Some serious questions asked about Paul Roos ...

[CityDee 738]

The biggest problem Roos has (in my opinion) is that he has a game plan that is unsuited to his playing list. Asking unskilled footballers to play a high possession game is just plain dumb.

What we should be doing at every opportunity is kicking long and quick to a marking target 50 metres down the line and, if we can't get a mark, force a stoppage. If Dawes is incapable of taking contested marks, or at least making a contest, then Spencer would be a better option. At least if we move the ball quickly Hogan and co can compete one out with their direct opponent, rather than one on five.

And if there is greater certainty surrounding our first option, we won't need to have the likes of Dawes & Hogan chasing kicks on the half back line.

Instead we play hot potato with 1 metre handpasses to stationery targets, or chip backwards and sideways to players under pressure. All that does is increase the likelihood of a turnover happening 50 metres closer to the opposition goal. Or it allows opposition players to flood back for the inevitable kick down the line a minute too late.

If Roos is committed to the possession game he needs to stop recruiting the likes of Riley & Michie, and bring in some blokes who can kick and handpass.

Mark Neelds game plan? Mitch Clarke for Hogan

What we should be doing at every opportunity is kicking long and quick to a marking target 50 metres down the line and, if we can't get a mark, force a stoppage. If Dawes is incapable of taking contested marks, or at least making a contest, then Spencer would be a better option. At least if we move the ball quickly Hogan and co can compete one out with their direct opponent, rather than one on five.

[Gorgoroth 12,972]

anyone who thinks Roosy aint up to it is a muppet. play on- Roos 5 wins

Have a look at the ladder 6 wins - Stkilda Richardson?

Port 7 wins _ Hinkley ?

Pies 8 wins Buckley ?

Teams we all have been in or should have been in winning positions against this season. wouldn't happen if the game plan or coach was inept.

Its the players who have not taken opportunities, faded lost the plot. This will change with additions of quality players experience , time together as a group.

seriously get a grip. Anyone who emails the club asking questions of a highly talented proven coach who is putting his all into bringing quality into the club and implementing a lasting culture in my opinion is as wrong as it gets.

For too long we have meekly watched this club, we have stuck fat.

Now it's time for the club to raise itself, PJ asked for patience and for 18 months he has got it.

Now we are still getting [censored] weak efforts, a terrible game style, players who can't do the basic of basics in this game.

No more. I'm sick of giving this club time, so many other clubs are passing us by whilst we wallow at the foot of the ladder for another year.

Until they actually have a red hot dip for five games in a row before a bad game then I may give them so kudos.

Until that point they have had their chances and like their efforts by support will as I please. No more unconditional support.

[grazman 7,436]

I'm in no position to judge Graz, but Eade does. Recently I've read Eade's comments after Saturday's game, seen Buckley and Roos on TV last night and listened to one of our footy department people talk about this issue at a function last week.

The things that seem to come out of this is that coaches coach first and foremost to stop the opposition scoring goals. They slow the game down at every opportunity to aide this and they train their players to hold the ball in when tackled and force stoppages when not in control of the footy so they can "reset".

As a spectator the coaches objectives are the antithesis of what I want to see. As a supporter I want to win which is obviously the same objective as the coach.

On 360 last night Roos asked the question "what do we want our game to look like?". I know blokes who think the 2005 GF was the best game ever - hard, tough, great contest. I thought the only thing that saved it was the atmosphere of the GF itself and the closeness of the scores. It was a boring game. Give me the showdown in Adelaide last week anytime.

I get the feeling that as the AFL try to speed the game up the coaches will come up with ways to slow it down. Zones are an obvious way of trying to do beat the coaches but I don't think people want them. I don't. Clarkeson says we need to apply the rules more actively but Buckley says the rules are so complicated as to be almost unenforceable.

There are better minds than mine around to try and sort it out but from where I sit being a spectator is approaching an all time low and of course being an MFC supporter has been the worst gig in the competition for decades.

It’s not a pretty look is it, but like you say all we want for Christmas is a bloody premiership. The issue for mine around Roo’s game plan that is often overlooked is that it was built on playing games at the SCG, not MCG. It’s little wonder that a lot of our players are feeling the pinch in terms of fitness. It’s not a huge concern to be honest as I think Roos is concentrating on reestablishing culture and the basics of what is needed to be successful. Be that as it may I think being able to play the stoppage game going forward is prudent in terms of where the game is going and I think it’s far from a forgone conclusion that Goodwin will be a Roos clone, but will undoubtedly benefit from his tutelage in some aspects and develop his own style having at least started to address the issues in place. I think he will be more attacking, but it’s a work in progress – neither Geelong or Hawthorn established their dominance overnight.

I know you and others may have significant issues around the succession plan and Roo’s nomination of his own successor and due process. This isn’t the way it’s usually done in the industry, most of the time it’s a head in the basket and ‘next’… I can only speculate that Peter Jackson was comfortable with the process and that Roos himself knows the sorts of traits that are needed in replacing him. I’d see the way Carlton are going about it as industry standard for replacing a coach you’ve just rissoled, a better approach is a succession plan where the incumbent can do a proper ‘handover’.

I think a lot of work still needs to be done with the umpires, clearly Roos is frustrated with the ‘interpretation’ of rules. Simply penalising the last man holding the ball when they haven’t been given a chance to dispose of the ball when the music stops (Vince penalised while bending over to pick the ball up at the same time he was being tackled) is also not a good look for the game.

[Whispering_Jack 30,236]

I'm not convinced that the result on Sunday means that we've necessarily slipped behind St. Kilda or that they are going to be ahead of us as a club in two years.

Judging by the Saints' best players from the game:-

St. Kilda Riewoldt, Roberton, Gilbert, Geary, Dempster, Fisher, Montagna

I'll back us against them any day of the week in 2017.

[Biffen 12,944]

I'm not convinced that the result on Sunday means that we've necessarily slipped behind St. Kilda or that they are going to be ahead of us as a club in two years.

Judging by the Saints' best players from the game:-

I'll back us against them any day of the week in 2017.

Dempster running around Dunn on the wing.Roo on one leg.

we are going to start seeing some retirements next year at other clubs .

Guys that have been whipping us for years.

Geelong,North,Saints,Swans and Freo have a closing window.

[jumbo returns 6,741]

I'm not convinced that the result on Sunday means that we've necessarily slipped behind St. Kilda or that they are going to be ahead of us as a club in two years.

Judging by the Saints' best players from the game:-

I'll back us against them any day of the week in 2017.

Dempster running around Dunn on the wing.Roo on one leg.

we are going to start seeing some retirements next year at other clubs .

Guys that have been whipping us for years.

Geelong,North,Saints,Swans and Freo have a closing window.

True, but whilst all this is happening, their young uns are learning from the best.

Paddy McCartin looks like he'll be a beauty!

[Ted Lasso 19,521]

Watching AFL 360 didnt fill me with confidence that he actually wants his job anymore. Bit of a worry

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Watching AFL 360 didnt fill me with confidence that he actually wants his job anymore. Bit of a worry

He dodged the question about wanting to coach next year for sure.

[PaulRB 6,391]

Paul Roo's is feeling the grim dark oppressive doom that comes with being the coach (or Supporter) of the MFC.

For someone who was at Fitzroy just prior to their "merger" with Brissie to say he's never been at a club that feels the pain of losing more than Melbourne, then he's finally got it...

We are the twitchy gunshy wretch in the corner, expecting to get beaten up every week, dreaming and clinging to fleeing moments of success

And when we inevitably lose, we turn down the lights and sway to Nick Cave and weep prayers to the football Gods to give us a sign. Any sign...

Roo's foolishly thought he was the sign, and now he finds himself, like us, on his knees praying for one....

Welcome to the MFC Paul, you're finally one of us.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

Paul Roo's is feeling the grim dark oppressive doom that comes with being the coach (or Supporter) of the MFC.

For someone who was at Fitzroy just prior to their "merger" with Brissie to say he's never been at a club that feels the pain of losing more than Melbourne, then he's finally got it...

We are the twitchy gunshy wretch in the corner, expecting to get beaten up every week, dreaming and clinging to fleeing moments of success

And when we inevitably lose, we turn down the lights and sway to Nick Cave and weep prayers to the football Gods to give us a sign. Any sign...

Roo's foolishly thought he was the sign, and now he finds himself, like us, on his knees praying for one....

Welcome to the MFC Paul, you're finally one of us.

oh ffs

[WhyAlwaysMe 237]

i'm looking forward to Open Mike in 5 years time when he tells the truth about his appointment & time at MFC.

[Fitz Fitzpatrick 886]

i'm looking forward to Open Mike in 5 years time when he tells the truth about his appointment & time at MFC.

5 years time?!! The show will be called 'Dig up Mike' by then

[titan_uranus 25,020]

I also cannot accept the comments from those who suggest he is just a mercenary and doesn't really care about the club. What are they basing this on - his press conferences? Roos is a master at handling the press. He doesn't want to inflame the situation by getting angry and singling out players in public. He is too smart for this. He would do it all behind closed doors and out of the public eye. If you would prefer a coach that rants and raves and brings unwanted publicity then go hire a hothead - for me, I would take Roos' ability to stay measured and level-headed in a press conference every day of the week.

I agree with this.

Drawing the conclusion that he doesn't care on the basis of his outward appearances is ridiculous - nothing in that regard is different to how he was at Sydney. At Sydney he didn't get emotional often, he was calm, he deflected questions, he avoided tough questions.

No one makes it to AFL level that can't hit a target 2o metres away.

That's just wrong IMO. Plenty of players are drafted into AFL clubs because they display athletic qualities and their football skills are secondary.

Fitzpatrick, Spencer, Bail and M Jones are all players who were drafted primarily because of their work ethic, fitness, mobility, tank, and that's just Melbourne. Every club has done it over the years.

I think most supporters agree that Roos was the right man to galvanise the club at the time.

But some, like Scoop, sheet home nearly all of the blame to the players. Perhaps they think he's got the most out of the group and that they're performing at the level they should be - at prerequisite levels. I can't agree. I believe they're performing below expectations and that the game-plan is either too complicated, or deficient. In the preseason there was evidence they were going to use the corridor more and focus on faster ball movement. Clearly, this was short lived. Either the players can't follow instruction or the message isn't getting through. Ultimately, this falls at the feet of the coach.

The boys from Champion Data show that Melbourne start their attacks from near the last line of defence. Simon Goodwin acknowledged this a few weeks ago in a prematch interview and stated we wanted to start attacks from near the middle of the ground. It's not happening.

I acknowledge we have talent deficiencies, who doesn't, but I also see a club like the Dogs, who sacked their coach and CEO, had their captain walk out, and lost their best mid with a knee. Are their talent levels so superior to ours, or do they have an easier to understand and implement game-plan ? The answer seems obvious to me. Roos may not want to coach like Beveridge, I get that, but I also remember him in year 1 stating that by round 6 supporters should start seeing what type of footy we were going to play. Yeah, I see it and it's unedifying.

Roos would rightly accept the accolades if we were winning. Conversely, it's a nonsense to absolve him of criticism when nearly 2 years in we're regularly seeing performances like the weekend.

Agree with this too.

As always on Demonland, things are either black or white, people cannot see in between. Just as it's simplistic to blame everything on Roos and suggest he's the entire source of the problem, it's also simplistic to think the entire blame is on the players and Roos is completely infallible.

The truth must surely lie in between. Roos isn't coaching well on match day, and he's also failing to develop the players into a team that can play the gameplan consistently. Whether it's because the gameplan is a bad one or whether it's actually a good one but he can't get the players to play it consistently, I'm not sure. I tend to believe the gameplan is fine and the issue is that the players and coaches have not taken us to the point where we can execute it satisfactorily every week. I think the way we performed against GC, Richmond, WB, Geelong, as well as against Collingwood, the first half against GWS and Port, suggests to me that the plan, when it works, displays high quality football from which we are capable of scoring well, and developing strong leads (26 points up against Adelaide in 20 minutes, 33 points up on GWS in a half, 24 points up on Port in under a half, piling on 5 goals in about 10 minutes, twice, against Collingwood). We can score 100+ points while smashing sides in the CPs and clearances (the Richmond and WB games showed that).

The problem, IMO, is that the players aren't capable of doing it for four quarters weekly, and the resultant lapses are appallingly bad. That's the players' fault and the coaches' fault together, not just one or the other.

[Fitz Fitzpatrick 886]

TU, most blokes in amateur country footy can hit a target at 20m by foot. No way anyone in the AFL system can't kick it someone form 20m. I could do it as a teenager and I'm not particularly skillful.

The point was in reference to dawes grubber kicks under little pressure and other skied kicks.

Edited July 28, 2015 by Munga

[chookrat 4,257]

Paul Roo's is feeling the grim dark oppressive doom that comes with being the coach (or Supporter) of the MFC.

For someone who was at Fitzroy just prior to their "merger" with Brissie to say he's never been at a club that feels the pain of losing more than Melbourne, then he's finally got it...

We are the twitchy gunshy wretch in the corner, expecting to get beaten up every week, dreaming and clinging to fleeing moments of success

And when we inevitably lose, we turn down the lights and sway to Nick Cave and weep prayers to the football Gods to give us a sign. Any sign...

Roo's foolishly thought he was the sign, and now he finds himself, like us, on his knees praying for one....

Welcome to the MFC Paul, you're finally one of us.

Melbourned

[Willmoy1947 4,099]

Roos not the sort of bloke to give it away. Fact

Another list turnover of players. Fact

Staying the course for me always. Fact

[What 18,810]

Melbourned

This is a real phenomena

Just look what we've done to Lumumba

Tyson was able to fight off being Melbourned at first but it got him after 18 months

Garlett has been able to repel it thus far but will no doubt get his turn in 2016

[olisik 4,060]

This is a real phenomena

Just look what we've done to Lumumba

Tyson was able to fight off being Melbourned at first but it got him after 18 months

Garlett has been able to repel it thus far but will no doubt get his turn in 2016

Most players we bring it happens. Dawes was decent when he first came in. Terlich wasn't so bad. VandenBerg, Tyson, Lamumba, Clark, Trengove, JKH, Grimes , the list goes on. All our players go to [censored] in the red and blue. hogan Brayshaw and Garlett look like our best players...

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

I think you are referring to the club he coached before us. Take his record at Sydney out, if he was a 2 nd year coach we would be calling for his head.

I can't believe we have a bloke dominating the ruck hit outs but the last two weeks we have been smashed in the clearances, this is structure, we are predictable at stoppages particularly Center stoppages, just Palm it backwards right behind you. If you don't get the ball the back side is opened up for a deep inside 50. It's the same spot we have hit the ball for 2 years, every stoppage

But he's not a second year coach. He's regarded in the industry as an elite, experienced AFL coach.

That supporters may think this reflects more in their (woefully ignorant) understanding of things than Roos ability as a senior coach.

Those same supporters would've put Ken Hinkley on a pedestal last year and vilified him this year.

[The Song Formerly Known As 6,479]

Dumb people bagging out Nathan Jones. The Flower of our generation, respected (finally) by AFL community but questioned stupidly by morons on here after a loss. He is the heart of the demons and not the problem.

[Adam The God 30,274]

If Roos can turn this around I'll be the first to congratulate him and the coaching group on the job well done.

The problem is, every indication is that we are going backwards, falling back into old habits, and Roos talks about it like it's unfair that the finger be pointed at him, like it's somehow not related to his role... No coach in the history of the game has ever accepted a bigger pay packet. You took the Messiah's price tag, you accepted the Messiah's adulation and now you have to live with the scrutiny of massively under delivering.

You can't preach accountability and responsibility to the playing group and then not demonstrate any yourself. Just once I'd like to hear Roos say, I came into this job with my eyes wide open, I knew what I was getting into and what I had to work with, I have under delivered to this point but the players and supporters can rely on me, as the senior coach to remain 100% committed to achieving what we as a collective, set out to do.

Roos was asked the question on 360 last night, "do you want to coach this team next year?" He cut up rough and avoided answering it. At the very least, he owed long suffering supporters a direct answer to a very simple question. Once again, he treated supporters with the contempt that has become all too common.

Every indication is that we're going backwards? Really? So five wins this year, as apposed to four wins by the end of the season is no indication of forward momentum? Righto.

[felixdacat 459]

It certainly is frustrating D'Landers.

The way I see it we have 2 options

Option 1

or Option 2

This season I seem to be running out of stuff to break.

[Adam The God 30,274]

The leaders set the tone. In every organisation, everywhere. Followers figure out how to 'work' with the leaders that they get. There is no doubt that we have the weakest set of on-field leaders in the AFL - both in terms of man-management and competence-in-game. But we need them to protect kids. Only when dunn, garland, jones etc are replaced by kids able to out-perform them will we see meaningful change - but that requires talented kids with the right make-up. There is no evidence from anywhere that the MFC has figured out how to recruit yet. We are in a hellhole of our own creation. So as supporters we have to endure this situation. Our 'talent management' is just non-existent.

Jones is a good example. He should never have been made captain...except there is no-one better. So we deal with it. But a leader? Really?

If I get one more of Peter Jackson's "suck it up" speeches, I'll spew.

Well, see this was the same problem with Grimes and Trengove being made captain. I genuinely stand by the fact that Grimes and Trengove were our only legitimate options for captaincy when Neeld arrived. When Grimes and Trengove were made captain, Jones was an ordinary player. In Grimes and Trengove's first season as captains, Jones had his best year. Its revisionism to say otherwise. Jonesy has improved every year since.

And Jones does show moments of good leadership. In our wins this year, he has been an integral part of them (think the goal at the start of the 4th against Geelong), but in an ideal world, he's not your captain. He's a solid midfield contributor and someone like a Selwood (who can really impact the game and change the flow of things) is your captain. We don't have anyone that has the talent and experience to be that player right now. With good coaching and development, Hogan and someone like Brayshaw could well become that sort of leader, but as you say, mate, we're stuck at the moment.

The biggest problem Roos has (in my opinion) is that he has a game plan that is unsuited to his playing list. Asking unskilled footballers to play a high possession game is just plain dumb.

What we should be doing at every opportunity is kicking long and quick to a marking target 50 metres down the line and, if we can't get a mark, force a stoppage. If Dawes is incapable of taking contested marks, or at least making a contest, then Spencer would be a better option. At least if we move the ball quickly Hogan and co can compete one out with their direct opponent, rather than one on five.

And if there is greater certainty surrounding our first option, we won't need to have the likes of Dawes & Hogan chasing kicks on the half back line.

Instead we play hot potato with 1 metre handpasses to stationery targets, or chip backwards and sideways to players under pressure. All that does is increase the likelihood of a turnover happening 50 metres closer to the opposition goal. Or it allows opposition players to flood back for the inevitable kick down the line a minute too late.

If Roos is committed to the possession game he needs to stop recruiting the likes of Riley & Michie, and bring in some blokes who can kick and handpass.

I'd actually argue he's trying to play to the team's strengths. That is keep it slow and congested, because we're so slow in the foot speed department. Your last line is spot on though. If we are intent on playing the possession game, we should be targeting blokes with high skill levels.

[Adam The God 30,274]

I'm not convinced that the result on Sunday means that we've necessarily slipped behind St. Kilda or that they are going to be ahead of us as a club in two years.

Judging by the Saints' best players from the game:-

I'll back us against them any day of the week in 2017.

Exactly, Jack, which highlights the perpetually raised issue of the dearth of experienced leaders on our list.

[dee-tox 4,835]

As frustrating as it is losing twice to StKilda we've improved. Maybe we will win six games. Should have been 8-9. The wheat is still being sorted from the chaff.