POST MATCH DISCUSSION - Round 18

[Webber 10,061]

Dawes describes himself as a battler, and that's what he is. In the last two weeks he's been back to his best - he's been holding marks, and he's used his strength to break tackles. If he can continue to do that, he definitely adds something to the side. No doubt it'd be nice if he could hit the scoreboard more, but I can live without that so long as he contributes in other ways.

Dawes takes a comparable number of marks to 'second tier' marking forwards such as Schulz, Roughead, Petrie et al. These players all take 4-6 marks per game on average (Dawes 4.7). Elite marking forwards such as Riewoldt and Cloke take in the order of 7-8 marks per game on average. When he was in poor form he still took a minimum of 2 marks a game.

The criticism of him goes beyond reasonable IMO.

Once again Nasher, using facts to obscure the patent reality is just plain silly. He doesn't take any marks, lay any tackles, kick any goals or in fact do anything of any value. He's a liability, and I know you've been reading Demonland, so you should know that.

[3Dee 1,153]

Jetta to poll in the golden fist, GO DEES!

[titan_uranus 22,365]

To those who say 'Collingwood weren't that good' - have you considered that they weren't that good because of our pressure?

Our pressure today was the best it's been since the Geelong game. Funnily enough, we also made WB, Richmond and GC look bad with our pressure too.

[DeeSpencer 23,134]

I'm sorry. I don't want to keep bagging players, but Dawes was terrible. Took two contested marks in the last when it was pretty much over. The players look up now and actually look for another option when they see him leading at them. He doesn't take enough marks, impact the contests enough and rjay's right. His man usually gets the ball. I've watched Dawes closely for the past month and have decided we need another KPF. Pedersen is a better player than Dawes, but isn't as aggressive. Neither are consistent foils for Hogan though.

Terrible first half sitting and waiting for the ball and costing us goals for it. Much better 2nd half, not just the junk time marks but some better competing and a nice spoil on the far wing. Did well in the ruck considering his limitations.

If we had a very good 2nd ruck/forward - Pedersen is better but still not perfect I agree - then I think we could and would try Vanders, Watts, Petracca as medium marking players to go with Hogan. Similar to the way the Hawks just have a 2nd ruck, Roughy and then use Gunston, Breust and even Rioli to win 1 on 1's in the air. Vanders and Watts did well today in taking up the slack and with more speed and skill in the side the reliance on tall targets will diminish further.

I'm sure the club know this and King is a potential option worth the gamble as a rookie pick. The focus has probably been on beefing up the tall defenders (O Mc and Frost) and of course on getting midfield talent in.

I'm sure we will make an investment on a key forward or 2nd ruck/forward in this draft and it will be very important for the future.

But for the present I really hope Dawes takes some confidence from his 2nd half and makes attacking the ball again his priority.

[Nasher 33,047]

"Collingwood were terrible" yeah? And..?

Anytime we beat someone the majority of opinion is that team were terrible. Notice a theme?

You mean to say... that teams who lose are usually terrible?

Revolutionary!

You'd think anyone who's watched the MFC in the last 10 years wouldn't need that to be explained to them...

[DeeSpencer 23,134]

You mean to say... that teams who lose are usually terrible?

Revolutionary!

You'd think anyone who's watched the MFC in the last 10 years wouldn't need that to be explained to them...

Brisbane were flat out terrible. Gold Coast were poor considering the expectation.

But our other 4 wins have been 3 teams in the 8 and one team fighting for it and we've heard how poorly they've played and I don't blame supporters for getting angry about it.

I agree with whoever said it should be our pressure. We should take beating a team who played poorly as a compliment not an insult.

I'd beat teams who played poorly every week! I bet Tigers fans are enjoying how poorly the Hawks played last night.

[What 18,810]

"Collingwood were terrible" yeah? And..?

Anytime we beat someone the majority of opinion is that team were terrible. Notice a theme?

Couldn't agree more

its so bloody annoying.. Its always cos the other team sucked its never that we won fairly and squarely or that we forced them into playing below par

Some people just cant seem to give us credit

[ILLDieADemon 804]

Good win for the fans.

Even better because its over Collingwood

[SaberFang 7,141]

Couldn't agree more

its so bloody annoying.. Its always cos the other team sucked its never that we won fairly and squarely or that we forced them into playing below par

Some people just cant seem to give us credit

In fairness, we've been rubbish for a long time. I understand the instant reaction is "well the other team were off their game," but it's clearly been noted at the club itself based on some comments from the skip.

[BarnDee 284]

was ol mate joffa there today with his golden coat ? ppphhhttttt

[Jesse Christ 2,884]

Couldn't agree more

its so bloody annoying.. Its always cos the other team sucked its never that we won fairly and squarely or that we forced them into playing below par

Some people just cant seem to give us credit

Haters gonna hate

[UltimateDemon 17]

Great win today Dees!!

I loved that the players planned the game, played hard for all 4 quarters, scored more accurately and our youngsters are really developing!

It's exciting to watch and I can't wait for the years to come

[pitmaster 3,063]

I hven't watched the replay yet but I intend taking particular note of GRIMES when I do.

At the game I thought he played his best game for us for a long while and was a very useful contributor - solid saving marks made good position and used the ball well and was a strong element in our defensive structure.

Then I get on here and found people bagging him and my immediate reaction is to note who the critics are and I resolve not to regard their opinions as of any value in future. As they say in the classics ' you know who you are'.

So here's my promise. I will thoroughly review the game for the sheer pleasure of it, but if I am wrong and Grimes was no good I will post my apology. If my opinion is confirmed I will name names because the negativity and rushes to judgement on this site sometimes get up my nose.

My best: Vince (obviously) Watts (another who cops unwarranted #@$% on this site and elsewhere), Gawn, Jones, Grimes

[Rod Grinter Riot Squad 5,636]

I hven't watched the replay yet but I intend taking particular note of GRIMES when I do.

At the game I thought he played his best game for us for a long while and was a very useful contributor - solid saving marks made good position and used the ball well and was a strong element in our defensive structure.

Then I get on here and found people bagging him and my immediate reaction is to note who the critics are and I resolve not to regard their opinions as of any value in future. As they say in the classics ' you know who you are'.

So here's my promise. I will thoroughly review the game for the sheer pleasure of it, but if I am wrong and Grimes was no good I will

post my apology. If my opinion is confirmed I will name names because the negativity and rushes to judgement on this site sometimes get up my nose.

My best: Vince (obviously) Watts (another who cops unwarranted #@$% on this site and elsewhere), Gawn, Jones, Grimes

I was also almost surprised by the bagging of Grimes, sure he put on one the full (with his left) but I also thought he was quite good

[CBDees 3,162]

I hven't watched the replay yet but I intend taking particular note of GRIMES when I do.

At the game I thought he played his best game for us for a long while and was a very useful contributor - solid saving marks made good position and used the ball well and was a strong element in our defensive structure.

Then I get on here and found people bagging him and my immediate reaction is to note who the critics are and I resolve not to regard their opinions as of any value in future. As they say in the classics ' you know who you are'.

So here's my promise. I will thoroughly review the game for the sheer pleasure of it, but if I am wrong and Grimes was no good I will post my apology. If my opinion is confirmed I will name names because the negativity and rushes to judgement on this site sometimes get up my nose.

My best: Vince (obviously) Watts (another who cops unwarranted #@$% on this site and elsewhere), Gawn, Jones, Grimes

I also acknowledged the sub in my voting. Well done for upgraded rookie, Harmes for his first goal.

[Binmans PA 26,110]

We talk about DE but how about marking efficiency? He fronted up but the number of contested marks he drops when he has the ball in a favourable position are astonishing. And I noticed on at least four occasions today - just from television footage - where his teammates had lost confidence in him and not honoured a lead and passed it to him or waited until no other option presented.

Spot on. Exactly what I saw. He seemed to grow in confidence throughout the game though. I thought it was even more visible at the game that his team mates have no confidence in his ability to take a mark one-on-one.

Yeah it happened, to be fair it wasn't all the Collingwood supporters (I was there with two), just the usual lower class missing teeth ones.

Just got back, the game was scrappy and we were OK, Collingwood were pathetic. We played better on Queens Bday but I'd take a win over a good performance any time.

The thing that I loved the most today was Nathan Jones.

When you're the best player you get taken for granted some times but being at the game you just couldn't avoid this blokes importance to the side, from his ball winning ability to his on field leadership to that final show of solidarity (Yes I'm a Goodes supporter, please don't boo me!) It was a defining day for the bloke and it shouldn't be glossed over.

A TRUE CAPTAIN.

SHOWING TRUE LEADERSHIP.

FINALLY!

There's no way we played better on QB. We played in two ten minute bursts in that game. People are too seduced by that game. We were hopeless for large patches. Today we put four quarters of effort in, although you could argue we went missing for the first fifteen minutes of the second quarter and that's it.

I noticed Lumumba was booed a lot early on. I don't recall that happening when we last played them. Anyone remember?

They booed him on QB...

[Binmans PA 26,110]

Good win for the fans.

Even better because its over Collingwood

I was doing so much antagonising in the members. Loved it. Half the people around me were either giving me dirty looks or lip. I just kept saying 'have a good weekend'.

[Trisul 636]

Rohan Connollys votes from The Age

Votes

Bernie Vince (Melb) … ..8

Nathan Jones (Melb)……7

Dane Swan (Coll)……...7

Jack Watts (Melb)………7

Jack Viney (Melb)………6

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-match-centre/melbourne-inflict-collingwoods-sixth-straight-loss-with-37point-win-at-mcg-20150801-gipfka.html#ixzz3hYuXjjbX

Hah! The printed version reads:

Bernie Vince (Melbourne)….8

Nathan Jones (Melbourne)……7

Dane Swan (Melbourne)……7

Jack Watts (Melbourne)……7

Jack Viney (Melbourne)……6

[P-man 13,168]

'Grossly unfair'?

It's not like we lost and we have 4 or 5 players lining up to be dropped.

If Salem is fit and ready to come back in, it's either Michie or Grimes, and at least Grimes got his hands on the ball while he was on the ground.

It will be disappointing, but not 'grossly unfair'.

Okay, let's just say unfair then.

Yes, he and Grimes stood out today. But when he has been given the rare chance to actually string some games together, he's been okay, e.g. towards the end of last season. If you're not a seasoned pro, it can be a lot to ask someone to immediately adjust to the speed of the game.

I was hoping for more today and he may once again go through the revolving door, which is a pity. I have seen glimpses that make me think he could be a player.

[Dees2014 2,377]

Inclined to think their arrogance cost them the game at selection. "Oh, it's Melbourne, a guaranteed win so we can finally drop Jesse White!"

"Oh, it's Melbourne, Elliott's not ready to come back but we'll make him the sub and he'll still find a way to kick 3 goals!"

Haven't you noticed that every club we beat goes into crisis management from the very fact we beat them! You watch Eddie this week.

It is fun to watch!

[Dees2014 2,377]

I agree. White probably would've been a safer bet, and Reid was in the VFL and Goldsack withdrawn. Once McDonald got hold of Moore (in his 4th game or whatever) they were hapless. Still, I thought Pendlebury was unusually average, looked genuinely slow and got caught a couple of times. I seem to recall other clubs underestimating us in their selections

I think Pendlebury was down because of the way we played him. Several crunch tackles in the first half really hurt him. A lesson to us all on how to play elite mids. I seem to remember we did the same to Selwood at Geelong earlier in the year, and look what that brought us.

[Dees2014 2,377]

Loved this from Magpie Big Footy...

"On what metrics are you judging Bucks? I don't believe he was hired to beat Melbourne. His goal is too take us to a premiership. Given that, I would say he is tracking well..."

Hope they persist with that attitude. We will have great fun in the next ten years!!!

[monoccular 16,072]

What is a "cakewalk", pies (mixing my bakery metaphors)?

[Mgdee 319]

We're still coming from a long way back, if you can't get excited or give us any credit for a 37 point win over Collingwood then you need a new hobby.

Whingeing on Demonland is their hobby.

[Demonland 64,945]

EBBS AND FLOWS by Whispering Jack

For a tiny bit over three quarters it was a game of ebbs and flows with Melbourne holding the ascendancy for the most part after dominating the opening stanza with four goals to one. It should have been more but Jack Viney and Dom Tyson missed easy shots late in the term after Jesse Hogan nailed his second goal for the game after just 23 minutes.

That was the sort of thing that we've seen before this season with the game against the Crows at the Adelaide Oval a case in point so it came as no surprise that Collingwood was able to hit the front at the midpoint of the next quarter when Travis Varcoe goaled. At that point, we feared the worst - that the tide was turning the game in the direction of debacles like the GWS and Port Adelaide games but the Demons surprised us, regrouped and went into the main break with an eleven point lead thanks to the brilliance of Bernie Vince and emerging big man Max Gawn.

The Demons' dominance continued into the what they call the premiership quarter which for Melbourne is a concept so far embedded in its distant past as to be rendered almost meaningless. But there's a new kid on the block who might just change that one day and his name his Jesse Hogan. After a wide kick at goal spoiled what would have been a dream start to the second half, he had the presence of mind to tickle the ball of the ground after a spillage and the Demons were away. The Pies fought back but goals to Vince and another to Jack Watts who keeps getting better and better, opened up a 23 point lead before the flow of the game changed once more.

It was all Collingwood in the second half of the third term leading to heart flutters among the Demon faithful in the crowd. It was as if the fact that the team had hit the magical 60 point mark meant that everything came to a grinding halt. The tide ebbed as Collingwood clawed the deficit back to a manageable 8 points by the final break and narrowed it further thanks to a rushed behind early in the last. Then Vince re-entered the scoring fray and it was over.

Goals flowed and the opposition capitulated in a reversal of the situation when the teams met on Queens Birthday. Of course, back then it was Melbourne that was ravaged with injury. Now it was Collingwood whose main weapons were missing. No Cloke meant no seven straight goals and Tom McDonald was able to play the monster on young Darcy Moore. Once Neville Jetta shut Alex Fasolo down, the Pies had very little potency up forward. Nathan Jones did his job as usual but the most pleasing aspect of recent weeks for Melbourne is the emergence of Max Gawn towards the fringes of the elite among the competition's ruckmen and Jack Viney's growth in the midfield.

The defining aspect was that despite the presence of five first year players, Melbourne was the more experienced team in terms of games in legs - a vast difference to the week before when St. Kilda's match winners were all on the other side of thirty. That's exactly why the lamentations of many supporters and independent observers were a bit off the mark with their panic stations wrist slashing of last week. The form of young sides will always ebb and flow from week to week. The main thing is that the tide is taking you in the right direction.

Melbourne 4.4.28 6.5.41 9.6 .60 13.13.91

Collingwood 1.4.10 4.6.30 7.10.52 7.12.54

Goals

Melbourne Hogan Vince 3 Garlett 2 Harmes Howe N Jones vandenBerg Watts

Collingwood Fasolo 3 Adams Pendlebury Varcoe Witts

Best

Melbourne Vince Jones Gawn Viney Garland Watts Cross

Collingwood Swan Fasolo Varcoe Williams Adams Langdon

Changes

Melbourne Nil

Collingwood Matt Scharenberg replaced Tyson Goldsack (tight quad) in the selected side.

Injuries

Melbourne Nil

Collingwood Nil

Reports

Melbourne Nil

Collingwood Nil

Substitutions

Melbourne James Harmes replaced Viv Michie in the third quarter.

Collingwood Jamie Elliott replaced Paul Seedsman in the third quarter.

Umpires Donlon Kamolins Jeffery

Official crowd 37,894 at the MCG.