Paul Roos on AFL360

[titan_uranus 24,983]

Rucks are supposedly meant to take a hell of a lot long.

How about like for like ??

So ruckmen get a free pass whilst a tall non-ruckman doesn't?

You shouldn't go on about Watts being a sixth-year player if you aren't prepared to criticise all our substandard sixth-year players. Six years is a long time, you're not wrong about that. But if you're going to pin that on Watts, you have to pin it on Spencer too. Why hasn't Spencer gone anywhere in six years?

[beelzebub 23,313]

So ruckmen get a free pass whilst a tall non-ruckman doesn't?

You shouldn't go on about Watts being a sixth-year player if you aren't prepared to criticise all our substandard sixth-year players. Six years is a long time, you're not wrong about that. But if you're going to pin that on Watts, you have to pin it on Spencer too. Why hasn't Spencer gone anywhere in six years?

re read .. i knew youd take out of context

[titan_uranus 24,983]

re read .. i knew youd take out of context

What's to re-read?

'Rucks are supposedly meant to take a hell of a lot long [sic]. How about like for like??'.

Where did I take you out of context?

You think it's fair to criticise Watts for being a sixth year player and not at the level you'd expect him to be at, whereas Spencer, by virtue of an extra 7cm of height, spares your wrath. I disagree.

[old dee 23,782]

What's to re-read?

'Rucks are supposedly meant to take a hell of a lot long [sic]. How about like for like??'.

Where did I take you out of context?

You think it's fair to criticise Watts for being a sixth year player and not at the level you'd expect him to be at, whereas Spencer, by virtue of an extra 7cm of height, spares your wrath. I disagree.

I think there is another element to this tu

One was a number one pick and the other came of the rookie list.

It is just natural to expect Watts to come on quicker than someone off the rookie list.

Perhaps it is not fair but that is the way life is.

[beelzebub 23,313]

You think it's fair to criticise Watts for being a sixth year player and not at the level you'd expect him to be at, whereas Spencer, by virtue of an extra 7cm of height, spares your wrath. I disagree.

Thankyou... the answer is in your misconstruing what is.

Spencer is as a Ruckman in his sixth season probably expected to be starting to fulfill his potential and starting to play ( well ) as a #1 ruck. He's not really quite there so hes a bit behind where he might be.

Watts coming in as a very highly rated skilled kid , with all requisite abilities in tact just not yet to AFL std. This would normally take anywhere from 1 to 3 seasons to emerge as a consistency. ^ seasons in many are still offering up any number of rationales as to why he hasn't got there. In essence he really hasnt changed a lot. Spencer has come a long long way but is still short of desired.

Watts ought to stamping his mark all over the game by now

Its not really that hard to get the difference

[Deez 298]

If they would accept you they are not private enough JW (In jest)

In England. Public schools are what we call private schools. Here the fees at Private schools range from the less expensive Catholic variety to the more expensive like Geelong Grammar or Kings College full fees approx $50k pa. They can refuse entry if they choose. The public, fully government funded schools must accept applicants.

Here I am taking this seriously, you are probably taking the p155. I will stop now.

not entirely true, the good government schools can elect to only take in students from the immediate area due to capacity limits.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

I am hoping for a Daisy Thomas turnaround.

Well maybe not quite as ferocious but Daisy's first few seasons he was quite shy of contact and then whooshka !

Brad Green was similar

[titan_uranus 24,983]

Thankyou... the answer is in your misconstruing what is.

Spencer is as a Ruckman in his sixth season probably expected to be starting to fulfill his potential and starting to play ( well ) as a #1 ruck. He's not really quite there so hes a bit behind where he might be.

Watts coming in as a very highly rated skilled kid , with all requisite abilities in tact just not yet to AFL std. This would normally take anywhere from 1 to 3 seasons to emerge as a consistency. ^ seasons in many are still offering up any number of rationales as to why he hasn't got there. In essence he really hasnt changed a lot. Spencer has come a long long way but is still short of desired.

Watts ought to stamping his mark all over the game by now

Its not really that hard to get the difference

So this doesn't apply to Spencer?:

Hes been at this club for 6 seasons. That means preseasons, that means playing and training alongside his fellow Demons. Paint it any way you like hes a 6 season player.

Look, I understand that Watts was drafted at 1 and Spencer was drafted as a speculative rookie pick. I don't agree with the argument that pick 1 ought to be more strongly criticised than a rookie pick, as I see that as handicapping kids. Nonetheless, as you've already said, both have had the pre-seasons, both have played and trained alongside their fellow Demons. They've each had six years, and neither is where they should be by now. The divergence in criticism between the two is far greater than what may be expected of pick 1 vs a rookie.

[beelzebub 23,313]

titan...get this through your sconce...please

my beef at Watts isnt anything to do with him being a #1 pick per se. Just that he came in highly skilled and with big tickets... and hasnt got to where he ought ....after 6 f'n seasons

If you dont quite get the difference between the development path of a gangly semi project ruck taken as a rookie and a highly touted high draft kid.... well

[ChaserJ 5,074]

I remember Barry Hall and Cam Mooney being asked by Gerard Whateley about how long it took them to feel comfortable as AFL footballers. They both said 6 years. Both played key position, as Watts was drafted to be, and both had some pretty reasonable (and consistent) coaches guiding them through.

Watts is in his sixth year, but has had no where near the stability and consistency in coaching, instruction or message that either of those two had. It's all well and good to blame Watt's, but he is not the only player of ours who hasn't reached the potential we thought they would, but unfortunately for him, he's the highest profile.

Our former recruiters may have a bit to answer for, but multiple failed coaching appointments, dysfunctional football department and poor development can't be ignored just because it's easier to blame individual players for their lack of development.

I suspect (hope) that for the first time since we drafted Jack we finally have a set up that is capable of extracting the best out of it's players.

Edited April 30, 2014 by ChaserJ

[DeeSpencer 25,531]

Spencer is a ruckman. They take longer than anyone. Spencer is also critiised for his lack of skills. But rarely for a lack of effort or heart..

Want to compare Watts, why not with those drafted straight after him in Blease and Strauss. They both cop a heap of criticism on here. Not so much publicly. But that's because they are in the 2's. Which gets back to the entire point of the discussion which is that Watts should probably join them.

[Ouch! 2,258]

titan...get this through your sconce...please

my beef at Watts isnt anything to do with him being a #1 pick per se. Just that he came in highly skilled and with big tickets... and hasnt got to where he ought ....after 6 f'n seasons

If you dont quite get the difference between the development path of a gangly semi project ruck taken as a rookie and a highly touted high draft kid.... well

Still think a good comparison is Goddard

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pc-essendon-bombers--brendon-goddard

He was slammed for the first five to six seasons for being a soft and unaccountable player... he eventually came good, this is Watts 6th season... fair enough to judge how he goes by the end of the season I think. He is also was a bottom age player when drafted too

The spotlight on Watts is harsher due to the poor nature of the team in general in the time he has been at the club.... we have had a lot of players that seem to have struggled to be developed and the club hasn't seemingly improved... other teams managed to turn things around in a 3-5 year time frame and the performance as a whole is noticed rather than the efforts of the few.

He looked good in the first couple of games, and had everyone excited and hoping this year would be the one that he could turn it around... a couple of average performances followed by a poor one and basically people are slagging him again.

Edited April 30, 2014 by Ouch!

[KLV 1,765]

Who would you rather have stay, Watts or Scully?

[rjay 24,898]

Yeah but at least none of those guys do anything they can to avoid physical contact on the field and can lay a proper tackle. Look at Watts' dropped mark in the first quarter, he dropped it because he [censored] himself that he was going to cop contact from behind after being pushed over not long prior in the opposite forward pocket.

Nah! he just dropped a mark he should have taken. You are writing way too much into it.

[Redleg 40,864]

Who would you rather have stay, Watts or Scully?

Who?

[Ouch! 2,258]

Who would you rather have stay, Watts or Scully?

Watts by a mile....

[Adam The God 30,153]

Because the intimation was that women are weak. They are only weak because they can't turn down my perfectly sculpted buttocks.

I don't think this is Ben Hur's new screen identity, unless he's thicker than I remember him being.

On ya.

[What 18,810]

Who would you rather have stay, Watts or Scully?

Scully obviously

Gut runs, tackles hard and has courage

[rpfc 28,285]

Scully obviously

Gut runs, tackles hard and has courage

...and doesn't want to play for your club.

[Machsy 2,858]

Scully obviously

Gut runs, tackles hard and has courage

$1m a year for a tagger.

Not even a good tagger.

That equates to roughly $45k per game, assuming he plays all 22 games.

To poorly tag the opposition's best player.

[dazzledavey36 54,441]

Scully obviously

Gut runs, tackles hard and has courage

And thats all he is. Similar traits to James Magner.

[nutbean 8,838]

I have supported Watts and have been constantly saying that you need to give tall KP footballers time to develop. I constantly said lets talk about him when he is 23.

My problem is he is now 23 and what I am not seeing is any real improvement in the area of making a contest. Young KP are all gangly and no idea where to run and how to fly for the ball and impose themselves. This develops over time.

I havent seen the development in imposing himself on a contest - that doesn't necessarily mean crashing packs - it means being hard at the ball even if it is a lose ball outside. My quandary is how long do I have to wait ?

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

I have supported Watts and have been constantly saying that you need to give tall KP footballers time to develop. I constantly said lets talk about him when he is 23.

My problem is he is now 23 and what I am not seeing is any real improvement in the area of making a contest. Young KP are all gangly and no idea where to run and how to fly for the ball and impose themselves. This develops over time.

I havent seen the development in imposing himself on a contest - that doesn't necessarily mean crashing packs - it means being hard at the ball even if it is a lose ball outside. My quandary is how long do I have to wait ?

Anybody who crosses the white line to play a game of AFL footy, has courage in my book. There will always be those who will be labelled as "soft" and perceived as pulling up short of a contest. We only need to look back at Steven Stretch and his undoubted talent, yet much of the football world will only remember a perception that he pulled out of a collision with Dipper.

But the instinct to be at the contest, to challenge for possession of the ball is not one that can be taught. While still obviously green and developing as a gangly key forward, Joe Daniher has already shown he is not shy when it comes to putting himself in danger to contest the footy.

[P-man 13,366]

Anybody who crosses the white line to play a game of AFL footy, has courage in my book. There will always be those who will be labelled as "soft" and perceived as pulling up short of a contest. We only need to look back at Steven Stretch and his undoubted talent, yet much of the football world will only remember a perception that he pulled out of a collision with Dipper.

But the instinct to be at the contest, to challenge for possession of the ball is not one that can be taught. While still obviously green and developing as a gangly key forward, Joe Daniher has already shown he is not shy when it comes to putting himself in danger to contest the footy.

As much as I detest that club, I love watching Daniher's kamikaze attack on the ball and willingness to crash packs as a relatlve stick figure. He's already done things on the footy field that I've never seen Watts do.

[Sir Why You Little 37,008]

Bottom line is that Jack Watts is still playing like a schoolboy.....