Is there a disconnect between supporters and the current crop of players.

[DaveyDee 421]

Genuine question. Reading this place and other forms of social media in the last few days draws me to ask this question.

Is there a disconnect between supporters and the current crop of players.

Can this community lead the way to build the bridges so we are all heading in the same direction?

[At Least I Saw a Flag 5,246]

Well, there is one difference. The supporters care about winning ... 

[Dee Zephyr 19,267]

7 minutes ago, bingers said:

Well, there is one difference. The supporters care about winning ... 

Lol, straight off the bat!!

[biggestred 5,088]

We also know the team never shows up when expected to win

Players should be aware of this and guard against it instead of being stupidly complacent

[JV7 2,351]

One positive out of yesterday was those players had to sit through a game (Adelaide & West Coast) and know how us supporters feel week in week out watching them, when a side frustrates you and can't get the job done and there is ABSOLUTELY nothing you can do about it and there's no influence you can have on the result and then they have to carry the burden over the next few days just like us supporters feel whenever they put in those performances! Hopefully they know how we feel week in, week out

Edited August 28, 2017 by JV7

[Emerald 1,744]

Yes, most supporters work hard for a fraction of what the players get for rolling over.

[Coq au vin 755]

11 minutes ago, Emerald said:

Yes, most supporters work hard for a fraction of what the players get for rolling over.

I don't think that's true. Most players only play for a few years and then go back to low paying jobs. Most players do not earn the big bucks. It's only a few top players and then for a limited time. 

Compare soccer players in Europe, football players in the US. They earn astronomical figures. 

Our players wear no protection, and often deal with long term arthritis, brain injuries, etc in later life.

Also there are many Melbourne supporters who are doctors, lawyers, CEOs who earn big salaries for 30-40 years.

[Biffen 12,943]

15 minutes ago, Diamond said:

I don't think that's true. Most players only play for a few years and then go back to low paying jobs. Most players do not earn the big bucks. It's only a few top players and then for a limited time. 

Compare soccer players in Europe, football players in the US. They earn astronomical figures. 

Our players wear no protection, and often deal with long term arthritis, brain injuries, etc in later life.

Also there are many Melbourne supporters who are doctors, lawyers, CEOs who earn big salaries for 30-40 years.

Money isn't the issue.

Remember also that people pay to support the club- many who are far from wealthy,despite the stereotype of blue blood Demons.

We don't put guns to the players heads but we expect pride to be displayed in big games and crap little games against teams perceived as "weaker" also.

 

[RalphiusMaximus 6,053]

I go back to something that I think Mark Neeld said.  There are too many players on our list who are happy just to be playing AFL.  They aren't willing to do the extra work to play finals because their personal goal has already been met. 

[hardtack 10,537]

22 minutes ago, Biffen said:

Money isn't the issue.

Remember also that people pay to support the club- many who are far from wealthy,despite the stereotype of blue blood Demons.

We don't put guns to the players heads but we expect pride to be displayed in big games and crap little games against teams perceived as "weaker" also.

 

That membership cost argument doesn't really cut it for me. I am one who, if that argument rang true, probably shouldn't be paying mine and my son's memberships, having not worked since being made redundant a couple of years ago.  However, the reality is that those two memberships amount to nothing more than a couple of coffees a week at my favourite cafe; so for me it's not too difficult a decision to continue supporting the club financially.

[Biffen 12,943]

Just now, hardtack said:

That membership cost argument doesn't really cut it for me. I am one who, if that argument rang true, probably shouldn't be paying mine and my son's memberships, having not worked since being made redundant a couple of years ago.  However, the reality is that those two memberships amount to nothing more than a couple of coffees a week at my favourite cafe; so for me it's not too difficult a decision to continue supporting the club financially.

My point was in relation to the false argument that players only make money for a short time and our supporters are wealthier than the players.

[layzie 33,805]

1 hour ago, Diamond said:

I don't think that's true. Most players only play for a few years and then go back to low paying jobs. Most players do not earn the big bucks. It's only a few top players and then for a limited time. 

Compare soccer players in Europe, football players in the US. They earn astronomical figures. 

Our players wear no protection, and often deal with long term arthritis, brain injuries, etc in later life.

Also there are many Melbourne supporters who are doctors, lawyers, CEOs who earn big salaries for 30-40 years.

 See what you're saying but that blanket statement at the end there doesn't ring true for myself or a lot of Melbourne fans.

Being an AFL player opens doors people could only dream of. Even if your career is short live the contacts and opportunities that come out of it can take you places.

[deebug 1,754]

You would be shocked to know all my demon friends have been hard working class people who just have enough to scrape by and not one of them ever owed a range rover in their lives; or gone too the snow because like me they have been to ever Melbourne game the almost twenty years +.

[Jaded No More 68,915]

47 minutes ago, RalphiusMaximus said:

I go back to something that I think Mark Neeld said.  There are too many players on our list who are happy just to be playing AFL.  They aren't willing to do the extra work to play finals because their personal goal has already been met. 

You know it's been a traumatic weekend when Mark Neeld's words of wisdom make a comeback

[praha 11,240]

This i think is part of why ignoring past records entirely can be dangerous. Ignoring the fact the club hasnt beaten North for a decade is fine for the players but the CLUB and fans have had to put up with being bullied by North. Saying the record doesn't matter is a little insulting to fans who have to put up with it. It's the same with finals. Why wouldn't you use not playing finals for a decade as motivation? I think Goodwin has learned some hard lessons this year and a lot of it has to do with understanding what the club has gone through and why fans react the way they do. When you say "losing streaks" or whatever are irrelevant, what you're saying is that the playing group is separate from what the club more broadly stands for. The playing group regardless of whether they have been there for 1 year or 2 years has to take on the baggage of 17 straight losses to North, or 11 years without finals, or 50+ years without a flag. If breaking those droughts aren't used as extra incentive, it's not wonder the team put up the performance it did on Saturday. We went from one extreme with Neeld and Schwab and obsessing over the past, to Roos and Goodwin trying to not just forget but completely ignore the bad. The team will never move forward until it acknowledges the fact it's been embarrassing for a decade. I found Goodwin's messaging about the North drought to be a massive disconnect between coach and support base, and I have to assume it's the same between playing group and fans. If I found out that the club's finals drought wasn't mentioned in the leadup, it would make me feel like my wait and pain has been pointless. Simply saying "we need to win to make finals" isn't enough. Are you going to really take it on and guide this team to its first finals in a decade?

There is undoubtedly a disconnect between club and fan in this regard. Goodwin and co really need to take these droughts by the balls, and acknowledge and understand why they hurt the support base so much. Don't tell me the record against North is irrelevant. It is [censored] relevant because it's a god damn competition, and an opponent has bullied the club and its fans for a decade. [censored] own up to it. 

To me that is the biggest gauge of measuring any potential disconnect.

Edited August 28, 2017 by praha

[The heart beats true 18,123]

No more or less than any other club.

Hawthorn talk about being the 'family' club but Jordan Lewis jokes about owing Hodgey and Roughy bottles of Grange, and they always talk about wine and expensive food. I don't think it matters if you win.

If the players do what is expected I prefer to be disconnected from them. I'm a 39 year old man for god's sake. Do I wanna grab a burger with Clayton Oliver? I wouldn't wish that on either of us. The only thing that connects us is the history of the footy club, and I like it that way.

[DaveyDee 421]

2 hours ago, The heart beats true said:

No more or less than any other club.

 

I agree with you, but perception is often more important than reality.

There are no right or wrong answers, if some supporters believe our players do not care about winning that is a disconnect, (personally I don't share that view) , but the club needs to know and address that some supporters hold that belief before we can all move forward together.

 

[puntkick 325]

I think we've only got a couple left who've been playing since 1964 !

[The heart beats true 18,123]

7 hours ago, DaveyDee said:

I agree with you, but perception is often more important than reality.

There are no right or wrong answers, if some supporters believe our players do not care about winning that is a disconnect, (personally I don't share that view) , but the club needs to know and address that some supporters hold that belief before we can all move forward together.

 

But this is the thing - we don't move forward together. They call us 'members' as it's more engaging than saying sponsors (which is reserved for businesses), but ultimately all we are is small scale sponsors.

I can't do the preseason work. I can't encourage the players to play with more skill, or discipline, or composure.

They have to do it, and I have to decide if it's worthy of my contribution. Sadly I'm not that discerning. I can't help but contribute, and the logic of not contributing to the club now (as opposed to any other stage in the last 12 years) seems flawed.

And on the concept of the club addressing anything at the moment I actually hope they don't. I don't judge them by their words. No one should. I'm tired of the PR spin. We've moved beyond that.

[praha 11,240]

12 minutes ago, The heart beats true said:

But this is the thing - we don't move forward together. They call us 'members' as it's more engaging than saying sponsors (which is reserved for businesses), but ultimately all we are is small scale sponsors.

I can't do the preseason work. I can't encourage the players to play with more skill, or discipline, or composure.

They have to do it, and I have to decide if it's worthy of my contribution. Sadly I'm not that discerning. I can't help but contribute, and the logic of not contributing to the club now (as opposed to any other stage in the last 12 years) seems flawed.

And on the concept of the club addressing anything at the moment I actually hope they don't. I don't judge them by their words. No one should. I'm tired of the PR spin. We've moved beyond that.

Members are important stakeholders though because they have a bearing on brand value. The more people directly engaged with the club, the better. So we're actually part and parcel of the business and its sponsors because we're a reflection of brand loyalty and support. Paid members are considered to have high purchase intent, which helps the club grow and attract additional financial sponsorship. There is a disconnect though and I agree that we're treated more like fodder for the coffers. Goodwin's dismissive nature of past record I think is indicative of this, and PJ does it to a degree when talking about building membership numbers to attract sponsors. It worked at Essendon because the  members had something to be proud of during his tenure (even if they weren't winning finals). We've grown in numbers and have gone to games in record numbers, only to see our team fail to lay a tackle in the first 10 minutes of the most important game of the past decade. You couldn't find a bigger disconnect between playing group, club and support base than that.

The PR approach is a damned if you do damned if you don't scenario. The club had to respond publicly. For any other club this would be a wake up call but history shows we'll likely see more of the same. I wouldn't be surprised if we take a step back next year and revert back to 2011. That's the cynic in me that thinks the loser stink lingering aroung the clubrooms will remain.

[What 18,810]

The players are there to perform and to win, and to bring us joy.

I do not care about them personally, and could care less about the kind of people they are. If I see a Melbourne player walking down the street, I could not care less.  I dont care who you are or if you're a top bloke or if you volunteer outside of footy .

I would be happy with a team of psychopaths and murderers if they won games and we played finals every season.

[Little Richard 6,262]

14 hours ago, RalphiusMaximus said:

I go back to something that I think Mark Neeld said.  There are too many players on our list who are happy just to be playing AFL.  They aren't willing to do the extra work to play finals because their personal goal has already been met. 

I wouldn't have said this at the start of the season, but it definitely rings true for some of them now. Seems as though they were happy enough playing some good footy, getting up to 5th on the ladder and receiving some plaudits in the media. I still think a big part of it is experience and they'll learn that they can't ever switch off like they have.

Sustained effort will come, but we need to make sure the people who are being brought into the club, whether they be players or staff, hold that effort and desire to win above everything else. If they do this, the mental weakness should be gradually stamped out. We've come a long way, but we have a long way to go.

[Sir Why You Little 37,038]

2 hours ago, praha said:

 We've grown in numbers and have gone to games in record numbers, only to see our team fail to lay a tackle in the first 10 minutes of the most important game of the past decade. You couldn't find a bigger disconnect between playing group, club and support base than that.

 

You just nailed it all in the one Paragraph mate

I want a REAL Answer...

Why did the First 11 minutes happen?

(Why were our First Quarters garbage most of the year??)

[Satyriconhome 10,878]

1 hour ago, Sir Why You Little said:

You just nailed it all in the one Paragraph mate

I want a REAL Answer...

Why did the First 11 minutes happen?

(Why were our First Quarters garbage most of the year??)

A real answer      if the players or coaches knew the answer, the 1st quarter wouldn't have happened

Nerves, choking, expecting another team mate to lift, all of the above

This topic is, in my humble opinion, a joke, there is no disconnect, the players failed on this occasion Why? Who the [censored] knows

[Sir Why You Little 37,038]

3 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

A real answer      if the players or coaches knew the answer, the 1st quarter wouldn't have happened

Nerves, choking, expecting another team mate to lift, all of the above

This topic is, in my humble opinion, a joke, there is no disconnect, the players failed on this occasion Why? Who the [censored] knows

You just accept

you wouldn't bother to find out because you won't rock the boat on your social outing

Same as when Neeld was in charge, You Satyr just accepted whoever was in charge and took them at their word. 

There are Answers to Saturday's debacle and it is paramount they are all exposed and purged from the club once and for all.