Post Match Discussion - Round 17

[3183 Dee 2,626]

So much for owing st Kilda one. How about worrying about getting our team going rather then talking smack about the opposition to the media during the week

I know - I realise that there are media obligations, but maybe just let the coaches do them. I'm sick of these ramp-ups and then a performance which is exactly the opposite. Then the obligatory photo of the team looking dejected as they go back down the race. I don't understand why this team cannot take momentum and inspiration from a game like Geelong and build the rest of the season on it. It's like [censored] Groundhog Day!

[Samael 560]

My random thoughts on the game:

• As bad as our disposal and decision making was at times, our biggest problem remains that players coming out of defence look up and have no forward line to kick to. Why are Hogan and Dawes playing in defence? It is hardly surprising that Hogan doesn't have the energy to contest in the forward line when he runs 10kms a game up and down the ground. I reckon Garlett would prefer to have some big blokes to bring the ball to ground for him as well.
• Michie is not an AFL footballer. Yes he had a few touches in the last quarter, but every disposal was backwards or sideways. There was no effort to take the game on and make something happen. Even though he has another year on his contract, he has been in the system five years, and I can't see that a sixth will make any difference.

Sorta answered your own criticism there. Nobody forward of you means you have to go sideways or backwards. At least Viv usually gets it to another MFC player. The game plan is poor. Its funny how the Casey games seem to be far more attacking with a lot less sidewards, backwards anything but forwards movement that the Melbourne team seems to revolve around.

[Samael 560]

I can't agree. Nearly 2 years in and his players don't know what to do when they get the ball. There's no cohesive game-plan to move the ball forward effectively. We also pick and choose with our intensity, while the Saints play in a far more constant fashion.

Poor bloody Hogan. He must hate playing for this mob. Whenever the ball is in the opposition's forward 50 he gets sucked up the ground to a half back flank. This is instructional as we're a stoppage team that relies upon numbers around the ball. But we over do it. Other teams hold some semblance of a forward structure, but we lose ours completely, so naturally when there's a turnover the players hold up play, while we desperately run back. We handball when we should kick and we take the wrong option regularly. We play with no freedom or flair. Teams can have a rock solid defence, but still know when to pull the trigger.

In a short time Beveridge has his team playing attacking footy. Their defensive structures may need work, but they're at least exciting their fans and winning games of footy. Richardson at the Saints also has a side far more drilled than ours.

I'm over Roos and can't wait for Godwin to take over.

Taking risks. No one is getting belted for taking a risk and mucking up. He has even managed to get that peanut Grant to contribute. And he has worked with what he inherited.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

As bad as our disposal and decision making was at times, our biggest problem remains that players coming out of defence look up and have no forward line to kick to. Why are Hogan and Dawes playing in defence? It is hardly surprising that Hogan doesn't have the energy to contest in the forward line when he runs 10kms a game up and down the ground. I reckon Garlett would prefer to have some big blokes to bring the ball to ground for him as well.

I realise I'm worse than PF about Wines but I wrote this in 2011 which refers to another post in 2007. Basically not a lot has changed in eight years and whilst all teams tend to push their forwards up the ground, when we do it it just never seems to work.

[rjay 23,995]

This. Our season is knackered. We defend and deefend and still get thumped. I would prefer to see the rest of the season devoted to taking risks. Forget the result and experiment with attacking footy. Give the players free reign, Let them make mistakes in attack (god knows they make them in our defensive game). Give them confidence to try something different. Learn from mistakes instead of being to scared to have a go. As somebody has already said inside fifty kick the goal instead of some dinky kick to a player in a "better" position. And stop handballing so much.Break the game open, the congested footy is our undoing.

I understand the sentiment 'Samuel', but it wouldn't happen even if the coaches gave them a free reign. There are too many on the list now playing for their careers so they go into their shells and play for themselves.

Unfortunately being too frightened to make mistakes only brings more mistakes

[Samael 560]

I understand the sentiment 'Samuel', but it wouldn't happen even if the coaches gave them a free reign. There are too many on the list now playing for their careers so they go into their shells and play for themselves.

Unfortunately being too frightened to make mistakes only brings more mistakes

Totally agree and that annoys the hell out of me. Surely its time for the FD to take those players that wont be there next year aside, tell them some home truths and then pick the team for the rest of the year from players who will be retained and tell them to play freestyle. Forget the game plan and just attack without fear. Roos has no fear of poor performance because he will be there next season regardless. I don't reckon the dogs, saints, and even port have better players, they just have more belief that they will be recognised for their attack, creativity and endeavor instead of their tackles or other stats. If you have the ball you can't tackle. The teams that have this sort of freedom (read what Murphy says in the little paper today) have spirit and camaraderie. The dogs lost to Geelong but made few if any unforced changes which I do not doubt gives the players confidence.

[ILLDieADemon 804]

There was a game many years ago between MFC and St Dildo where Riewoldt played and kicked 11goals. Melbourne won. A smarty called out in the last quarter when we'd clearly won: you're useless Riewoldt! It was amusing at the time.

Yep, I was at that game and thought at the time who is this Nick guy?

[old dee 22,966]

Totally agree and that annoys the hell out of me. Surely its time for the FD to take those players that wont be there next year aside, tell them some home truths and then pick the team for the rest of the year from players who will be retained and tell them to play freestyle. Forget the game plan and just attack without fear. Roos has no fear of poor performance because he will be there next season regardless. I don't reckon the dogs, saints, and even port have better players, they just have more belief that they will be recognised for their attack, creativity and endeavor instead of their tackles or other stats. If you have the ball you can't tackle. The teams that have this sort of freedom (read what Murphy says in the little paper today) have spirit and camaraderie. The dogs lost to Geelong but made few if any unforced changes which I do not doubt gives the players confidence.

I was in agreement till you got to this line "I don't reckon the dogs, saints, and even port have better players,"

IMO yes they do.

We keep trying to convince ourselves that the average ability of the list has risen significantly.

IMO it is has risen marginally we are still cursed with the ineptitude of the decade up to the end of 2013.

[Dee Dee 1,050]

There was a game many years ago between MFC and St Dildo where Riewoldt played and kicked 11goals. Melbourne won. A smarty called out in the last quarter when we'd clearly won: you're useless Riewoldt! It was amusing at the time.

Yep, I was at that game and thought at the time who is this Nick guy?

If I remember correctly he was their only goal kicker (who was our fullback)? Great football player is Nick.

I'd love to know why Tom McDonald was stuck up on the forward line.

[CityDee 738]

The first 10 minutes of the first quarter was the killer. If we had of executed skills and decision making to somewhere around afl standard we would have 3-5 more goals on the board. Confidence is up and we are in a winning position.

15 minute mark first quater - Dawes marks outside 50 southern stand flank , he ignores the longer option who is Hogan with a mismatch and kicks back into the centre square hitting stkilda's ruck lace out.

14.28 - Hogan marks at the top of the square and misses

13.10 - Vince ignores Jetta at half back as a first option handball to a free player and is tackled giving away a free kick that gives the saints an inside 50 that they waste

12.38 - Dawes marks in space on the southern stand flank kicks short to the leading Hogan at the 50 meter mark and dribbles the kick along the ground - turnover

11.28 - Dawes roves the pack after Harmes attempts the mark of the year and misses with a dribble kick 20 out dead in front

11.17 - Jones Goals

10.05 - Tyson has the ball inside 50 clear and running on the Olympic stand side, he kicks awkwardly back inside. turnover.

7.05 - Stkilda kick their first goal

Score STKilda 9 Melb 8

The game style starting positions match ups coaching did its job and allowed us enough chances to win that quarter. I'm sure Roos McCartney and Goodwin have the drills and nous to ensure the guys skills are up to par at training as we have seen with our own eyes. Match day is an issue between the ears . it has nothing to do with the coaching in my opinion.

I watched the 2nd quarter from behind the goals and Garland Cross and Lamumba did a sensational job defending with body position on Rewoildt . This doesn't show up in stats.

If we nailed the first quarters opportunities its a completely different game.

[praha 10,329]

The bane of my existence.

What frustrates me the most is the forwards run up the ground, then run back again without having any impact on the play. However, when the ball does come down they are either knackered from running so far or running with the flight of the ball instead of at the ball carrier on the lead.

It's not Hogans fault, though. Do you see what happens? We aren't direct, so he leads up to the ball and he's ignored. At this point, the opposition gets players behind the ball, and Hogan is stuck in the hole.

The problem is not our forwards. It's our breakdown out of defense, our [censored] stoppage work, and our shocking delivery. Also, a distinctive lack of trust, urgency and confidence going forward.

[SaberFang 7,141]

It infuriates me seeing an MFC player take a mark on the cusp of F50 but, with nobody to kick it to, waits 10 seconds for every player and their pet dog to flood the forward line, then just bombs it in expecting one of our players to mark it. Almost every single time it results in 10 players all going for the mark, leaving a spillage out the back where we never have a crumber waiting (probably because they're still running back from opposition defense) and because all our tall forwards decide it's smartest to knock each other out in the one marking contest.

Edited July 27, 2015 by Lamashtu

[chook fowler 18,373]

Really?

Couldn't disagree more. The last person we should be hearing from is the president.Too many big mouth presidents say the wrong thing at the wrong time and create way too much angst that becomes a story in its own right.Knee jerk reactions we don't need.

All to make you feel better?

The footy dept knows what's wrong. If they can't fix it in season they need to make list changes. If they can't get it right soon they will be in the firing line. No amount of president pulpit screeching will fix this by next week.

I think you are missing the point. It's not about making me feel better - I'm way beyond help. It's about leadership and communication.

[John Crow Batty 8,291]

The first 10 minutes of the first quarter was the killer. If we had of executed skills and decision making to somewhere around afl standard we would have 3-5 more goals on the board. Confidence is up and we are in a winning position.

15 minute mark first quater - Dawes marks outside 50 southern stand flank , he ignores the longer option who is Hogan with a mismatch and kicks back into the centre square hitting stkilda's ruck lace out.

14.28 - Hogan marks at the top of the square and misses

13.10 - Vince ignores Jetta at half back as a first option handball to a free player and is tackled giving away a free kick that gives the saints an inside 50 that they waste

12.38 - Dawes marks in space on the southern stand flank kicks short to the leading Hogan at the 50 meter mark and dribbles the kick along the ground - turnover

11.28 - Dawes roves the pack after Harmes attempts the mark of the year and misses with a dribble kick 20 out dead in front

11.17 - Jones Goals

10.05 - Tyson has the ball inside 50 clear and running on the Olympic stand side, he kicks awkwardly back inside. turnover.

7.05 - Stkilda kick their first goal

Score STKilda 9 Melb 8

The game style starting positions match ups coaching did its job and allowed us enough chances to win that quarter. I'm sure Roos McCartney and Goodwin have the drills and nous to ensure the guys skills are up to par at training as we have seen with our own eyes. Match day is an issue between the ears . it has nothing to do with the coaching in my opinion.

I watched the 2nd quarter from behind the goals and Garland Cross and Lamumba did a sensational job defending with body position on Rewoildt . This doesn't show up in stats.

If we nailed the first quarters opportunities its a completely different game.

The same for the third quarter. We started off well, attacked hard. Kicked a couple of behinds and despite Hogan. McDonald and Gawn lurking, we let them take two big pack marks right in front of our goal. Then we run out of steam and let them kick a few easy goals quickly. Our third quarters have been woeful this season. Only won four and tied one. Lost the rest easily. Allowing 6 goals in the third in horid conditions was inexcusable. Game was lost here again. Edited July 27, 2015 by america de cali

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

It's not Hogans fault, though. Do you see what happens? We aren't direct, so he leads up to the ball and he's ignored. At this point, the opposition gets players behind the ball, and Hogan is stuck in the hole.

The problem is not our forwards. It's our breakdown out of defense, our [censored] stoppage work, and our shocking delivery. Also, a distinctive lack of trust, urgency and confidence going forward.

I'm talking before it even gets to this point, when the opposition have the ball all forwards push right up into the defensive half of the ground. However, most of the time the deep forwards (Hogan who I'm not personally blaming) rarely actually impact on the play so when Melbourne do win the ball back he has to run back to the forward line.

If Hogan didn't push up the ground (and his opponent) did then yes, the opposition would have more players in the defensive half of the ground but we would have Hogan (maybe eve more forwards if we were so lucky) on his own at centre half forward. How many coaches would leave a player like Hogan on his own in the forward line?

[CityDee 738]

The same for the third quarter. We started off well, attacked hard. Kicked a couple of behinds and despite Hogan. McDonald and Gawn lurking let them take two big pack marks right in front of our goal. Then we run out of steam and let them kick a few easy goals quickly. Our third quarters have been woeful this season. Only won four and tied one. Lost the rest easily. Allowing 6 goals in the third in horid conditions was inexcusable.

True that , if we had a buffer of 3-5 we could have survived their 3 quarter dominance but gee wasn't the 3rd frustrating, I hit the bar pretty hard 2 bourbons at a time time.

[Mazer Rackham 14,970]

I'm talking before it even gets to this point, when the opposition have the ball all forwards push right up into the defensive half of the ground. However, most of the time the deep forwards (Hogan who I'm not personally blaming) rarely actually impact on the play so when Melbourne do win the ball back he has to run back to the forward line.

This sums up everything that's wrong with football at the minute. (And I don't mean us losing all the time.)

The forward has to run back to the forward line.

The forward half of the ground is empty of players, so when the forward's team gets it, the forward has to run back to the forward line.

The players are crowded around the ball, to such an extent that the forward half of the ground is empty of players, so when the forward's team gets it, the forward has to run back to the forward line.

What an unpleasant unatttractive spectacle.

[jnrmac 19,254]

I think you are missing the point. It's not about making me feel better - I'm way beyond help. It's about leadership and communication.

I agree with your last comment except I think it has to come from the footy dept.

The board should stay out of it publicly.

[Deespicable 2,563]

Back off a bit about Roosy. Yes we lack run and were beaten by a quicker, younger side that like the Dogs has recruited quick, hard youngsters.

But Roosy has spent his first two years overhauling the list.

In year one he opted to recruit guys that were big-bodied midfielders (Vince, Tyson, Cross) and by correctly making our most courageous hard worker (Nat Jones) captain, he fixed our inability to win clearances and be competitive around the pill. Only Fremantle, Hawthorn, WC and GWS (second half) have smashed us at clearances this year.

In year two he recruited quicker players because we couldn't transition into attack and Garlett has been a revelation, Lumumba hasn't really lived up to his pre-season form and Frost and Petracca got injured.

But clearly we are better than last year.

Sure we can all dispute team selections - eg: Garland on Riewoldt - but it's somewhat understandable given how T-Mac had gone the past two weeks up forward and he obviously wanted to give it another go.

As to gamestyle, we do seem to have lost our ability to go forward and the obsession with handballing backwards or sideways is frustating, but that's part of modern-day 'possession at all costs' football.

Our biggest problem now is that we don't have linebreakers and against a quick side like Saints, we just didn't have the ability to link up and break the press. Hopefully Prestia's arrival will give us more confidence of linking up through the middle.

While Wattsy has made steps in recent weeks, he went back into his safety mode. That's picking on him, but he's one that has to run and take risks, because we don't have many that can do this and he's now playing the prime outside run position. Billy was also poor in this area this week - so I think you will find Matt Jones back for him. Don't get grumpy, until we get Kent back and Frost, we just don't have the pace to hurt sides and M.Jones is one of the few, that, on paper at least, can provide it.

[FireOath 290]

This sums up everything that's wrong with football at the minute. (And I don't mean us losing all the time.)

The forward has to run back to the forward line.

The forward half of the ground is empty of players, so when the forward's team gets it, the forward has to run back to the forward line.

The players are crowded around the ball, to such an extent that the forward half of the ground is empty of players, so when the forward's team gets it, the forward has to run back to the forward line.

What an unpleasant unatttractive spectacle.

That's the way it happens with some setups. A 22 man defense, just means that players need to run hard to spread. The 22 man defense is fine, I don't have a problem with that. But they just need to work harder to beat their opposing player running forward.

Edited July 27, 2015 by Barra17

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

This sums up everything that's wrong with football at the minute. (And I don't mean us losing all the time.)

The forward has to run back to the forward line.

The forward half of the ground is empty of players, so when the forward's team gets it, the forward has to run back to the forward line.

The players are crowded around the ball, to such an extent that the forward half of the ground is empty of players, so when the forward's team gets it, the forward has to run back to the forward line.

What an unpleasant unatttractive spectacle.

Exactly, it's not just Melbourne. All teams do it (again I don't believe it is always best) it's just most teams do it well.

For me, Australian Rules football is unique in that you are able to have players forward of the ball without any restriction, yet coaches today nullify that advantage by moving all players so far back.

[Henrietta Lumbago 331]

Everyone knows why all of our forwards struggled yesterday its because of our midfield and crap defensive game plan....seriously hope that goodwin goes his own way and learns from the mistakes being made now. Where is the run that Bailey brought that the fans loved.

[Jara 1,149]

Everyone knows why all of our forwards struggled yesterday its because of our midfield and crap defensive game plan....seriously hope that goodwin goes his own way and learns from the mistakes being made now. Where is the run that Bailey brought that the fans loved.

I'm afraid I don't hold out much hope for Goodwin. Hand-picked and taught by Mr Bland. What's he learnt? How to sit on your arse and collect $1.5 million a year? He could have learnt that from Hird.

Hate footie at present. Over- defensive team, rugby scrum around the ball, confusing rules. We all know who's going to win the flag. Hate it. One of my favourite past times has been taken over by the spivs and destroyed. Hate it.

[Coq au vin 754]

If I remember correctly he was their only goal kicker (who was our fullback)? Great football player is Nick.

I'd love to know why Tom McDonald was stuck up on the forward line.

because our forward structure is no good especially Dawes.

[Jara 1,149]

Hey, just noticed, My double century of posts. Jeez, what a cheery one. I need to get out more.