COBURG v CASEY SCORPIONS

[picket fence 17,645]

Clarry 36 disposals and not in best?? WTF!

I reckon the selectors are making a huge mistake not developing him in the ones! HUGE!

[P-man 13,366]

38 minutes ago, Nasher said:

Yep - as I said in a previous thread, there won't be a lot of time in between him sitting down with Goodwin who will say "thanks for trying, good luck after footy" and winning the Casey B&F, which he should do by the sounds.  I know you (and others such as P-Man) believe he's been hard done by; I just think he's an unfortunate victim of the harsh reality of professional sport: if those behind the steering wheel don't believe in you, you won't get a lot chance to prove them wrong, and failure becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.  There are only 22 places in the team and they're always going to pick the team they think is best, that's their job at the end of the day.

Either way, there's not much justice in the world for players like Michie.  Best of luck to him.

Edit: and for what it's worth, he's got some pretty good company in that boat with two former MFC captains.

It's not make or break. I'm not suggesting Michie is some unrequited star. It's as much a cultural thing for me if anything. Every individual performance should be assessed on its merits in my opinion. As you allude to, that isn't the reality. 

I see a player like Wagner for instance who has fairly obvious deficiencies but is continually selected, sometimes it seems irrespective of performance. Justified on an age basis perhaps, but Michie is 24 so he's hardly a pensioner.

I think we could do alot worse than these blokes to place pressure upon those in the seniors. If we can replace them with Prestias and Hibberds, fair enough. If not, a new bunch of kids to place pressure upon the existing bunch of kids is not an enticing prospect.

 

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

2 minutes ago, picket fence said:

Clarry 36 disposals and not in best?? WTF!

I reckon the selectors are making a huge mistake not developing him in the ones! HUGE!

What's your preferred precedent? Trengove or Grimes?

[DV8 2,271]

8 minutes ago, picket fence said:

Clarry 36 disposals and not in best?? WTF!

I reckon the selectors are making a huge mistake not developing him in the ones! HUGE!

Develop yes, but to learn a new role, maybe not ?

[Nasher 33,617]

14 minutes ago, P-man said:

It's not make or break. I'm not suggesting Michie is some unrequited star. It's as much a cultural thing for me if anything. Every individual performance should be assessed on its merits in my opinion. As you allude to, that isn't the reality. 

Haha, mate, did you think I was WYL or something? I didn't need you to explain to me that you weren't suggesting Michie is an unrequited star - I know things aren't black and white.  I doubt our views on Michie as a player are very far apart at all.

I just think if I were selecting the side and it was my ass on the line, I'd have a hard time selecting a player I didn't rate over a player I did.  Good players are always allowed time to find their form in the firsts if the coaches think the upside justifies the risk.  It's easy to argue when it's a player like vandenBerg who seems to be getting the armchair ride, but what if it was, say, Viney who had had a horror stretch of 5 games?  I think you'd agree that it'd ridiculous to drop Viney and select Michie instead - this obviously hurts the team in the long run.  Where each player fits in on that spectrum (refer Roos "margin for error" comments) becomes very subjective of course, and we could argue about that endlessly.

[P-man 13,366]

1 minute ago, Nasher said:

Haha, mate, did you think I was WYL or something? I didn't need you to explain to me that you weren't suggesting Michie is an unrequited star - I know things aren't black and white.  I doubt our views on Michie as a player are very far apart at all.

I just think if I were selecting the side, I'd have a hard time selecting a player I didn't rate over a player I did.  Good players are always allowed time to find their form in the firsts if the coaches think the upside justifies the risk.  It's easy to argue when it's a player like vandenBerg who seems to be getting the armchair ride, but what if it was, say, Viney who had had a horror stretch of 5 games?  I think you'd agree that it'd ridiculous to drop Viney and select Michie instead - this obviously hurts the team in the long run.  Where each player fits in on that spectrum (refer Roos "margin for error" comments) becomes very subjective of course, and we could argue about that endlessly.

No doubt there's a tipping point in terms of who goes out and in, although Vines would never have 5 bad games in a row so it's not a realistic example 

Those in charge of these decisions know a lot more than me and, you'd expect, a lot more than anyone on this site. There are nuances about roles that we're not privy to for a start. But as an armchair observer, we are placing ALOT of faith in some of these young players by routinely snubbing players in their mid 20s who are bashing the door down in the seconds. The apparent favouritism makes me a tad nervous. I'd feel more comfortable seeing strong performances getting due reward.

[binman 43,921]

59 minutes ago, Samael said:

Dead right. Cruel world.

Im a fan samael and supect he will remain at the club.

Perhaps he will forever hover between the ones and twos but clubs need soldiers who can come into the seniors and be relied on to play their role, adhere to team rules and understand the game plan. Look at the bullies this year. Their back up players have been brilliant and kept them in contention. It is worth noting in this context we have had an amazing run with injuries this season. In most seasons michie would had more opportunties.

[picket fence 17,645]

20 minutes ago, Unleash Hell said:

What's your preferred precedent? Trengove or Grimes?

Neither of those two will be with us next year. Clarry needs to be to given every opportunity in the ones right now!! He is too good for the magoos!

Edited July 30, 2016 by picket fence

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

12 minutes ago, picket fence said:

Neither of those two will be with us next year. Clarry needs to be to given every opportunity in the ones right now!! He is too good for the magoos!

haha relax mate, you missed my point. There is no need to rush the kid has 19 let him build a tank. I also think he isn't explosive offensive enough with ball in hand. Something he will need to learn

I watched a half I saw a couple of blokes that were too good for VFL

Salem, Oliver and Weeds. All need some time to develop. I didn't mind Joel Smith as well

Edited July 30, 2016 by Unleash Hell

[Gator 17,505]

2 hours ago, Tough Kent said:

Ok, let's hope the 27 year old Grimes who lacks a yard and makes questionable decisions with the footy on a regular basis can turn his game around at the top level. 

Grimes isn't good enough, but where has this myth that he "lacks a yard" come from ?  His pace is fine. 

[WERRIDEE 5,534]

4 hours ago, Dante said:

 

Everyone seems to think that Grimes will get picked up by Richmond, I assume because his brother plays there, well that's about as logical as Prestia coming to Melbourne because his mum and dad barrack for Melbourne.

I would think that Richmond will go the youth path and doubt they would be interested in a player who has failed at another club, they've done that too often in the past.

Will he get another contract, not sure but whatever, I hope he gets another gig if he does get delisted by us.

Maybe Essendon as part of the Hibberd deal?

Harmes and Vanders surely need big games tomorrow with Kennedy and Oliver in brilliant form in the VFL. Grimes,Michie and Newton are finished at Melbourne, Kennedy and Oliver need to be in the seniors ASAP. 

[deespicable me 1,498]

I went and here are some of my thoughts on the game.

The opposition were quite poor. We are a very good contested ball team and killed them at the stoppages. By midway through the second quarter when we were outscoring them into the wind, you could tell they started to become a bit of a rabble.

I think Plapp the coach is doing a pretty good job, we are a good team, they were good to watch and there were some nice pieces of play. I hope all the boys that are eligible for finals put their hand up, we will go O.k I think if we have a team of todays quality.

Mitchie was good. Since Oliver, Trengove, Salem, ANB and Grimes took most of the stoppage work, they have used Mitchie off half-back. They all look for him and he was a pretty good distributor. It is as good as I've seen him play and he looked comfortable out there. Does it translate to AFL level? Not sure.

Salem was also pretty good. They played him on-ball and he and Oliver cut them to ribbons. He was quick but mainly short passes and handballs so didn't get a great deal of penetration. I think it would be good for him to spend a couple more weeks at this level to get some more fitness that playing on-ball will give him and getting the ball in hand a lot. He will get back to AFL level for sure.

Oliver is great to watch. He is a big bodied mid and for a kid his age to be doing what he did today against men is very impressive. He won quite a few frees and a couple of his tackles were fantastic. One guy tried to run away from him and he was just so strong as he caught him and threw him to the ground and won the free. As we all know he has lovely quick hands in close and they were great today but he also kicked well and with a bit of space always hit his target. I don't mind him staying at this level as well because he still has a lot to learn and when you get it 30 times a game he will only get better. He could improve and concentrate on forward work, I would like to see him kick a few more goals, he is so quick with the handball but occassionally I would like him to kick it himself. Anyway going beautifully.

The best game Weidemann has played. He took about 10 to 12 marks today. One on one he isn't strong enough yet but he was leading more today and I don't know who said he is a bit slow because he is a good leader and took a couple of nice marks out in front of his face at good pace. He gave off a couple of goal assists, one a smart kick back to Joel Smith in a better position and another marking on a lead then dishing off to BenKen who slotted it from 50. Nice goal. I too wondered if he was maybe going to be a bust, but today was the most positive I've been about his prospects. Other days he has been brushed off the ball (this will happen again) but today he had presence and was an important part of our attack. He is a natural forward in the Reiwoldt, Watts mould and he got a few of his marks well up on the wing. He can play very tall. When he builds strength and a tank which looking at him he is an impressive build, so he should, I think he may be alright. I think he may be ahead of Watts at the same age but maybe not as skillfull, but like Watts was as a younger man he may still be a couple of pre-seasons away as well. A lot to like today though.

Spenser was up against a big bloke who played a similar game. He was probably one of their best players and honours were about even.

Really liked Joel Smith. He is quick, can jump, is tall and is a real chance to make it. Nearly took mark of the century (well not quite) like his old man. Still doesn't know where to go so needs a lot of coaching but handled right and he may do a Jayden Hunt. Heres hoping.

Number 15 for Casey is good. Of our tall back men I liked him the most, moreso than Dunn and Garland. All Caseys players played well, Hutchy, number 1 is a good full back. 15 is tall and takes a good grab and he looks young enough that he may not have reached his peak. I would like to see the club keep him and maybe Rookie him.

Newton is very confident at this level and played accordingly but like Mitchie when they go up to AFL and they don't have the freedom to create they can get lost. I think they could both make it in the right team because they are good players but they have to find a way to bring their form to the tougher level. Both were great.

Trengove has class. He took a great mark and a lovely shot on goal in the third and a couple of nice passes into the 50, I think his best chance at AFL may be as a half forward who can drift forward and kick a goal.

Grimes, Garlo and Dunn were all good at this level but all three made critical errors that would have pages dedicated to them if they committed such errors at AFL level. They are who they are, but I can understand how they have been kept as back up only and even how there are a few in front of each one in a queue for AFL duties. I would love to see them win a flag with Casey.

Cheers

[SaberFang 7,151]

There is no situation where Grimes is a part of any "deals" with other clubs. He is a free agent, and would be a delisted free agent even if he didn't reach FA eligiblity. No club will give up currency for him.

[WERRIDEE 5,534]

14 minutes ago, deespicable me said:

I went and here are some of my thoughts on the game.

The opposition were quite poor. We are a very good contested ball team and killed them at the stoppages. By midway through the second quarter when we were outscoring them into the wind, you could tell they started to become a bit of a rabble.

I think Plapp the coach is doing a pretty good job, we are a good team, they were good to watch and there were some nice pieces of play. I hope all the boys that are eligible for finals put their hand up, we will go O.k I think if we have a team of todays quality.

Mitchie was good. Since Oliver, Trengove, Salem, ANB and Grimes took most of the stoppage work, they have used Mitchie off half-back. They all look for him and he was a pretty good distributor. It is as good as I've seen him play and he looked comfortable out there. Does it translate to AFL level? Not sure.

Salem was also pretty good. They played him on-ball and he and Oliver cut them to ribbons. He was quick but mainly short passes and handballs so didn't get a great deal of penetration. I think it would be good for him to spend a couple more weeks at this level to get some more fitness that playing on-ball will give him and getting the ball in hand a lot. He will get back to AFL level for sure.

Oliver is great to watch. He is a big bodied mid and for a kid his age to be doing what he did today against men is very impressive. He won quite a few frees and a couple of his tackles were fantastic. One guy tried to run away from him and he was just so strong as he caught him and threw him to the ground and won the free. As we all know he has lovely quick hands in close and they were great today but he also kicked well and with a bit of space always hit his target. I don't mind him staying at this level as well because he still has a lot to learn and when you get it 30 times a game he will only get better. He could improve and concentrate on forward work, I would like to see him kick a few more goals, he is so quick with the handball but occassionally I would like him to kick it himself. Anyway going beautifully.

The best game Weidemann has played. He took about 10 to 12 marks today. One on one he isn't strong enough yet but he was leading more today and I don't know who said he is a bit slow because he is a good leader and took a couple of nice marks out in front of his face at good pace. He gave off a couple of goal assists, one a smart kick back to Joel Smith in a better position and another marking on a lead then dishing off to BenKen who slotted it from 50. Nice goal. I too wondered if he was maybe going to be a bust, but today was the most positive I've been about his prospects. Other days he has been brushed off the ball (this will happen again) but today he had presence and was an important part of our attack. He is a natural forward in the Reiwoldt, Watts mould and he got a few of his marks well up on the wing. He can play very tall. When he builds strength and a tank which looking at him he is an impressive build, so he should, I think he may be alright. I think he may be ahead of Watts at the same age but maybe not as skillfull, but like Watts was as a younger man he may still be a couple of pre-seasons away as well. A lot to like today though.

Spenser was up against a big bloke who played a similar game. He was probably one of their best players and honours were about even.

Really liked Joel Smith. He is quick, can jump, is tall and is a real chance to make it. Nearly took mark of the century (well not quite) like his old man. Still doesn't know where to go so needs a lot of coaching but handled right and he may do a Jayden Hunt. Heres hoping.

Number 15 for Casey is good. Of our tall back men I liked him the most, moreso than Dunn and Garland. All Caseys players played well, Hutchy, number 1 is a good full back. 15 is tall and takes a good grab and he looks young enough that he may not have reached his peak. I would like to see the club keep him and maybe Rookie him.

Newton is very confident at this level and played accordingly but like Mitchie when they go up to AFL and they don't have the freedom to create they can get lost. I think they could both make it in the right team because they are good players but they have to find a way to bring their form to the tougher level. Both were great.

Trengove has class. He took a great mark and a lovely shot on goal in the third and a couple of nice passes into the 50, I think his best chance at AFL may be as a half forward who can drift forward and kick a goal.

Grimes, Garlo and Dunn were all good at this level but all three made critical errors that would have pages dedicated to them if they committed such errors at AFL level. They are who they are, but I can understand how they have been kept as back up only and even how there are a few in front of each one in a queue for AFL duties. I would love to see them win a flag with Casey.

Cheers

No 15 is Keilty. Your thoughts on Kennedy?

[deespicable me 1,498]

Kennedy was good and apart from the junior players Oliver and Salem who are learning still, he is probably first in line for a promotion. He is a penetrating kick and has good vision, I think he is in discussions every week for team selection. Can he cement a spot in the seniors. I'm not sure, but he has played up a lot this year, he has games at senior level where you are not surprised he is dropped, but his attitude is great, he tried his heart out today, didn't play forward as much.

[Adam The God 30,484]

8 hours ago, KC from Casey said:

It's all over with the Scorpions winning in a canter by 78 points

Casey Scorpions 2.9.21 6.12.48 14.17.101 16.20.116

Coburg 1.0.6 3.0.18 4.0.24 6.2.38

Goals

Casey Scorpions Terlich Weideman 3 Michie Neal-Bullen 2 D Collis Kennedy Pedersen Scott J Smith Trengove

Coburg Saad 3 Hill Posar Ronke

Best

Casey Scorpions Newton Michie Neal-Bullen Weideman Terlich Keilty

Coburg Lehmann Fox Hunt Featherstone Kovacevic Gregory

Disposals Grimes Kennedy 39 Oliver 36 Newton 34 Michie Trengove 30 Morris 26 Terlich 25

Thanks for this KC. Didn't see a second of the game, so just wondering how Oliver wasn't in the best with 36 touches. Particularly, as some seemed to think he was getting the job down on the inside.

[Whispering_Jack 30,753]

You can view the replay here.

[Gator 17,505]

I take zero notice of Casey's listed best.  They're utterly irrelevant from the games I've attended. 

[Deestar9 1,649]

11 hours ago, P-man said:

It's not make or break. I'm not suggesting Michie is some unrequited star. It's as much a cultural thing for me if anything. Every individual performance should be assessed on its merits in my opinion. As you allude to, that isn't the reality. 

I see a player like Wagner for instance who has fairly obvious deficiencies but is continually selected, sometimes it seems irrespective of performance. Justified on an age basis perhaps, but Michie is 24 so he's hardly a pensioner.

I think we could do alot worse than these blokes to place pressure upon those in the seniors. If we can replace them with Prestias and Hibberds, fair enough. If not, a new bunch of kids to place pressure upon the existing bunch of kids is not an enticing prospect.

 

Wagner is being developed as a defender....michie has a pretty talented swag of midfielders to compete against 

[Vogon Poetry 2,095]

15 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

If a club takes Grimes it is because he is an FA and they get him for free.  I doubt they would trade for him. 

I doubt we'd ask for anything. 

[Adzman 2,154]

Another strong outing from Newton. I just can't figure out if he has it in him to go up another gear. If he could he would be a very handy player for the demons .

[jimcor 212]

16 hours ago, ProDee said:

Grimes isn't good enough, but where has this myth that he "lacks a yard" come from ?  His pace is fine. 

And, at least he can kick with either foot.  I've just come back from the 'G watching one-footed player after another butcher the ball.  Kent, Tyson, Viney, Wagner, Frost, etc should all be instructed in the off-season to develop their non-natural foot.  I think Grimes is worth another couple of games before the decision is made.

[What 18,810]

Weed will debut vs Carlton, play the last 2 games.

O Mac did it last season and he was about as ready as Weed is now.

[Demonland 73,218]

SHARP TEETH by KC from Casey 

The Casey Scorpions ventured into the northern suburbs and picked up an easy four premiership points over lowly Coburg at Piranha Park. Despite their early inaccuracy when they kicked 2.9 to a single goal in the first quarter, the Scorps were as ferocious as the fish that their hosts' stadium was named after, ripping into them with sharp teeth and powerful jaws and forcing them into submission well before half time.
 
The result was of course, a foregone conclusion from almost the very start. The Lions are a stand-alone club with very few stars and sitting in the bottom quarter of the VFL ladder while the Scorpions had 16 AFL listed players on the park. They were strong enough to have the luxury of a couple of Demons running around with the development league team in the curtain raiser along with some very solid VFL types such as Jimmy Munro. Kicking with the wind, they were wasteful in the opening despite dominating at the stoppages but it was their second quarter that destroyed the home side.
 
Through the good play of Dean Terlich and emerging young forward Sam Weideman, the Scorpions dominated the second quarter against the wind and then sealed the matter with eight goals to one in the third term. With the field at the top of the competition bunched together tightly, the team's percentage-boosting 11th win for the season was as welcome as it was vital.
 
The team had it all for this level of VFL competition starting with the experienced cool heads of Lynden Dunn, Colin Garland, Jack Grimes, Dean Terlich and Cam Pedersen and the strength of Jake Spencer in the ruck. The onballers were led by Ben Kennedy and Ben Newton who were in everything but there were plenty of others in a most dominant midfield which at various times included Grimes, Christian Salem, Clayton Oliver, Jack Trengove and Viv Michie. 
 
It was little wonder that the home side was overwhelmed. Melbourne has some interesting prospects for the future with Weideman shining in a key forward role with strong marking, good kicking and unselfish play and rookie Joel Smith who played his best game to date. 
 
Casey is also blooding its own youngsters. Red headed Declan Keilty was good down back and justified his selection to the State Combine screening in October (along with Development League ruckman Oscar McInerney) and Ed Morris and Angus Scott were lively.
 
Football fans always like looking forward to the emergence of young key forwards. After a few weeks below par, Sam Weideman showed why the Demons pressed so hard to draft him last year. The other piece of good news is the development of young Clayton Oliver who continues to rack up big numbers and if I'm not mistaken, might have grown a little since he was picked up early in the same draft.
 
The Scorpions play host to Essendon in another night match on Saturday in what promises to be a match of significance for the club.
 
Casey Scorpions 2.9.21 6.12.48 14.17.101 16.20.116
 
Coburg 1.0.6 3.0.18 4.0.24 6.2.38
 
Goals
 
Casey Scorpions Terlich Weideman 3 Michie Neal-Bullen 2 D Collis Kennedy Pedersen Scott J Smith Trengove
 
Coburg Saad 3 Hill Posar Ronke
 
Best
 
Casey Scorpions Newton Michie Neal-Bullen Weideman Terlich Keilty
 
Coburg Lehmann Fox Hunt Featherstone Kovacevic Gregory
 
Statistics 
 
Lynden Dunn 20 disposals 9 kicks 11 handballs 5 marks 2 tackles 74 dream team points
Colin Garland 17 disposals 11 kicks 6 handballs 6 marks 5 tackles 78 dream team points
Jack Grimes 2 behinds 40 disposals 16 kicks 24 handballs 7 marks 4 tackles 135 dream team points
Liam Hulett 1 behind 10 disposals 5 kicks 5 handballs 3 marks 32 dream team points
Ben Kennedy 1 goal 2 behinds 40 disposals 15 kicks 25 handballs 1 marks 3 tackles 116 dream team points
Viv Michie 2 goals 31 disposals 23 kicks 8 handballs 9 marks 2 tackles 133 dream team points
Alex Neal-Bullen 2 goals 3 behinds 31 disposals 15 kicks 16 handballs 6 marks 5 tackles 128 dream team points
Ben Newton 34 disposals 20 kicks 14 handballs 11 marks 5 tackles 135 dream team points
Clayton Oliver 37 disposals 11 kicks 26 handballs 5 marks 8 tackles 3 hit outs 135 dream team points
Cam Pedersen 1 goal 4 behinds 21 disposals 11 kicks 10 handballs 7 marks 13 tackles 16 hit outs 153 dream team points
Christian Salem 16 disposals 9 kicks 7 handballs 4 marks 6 tackles 78 dream team points
Joel Smith 1 goal 1 behind 15 disposals 8 kicks 7 handballs 4 marks 1 tackle 61 dream team points
Jake Spencer 11 disposals 2 kicks 9 handballs 3 tackles 28 hit outs 65 dream team points
Dean Terlich 3 goals 1 behind 24 disposals 16 kicks 8 handballs 9 marks 3 tackles 122 dream team points
Jack Trengove 1 goal 1 behind 29 disposals 9 kicks 20 handballs 3 marks 13 tackles 1 hit out 133 dream team points
Sam Weideman 3 goals 1 behind 14 disposals 10 kicks 4 handballs 9 marks 1 tackles 88 dream team points
 
The Casey Scorpions Development League team continued their improved form of the past month and now find themselves in strong contention for the finals.
 
Casey Scorpions 1.3.9 6.11.47 8.14.62 12.22.94
 
Coburg 2.4.16 2.4.16 5.9.39 6.9.45
 
Goals
 
Casey Scorpions Baker Di Pasquale 2 Ferreira Freeman Fritsch Hannon Daniel Johnston Kennedy-Harris McDonald Munro
 
Coburg Staples 3 Merlo Valeri Wunhym
 
Best
 
Casey Scorpions Munro Vander Haar Kennedy-Harris Wyatt Moncrieff Ferreira
 
Coburg Corigliano Staples Sutherland Free Stillman Tarczon
 

[What 18,810]

Weed 14 disposals, 9 marks, 3 goals.    Handy.