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Dockers want Jake Spencer


MadAsHell

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1 hour ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

Do you think Watts is going to tell a supporter he doesn't enjoy playing in the ruck? 

Dawes did all the time. 


So we all agree we need to find another ruckman to add to Spence and King. And we all agree that if Freo want Spence for something good we'd say yes. From memory, Hannath was in trouble at Freo and was on the way out (read somewhere?). Could be a straight swap and a swap of 2nd rounders (Satisfies the Dons). 

McInerney was really good yesterday and he's been invited to the combine. Interesting about the state combines this year is that very few players have been nominated by more than 1 club. If we invited him, chances are we are the only one interested. 

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2 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

I think you are forgetting that Watts has been taking turns in the ruck, he actually enjoys it, I asked him, with a bit more work during the pre season on the craft, he could provide a handy backup to either Gawn or Spencer

Nope Jack Watts is not the answer in the ruck, but then neither is Jake Spencer! 

One of the reasons I want Vickery is for this purpose! Either him or search high and low in and out of the country for another option! Is Majak Daw a realistic option??

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I spoke with Ben Kennedy today. He said he would be willing to have a crack in the ruck as he had a go there in the U/11s when everyone was the same size. 

Thought it was strange but then players don't have any reason to bend the truth with me. I've got a good relationship with them. I'll mention it in every thread. 

The discussion on Spencer is a moot point, really. He has another year and the author of that article clearly didn't know that. 

A forward/ruckman would be handy, but they don't just grow on trees. Well, not good ones anyway. Watts, however, is not the long term answer. 

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11 minutes ago, picket fence said:

Nope Jack Watts is not the answer in the ruck, but then neither is Jake Spencer! 

One of the reasons I want Vickery is for this purpose! Either him or search high and low in and out of the country for another option! Is Majak Daw a realistic option??

You have seen Vickery ruck? So you want us to get rid of a ruckman, and bring in a forward/ruck who Richmond have perservered with for nearly the same amount of time as we have with Spencer, and are now looking at getting rid of

 

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14 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

I spoke with Ben Kennedy today. He said he would be willing to have a crack in the ruck as he had a go there in the U/11s when everyone was the same size. 

Thought it was strange but then players don't have any reason to bend the truth with me. I've got a good relationship with them. I'll mention it in every thread. 

The discussion on Spencer is a moot point, really. He has another year and the author of that article clearly didn't know that. 

A forward/ruckman would be handy, but they don't just grow on trees. Well, not good ones anyway. Watts, however, is not the long term answer. 

A brave, but in the end,  futile attempt at humour, I thought you would be too shy to come out behind your keyboard to speak to the players, nobody is saying that Watts is the answer, but a couple of posters have said that a fwd/ruck would be a good idea, eg Vickery, Watts is that at the moment

Edited by Satyriconhome
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2 hours ago, Whispering_Jack said:

Ironically, it was at around that time when we tried to draft Jack Hannath in the PSD but were gazumped by the Dockers.

My thoughts are that since there are clubs out there who through retirements and/or injuries have a pressing need for a mature ruckman, there might be a chance that we could benefit by a trade of Spencer while at the same time sourcing a young big man in that 22/23 age group who might be close to ready and can act as Gawn's understudy and also possibly add something to our forward line. In addition, I would be thinking in terms of drafting Oscar McInerney who is also around that age and is clearly preferred at Casey over Max King ATM.

In any event, the laws of demand and supply operate and if Spencer's trade value has gone up as a result of those injuries to Nic Nat and Ceglar and the imminent end to Sandlilands' career at Freo, then we could decide to take advantage.

 

And didn't this site go into meltdown when we missed Hannath yet what has he done at the Dockers? 

 

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I hope we keep him, he is underrated.  Of course if he wants to l;eave and another team promises him more opportunity, we should probably grant his wish.

The games he has played he hasnt once disgraced himself. His second efforts for a ruckman are elite.

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1 hour ago, Little Goffy said:

Maybe after the resounding success of the 'team defence' style of football, soon we will see 'team rucking'.

Everyone over 195cm takes a couple of ruck contests a game, confusing the hell out of the opposition.

I've often wondered what would happen if you just stuck another midfielder in the circle and didn't contest the ruck at all.

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10 minutes ago, Nasher said:

I've often wondered what would happen if you just stuck another midfielder in the circle and didn't contest the ruck at all.

Eeeeekkkkk  each team would wait for the other one to grab it and tackle them in the hope of getting  holding the ball and a free kick, a farce, but on a serious note, my thought that if a team has a dominant ruckman because of the size of the players coming through now we will see more and more of the third man up to nullify the dominant ruckman

Edited by Satyriconhome
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I've often wondered the same as Nasher. The opposition ruck won't grab it because he would be tackled immediately. Where does he hit it? To a contest where there are more opposition players? 

The scenario is only valid in the centre circle, but what we are seeing around the ground is teams nullifying ruck contests, through 3rd man up.

 

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I think that the ruck position is probably the most vulnerable to change (elimination) of any of the traditional positions.

As many have posted on this thread the ideal is to have four players at various stages of development allocated to being a specialist ruck. That is a high percentage of your list dedicated to one position especially if only one of them is played.

We have Gawn who this year is All Australian. He would probably qualify in our best 22 as an around the ground player. His ruck work is a bonus. More importantly it would seem that where teams want to nullify our ruck advantage it is relatively easily done.

We may see teams just going for four mobile 6 foot players rather than the traditional developing ruck team. Alternatively it may be that teams opt to take the risk of developing no one in the belief that they can get an adequate 25=28 year old player from the lesser leagues when the need arrives. (A big risk if your ruckman goes down mid -season ..... mid season draft anyone??)

Came across this article from earlier this year on the various ruckmen at each of the teams.

http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/whos-your-afl-clubs-best-ruckman-combination/news-story/746a11cd0e40d04806ea49389f9fdbb4

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14 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

Eeeeekkkkk  each team would wait for the other one to grab it and tackle them in the hope of getting  holding the ball and a free kick, a farce, but on a serious note, my thought that if a team has a dominant ruckman because of the size of the players coming through now we will see more and more of the third man up to nullify the dominant ruckman

Until they change the rules to make it a true one on one ruck contest.

23 minutes ago, Nasher said:

I've often wondered what would happen if you just stuck another midfielder in the circle and didn't contest the ruck at all.

Didn't the doggies do this last year for a run of games? IIRC it worked out quite well for them. If a team has a poor tap ruckman, playing another midfielder makes sense, especially a tall one like Bont.

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7 minutes ago, george_on_the_outer said:

I've often wondered the same as Nasher. The opposition ruck won't grab it because he would be tackled immediately. Where does he hit it? To a contest where there are more opposition players? 

The scenario is only valid in the centre circle, but what we are seeing around the ground is teams nullifying ruck contests, through 3rd man up.

 

The ludicrous inconsistent application of the rules have corrupted the purity of ruck play insidiously for years.  When a free is given it is usually for an obscure technical reason yet a ruckman  is allowed to plant his foot or knee into another usually superior player to nullify him. This also adds to risk of injury. And third man up should be banned.  Clear simple rules will suffice.

Edited by america de cali
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12 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

I think that the ruck position is probably the most vulnerable to change (elimination) of any of the traditional positions.

I think that they will keep it, what is the alternative for a throw in from the boundary, a kick to the team that didn't put it out? If they were in the lead and it was the last minute or two they could then waste time Or the centre bounce, give it to the team that has been scored against? same thing

I know all sports are trying to speed the game up and stop unnecessary stoppages, Union authorising lifting in lineouts coz teams did it anyway and the constant stopping and starting slowed it down, League with the scrum, they tried to take it out and there was uproar, so a quick unopposed feed and the game is on again, Soccer with the kick back to the goalkeeper etc etc

The only change I can see and Gawn, Goldstein and Jacobs have set the benchmark, is a ruckman who is an aerobic beast who can run as long as the midfielders, the lumbering tap ruckman is a thing of past, an aerobic beast who can kick goals, run all day and tap is the way to go

 

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Sorry Saty for confusing you

I was not meaning that they would eliminate ruck play but rather that teams would evolve in a way that the need for a ruck specialist is eliminated. Your last paragraph seems to be saying much the same.

The alternative is to make ruck play more important by removing third men up, relooking at the centre bounce etc. Personally I prefer this method but I doubt that we will see any movement given that it is not in the interests of those clubs who do not have dominant ruckmen (the majority).

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Spencer wants to play senior footy,a the moment there is no room in the senior side for him. Also he lack skillls to make him a forward or back pocket player. At 27 it is time for him to shove off.The Dees have players as tall as Watts in the Weed and O'Mac,perhaps when they bulk up they may be able to do some of the ruck work. Max King cannot be rookied for a 4th year and why should he. We probably need to recruit a fast forward/ruck and hopefully there is a diamond in the rough.

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6 hours ago, mo64 said:

Damn, I was hoping it was true. I thought we could do a straight swap Fyfe for Spencer.

If Spencer has trade currency, it would make perfect sense to offload him. Offers little at AFL level.

He's playing in Finals and played pretty well against Druggies Mark 1 last year.

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7 hours ago, Mach5 said:

Looks like it has been changed.

Probably a typical article consisting of rumours fabricated by the author, and they didn't know at first that Jake was contracted, so tweaked things once realised.

Standard rubbish not worth the Internet paper it's not printed on.

They might have meant Jesse Hogan but got him and Jake the Snake mixed up.

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42 minutes ago, ENYAW said:

Spencer wants to play senior footy,a the moment there is no room in the senior side for him. Also he lack skillls to make him a forward or back pocket player. At 27 it is time for him to shove off.The Dees have players as tall as Watts in the Weed and O'Mac,perhaps when they bulk up they may be able to do some of the ruck work. Max King cannot be rookied for a 4th year and why should he. We probably need to recruit a fast forward/ruck and hopefully there is a diamond in the rough.

I spoke to him and yes he would like to play senior footy, but Gawn played to well this season and got through the season unscathed but he was also happy to take the 1 year extension with MFC, he is also one of the players who want to win the flag with Casey

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Pretty simples isn't it?

Spencer signed as pure insurance incase Gawn went down. He got a one year contract. One year.

That fact confirms to me that the club are looking at bringing in someone who actually possesses the ability to play forward and perhaps in tandem with Max.

The discussion as to whether or not Spencer is 'valuable' or not is not a discussion worth having.

It should be whether or not we can bring someone in who can provide more than what Spencer has been able to provide (which is not a lot).

All we should be looking at is how and where we can improve our list. 

In my view, I think we need to find someone who can play as an effective forward and who can genuinely support Max Gawn. For a couple of reasons. To prolong Max's career and to add potency to our side.

And it really won't be that hard to find someone who isn't a star but who unlike Spencer, can play that role well. The only reason we haven't is because we've had way too many other things to fix that have been prioritised. List building takes time. Especially when you've come from where we have.

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7 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

I think you are forgetting that Watts has been taking turns in the ruck, he actually enjoys it, I asked him, with a bit more work during the pre season on the craft, he could provide a handy backup to either Gawn or Spencer

Nope Jack Watts is not the answer in the ruck, but then neither is Jake Spencer! 

One of the reasons I want Vickery is for this purpose! Either him or search high and low in and out of the country for another option! Is Majak Daw a realistic option??

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