Some serious questions asked about Paul Roos ...

[John Crow Batty 8,871]

I am still of the opinion, most of our problems lie between the players ears. We can play well and that has been demonstrated but players choose when they want to fire up and are bedevilled by poor leadership. Grimes, Trengove and now Jones are perhaps the most ineffective captains I have witnessed and we have had to put up with their non leadership for 4 seasons. In the past 10 years we have seen many sides bottom out but suddenly improve with minimal changes. Even Essendon with all their problems show more resistence to mediocrity. Inability to install an elite mindset is the most obvious and unimpeachable Roos failure.

Edited July 26, 2015 by america de cali

[13thFlagIsComing 542]

After sitting through the dribble of yesterday in the cold of the Southern Stand, I've come to the conclusion that this team is stuck between Roos and his defence and Goodwin's attack.

As much as Roos bangs on about 2 way running our players do not have the desire, fitness, focus, call it whatever you like to gut run to make space or force a contest.

Too many times our players were stagnant rather than running into space.

Too many times our players saw a first option up field, ignored it for the shorter option to try and keep possession but turned it over.

Too many times when going up the line was the sensible option, we cut inside, missed the target (usually the ball going over someone’s head) straight to the opposition.

Too many times off half back we compressed numbers up the ground leaving no option but either maintain possession through handball chains (which usually break down due to too much pressure) or bang it up the ground to a one on two (usually Hogan / Garlett vs two).

Too many times we missed simple set shots at goal. The last time I checked scoring makes up 50 % of the reason you win (50% you score more than the opposition - 50% you make the opposition score less than you).

Too many times we would switch wings but were too slow at doing it thus the opposition have time to get across to cover the space.

I’ve already booked to go with a mate next week otherwise I won’t be turning up for the rest of the year. Before anyone goes on about supporting the team, thick and thin blah blah blah I won’t waste my time anymore with a team that has no genuine desire to make a contest. I can put up with a team trying to improve or implement a game plan but not at the expense of not being able to execute fundamentals and non-negotiables.

Oh and one more thing. I found out from my dad yesterday (I was sitting in another area) that Chris Dawes parents were sitting behind him yesterday. After the pasting he was getting from the Dees members throughout the entire game they left about half way through the last.

Don’t blame them either. I left about the same time to beat the traffic.

[Glenn Molloy 494]

The reason why it appears the likes of WB, St Kilda and to a lesser extent, WCE have improved quicker than what Melbourne has is purely and simply that the aforementioned teams all play a fast, attack-based game plan involving fast ball movement and a greater chance of scoring. A high risk, high reward style kind of mindset.

Got nothing to do with "fast, attack-based game plans". We can't hit a target by hand or foot to save ourselves, so you can have the greatest attack minded game plan in history but if you can't hit targets, you can't move the bloody ball, fast or slow! Our game plan was fine against GC, Geelong, WB and Collingwood, because our skills and decision making were decent. Why does Hawthorn's game plan look so good? Because they make the correct decision, run to the right places to help the ball carrier, and they HIT TARGETS!!

[old dee 23,792]

Got nothing to do with "fast, attack-based game plans". We can't hit a target by hand or foot to save ourselves, so you can have the greatest attack minded game plan in history but if you can't hit targets, you can't move the bloody ball, fast or slow! Our game plan was fine against GC, Geelong, WB and Collingwood, because our skills and decision making were decent. Why does Hawthorn's game plan look so good? Because they make the correct decision, run to the right places to help the ball carrier, and they HIT TARGETS!!

Spot on GM

It is not the coaching panel.

We still have a barrel of monkeys.

We have far too many players who are not skilled enough to cut it at AFL level.

Respectability is still some years off.

Still a lot of trading years to go to fix the decade of being poorly run.

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

Plenty of times yesterday we (after much faffing around) got the ball out of the maul, got it to a loose player, and looking then down the ground, there was loose player after loose player. Everyone in position for a chain of passes into the 50. Beautiful.

And then someone kicks it straight to the oppo, or to someone who's marked, or 90m in the air for the oppo to come and bury the receiver.

Can't understand how this has not been attended to.

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

Spot on GM

It is not the coaching panel.

We still have a barrel of monkeys.

We have far too many players who are not skilled enough to cut it at AFL level.

Respectability is still some years off.

Still a lot of trading years to go to fix the decade of being poorly run.

I can't believe Roos' credentials as a coach are even being questioned. Simple fact is, the playing stocks are still not good enough. We can bang on about coaches and inept game plans as much as we like, but this current crop, collectively, still don't have the skills required to be even moderately successful at AFL level. OD, your last sentence says it all.

[SaberFang 7,151]

I'm convinced we have major structural problems which means one of two things:

A) Roos is clueless and has no idea what he's doing

B) The players have no footy nous and can't execute a basic defensive gameplan or understand/remember their structures on game day

I'm inclined to go with the latter. Couple that with the rolling maul of players that sees the best young forward in the league gaining possession at half-back with nobody up the ground to kick it to, wait 10 seconds for a player to finally break free and run through the middle, then kick it to them and watch them proceed to fluff the mark and turn it over, and you can see where our problems lie.

Unskilled, exhausted, confused and disinterested footballers.

[Moonshadow 17,676]

I wanted bomber Thompson. I think he's quirky but players play for him and his style of footy is great. He definitely had the bombers playing good footy

No thanks. Doesn't pass the sniff test, IYKWIM.

[1858 285]

Got nothing to do with "fast, attack-based game plans". We can't hit a target by hand or foot to save ourselves, so you can have the greatest attack minded game plan in history but if you can't hit targets, you can't move the bloody ball, fast or slow! Our game plan was fine against GC, Geelong, WB and Collingwood, because our skills and decision making were decent. Why does Hawthorn's game plan look so good? Because they make the correct decision, run to the right places to help the ball carrier, and they HIT TARGETS!!

There's more to it than that. Yes, our skills are deplorable but we don't play the percentages.

Our players get in each other's way, we don't kick to space, we don't have any discernible team rules up forward, players are always hesitating what to do. We have no fluency or understanding between players. We don't know how to efficiently chain and carry the football. We don't instinctively run to the right spots to give the ball carrier the best option. Whilst you've commented on these facets I think you underestimate how reliant a lot of them are on the game plan.

Our skills are so deplorable though that we tend to have an either/or debate on this. It is a case of compounding problems. How our skills could be this bad though beggars belief. It boils down to how they train.

Add to that that we look sluggish more often than not and our match day fitness and conditioning also has to be looked at.

[SaberFang 7,151]

Hawks also have the advantage of a playing group that have stuck fast and played together for a solid length of time. Their senior core have been playing together for nearly a decade. They'd know each other's movements inside out because they don't make wholesale changes to the list every year in the way we have.

Edited July 27, 2015 by Lamashtu

[CityDee 738]

I posted this in the after match thread also.

The first 10 minutes of the first quarter was the killer. If we had of executed skills and decision making to somewhere around afl standard we would have 3-5 more goals on the board. Confidence is up and we are in a winning position.

15 minute mark first quater - Dawes marks outside 50 southern stand flank , he ignores the longer option who is Hogan with a mismatch and kicks back into the centre square hitting stkilda's ruck lace out.

14.28 - Hogan marks at the top of the square and misses

13.10 - Vince ignores Jetta at half back as a first option handball to a free player and is tackled giving away a free kick that gives the saints an inside 50 that they waste

12.38 - Dawes marks in space on the southern stand flank kicks short to the leading Hogan at the 50 meter mark and dribbles the kick along the ground - turnover

11.28 - Dawes roves the pack after Harmes attempts the mark of the year and misses with a dribble kick 20 out dead in front

11.17 - Jones Goals

10.05 - Tyson has the ball inside 50 clear and running on the Olympic stand side, he kicks awkwardly back inside. turnover.

7.05 - Stkilda kick their first goal

Score STKilda 9 Melb 8

The game style starting positions match ups coaching did its job and allowed us enough chances to win that quarter. I'm sure Roos McCartney and Goodwin have the drills and nous to ensure the guys skills are up to par at training as we have seen with our own eyes. Match day is an issue between the ears . it has nothing to do with the coaching in my opinion.

I watched the 2nd quarter from behind the goals and Garland Cross and Lamumba did a sensational job defending with body position on Rewoildt . This doesn't show up in stats.

If we nailed the first quarters opportunities its a completely different game.

[Earl Hood 6,086]

I'm convinced we have major structural problems which means one of two things:

A) Roos is clueless and has no idea what he's doing

B) The players have no footy nous and can't execute a basic defensive gameplan or understand/remember their structures on game day

I'm inclined to go with the latter. Couple that with the rolling maul of players that sees the best young forward in the league gaining possession at half-back with nobody up the ground to kick it to, wait 10 seconds for a player to finally break free and run through the middle, then kick it to them and watch them proceed to fluff the mark and turn it over, and you can see where our problems lie.

Unskilled, exhausted, confused and disinterested footballers.

Lam I only watched on TV so can't see everything but yes it seemed that time and time again we got possession between the arcs only to have to hold or go sideways because there were no forwards inside 50 and often when we did bomb the ball it was to a forward out numbered by defenders. So why is this happening? Why are forwards going up the ground unless the opposition has the ball and their immediate opponent is running forward to be part of the play.

[ILLDieADemon 804]

Did you open I similar thread when we loss to St.Kilda a few weeks ago?

[Grimes Times 1,278]

I think that's a great post. Completely agree. We've certainly seen individual performances improve, but we still don't play as a team. We don't run for each other, we don't shepherd for each other, we don't kick to the advantage of each other, we don't handball to the advantage of each other. We just focus on our individual games and it is killing the team.

SNAP

We dont play as a team. There is no care. Ive lost count of how many times in the last 3 week have we seen players blaze away from 50 and kick points when there have been players free inside 50.

[lualis 2]

First time poster....

I cant help after watching Paul yesterday we have Malcolm Blight mark 2 on our hands... he did not seem to have any real hurt or care factor after the loss....his plums are not on the line. Just seems like he is going through the motions. Apart from Kent and Salem we had our best team out there yesterday.

[Matt Demon 1,472]

We all got caught up in the Roos hype at the time but the alarm bells should have been going off when he wasn't in it for the long haul. He doesn't have the same passion as he did at Sydney, in the end the money was just to good. If Goodwin is ready and chomping at the bit the pull the trigger and get him in.

[Dee1987 277]

I'm sure he did he just has too many underperforming players his hand are tied until seasons end to make necessary changes, he has now given them 2 seasons to prove themselves and I'm sure he has had enough of players who constantly fail on delivering and won't be afraid to make some surprising but necessary changes seasons end!!

[GoDees! 3]

It is pretty clear...Roos to this point is an Administrator and has employed people to do specific jobs and 'rebuild' the club...all good, but enough is enough, it's high time Roos starts to 'coach the players through the week' and 'coach the team' on game day!

He is not a 'coach to the players', what he is very good at is selling his vision to the players. This provided initial enthusiasm to the players and MFC supporters, but when the 'vision' becomes clouded because people who are paid to a lot to do a certain job can't or don't, things start to go bad!

Leading Teams have been at Melbourne at the beginning of the year...maybe a few home truths are more than overdue here and it's time to get them back!

Points in case...
Dawes paid what $600+ and kicks 6 goals so far this year, 10 last season!
Garland (500k) plays like he doesn't care...
Grimes comes out and says I do feel like it was a wake-up call and something I needed when left out of the team in the first round...a wake up call...s##t sake, a wake up call...hello!
Watts - runs around pointing and telling other where to go but doesn't do the things he needs to himself, like tackle, chase, get a contested ball...
Howe - runs around like he's auditioning each week for a new club, it doesn't hurt him to lose the game he thinks it's not his issue or problem as he won;t be there next year anyway
Gawn - needs to hurt some opposition players

Midfield - need to go out on a blind date with each other so they get to know who's who!

Hogan - Run man, run...it's one to stand and take a mark, but when you don;t and your opponent has the ball, get him, pressure him, stop him!

Tyson - learn to run faster, too slow
Lumumba - has no idea he is going to get the ball and when he does has even less idea of what he's going to do with it!

McDonald - Same as Lumumba, gets it and forgets there is an opposition and takes 2-3 more steps than he should, gets cornered and turns it over because he put himself under pressure by going too far!

I feel sorry for the likes of Brayshaw, Petracca, Jones, Cross, Vince and a select other few...they must be thinking holy crap what am I doing here!!

Answer is simple, time for Roos to show he's a Super Coach, one who can teach and who 'coaches' the players to play the game, not administer the club and it's structures, that's what our highly paid CEO is paid to do!

Edited July 27, 2015 by GoDees!

[Hip & Shoulder 64]

Who watched the Hawks on Friday night? And who would like a few of the Hawks' coaching panel back at the MFC... Clarkson, Yze, Bruce and Neitz.

Yes, please!

[old dee 23,792]

Who watched the Hawks on Friday night? And who would like a few of the Hawks' coaching panel back at the MFC... Clarkson, Yze, Bruce and Neitz.

Yes, please!

They would make no difference.

The coaches do not run out on game day.

It is the players that are the problem

Easy to identify but a bit harder to fix in less than a decade.

[bing181 9,245]

Got nothing to do with "fast, attack-based game plans". We can't hit a target by hand or foot to save ourselves, so you can have the greatest attack minded game plan in history but if you can't hit targets, you can't move the bloody ball, fast or slow! Our game plan was fine against GC, Geelong, WB and Collingwood, because our skills and decision making were decent. Why does Hawthorn's game plan look so good? Because they make the correct decision, run to the right places to help the ball carrier, and they HIT TARGETS!!

Absolutely nails it. Apparently, 53 turnovers through the midfield. Staggering figure.

Tyson, Cross and Jetta all had 20+ disposals, with a third of those not reaching their intended targets. With players over 10 disposals, we had 6 at higher than 80% efficiency, St Kilda had 9, including Roberton - 100% efficiency for his 23 disposals.

Nothing to do with Roos, everything to do with consistently being able to execute the basics on the day.

(Also, quite a bit to do with Demonlanders having an over-inflated impression of the talents and capabilities of our players.)

[Devil is in the Detail 883]

They would make no difference.

The coaches do not run out on game day.

It is the players that are the problem

Easy to identify but a bit harder to fix in less than a decade.

I think you are confused OD, not bringing them back to coach, but to play.

[bing181 9,245]

Who watched the Hawks on Friday night? And who would like a few of the Hawks' coaching panel back at the MFC... Clarkson, Yze, Bruce and Neitz.

Yes, please!

Forget the Hawks coaching panel ... who'd like a few of the Hawks leading players?

Yes please.

[Thehardtackler 785]

Had a reply email from Peter Jackson today. It was quite a long response. He preached patience and stressed that we have already turned over 22 players and more changes are needed. He also spoke about it being 'a long journey' and that he got frustrated when players played like they did yesterday too. He also pointed out how young our list is and that the players do need to become more consistent.

I am not saying I agree with him but at least it shows that he cares about this club. I admire his passion.

[Fat Tony 5,234]

They would make no difference.

The coaches do not run out on game day.

It is the players that are the problem

Easy to identify but a bit harder to fix in less than a decade.

Hawthorn went from four wins to premiers in four years OD. We just need to draft well.

I don't really like our game plan or team selections, but Roos has done a very good job in starting to re-building our list. This is the key to long-term success.