Post Match Discussion - Round 15

[Wiseblood 24,637]

So what time is acceptable for these blokes to call it quits then. It's not about having a beer, it's the fact they look like they are happy as larry with the day and not hurting from the loss.

You're nothing but a [censored] stirrer and a prude mate. Everyone, in all walks of life, heads out to something on a Saturday night. These blokes shouldn't have to change their plans to suit a win or a loss.

Stop acting like a 13 year old girl and following all their instagram accounts looking for something to get stuck into them for. Get a life.

[Emerald 1,744]

When are we playing at Etihad next? At least there I can get close enough to throw my membership card at Howe's general direction as he walks off the ground.

[leucopogon 1,517]

Guys, players from every club go out after the footy games. Give em a break. What does everyone else here do on a friday night when they finish work?

Go home and watch Netflix

[Deespicable 2,672]

Part of the problem is in the mindset of the mids, who try and barge through players. That is not a high percentage play as we see every week. Then when they are caught, they try the little handball, that is usually turned over. It is poor football and poor coaching to allow it to continue as it has for most of the year. If they want to learn how to do it, video Mitchell of the Hawks and see what he does.

Geelong and the Hawks are famous for the quick release backwards, to a player coming forwards who then can dish off the ball.

Effort and work rate are a big part of this, as when the first disposal is given off, other players forward of the ball are running to make space and give the option. We are poor at this.

It comes from practice and game plans put in place by the Coaches.

The same can be said of the loose man in defence, that has been used at least 3 times this year, that I can recall, to cost us a game, including yesterday. Why wasn't someone sent to Baguley by the Coaches to stop his clearances and cut off an easy way out for the bombers' defenders.

Also why did our forwards play from behind the whole game, allowing the Defenders easy uncontested marks and possessions. Surely the Coaches could have addressed that early in the game when it became obvious.

Further the long bombs into the forward line are useless when your key forwards are not marking the ball or bringing it to ground, like what was happening yesterday, yet we persisted with the long bombs.

Good blog and I agree with almost all of what you say, except that every club has a player that floats back to the marking contest and when our forwards are tunnelled under the ball like yesterday, it can be easy pickings for that player who has left his man. Some sides go further as you say and have an extra player float back, but that is no different to how we often use Crossy or Harry.

The best ways to break down this situation is to have quick ball movement through the middle, lower your eyes and head initially to the shorter lead (provided that player moves it on quickly) or to deliberately try and orchestrate a mismatch aerially and physically - which is what happened a bit when we sent Tom Mac down there in the last term. Another non-legal way is for our bigs to swing their arms back in contests to make sure a defender is a bit more wary of applying the screen or push - I don't advocate this, but some times if you can't draw the umpires attention to it, you have to make a stand.

The biggest fault yesterday was that in the first two terms we didn't take the game on - which (please note Chook) has nothing to do with intensity, just tactical mindset. Tom Mac tried early but hooked his first two left footers badly and we were almost embarrassed by the turnovers.

Col Garland went back into his shell and decided not to run when he had the chance and that's despite the fact that they dropped extra players back a kick behind play, so even if he had drawn a player, he should have had an easy give to get out of trouble. Making it worse was the fact that Crossy, our smartest linkman, was having his first dirty game all season - I can almost guarantee you he'll be close to our best next week.

The only player who almost always takes the game on, apart from Tom Mc, is Harry O, and too often we deride him for it because at times it does look non-sensical - like a headless chook. But if it comes off it breaks the line and gives our forwards an even chance - not a two-on-one chance.

The other factor in the first half was that we couldn't get either of our two wings - Watts or Stretch - into the game as linkmen. That's because we kept going back up the line (thanks Col and others) to contests hoping Gawn or Hoges or Dawes would take the pack mark. When Watts got into the game (when we took the game on in the last quarter because we had to), we started to look dangerous offensively again.

When you look at Hawthorn, it's a nice mix of hard inside players and quick wings like Smith, Hill and Hartung. At Freo it's the same - Hill, Pearce x2 - provide the link and run to break lines.

It's why many of us are subconsciously so dirty on Toump - because we know he was taken so high for that reason and he just doesn't have the pace.

Watts, since the Pies game, has shown he now realises what that role requires - not sure if he can keep it up, but if he does, we will win quite a few games.

[Adam The God 29,358]

Jeez, things must have been dire.

I felt really flat too and couldn't bring myself to face Demonland at all. Whether you let that affect the rest of your life is a choice, though.

A loss like that always motivates me to go back to work. So spent the night working. Couldn't face listening to the media coverage afterwards, but then I never can after a loss.

[Adam The God 29,358]

If you pulled 10 blokes out of the crowd, with beers in hand, I reckon having the same set shots at goal that our players did, they would score better. One of the few things these blokes have to do in life, is kick a football accurately.

We dispose worse than most and our kicking for goal is generally poor.

Strangely our kicking under Neeld, when we were having less shots on goal, was actually pretty accurate. It's a mindset thing and it's frustrating that our coaches can't break them out of it.

[Moneider96 1,045]

When are we playing at Etihad next? At least there I can get close enough to throw my membership card at Howe's general direction as he walks off the ground.

Bulldogs I'm guessing.

[Pirlo 813]

Hope that works

Probably sums up his attitude.

DGAF that he stuffed up too many times in the last quarter, and completely blew his chance to win us the game and make an impact.

Bad weekend? You'd hope so.

Honestly, don't mind players going out but they are taking the [censored] by getting plastered and putting it all over Instagram.

[rjay 24,593]

Sorry, but didn't want to read 20 pages of misery...

We are not good enough yet, we have a few like Dawes who are not up to it and some of the kids in particular Brayshaw looking a bit tired. Probably shouldn't have played after being subbed off with injury last week but lack off depth and class means we really don't have another option.

I thought Harmes even though subbed off (would have subbed Dawes myself) showed something in patches. Unfortunately you could see he was a bit lost for positioning and got run off and exposed at times. Things to expect from a first gamer, I hope he gets another run.

We are going to be up and down over the rest of this season and maybe next year, that's just how it works. At least we do get some real up's like the Geelong, GC Tiges and Dogs games where we start to look like a footy team. We will win a couple more and put in a few more sub standard performances.

[beelzebub 23,198]

Based on yesterday..and for mine was the most winnable going in, im not sure who we can beat for rest of 2015. Im just being realistic.

We got done over by EFC's gods waiting room and kindergarten combo !!!

I keep hearing the excuses/reasons in the pressers but silly me was of the thinking this is what coaches do.

Rapidly losing interest in this rabble

[Wiseblood 24,637]

Based on yesterday..and for mine was the most winnable going in, im not sure who we can beat for rest of 2015. Im just being realistic.

We got done over by EFC's gods waiting room and kindergarten combo !!!

I keep hearing the excuses/reasons in the pressers but silly me was of the thinking this is what coaches do.

Rapidly losing interest in this rabble

How many times would we have said that this year? After the flogging from Hawthorn we all questioned Roos... then we roll the Dogs. Everyone cracks it when we lose to the Saints... then we roll Geelong in Geelong.

I know the result yesterday sucked the big fat one, but we will win more games this year. We are more than good enough to do so.

[beelzebub 23,198]

Which games ?

[Wiseblood 24,637]

Which games ?

Brisbane next week and the Saints the following week are two that come to mind.

[titan_uranus 24,595]

The point is, after we lost to St Kilda plenty on here questioned how/when we were going to win another game, which we did in the most surprising fashion of all by beating Geelong.

IMO there's an equal chance we lose one or both of the Brisbane/St Kilda games as there is of us upsetting North, Collingwood or the Dogs. At least in those three games we know we'll be starting underdogs and there won't be that element of pressure that messed with us yesterday and is likely to mess with us again against the Lions.

[jackaub 1,402]

Thought Watts had a very good game as link man showed some agression and took the game on

Garland and Howes Games are exactly why I wouldnt want them in next years teams

They cause many of the problems and are damaged beyond help

[jumbo returns 6,703]

Especially those Kebabs from the dodgy caravans in petrol stations.

Yew!!

[beelzebub 23,198]

Saints.. were over a 100 points different against bombers alone.

Lions not disgraced against Freo.

Like your optimism...just dont share it

[bing181 8,909]

Pure and simple.

We were smashed at clearances

Actually, we won the clearances.

Just like we won pretty well every stat (3 less tackles, but that's about it).

[SaberFang 7,151]

It's actually a bit embarrassing and shows the posters' great lack of awareness of their own weaknesses. They might as well be saying "I don't have the emotional control to function after a loss, so the players shouldn't either."

As a rusted on it's always tough to lose games like this (the ones that were there for the taking), it's almost worse than the 100 point beltings. So if it's embarrassing and emotionally weak to be gutted about yesterday's loss for the rest of the night then I guess that makes me weak. Supporting this club certainly finds new ways to break you down.

I don't expect players to be miserable and put their lives on hold just because of a loss; that's counterproductive and unprofessional. The more players wallow on the negative and the past than focus on the next target the harder it is to break poor habits. As long as they're being professional in their recovery then the benefits of team bonding outweigh all the negatives. Just hope they come out firing against the Lions the same way they responded to the Saints heartbreaker.

[chook fowler 19,249]

Positives this year: Vince, Watts, the first year players, Gawn, Viney, player development.

Negatives: Selection, match day coaching, Dawes, Howe, Michie, Newton, skills by foot, injuries to Salem, Kent and Petracca

[beelzebub 23,198]

Actually, we won the clearances.

Just like we won pretty well every stat (3 less tackles, but that's about it).

not really.. maybe the stat...not the possession that counts

[frankie_d 1,467]

We get it alright.

"Look a' Moi ... Look a' Moi"

Oh yeah, and we really did invent the internet. From RFC 793 to any-os-you-care-to-mention, to Jobs and Ives.

We get it. And use it.

https://xkcd.com/224/

[beelzebub 23,198]

Part of the problem is in the mindset of the mids, who try and barge through players. That is not a high percentage play as we see every week. Then when they are caught, they try the little handball, that is usually turned over. It is poor football and poor coaching to allow it to continue as it has for most of the year. If they want to learn how to do it, video Mitchell of the Hawks and see what he does.

Geelong and the Hawks are famous for the quick release backwards, to a player coming forwards who then can dish off the ball.

Effort and work rate are a big part of this, as when the first disposal is given off, other players forward of the ball are running to make space and give the option. We are poor at this.

It comes from practice and game plans put in place by the Coaches.

The same can be said of the loose man in defence, that has been used at least 3 times this year, that I can recall, to cost us a game, including yesterday. Why wasn't someone sent to Baguley by the Coaches to stop his clearances and cut off an easy way out for the bombers' defenders.

Also why did our forwards play from behind the whole game, allowing the Defenders easy uncontested marks and possessions. Surely the Coaches could have addressed that early in the game when it became obvious.

Further the long bombs into the forward line are useless when your key forwards are not marking the ball or bringing it to ground, like what was happening yesterday, yet we persisted with the long bombs.

sums up yesterday very well ( unfortunately )

To this i would add some decisions, of very dubious quality, in so far as where you kick it.

I was almost amused when Watts managed to pick out a bomber amongst about 3 options of Dees with a long raking pass from one wing to opposite flank. Why such a low percentage play ? Unusual , even for Jackie.

Another instance of a kick placed poorly into the fwd region. Kick went pocket side of player but to advantage of defender. Had it been directed more to the all but unmanned square our bloke could have turned his bomber inside out and run onto ball and straight to goal. These are the sort of smarts we lack (big time )

Was surprised also how seldom a players mans the goal line when set shots of 35-40 are taken.

seems like the mindset gets so focussed on defending weve forgotten the art of attack !!!

[Nasher 33,607]

How many times would we have said that this year? After the flogging from Hawthorn we all questioned Roos... then we roll the Dogs. Everyone cracks it when we lose to the Saints... then we roll Geelong in Geelong.

I know the result yesterday sucked the big fat one, but we will win more games this year. We are more than good enough to do so.

At risk of doing a Curry & Beer / Stuie "Classic Demonland" - it really is classic Demonland.

Beat Geelong at Geelong. Pencil us in to win every game except Freo.

Lose to Essendon. That's it. Can't see how we're going to win another game all year.

Someone wise said on this forum years ago (may have been Craig Cameron and oft repeated by old55?) that in footy, nothing is ever as good or as bad as it seems

[beelzebub 23,198]

I didn't pick us to win v Geelong. Was happily wrong but in reality its but a bizarre aberration of the real trend.

Just calling what i see. No sugar coating