Depth issues

[beelzebub 23,383]

26 minutes ago, Elegt said:

we will never win a flag with the current standard of depth...

I concur.

Of the starting 22 any given week maybe 15 / 16 are genuine starters with the rest having earnt the opportunity. There maybe about a dozen beyond that core 16 who youd rightly suggest a bone fide afl level...just some better than others at various times. That and injury affords some a game or two or three. The rest are either noobs or development projects and some simply tried/ failed or past it.

I dont see a great degree of real depth. 

Thats my opinion.

[Sir Why You Little 37,216]

I want to know why The Club goes to sleep for 10-20 minute periods regularly in games. 

Todays game was an exact copy of many senior games. 

[Elegt 872]

20 hours ago, beelzebub said:

I concur.

Of the starting 22 any given week maybe 15 / 16 are genuine starters with the rest having earnt the opportunity. There maybe about a dozen beyond that core 16 who youd rightly suggest a bone fide afl level...just some better than others at various times. That and injury affords some a game or two or three. The rest are either noobs or development projects and some simply tried/ failed or past it.

I dont see a great degree of real depth. 

Thats my opinion.

mfc needs to trade hard.. the fans on here are delusional if they think our list is quality, still a long way to go

[Dockett 32 1,239]

On 30/06/2017 at 11:43 PM, nedariks said:

As others have said, missing 5 of our best 10 players including our 3 best forwards, can't cover that. 

Had most of them playing against Collingwood ( ex Viney ) . Our issue isn't depth.

[Pennant St Dee 13,306]

9 minutes ago, Dockett 32 said:

Had most of them playing against Collingwood ( ex Viney ) . Our issue isn't depth.

Shhh! Dockett they don't want to hear logic.

I was depth the handwringers have spoken, case closed

[deespicable me 1,498]

I thought against Collingwood they killed us at stoppages and contested ball. I agree there is a case to suggest that is all about preparation and mind-set and nothing to do with us missing Viney but I still think we have very limited depth around the ball. Our depth players are Stretch, Kennedy, JKH, Bugg and Magner. That is with players like ANB, Harmes, Vince, Salem, Petracca and Lewis running through there, and most of those players aren't yet that good or are nearly past it.

I think the club has got too many half-back flank, almost KPF defenders on the list.

Tom McDonald

Oscar McDonald

Frost, Keilty, Smith and Garland as back up (3rd tall options)

Then Hunt, Hibberd , Jetta and Salem as the smalls with

Lewis, Vince, Brayshaw as back-up (or out there).

I know Lever is good and it would be great to get him on the list but I think our list will be weak in mid to forward areas as a result.

[buck_nekkid 6,047]

Adding two teams to the comp and giving oodles of priority of talent selection means that the 'depth' for everyone else- including us- was diminished.  GWS have no problems with depth.

The Swans had 10 players on the park yesterday that came from their rookie list.  FMD!

Depth relies on selecting talent, developing it, and getting rid of those who don't fit the bill.  We need 'depth', but first we need a core list that pushes the squad to either do what Is required or be 'depth'.  I don't think we have a core 25 yet.  I reckon we are about 70% of the way there in terms of 'talent', and about 60% in terms of development (including the leadership, resilience and mental stuff).  I think I would have rated us 40%/40% before Roos.

we are on the way, but we will have 'depth' only when these parameters are improved again for 2018.  I agree that being ruthless in holding everyone accountable for their actions is part of it.

[Skin Deeamond 339]

13 minutes ago, deespicable me said:

I thought against Collingwood they killed us at stoppages and contested ball. I agree there is a case to suggest that is all about preparation and mind-set and nothing to do with us missing Viney but I still think we have very limited depth around the ball. Our depth players are Stretch, Kennedy, JKH, Bugg and Magner. That is with players like ANB, Harmes, Vince, Salem, Petracca and Lewis running through there, and most of those players aren't yet that good or are nearly past it.

I think the club has got too many half-back flank, almost KPF defenders on the list.

Tom McDonald

Oscar McDonald

Frost, Keilty, Smith and Garland as back up (3rd tall options)

Then Hunt, Hibberd , Jetta and Salem as the smalls with

Lewis, Vince, Brayshaw as back-up (or out there).

I know Lever is good and it would be great to get him on the list but I think our list will be weak in mid to forward areas as a result.

Magner was delisted four years ago.

[rjay 25,167]

1 hour ago, Dockett 32 said:

Had most of them playing against Collingwood ( ex Viney ) . Our issue isn't depth.

Agree 'Dockett', our issue is quality.

Still too many depth players in the starting 22.

We've got a really good foundation and when those kids get more experience and we add a bit more quality then we will be a quality team.

I can't understand why people seem so concerned with the Kennedys & Wagners of this world.

[TeamPlayedFine39 8,511]

Our major issues this year were immaturity and poor form when it mattered.

Have a look at the grand final day line-up of every premiership team of the last 20 years and you will see there are some very average footballers in every one of them. 

I'm not saying we have a premiership list yet, and I'm also not saying our depth is amazing; but there is more to winning a premiership than the quality of individual players.

While not perfect, our terrible list beat Adelaide at home, West Coast at home, Essendon at home and Port Adelaide at the G.  That's four of the top 8, including the premiership favourites.

Yes we need to always be looking to improve our list, but which team doesn't? GWS and the Crows have holes to fill and 'role players' getting consistent matches.  Improving depth is what keeps the list managers and recruiting departments employed in every club in the league - not just the MFC.

[Macca 17,063]

23 minutes ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

Our major issues this year were immaturity and poor form when it mattered.

Have a look at the grand final day line-up of every premiership team of the last 20 years and you will see there are some very average footballers in every one of them. 

I'm not saying we have a premiership list yet, and I'm also not saying our depth is amazing; but there is more to winning a premiership than the quality of individual players.

While not perfect, our terrible list beat Adelaide at home, West Coast at home, Essendon at home and Port Adelaide at the G.  That's four of the top 8, including the premiership favourites.

Yes we need to always be looking to improve our list, but which team doesn't? GWS and the Crows have holes to fill and 'role players' getting consistent matches.  Improving depth is what keeps the list managers and recruiting departments employed in every club in the league - not just the MFC.

You make some very good points TPF but in order to have better outcomes we need to recruit better than the rest.  More so at the top end of the list.  We can't ever be happy to be just a player in the game.

We need more game-breakers and difference-makers as well as having decent depth down to about the 30th player best player on the list.

In my time supporting the club we've never been the best at recruitment.  I could name any number of clubs that have been though ... starting with the Tigers of the late 60's through to the Hawks of late.

Our FD needs to have an attitude of never being satisfied with the list, at any time.  Despite the competition from 17 other clubs, it's still quite possible to build a great list.  Previously, we've been in a constant rebuilding phase after constantly bottoming out.  Hopefully, those days are behind us.

We're on the right path but we've still got a ways to go.

[TeamPlayedFine39 8,511]

46 minutes ago, Macca said:

You make some very good points TPF but in order to have better outcomes we need to recruit better than the rest.  More so at the top end of the list.  We can't ever be happy to be just a player in the game.

We need more game-breakers and difference-makers as well as having decent depth down to about the 30th player best player on the list.

In my time supporting the club we've never been the best at recruitment.  I could name any number of clubs that have been though ... starting with the Tigers of the late 60's through to the Hawks of late.

Our FD needs to have an attitude of never being satisfied with the list, at any time.  Despite the competition from 17 other clubs, it's still quite possible to build a great list.  Previously, we've been in a constant rebuilding phase after constantly bottoming out.  Hopefully, those days are behind us.

We're on the right path but we've still got a ways to go.

Exactly right.

My post is directed to those who believe that everyone outside of the best 22 should be cast away.

[Macca 17,063]

Just now, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

Exactly right.

My post is directed to those who believe that everyone outside of the best 22 should be cast away.

We're at a stage with our list where us supporters will find a reason to keep certain players on the list ... or, another way to look at it is why we would justify keeping certain players.  I'm in the latter group but I'm also not advocating mass changes.

Mine is more of a 2 year changeover ... in other words, which of our current players will be required and productive from 2019 onwards.  In our sport, list management works that far ahead.

I thought Roos was particularly important with regards to all that and it was my wish that we were to somehow be able to keep him on in some sort of consultancy role. 

 

[old dee 23,880]

We just signed Stretch up for two more years. He is  is a good vfl player. Has IMO no skill that hurts the opposition. Waste of a spot in our 40 team roster and he has a few mates. We still don't have enough players who can change the course of a game. 

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

4 minutes ago, old dee said:

We just signed Stretch up for two more years. He is  is a good vfl player. Has IMO no skill that hurts the opposition. Waste of a spot in our 40 team roster and he has a few mates. We still don't have enough players who can change the course of a game. 

We have a few too many of those OD.   As soon as they are asked to step up to senior (and some should probably never be asked) they more often than not fail badly.

Hannan and Maynard were the only two that had some sort of impact in patches this year IMO.

Personally I think part of the answer lies with our Casey alignment and the inability to have those at VFL level playing in a team that plays the same game style that Goody is trying to implement at senior level, across the whole 22. When they do get the call up they feel a little lost and not quite understanding of what's required at senior level.

Personally I would review this alignment as fixing it might Improve this area.  As I have said many times before, Port would appear to be a pretty good fit given they have Melbourne in their name already, colours similar and they already sing the old flag! They would probably appreciate the extra funding as well.

Casey is not a good cultural 'MFC/AFL game style" fit IMO.

[monoccular 17,599]

Richmond has had a dream run injury wise, and look at their stability at VFL and AFL levels.

And while strategic injury is not the cause for us missing finals it certainly played a big role.   Without those strategic injuries out depth would not have been so tested. 

Take Martin and Cotchin and maybe Reiwoldt out and they would be just above average: Duckwood missing or playing injured, plus Dangerfield and Hawkins and Geelong would / have struggled.   IMO only Sydney (academy) and GW$ ( draft gimmies)  have enough real depth to cope with multiple strategic injuries. 

[junk 342]

We do need more depth particulary midfielders and we need a ruckman/forward. Watching Syd v Ess, Towers for Syd played well thou he had been a fringe player for a long time. King and Filip… are young and may be future ruck/forward stars.(hopefully they will have a breakout year 2018). We will have to trade someone of importance to get what we want.

[junk 342]

Looking thru the half full crystal glass the following will happen 2018. Jetta plays forward,Maynard and J.Smith become mids,O.Mac wing. J.Higgins play f.p. Tyson and Kennedy goes west,how far not determined.Watts or Hogan will leave. 

[deespicable me 1,498]

15 hours ago, ENYAW said:

Looking thru the half full crystal glass the following will happen 2018. Jetta plays forward,Maynard and J.Smith become mids,O.Mac wing. J.Higgins play f.p. Tyson and Kennedy goes west,how far not determined.Watts or Hogan will leave. 

That glass is chipped, cracked and leaking.

[beelzebub 23,383]

19 hours ago, rjay said:

Agree 'Dockett', our issue is quality.

Still too many depth players in the starting 22.

We've got a really good foundation and when those kids get more experience and we add a bit more quality then we will be a quality team.

I can't understand why people seem so concerned with the Kennedys & Wagners of this world.

How exactly are Depth and Quality separate? 

One is a component of the other. 

The very idea of not having enough depth stems from not having enough quality players.

Maturity and experience are other factors but even as a noob Clarry and even the likes of Viney showed more quality than many  with 50-80 games more than them.

We have depth problems because we DONT have enough decent players. Simple as that. Many of the projects and kids arent displaying the right stuff.  Hence..lack of depth

Edited September 10, 2017 by beelzebub

[M_9 2,096]

16 hours ago, Rusty Nails said:

...  As I have said many times before, Port would appear to be a pretty good fit given they have Melbourne in their name already, colours similar and they already sing the old flag! They would probably appreciate the extra funding as well.

'''

...'appreciate the extra funding' is an understatement. Sadly, the future for the Borough's  looks pretty bleak, so an alignment would not be an option, A full-on 'takeover' would, IMO, appear pointless. Standalone, based at Casey would make more sense.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/port-melbourne-vfl-seniors-reserves-to-play-seasonopener-for-free/news-story/4920fc3cea7554d142dbfd06f87d6841

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

25 minutes ago, M_9 said:

...'appreciate the extra funding' is an understatement. Sadly, the future for the Borough's  looks pretty bleak, so an alignment would not be an option, A full-on 'takeover' would, IMO, appear pointless. Standalone, based at Casey would make more sense.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/port-melbourne-vfl-seniors-reserves-to-play-seasonopener-for-free/news-story/4920fc3cea7554d142dbfd06f87d6841

Yes you have a good point on the alignment side.  But sometimes it's better to come in with a public appearance of offering an olive branch "alignment" even if everyone knows it's really a "takeover". 

The Borough are hardly in a position to negotiate their preferred deal.  Could work out very well for us....and them.

[M_9 2,096]

3 hours ago, Rusty Nails said:

Yes you have a good point on the alignment side.  But sometimes it's better to come in with a public appearance of offering an olive branch "alignment" even if everyone knows it's really a "takeover". 

The Borough are hardly in a position to negotiate their preferred deal.  Could work out very well for us....and them.

A number of my mates are Port supporters. They all follow the Swans in the AFL. We're not going to get many to switch (if any).

[drdrake 3,187]

1 hour ago, M_9 said:

A number of my mates are Port supporters. They all follow the Swans in the AFL. We're not going to get many to switch (if any).

The best and worse thing to happen to the VFL clubs is AFL vic canning the development league.  You will be able to cut support staff numbers and player cost. The flip side will be getting the next Generation of kids developed to play at your club.

Back to our depth The issue is age, out side Weiderman and Brayshaw, what kids do we have that played on Saturday to be half excited about

[Biffen 12,947]

I was accused of the same problem by an old girlfriend.

She liked to yap on all the time so she had to go.

She was only like a 9 or something anyway.