Post Season Discussion 2016

[Mickey 4,684]

Would love to be a fly on the wall of a few exit interviews. Dunny, Garlo and Grimes would have to be... interesting

[Robbie57 2,020]

12 hours ago, SaberFang said:

In the first 16 years of the AFL, a spread of 10 teams won a premiership (in a 16 team competition).

In the last 11 years, only 5 teams have won a premiership (Hawthorn, Sydney, Geelong, West Coast and Collingwood), with 3 of these teams making up this year's top 4 - the other being the AFL funded, concession-riddled GWS, given handout after handout to ensure success. This has also resulted in an 18-team competition, making the likelihood of premiership success even smaller for clubs at the bottom.

The AFL are directly responsible for this mess. They've created it with the introduction of expansion clubs and free agency at the same time; gutting struggling clubs of their access to talent, both via an inability to access the draft's best talent for 4 successive years, and the ability for expansion clubs to take other club's players without giving anything up (essentially free agency). And all to prop-up these plastic franchises, one of which is an unmitigated disaster after 6 years, the other struggling to even hit 10,000 members. Then, to top it all off, creating a mechanism of free passage for the competitions's best players to the "successful" clubs where they don't have to sacrifice any draft assets -- this was the key pillar of an equalised draft and trade period, now left in ruins.

Their laughable "equalisation policy," basically devised and signed off by the likes of Eddie McGuire (a bit like the dunderheads in Labor having miners sign off on their laughable mining tax), has been a complete failure that made no in-roads whatsoever in helping struggling clubs actually climb the ladder and realise success.

Considering Eddie's very own team have only achieved two premierships since 1958, maybe it's dawning on him that the system is fundamentally broken now. A sad state of affairs when the Collingwood president would be more aware of the state of this competition than the incompetent moron currently in charge.

Agree its time to limit to end the farce that trading has developed into these days.

 

[What 18,810]

The last two weeks really put a dampener on things.

Perhaps it was just the long season catching up with the youngest team in the comp... there were patches in the second half of the season where we did look tired but still managed to beat the Hawks and win those 3 games in a row which was great.

But yeah, those last 2 games... urghhhhh.

[poita 3,902]

Well we started Roos' reign as a laughing stock, and finished it much the same way. Ten wins are certainly a positive, but they also serve to make the semi-regular debacles even more painful. We clearly have a much better and deeper list than three years ago, so it would suggest to me that the improvement has come from greater talent, and certainly not from any increased commitment or mental toughness. At this point, the lack of mental fortitude, and the inability to come to play each week, are the main things holding this group back.

The game plan was much more palatable this year, and even in some of our worst losses (ie St Kilda in round 6) there was some decent play. But when the effort dropped away, the lack of a plan B got exposed horribly even by poor teams such as Essendon. Ultimately our performances were largely dictated by the form of Max Gawn. When he played well we generally won. I don't think we came close to winning a game this year when he was beaten on the day as players such as Viney struggled for supply.

Whilst most people seem to think that playing finals this year might have given us a false sense of confidence, we may live to regret the past fortnight. We had an extraordinarily good run with injuries to key players this year, and the draw was pretty favourable. Finishing 11th puts us into that middle bracket with teams such as the Bulldogs, North and St Kilda who we have struggled against recently, so our draw will likely be tougher next year. Our ruck and key position depth is still poor, so injuries to any of Gawn, McDonald and Hogan would be huge to overcome.

The emergence of Hunt and Oscar McDonald were clear positives, and Oliver is only a pre season away from building the tank he needs to thrive. Brayshaw looked better each week as the season came to a close. Petracca was equal parts promise and frustration, as was Hogan. Weideman looks miles away and his lack of workrate is a real concern. Salem is a real worry for me also. Other youngsters such as Harmes and Wagner look like they are just place holders until better players come along.

The disappointment for me has back the lack of development from the middle part of our list. I didn't see any development or improvement from the likes of Kennedy, Bugg, Vandenberg, Neal-Bullen, and M.Jones (to say nothing of lesser names such as Michie and Newton), and all of a sudden we are back to having a large number of players who simply won't make it as regular AFL players. Most of these are contracted for next year, so there will be another cleanout coming. I am on record as a fan of Trengove and Grimes and I hope both get the chances to push for regular selection next year without a coach who marks players card for one poor game. Equally I hope that both Lumumba and Dawes are gone in the next month.

 

 

 

[drdrake 3,163]

Still struggle to see players that are match winners on our list.  Guys that can change the course of a game of there own boot.  We are building a team of workers but can't see the top line class.

[SPC 3,549]

1 hour ago, Petraccattack said:

The last two weeks really put a dampener on things.

Perhaps it was just the long season catching up with the youngest team in the comp... there were patches in the second half of the season where we did look tired but still managed to beat the Hawks and win those 3 games in a row which was great.

But yeah, those last 2 games... urghhhhh.

Yeah.. feel hollow after the last 2 weeks, with no interest to even watch finals.

 

[DemonLad5 1,642]

We lacked maturity and leadership. Would've won a few more games if we had some better leaders. Reason the Saints were able to do better than us. Overall a successful year. Finals 2017

[DemonLad5 1,642]

Those saying they'd drop Nathan Jones have rocks in their heads. 

[Little Richard 6,262]

This year pretty much met my expectations.

Some strides forward, and some steps backward. The losses to Carlton and Geelong aren't that surprising and should almost be expected from such a young side. The thing that irks me the most is the fact that we were so close to having a season that exceeded everyone's expectations and making the finals. Those losses to Essendon and North Melbourne, and later, Carlton, just killed our chances (obviously).

I have total faith though that our list is now full of guys who will take the positives from those losses, steel their resolve and go full tilt next year. They'll all be better for this season, and for the first time in years we have young players who haven't been blooded in an environment of enormous, morale shattering defeats, but rather a competitive, rising team.

Go Dees.

[SPC 3,549]

One thing is for certain.... Big Maxy will enjoy the break!

Rucked the entire year on his own, amazing effort.

[3Dee 1,153]

1 hour ago, poita said:

The disappointment for me has back the lack of development from the middle part of our list. I didn't see any development or improvement from the likes of Kennedy, Bugg, Vandenberg, Neal-Bullen, and M.Jones

Disagree, M. Jones certainly showed improvement, Bugg was welcomed and VB did more than enough to stick around.

[DeeZone 9,841]

it's hard to be positive when you finish the year with two really bad losses. It has been a strange year with Dunn & Garland, two of our stalwart defenders no longer able to get a game, Dawes & Lumumba falling by the wayside through injury. looking back it has been a watershed year with the changing of the guard. The kids have shown that they can play AFL footy, we won 10 were very close on another 4-5 times. Nat Jones, Bernie Vince, Jack Viney & Big Max were all showing signs of wear and tear after the PA game in Adelaide. We broke a few more hoo dood's, in games that count. We have a talented list of young players that Can Play AFL, they will continue to grow and improve.

Our leaders will lick their wounds and come back stronger than before and we will break some more hoo doo's next year and beat more teams that we have struggled to compete against in the past, we could be playing Finals if this team lives up to expectations, it could be a second coming of our '87 & '98 teams who possessed both the talent and the belief. We need the FD to bring in another 3-4 players that can improve our overall list for an extended run of Finals Footy, hopefully culminating in a FLAG!!! GO DEE's!!!

[DubDee 25,862]

Regarding the lack of leadership issue, it is obvious we lack senior leaders.  The only way to address it is to build leadership from within, we have a great crop of under 23's and we need to empower and develop them.  Starting with Viney and T Mac and then onto Brayshaw, Oliver, Hogan in the years to come. Like Hawks did with their young crop.

Recruiting leaders doesnt work that well IMO (although Crossy was awesome), we need to step up.

[DubDee 25,862]

Regarding 2016 overall, it was the most enjoyable year since 2006 - easily.

i went to the footy each week and thought we could actually win.  The win against the Hawks was just incredible.

We scored freely, playing exciting footy, unearthed some gems. Only problem is we keep getting younger!

cant wait to see the impact Brayshaw, Petracca and Oliver can make to our team next year (in particular).  they will transform our midfield.  Get stuck into preseason boys!

[bing181 9,235]

18 hours ago, doc roet said:

But when was the last time you saw him take the game by the scruff of the neck and bang a couple of goals,or do something that really lifted the team.

That's not leadership, that's being a show poney and winning Brownlow Votes. If what you're saying is true, the Collingwood captain through the Malthouse years wouldn't have been Nick Maxwell, it would have been Dane Swan.

Leadership is doing the [censored] work: making sure players get into position, making sure players stick to the game plan and play their roles, encouraging (younger) players who've just given away a goal through a stupid turnover, reinforcing the coaches' message, sticking up for the other players on the field, adjusting positioning on the field in response to what's going on, sacrificing your own game in the interest of the team, helping (younger) players focus, leading by example in always trying to do what the team is supposed to be doing etc. etc.

But much of what a captain does is off-field: how they prepare before a game, how they train, how they approach being a professional footballer, how they play the part of role model, and in particular how they work as a conduit between the coaches and the players etc. etc. 

Happy to take Roos' opinions on Jones in this regard. He'd know.

[daisycutter 29,616]

20 hours ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

2016 leadership group 

Jones 

Vince 

Viney (learning)

Tmac (learning)

Gawn (learning)

Garland (can't get a game)

2015 leadership group 

Jones

Dunn (can't get a game this year)

Grimes (can't get a game this year)

Dawes (can't get a game this year)

H (injured but has been passed by others)

Cross (retired)

2014 leadership group

Jones (only one consistently having a crack)

Grimes (was out of his depth)

Trengove (was out of his depth)

Clark (no comment)

Garland (lack of other candidates)

Frawley (had already left the building)

 

Speaks volumes about where we're currently at.

 

beautifully explains why our leadership selection process has been grossly flawed

[DemonLad5 1,642]

Gawn, Jones, Hogan, T.Mac, O.Mac, Hunt, Oliver, Brayshaw, Viney, Watts, Tyson, Stretch, Weed, Petracca, Jetta are the untouchables

Entertain offers for the rest

Edited August 29, 2016 by DemonLad5

[bing181 9,235]

1 hour ago, DemonLad5 said:

Gawn, Jones, Hogan, T.Mac, O.Mac, Hunt, Oliver, Brayshaw, Viney, Watts, Tyson, Stretch, Weed, Petracca, Jetta are the untouchables

Entertain offers for the rest

You missed Salem.

Only injury/illness has held him back, but we saw on the weekend what we've been missing. Essential going forward.

[DemonLad5 1,642]

11 minutes ago, bing181 said:

You missed Salem.

Only injury/illness has held him back, but we saw on the weekend what we've been missing. Essential going forward.

I gave him alot of thought and decided for the right offer I'd look at it.

[CBDees 3,167]

9 minutes ago, bing181 said:

You missed Salem.

Only injury/illness has held him back, but we saw on the weekend what we've been missing. Essential going forward.

I'm predicting Trenners will be back next year and surprise many! He was always better than $cully on a number of fronts and next year he will surprise the pundits (as $cully has finally done this year)!

[beelzebub 23,376]

3 minutes ago, CBDees said:

I'm predicting Trenners will be back next year and surprise many! He was always better than $cully on a number of fronts and next year he will surprise the pundits (as $cully has finally done this year)!

I agree I reckon hes now a dark horse hiding in plain sight. Has much unfinished business and already shown the drive and perseverance to get there. 

He has a lot of footy nose !!

[DeeZone 9,841]

6 hours ago, DemonLad5 said:

Gawn, Jones, Hogan, T.Mac, O.Mac, Hunt, Oliver, Brayshaw, Viney, Watts, Tyson, Stretch, Weed, Petracca, Jetta are the untouchables

Entertain offers for the rest

I would add Kent, Harmes, Frost & Melksham to this list of untouchables at this point of time. Sorry bernie I didn't realize that you had been left out in the cold???

Edited August 29, 2016 by DeeZone

[Adam The God 30,256]

6 hours ago, DemonLad5 said:

Gawn, Jones, Hogan, T.Mac, O.Mac, Hunt, Oliver, Brayshaw, Viney, Watts, Tyson, Stretch, Weed, Petracca, Jetta are the untouchables

Entertain offers for the rest

So Salem, Frost and Vince are tradeable? Not unless there's something pretty bloody good on the end of the hook. Frost's pace and ability to break the lines is a big reason why our defence improved so much in the second half of the season. 

[Lucifers Hero 39,799]

An excellent and objective view of our season.  Good analysis and well supported with facts - it reads like she has actually watched our games and knows something about our club.  http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/melbourne-2016-end-of-season-report-card/news-story/a7f4390765769108b98308616eb62181 with a B+ rating for the season which I think is a fair.  

Her summary of our List: 

THE LIST

• Elite: Max Gawn
• Big Improvers: Jayden Hunt, Jack Watts, Dean Kent, Billy Stretch, Oscar McDonald
• Going, going: Chris Dawes, Cam Pedersen, Ben Newton, Max King, Matt Jones
• Gone: Dean Terlich, Jack Grimes, Viv Michie
• Trade bait: Chris Dawes, Jay Kennedy-Harris (contracted), Lynden Dunn (contracted)

Could have added a couple more to the 'Big Improvers' eg Tyson, Viney.  A category of 'Future Exciting Players' would include: Petracca, Oliver, Brayshaw, Weideman, Hogan.  But I guess she couldn't include the whole list.

PREMIERSHIP CLOCK

THE Dees are still a fair way off that elusive premiership. That said, nobody was expecting them to be close this year. They’re trending the right way though. 8pm.

Found myself agreeing with just about everything written and 8 pm on the Premiership Clock looks about right.

 

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

4 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

• Trade bait: Chris Dawes, Jay Kennedy-Harris (contracted), Lynden Dunn (contracted)

 

When will our incompetent football media realise that for a player to be traded they must be contracted, therefore what's the point of mentioning they are contracted?