NATIONAL DRAFT PICKS 3 & 7

[Chris 2,892]

you just made me cringe 9 times in a row

Could have easily added McLean, Sylvia, Watts, Scully and Trengove too

Harsh on Trengove, without the injury he had the signs of being very good.

[H_T 3,036]

In the first few picks all this "cloak and dagger" stuff is silly. The draft order is now set. Nobody can do anything about who we pick at 3 bar Carlton and Brisbane. We will just rank the players in order and take the best available at 7. We are not going to let the player we want go at 3 with the hope they get to 7, that would be dumb having gone to all the trouble and cost of getting 3.

And I don't think we will necessarily take a tall for the sake of it. We'll take the best available. If that's a tall so be it. The way Hawthorn structure their forward line is just to have as many goal kickers as they can in there. Doesn't matter about size. Even Roughy plays a lot around the ground. They succeed because they are unpredictable and don't have a go to target. They are arguably better without Buddy.

Our danger with Hogan is putting all our eggs in one basket. It can go horribly wrong as it did for WCE in the GF. We need a team and system that kicks goals and a set formula of "two talls" is yesterdays philosophy I reckon.

Best available. Players able to play multiple positions and roles. That's what we should be aiming for.

And I reckon we've got the second tall on our list already in Tom McDonald. His kicking is an issue but no more so than coming out of the backline. He can run, mark and finds the ball. I think he will play forward a lot next year.

And Carlton's way forward in structuring their forward line is to trade out and get rid of their leading goal kickers.

In fact, here's a funny read http://titusoreily.com/carlton-confident-of-being-player-free-by-2018 from Titus O'Reily .

I feel for Brendan Bolton.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

I had a bit of a think about forward lines last night, and I think that versatility is very important. By that I don't mean that being able to swap your CHB and CHF, for example, but instead that your set forward line is able to function in a number of different ways depending on the situation.

For example, in the Grand Final Hawthorn kicked a winning score with only 1 goal between Roughead, Bruest, Puopolo and Hale. They got their goals from Rioli, Smith and Gunston instead, and in the Prelim they got their goals from Roughead, Rioli and Schoenmakers. Bruest kicked 6 in the semi!

You are right about West Coast, who placed a lot of eggs in the Kennedy basket. Once Frawley got him, they were out of ideas. Hawthorn were able to neutralise the long ball forward with Roughead and Schoenmakers (plus Hale) and then allow the smaller, quicker players to break forward into space, like Rioli, Smith or even Gunston.

What we need to do, as a forward line, is to compete for the long ball (even if we don't mark it) and then have a variety of options who can win the ball in general ground level play. We only need the talls to compete for a long kick, not mark it, but then after that everyone's a midfielder. The question is, how many players do we need to compete for that kick? I think that we need two players to compete, because the workload (and risk) for one key forward is too much. But that doesn't mean that it has to be a big three pronged forward line like West Coast's, but it could just be a resting ruckman type.

It could even be Frost. Not because he's a a skillful high marking player but he is athletic enough to get to a lot of contests and strong enough to disrupt the opposition's defenders and bring the ball to ground. The role doesn't require someone to be a superstar, or even very good. You just need someone who works hard and stops the oppositions taking intercept marks. In that role, Dawes (despite how much he is maligned) is actually perfectly fine.

The idea of drawing defenders away from your main key forward is slightly outdated, because there's almost always an extra defender anyway, no matter who it is being kicked to. Plus forwards very rarely get to lead at the ball carrier from deep in the forward line like they used to. So the key is being able to bring the ball to ground and then having players that can win it when it gets there. If you can have running, crumbing players who are good enough to mark when they get a run at the ball, then you require their defenders to guard them in the air, which will create more opportunities at ground level.

That just sounds like good old fashioned football to me.

Kick the ball long and direct to the forwards (who must be in the forward line and not up on a wing), if they mark it then great if they don't then have crumbers at their feet.

As you know, this is something I've been calling for since 2007.

[Gator 17,261]

I haven't followed juniors this year, however, from a purely theoretical point of view, if Curnow is as good as touted and plays the Stringer type role he must be our choice at pick 3.

Or Francis if they see the same type of potential and rate him higher.

After more research and deeper thinking I've changed my mind.

It makes perfect sense to take the class midfielder in the draft. Hopefully, it's the last time we'll be in a position to do so. We lack outside class and Parish has that in spades.

Essendon also need midfield class and they must have been mightily disappointed when they saw we'd managed to wrangle pick 3.

Parish at pick 3 and I suspect one of Curnow or perhaps Weideman at 7.

This will leave a developing midfield of Viney, Tyson, Salem, Brayshaw, Petracca, Stretch and Parish to complement Jones, Vince and hopefully Trengove.

That aint no third world midfield no more.

[Demon Disciple 11,802]

Yep that's the ticket. 3mins of video footage to decide our whole drafting strategy.

The footy dept has done nothing all year but has since watched youtube and is now ready for the draft.

Its probably fair to say that the footy dept worked hard to get pick 3 becuase it knows exactly who it wants.

To be fair, if we still had Prendergast as recruiting manager, i'd prefer we went the method of picking based on highlights. However, Taylor and his team seem to have some idea when it comes to identifying talent. I'll be happy with whoever they pick up, given they're the one's who have been looking at these kids for a good 2-3 years now.

[Demon Disciple 11,802]

That just sounds like good old fashioned football to me.

Kick the ball long and direct to the forwards (who must be in the forward line and not up on a wing), if they mark it then great if they don't have crumbers at their feet.

As you know, this is something I've been calling for since 2007.

It's called simple football. And with quite a few of the blokes on our list, simple would be best.

[Slartibartfast 16,937]

and they must have been mightily disappointed when they saw we'd managed to wrangle pick 3.

Have I missed something? Was there a statement that GCS didn't want Parish at 3? Makes no difference to Essendon if it's them or us taking Parish assuming GCS were going to take him and I've yet to read anything saying we are.

I'm glad we've got pick 3, not that we've trumped Essendon. Couldn't give a rats about them.

[Dee Dee 1,103]

In the first few picks all this "cloak and dagger" stuff is silly. The draft order is now set. Nobody can do anything about who we pick at 3 bar Carlton and Brisbane. We will just rank the players in order and take the best available at 7. We are not going to let the player we want go at 3 with the hope they get to 7, that would be dumb having gone to all the trouble and cost of getting 3.

And I don't think we will necessarily take a tall for the sake of it. We'll take the best available. If that's a tall so be it. The way Hawthorn structure their forward line is just to have as many goal kickers as they can in there. Doesn't matter about size. Even Roughy plays a lot around the ground. They succeed because they are unpredictable and don't have a go to target. They are arguably better without Buddy.

Our danger with Hogan is putting all our eggs in one basket. It can go horribly wrong as it did for WCE in the GF. We need a team and system that kicks goals and a set formula of "two talls" is yesterdays philosophy I reckon.

Best available. Players able to play multiple positions and roles. That's what we should be aiming for.

And I reckon we've got the second tall on our list already in Tom McDonald. His kicking is an issue but no more so than coming out of the backline. He can run, mark and finds the ball. I think he will play forward a lot next year.

I'm sure many of you remember the StKilda years with Tony Lockett, greatest full forward of all time bla bla bla.

It sure got the Saints a long way didn't it!

Hogan may well become as spectacular as Lockett but without multiple forward line options we probably won't be any more successful than StKilda.

[Demonated 252]

Yep that's the ticket. 3mins of video footage to decide our whole drafting strategy.

The footy dept has done nothing all year but has since watched youtube and is now ready for the draft.

Its probably fair to say that the footy dept worked hard to get pick 3 becuase it knows exactly who it wants.

That's fair, but we sorely lack x-factor. How reliant on Salem are we for a bit of polish and skill? We have basically zero versatility when it comes to having mids who can play elsewhere. Our three best young mids- Viney, Tyson and Brayshaw looks like they all are suited to being clearance and inside mids with only Brayshaw looking like he can also incorporate an effective outside role. Nat Jones is more effective as an inside mid. Like I said it was based on limited knowledge but he is touted as a pure midfielder when I think we should be taking more dynamic players. Fyfe, Bontemelli and Stringer were seen as these versatile players with no set role as juniors. We are almost there for inside grunt work but have absolutely nothing in the mould of versatility and damaging utilities. Petracca is our best shot at that and he hasn't played a game.

I expect that we will take Parish and I have to trust the recruiting staff, but I'm not salivating at him as a prospect, just my opinion. We must understand that AFL clubs actually get it wrong just as often as we as fans do, even the good clubs. No matter how much work they put in, it's impossible to project how someone will actually fare in the league. Credit goes to the club for the last 2 drafts though, I can't ignore that.

[Gator 17,261]

Have I missed something? Was there a statement that GCS didn't want Parish at 3? Makes no difference to Essendon if it's them or us taking Parish assuming GCS were going to take him and I've yet to read anything saying we are.

I'm glad we've got pick 3, not that we've trumped Essendon. Couldn't give a rats about them.

Where did I say I got my jollies from trumping Essendon ? Where did I say I "give a rats about them". I merely expressed an opinion that they would have been displeased we wrangled pick 3, because there's more likelihood (in my opinion) that Melbourne takes Parish than Gold Coast.

I've seen a number of phantom drafts, which, yes, I know, hardly rates as irrefutable evidence, that had Gold Coast taking Aaron Francis at 3. But, once again, yes, it would have been of no surprise if Gold Coast had taken him.

Parish is considered the draft's class midfielder. Melbourne needs the draft's class midfielder. Essendon needs the draft's class midfielder. Maybe Gold Coast do too, but with Ablett, Swallow, O'Meara, Prestia, Rischitelli, the impressive Touk Miller, Lonergan, Jack Martin and Aaron Hall playing more midfield there's reason to think the Suns might not have had Parish rubber stamped.

And no, you haven't read anywhere where it says Melbourne will take Parish. Maybe I need to explain, I'm surmising on an opinion board.

But do me a favour, next time you see me posting keep walking. It's boring and tiresome.

[Slartibartfast 16,937]

Where did I say I got my jollies from trumping Essendon ? Where did I say I "give a rats about them". I merely expressed an opinion that they would have been displeased we wrangled pick 3, because there's more likelihood (in my opinion) that Melbourne takes Parish than Gold Coast.

I've seen a number of phantom drafts, which, yes, I know, hardly rates as irrefutable evidence, that had Gold Coast taking Aaron Francis at 3. But, once again, yes, it would have been of no surprise if Gold Coast had taken him.

Parish is considered the draft's class midfielder. Melbourne needs the draft's class midfielder. Essendon needs the draft's class midfielder. Maybe Gold Coast do too, but with Ablett, Swallow, O'Meara, Prestia, Rischitelli, the impressive Touk Miller, Lonergan, Jack Martin and Aaron Hall playing more midfield there's reason to think the Suns might not have had Parish rubber stamped.

And no, you haven't read anywhere where it says Melbourne will take Parish. Maybe I need to explain, but I'm surmising on an opinion board.

But do me a favour, next time you see me posting keep walking. It's boring and tiresome.

Strange response to a genuine question. Put me on ignore, you'll be happier. I'll continue to read your posts, I like them.

[monoccular 17,345]

you just made me cringe 9 times in a row

Could have easily added McLean, Sylvia, Watts, Scully and Trengove too

Very harsh and wrong on Trengove, whatever you think of the others. I really hope he makes a full recovery from his foot fractures and shows you and the other soothsayers up.

The point you make is a good one. It basically comes down to ball movement into the forward line. At the few training sessions I attended this year, in the drills, the only players leading out from the goal square were Hogan, Dawes or Pedersen. For mine it was predictable footy, bigs lead, smalls crumb. There's no reason why a mid/small can't lead out if the delivery is good.

The Hawks have shown just this. As others have stated, they are probably better without Frankenstein and just having the more versatile Roughead. They just have so many goalkicking options - one may be held and another pops up.

[old55 22,975]

Have I missed something? Was there a statement that GCS didn't want Parish at 3? Makes no difference to Essendon if it's them or us taking Parish assuming GCS were going to take him and I've yet to read anything saying we are.

I'm glad we've got pick 3, not that we've trumped Essendon. Couldn't give a rats about them.

I think it's fair to assume that GCS don't see a standout at 3 like we do - otherwise they probably wouldn't make that trade. I can only assume that GCS rate (at least) 4 players roughly equal at 3-6 OR they have someone in mind that they believe no-one else has and therefore don't think they are significantly disadvantaged by the downgrade.

[John Demonic 5,598]

I know this isn't strictly pick related, but where does Sam Frost fit into this for us? Can he play forward and influence whether we need to develop another traditional CHF ? or is he strictly a shut down defender?

I'm of the opinion that the half back and half forward lines need to be somewhat interchangeable with the midfield and we should be working towards having efficient rebounding possessions and efficient shots at goal. Obviously we need to retain some height and strength to shut down opponents or contest forward line marks but that is where i think we should develop inbetween players who are neither traditional forwards/backmen nor traditional mids.

The thing about Fyfe is that I think he's one of the best players in the league by virtue of being the first of his kind, If he was competing with many other similar bodied players that are now developing he'd be one of many standard a graders, and soon will be.

[Bay Riffin 1,454]

I know this isn't strictly pick related, but where does Sam Frost fit into this for us? Can he play forward and influence whether we need to develop another traditional CHF ? or is he strictly a shut down defender?

I'm of the opinion that the half back and half forward lines need to be somewhat interchangeable with the midfield and we should be working towards having efficient rebounding possessions and efficient shots at goal. Obviously we need to retain some height and strength to shut down opponents or contest forward line marks but that is where i think we should develop inbetween players who are neither traditional forwards/backmen nor traditional mids.

The thing about Fyfe is that I think he's one of the best players in the league by virtue of being the first of his kind, If he was competing with many other similar bodied players that are now developing he'd be one of many standard a graders, and soon will be.

I would have though our first aim is to get a full year out of Sam Frost and see where his best position is. He was played forward early and was quite effective I thought. Had pace and toughness.

[Dinosaur Rover 197]

CHF is the toughest position to play.

I doubt Frost is ready and prefer he consolidate a back role.

I want your opinion of Burton who with Curnow provides big bodied fwd / mids.

[CityDee 738]

Pick 3 would see us take either Weitering or Schache if availiable ( tmac could go forward ) . If not id consider taking the tallest mid available at 3 from the top bracket of players. Is curnow a genuine chance to play as a tall mid? Matthew Kennedy is another we could take at 3.

Pick 7 would be for a key forward if we didn't take one at 3 . Seems to be slim pickings and not a lot of footage but Weideman seems to be the man.

I'd also seriously consider taking Mitchell Hibberd at 7 and then taking a chance at pick 46 on someone like Harry Mackay at 200cm as a forward second ruck.

Its a shame we don't have a pick at around 20 - this Hibberd kid is a natural, strong in the tackle like Brayshaw and at 191 cm's is the right size midfielder that we need to compete against the best, if he slides to 46 I'd be stoked.

Hibberd confirmed why recruiters like him as a possible recruit with a range of strong results at the combine. His long-distance running and endurance base was on show in the beep test by finishing second overall with a level 15.4 run, while he also placed in the top-three for the time trial (10:02 minutes). The Tasmanian also won the kicking test, showing poise on both feet, and was among the leading performers in the goalkicking test. Hibberd missed out on last year's draft as he recovered from injury, but has made up for lost time this season as a 19-year-old.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

Harsh on Trengove, without the injury he had the signs of being very good.

yeah but you know what I mean, still a high pick that at this point has not delivered

who knows though, he might be about to unleash 5 years of quality footy

[bing181 9,113]

Of all the names being thrown about, Parish is the one who would never have fallen to Pick 6. Given that moving us up to 3/ish was clearly one of the main aims of the trade period, I just think that Parish is the player we're after.

I know that big-bodied mids are all the rage, and for good reason. But as has been commented upon already here, we lack outside class - it's precisely what our recently-departed Pick 4 was supposed to provide.

[Deecisive 1,709]

we gave up a couple of later picks to move down to 10 to 7, so one would assume that they have a player or two they are after who is unlikely to be there at 10. hmm I truly hope they get their men.

[thevil1 421]

So, you think "scumbagland" means Collingwood only. I thought it was a collective noun used to describe Collingwood, Carlton and Richmond. At least, it ought to be. Can Demonland make it so?

I'm with it so long as it refers to essenscum also.

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

It seems that Parish at 3 and Francis or Curnow at 7 would be a bloody good result for us.

It's possible.

[manny100 1,411]

We have loaded up big on mids and have Trengove returning. Melksham can play the line breaking outside role as well as inside as can Salem. Stretch is the quick outside player. I now think we will go best available at 3 which will be either Francis or Curnow. Francis is very competitive and will be a gun 3rd tall back who can swing forward and mid.

Aaron Francis (10/8/1997 191cm, 81kg. West Adelaide)

Tall defender/forward/midfielder

AFL biography: Tall forward/defender with good athleticism and game sense. Knows when to come off his opponent and impact the contest. Makes smart decisions with his disposal and consistently breaks down opposition attacks by winning the ball back in the air. Also a dangerous forward, he kicked four goals against Western Australian in an outstanding performance. Averaged 15.7 possessions and 5.7 marks across six games at the NAB AFL Under-18 Championships winning All-Australian U18 honours. Member of the NAB AFL Academy.

"He's an interesting player. His game against Vic Metro at AAMI Stadium this year was clearly the best game of football at this level I've seen. He caught every ball that went inside defensive 50 and just dominated the game. I think he'll end up at playing at either end of the ground, as a third defender or someone who could go forward and kick some goals. He'll go into the midfield at some points, but he needs to get his running capacity up a bit more. He has the speed and the agility and the power, but his endurance will need some time and some work. He's a very quiet kid, he doesn't say a lot, but he's a different person when he's out on the ground. I had our runner come back to me a few times and tell me Aaron was running the show out there."

Brenton Phillips, SA talent manager.

​

Charlie Curnow (3/2/1991 191cm, 95kg. Geelong Falcons)

Tall forward/midfielder

AFL biography: Powerful tall forward/midfielder who is extremely athletic, strong overhead and dangerous near goals. Showed potential for the NAB AFL Academy against VFL opposition earlier this year before a dislocated knee kept him out of the NAB AFL Under-18 Championships. Returned to TAC Cup football with Geelong Falcons in the last four matches, kicking 13 goals and showcasing his potential as a marking forward. Brother of Carlton's Ed.

"When the AFL clubs came around at the start of the year - without knowing what was coming ahead - I said Charlie could potentially be the No. 1 pick. He won't be, because he missed the national championships and there are some fantastic kids around - but I haven't changed my mind that much. He's the youngest of five kids and a bit of a free spirit. He goes to uni and loves his surfing, but he has massive upside. He's a fantastic athlete - he has some unbelievable times under his belt on the athletics track and he's a good high jumper, but he's still learning how to use it on the footy field. We've had him play full-back, centre half-back, centre half-forward and full-forward for us, but at the start of the year when he was really fit we had him playing as a ruck rover. He's carrying a bit of puppy fat and freaks the clubs out a bit, but keep saying hang on, he's an 18-year-old kid. Once he gets to a club he'll knuckle down and work hard. He's got massive upside."

Michael Turner, Geelong Falcons talent manager

[mo64 5,597]

We have loaded up big on mids and have Trengove returning. Melksham can play the line breaking outside role as well as inside as can Salem. Stretch is the quick outside player. I now think we will go best available at 3 which will be either Francis or Curnow. Francis is very competitive and will be a gun 3rd tall back who can swing forward and mid.

Not interested in a gun 3rd tall back or a swingman. Just give me a key forward or gun mid.

Francis' 2nd game against Vic Metro was bog ordinary. He wasn't allowed to float on his own intercepting marks. I'm not sold on him.

[Lil_red_fire_engine 10,881]

Everyone seems to think the top 7 is set aside from order. That is very rarely the case one month out. We still lack outside polish and its not like Parish is small he is a standard mid size and by all reports also fits the competitor non negotiable we appear to be carrying through. If he is the best pure mid I would snap him up at 3 and just take the player we think has the highest ceiling at 7 that is available and back in our development process to make them realise their potential.