READY FOR THE KILL - THE HAWTHORN GAME

[timD 994]

To suggest people enjoy seeing him fail is off the mark.

No it's not.

People will claim it is frustration. "I just want him to live up to his natural talent", and " What a waste" and "If Nev jetta and half the he'd be a champ...Watts is wasting his talent" and "There are hundreds of kids gagging for a chance to do half of what Jack gets to do and he doesn't care" and on and on and on.

But when you dig half a mil below the surface, all they are saying is " I feel bad/angry/whatever and I blame Jack". Everything else is just empty rationalisations. And then when you see posters like ProDee go on and on and on, then it is pretty bloody obvious that there is more than just some unemotional critique of a player. There is an investment in the effort of bagging the bloke. So why do it?

Because it makes them feel better.

And when you bag someone repeatedly to make yourself feel better, that makes you a jerk, to put it mildly. Getting off on putting someone else down. It is common, and kind of unremarkable and very human and fairly gutless and pathetic.

[Watts Jurrah Dunn? 735]

If the supporters don't turn up, why should we expect the players to?

Because some of the players that regularly go missing are being paid hundreds of thousands of dollars a year?

I'll be there tomorrow but I don't blame supporters if, after 8 years of ineptitude and being out of games by quarter time / half time, they have better things to do on their weekends than watch Bail, Grimes and M Jones make the same mistakes over and over.

[Bossdog 2,002]

Wow....You just have to love Demonland......

We have been beaten by a side that has won 6 straight to be unbeaten in the first 6 rounds(A feat not done since we did it in the 50's)

We have been beaten by a side that were runners up last year

We now play the reining premiers.

The wrist slashing here would be quite amusing if it wasn't so tragic. Not one poster here would have predicted that we would have won any of these games before the season started.

I also can't believe the glee that posters have with the dropping of Jack Watts. Its like he is responsible for their expectations of him. FCS he was booed when he got his first possession which I find adhorant and ashamed to be a Melbourne supporter.

[poita 3,672]

Another inexplicable selection debacle. Who is on the selection panel? Do they watch the team play? What about the opposition?

1. Just the one ruckman is a mistake. Pedersen gave nothing up forward, but he is capable of playing back and releasing Dunn or Howe forward (which should have happened last week). Dawes is not capable of rucking and Hogan is too big a risk. Never mind the effect on our forward line, particularly with Watts out, of removing one of our few marking targets. We are in a world of trouble if any one of our key defenders or forwards is injured this week, let alone Spencer.

2. Where are the goals coming from? Watts and Newton are 3rd and 4th on our goalkicking list, and JKH is capable as well. Even Gawn would have added something to the mix. Expect to see five goals or less this week.

3. Playing Watts as the sub last week was ridiculous, and I assume his omission this week is an admission of this. Not sure what more he could have done last week, but I would have much preferred to see him playing a full game at Casey and come back, rather than effectively wasting a week.

4. Revolving door selection policies as we have seen with Grimes, Michie and McKenzie in recent weeks are clear signs that the selectors / coaches have no idea what they are doing. Grimes performed as expected against Freo, was dropped for no clear reason, performed as expected in the VFL, and now is back in. What has changed in the past week?

5. The absence of Bail & Matt Jones from our round one team was a sign that we were heading in the right direction. Six weeks later they are back in the side. I can't see that we have improved one iota when these guys, plus McKenzie, are still in the mix.

If Hawthorn are serious this week, we won't get within 90 points.

[watchtheeyes 1,210]

Another inexplicable selection debacle. Who is on the selection panel? Do they watch the team play? What about the opposition?

1. Just the one ruckman is a mistake. Pedersen gave nothing up forward, but he is capable of playing back and releasing Dunn or Howe forward (which should have happened last week). Dawes is not capable of rucking and Hogan is too big a risk. Never mind the effect on our forward line, particularly with Watts out, of removing one of our few marking targets. We are in a world of trouble if any one of our key defenders or forwards is injured this week, let alone Spencer.

2. Where are the goals coming from? Watts and Newton are 3rd and 4th on our goalkicking list, and JKH is capable as well. Even Gawn would have added something to the mix. Expect to see five goals or less this week.

3. Playing Watts as the sub last week was ridiculous, and I assume his omission this week is an admission of this. Not sure what more he could have done last week, but I would have much preferred to see him playing a full game at Casey and come back, rather than effectively wasting a week.

4. Revolving door selection policies as we have seen with Grimes, Michie and McKenzie in recent weeks are clear signs that the selectors / coaches have no idea what they are doing. Grimes performed as expected against Freo, was dropped for no clear reason, performed as expected in the VFL, and now is back in. What has changed in the past week?

5. The absence of Bail & Matt Jones from our round one team was a sign that we were heading in the right direction. Six weeks later they are back in the side. I can't see that we have improved one iota when these guys, plus McKenzie, are still in the mix.

If Hawthorn are serious this week, we won't get within 90 points.

No poita, the selection panel doesn't watch the team play.

I stopped reading your post as soon as I read that.

[watchtheeyes 1,210]

No it's not.

People will claim it is frustration. "I just want him to live up to his natural talent", and " What a waste" and "If Nev jetta and half the he'd be a champ...Watts is wasting his talent" and "There are hundreds of kids gagging for a chance to do half of what Jack gets to do and he doesn't care" and on and on and on.

But when you dig half a mil below the surface, all they are saying is " I feel bad/angry/whatever and I blame Jack". Everything else is just empty rationalisations. And then when you see posters like ProDee go on and on and on, then it is pretty bloody obvious that there is more than just some unemotional critique of a player. There is an investment in the effort of bagging the bloke. So why do it?

Because it makes them feel better.

And when you bag someone repeatedly to make yourself feel better, that makes you a jerk, to put it mildly. Getting off on putting someone else down. It is common, and kind of unremarkable and very human and fairly gutless and pathetic.

My gf is an unabashed watts fan and I just sent her your post, her response was pretty fair I thought:

"Re Demonland.. Yeah what he said!!! People are being big fat jerks! They say they bleed red and blue yet they continually slag off the player who needs their support more than anyone! How can Jack play well if everyone is telling him how sh*t he is all the time!"

[Demon Dynasty 15,865]

Interesting thread title: 'Ready for the kill'!

Shocked that we have brought in 4 supposed NQR players all at once. 2 maybe but 4!

Yep, ready to get slaughted.

What I wasn't ready for was my hopes for a good season being killed off.

This team is comprised of: walking wounded, has beens, non-tryers and talented newbies

The only experienced players who have been valuable each week are McDonald, Garlett, Salem and maybe Vince

Shocked that this is the best we can put up against the reigning premiers

Shocked that this is what our team amounts to after 6 games.

Can't bear to watch the carnage tomorrow.

I am not shocked at all. I am more shocked at how shocked you are lol. Our list was hardly world beating or likely to worry anyone outside the bottom 6 even with our best 22 from round 1. Not sure why Its so shocking all of a sudden after round 6 and a few usual injuries/poor form outs are taking place.

I hate watching carnage as well but thats nothing new against the Hawks either for the past 9 years.

I wld add Cross to the mix of pretty good each week. He is in our top 3 to 4 so far.

While I dont think they will turn us into a world or Hawthorn beating team the ins are a marginal improvement on the outs and in particular the inclusion of Michie which will allow an extra rotation thru the midfield who also has decent disposal skills. I wld rather it be Viney but alas he still out. Grimes & Jones add some run and carry that we wldnt hav with Pedo/JKH/Newton with roughly the same disposal efficiency. Replacing Watts you lose some clean ball use but offer another running alternative through the middle and defensively he "should" give us a leg up on Watt's output. So all in all a marginal improvement but still an improvement IMO.

Edited May 15, 2015 by Rusty Nails

[Demonsone 1,639]

We forget by this weekend we would have played the 3 teams who will either be premiers or played of in the GF!

These teams have developed their lists for the last decade including culture etc..

We are club which is coming out of one of the worst eras as a club both on & of the field!

Reality!!!!

[Young Dee 1,303]

Didn't know the Hawks had a Howe - luckily he is only an emergency

[ManDee 7,092]

No poita, the selection panel doesn't watch the team play.

I stopped reading your post as soon as I read that.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,511]

Because some of the players that regularly go missing are being paid hundreds of thousands of dollars a year?

I'll be there tomorrow but I don't blame supporters if, after 8 years of ineptitude and being out of games by quarter time / half time, they have better things to do on their weekends than watch Bail, Grimes and M Jones make the same mistakes over and over.

You are quite right, of course. I'm sorry I added that bit in because the real point of my post was to highlight that the AFL has scheduled us in a premium timeslot. If supporters don't turn up tomorrow to a 2.10 pm Saturday game at the MCG, against a Victorian club and when the weather is fine...we, as supporters, will only have ourselves to blame if we find ourselves in future years consigned to the worst timeslots.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

5. The absence of Bail & Matt Jones from our round one team was a sign that we were heading in the right direction. Six weeks later they are back in the side. I can't see that we have improved one iota when these guys, plus McKenzie, are still in the mix.

This is the one everyone is bemoaning but seemingly not recognising the facts around it.

- You accept that Watts is rightfully dropped. Jamar is another, you are not complaining about Spencer replacing him.

- You understand that JKH, Jetta, Viney, Frost, Petracca, Trengove and Kent are all injured

- You know that Hogan, Stretch and Brayshaw are all in, so we can't be accused of not 'playing the kids'

So, given you are bemoaning Bail, MJones and McKenzie being in, you must be suggesting that instead we include 3 of:

Pederson, Terlich, Gawn, Riley, Fitzpatrick and Newton

Is this really the case you arguing? Haven't RB,MJ and JM been performing better at Casey than this group anyway? How much difference could it possibly make? Add to that the probablr notion that their inclusion is partially to do with Roos finding out who is getting axed at the end of year.

The facts of the matter are that we have 7 injured, which is at least 5 too many for our list. Add to that Jamar and Watts playing themselves into the 2s and we have a 22 that in no way resembles the ones we made in the preseason. I don't know why this is an indictment on Roos or a sign that we are not 'heading in the right direction'. It is what it is.

[Little Goffy 12,764]

This could be ugly.

In short we have too many key outs (Jetta, Kent, Viney, JKH) against a team that is vastly superior to us.

Happy to see Matt Jones return though - reckon he will add some speed around the contest and play a role tomorrow.

Yeah, I think missing Jetta and Viney in particular will hurt us given the need to created contested situations and not let Hawthorn move freely.

The biggest shock to me is not the squad but that we're playing at the MCG at 2.10 pm on a Saturday.

We need a big crowd plus a quality team performance to encourage the AFL to give us more of these premium timeslots.

It would be a huge setback if (a) the supporters don't turn up and (b) the team doesn't.

To all those posters who have said they won't be coming because of the team selection, to borrow a term used elsewhere in this thread...you've got pea hearts. Get there and support your team. Not just for tomorrow but to send a bigger message. If the supporters don't turn up, why should we expect the players to?

Isn't it fascinating to see people basically abandoning the club to sulk for a week because a few players they've decided they don't like are getting a game?

Seems like a few people here see themselves as the stars of the club...

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

can I ask DLanders for their opinion on this - no agenda, just out of interest

Watts 101 games

Excellent 6

Good 20

Average 30

Poor 30

Terrible 15

Agree/Disagree?

[Wunders 389]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-05-15/the-inquirer-the-inside-50-job

Good article highlighting what we know, we are good once we get it in the 50. Interestingly Ben Newton was our best, and you could argue the high % scores per entry is due to good ball skills (which he contributes to - just doesnt get it enough). Im pretty sure Watts was our second best (again great user, but can't get it enough).

So we replace 2 good kicks (Watts and Newton) with 2 who cant kick. I wonder how our scores per I50 will be this week? My guess is down, but if we get more I50's then thats good i guess!

[bandicoot 1,395]

I always said that if bail, m jones and michie are getting a game then we would be in real trouble.

Having all 3 in the side at once is a distaster.

If hodge and Lewis were playing then this would be a 100 point loss.

We might be able to contain them to only a 60 point win.

Our midfield is our weakness.

Jones, cross, Vince, Tyson, toumpas, m jones, bail, brayshaw.

This is our problem and why we will continue to be a bottom side.

Cross, m jones, bail have to be replaced and we need another 2 players.

Salem, petracca, trengove will come in but we are stil 2 players short and 2-3 years experience.

[jumbo returns 6,536]

I always said that if bail, m jones and michie are getting a game then we would be in real trouble.

Having all 3 in the side at once is a distaster.

If hodge and Lewis were playing then this would be a 100 point loss.

We might be able to contain them to only a 60 point win.

Our midfield is our weakness.

Jones, cross, Vince, Tyson, toumpas, m jones, bail, brayshaw.

This is our problem and why we will continue to be a bottom side.

Cross, m jones, bail have to be replaced and we need another 2 players.

Salem, petracca, trengove will come in but we are stil 2 players short and 2-3 years experience.

Biggest problem.....not sure if he'll recover, but I really, really, hope so.

[Dr. Gonzo 22,572]

....and your perverse delight in bagging him.

There are plenty of players who don't make it, or aren't that good. Watts is one and the attention and abuse heaped upon him (for things he probably cannot change) is sick and weird. It says a lot about you. I am sick of the mean, sadistic attitude that you and many others here have about the bloke. You enjoy seeing him fail.

You actually enjoy it. And the funny part, the real kicker, is that you question HIS character.

Get help.

Bull [censored]!!

No one enjoys seeing Watts fail (no Melbourne supporters anyway). We are all just so frustrated that he has the talent but not the application - its all in his head, the best thing he could probably do is go on a "trip" (psychedelic style) to find himself and strengthen his mindset. I've never seen anyone so weak minded play for the MFC and possibly the AFL.

[Dr. Gonzo 22,572]

Stop being facetious. You know what I'm talking about.

You bandy the word 'soft' at every opportunity to aspire to your sycophantic mates.

Just leave him alone - he's been dropped....you got your wish. Happy?

I dont know if you're confusing me with someone else but I've hardly commented on Watts for the last year or so. Probably a couple of time since the Adelaide game and in this thread but not to the extent you're making out.

Either contribute to the conversation about our team and players or dont bother.

[CBDees 3,162]

can I ask DLanders for their opinion on this - no agenda, just out of interest

Watts 101 games

Excellent 6

Good 20

Average 30

Poor 30

Terrible 15

Agree/Disagree?

Can you give me a couple of months to respond? I just have to watch 101 replays!

[stinga81 210]

can I ask DLanders for their opinion on this - no agenda, just out of interest

Watts 101 games

Excellent 6

Good 20

Average 30

Poor 30

Terrible 15

Agree/Disagree?

100% agree.

[stinga81 210]

Watts played a corker first round and has fallen off since. Curry and Beer's above post perfectly sums up his output.

Not a Watts hater, more a sympathiser. I hope he bounces back after doing the right things for Scorps this week.

For his own sanity, he needs a fresh start in new colors next year.

Edited May 15, 2015 by stinga81

[Grand New Flag 3,226]

Terrible selections this week. I have no idea of the logic behind them. Watts being dropped is ridiculous. If he was to be dropped he should have been last week, not sure what else he was meant to do when he came on last week. I thought he performed very well, 3 goal assists, momentum of game changed when he ran on. Watts problem is above the shoulders, he lost confidence after dropping those marks against Adelaide, signs were he was through that last week.......... now we drop him?!??!?!? Dropping him is going to do nothing for his confidence. Bad Call. I can't bring myself to see an utter smashing and I think that's where we are headed this week.

[Ethan Tremblay 28,488]

Another Jack Watts thread.

Omg.

There's a lot of sad people on here who don't like their own lives, it makes them feel better.

[Seraph 1,714]

I always said that if bail, m jones and michie are getting a game then we would be in real trouble.

What's your issue with Michie?

He has better skills than most of our mids.