mates to his great mark and goal suggest what his role is/will be.

[Lucifers Hero 37,524]

On Weideman's role - Goodwin in his press conf re three talls:  “We wanted to really trial that ... having all those guys function together is really important for us,” Goodwin said...“Jesse can play not only as a tall, but a small and Tom is similar in his ability to move around the ground."

So Weideman is being played as forward and ruck relief while Jesse and Tom rotate from forward to wing to wherever.  That should keep defenders guessing!

 

Roos gave Weideman some high praise yesterday.  Said he plays in the same mould as Ben Brown - very good at leaping for the mark, taking it at its highest point.  Doesn't get much better than that.  Weideman playing like Ben Brown in a few years would be something to relish.  Also, said Sam gets the benefit of getting the 3rd tall, if there is one, which helps his development.