NAB Challenge 1 - Richmond v Melbourne

[daisycutter 28,635]

as she used to be wrote, surely?

alas the real issue here would be just "when" was "used to be"

proper english is/was somewhat of an oxymoron

[Elusive Tunbridge 795]

alas the real issue here would be just "when" was "used to be"

proper english is/was somewhat of an oxymoron

yeah, yeah. All I mean is there's no spoken difference between "practice" and "practise". Just sayin'.

[daisycutter 28,635]

yeah, yeah. All I mean is there's no spoken difference between "practice" and "practise". Just sayin'.

yeah, i did get your drift. maybe i should have quoted previous poster

[Gippsland Dee 367]

the game was great friday night. The atmosphere and noise at the ground seemed like far more than the 12000 that were there.

The major difference i noticed from the very start was that the ball movement was far more central than it ever was last year. We did go around the boundary at times, but it was far more inboard which opened up options in the fwd line. We took our time when we had the ball if there wasn't an immediate option, and there was far less bombing the ball fwd and simply hoping for the best.

JKH was a live wire in the fwd line, was always good when near the ball. Seemed like he had more than 13 disposals. Will be good to see what he can do when we have a few big talls in there.

It was great to see n.Jones wasn't the only mid. 10 players with 20 or more disposals. much improved on last year.

Spencer didn't seem to have a great night, but his chase and tackle on the wing was great for a big man.

It should've been a bigger win, considering our inaccuracy in the 1st qtr, but it was still a great effort from all the boys. GO DEES, keep it up.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

I was impressed with JKH's run and decision making as much as anything. He is just such a smart player, but funnily enough a lot of what he does is so basic, yet so many players seem unable to do it.

[Blistering 493]

I'd put that down to them learning the style and wanting to run it it due to the pygmies down there. Having two of our three power forwards would have seen more inside 50 entries and a bigger win.

The different style is also a function of the type of players that Roos has brought into the club. For years we've been screaming out for a midfield and haven't had the cattle in that part of the ground with the strength and know how to get the ball out of stoppages to our advantage. It's also been years since we've had a cohesive forward line capable of taking marks inside 50 and crumbing the ball when it hits the turf. The club did not have the benefit of twin towers Clark and Dawes playing in the same game all year in 2013. Nor were they there on Friday night but you're right - when targets like those two and Hogan are on the park getting the ball delivered by a winning midfield we will improve 1,000%.

[Spirit of '87 321]

And just to cap off the win, it appeared to me that they are now wearing the right jumper colour - a good deep red, not the pinkish versions of recent years.

[Mono 454]

Really like this post.

Roos' game style is based by players without the ball running hard, long & often to make good position. It doesn't rely on everybody to be an elite kick, but it does require everybody to run & make position. It's only when this fails to happen that there is lots more pressure on the kicker and things start to get a little shaky. A number of turnovers happened because nobody made good position so the kicker had to take a much more risky option.

A number of times, Bail was able to lose his opponent simply by running long and hard and smart. Bail's value is that he possesses the unusual combination of endurance with speed; the others are Jones & Nicho. We also have a few with excellent endurance: Trengove, Cross and McDonald. Cross usually won the Bulldogs' 3km trials, at a club who I would have thought had a reputation for hard running; he only finished 3rd or 4th in ours.

So it plays to our strengths.

It will take a lot of fine tuning for us to be a really dangerous team - I too am worried about how many extra possessions we had to get to manage a close win. But it's frankly amazing how quickly they've got the basic building blocks into place.

I like your post.

Players new to the club seemed to have been impressed (surprised?) at the fitness of the players. Roos also was impressed, but said the players were fit athletically, but not gamewise, So he is using that fitness base to real advantage.

Think you are right on the money Akum.

(I always thought the players looked like they didn't know what to do, where to go etc. We now have someone who can show them, teach them. Upside could be bigger than we think.)

Ed: spelling

Edited February 16, 2014 by Mono

[jackaub 1,402]

Oh please. Deledio held him after the mark. Dunn gave him a little nudge to let go. Cry baby Deledio had a whinge to the umpire who wanted nothing of it. Let's not make the game any softer.

Dunn's dumbest piece of play was a silly evasive move and chip kick to Nicholson attempting to go over Martin that led to a bad turnover. The rest of the time he avoid Dunn-isms.

Dunn wasnt alone in poor kicks Trengove had 2 Frawley 2 and Grimes one

All in all our kicking was much much better than last year sometimes our decisions were poor but what the hell it was pleasurable to watch and hope it is the beginning of a reasonable year

[DeeSpencer 23,270]

Dunn wasnt alone in poor kicks Trengove had 2 Frawley 2 and Grimes one

All in all our kicking was much much better than last year sometimes our decisions were poor but what the hell it was pleasurable to watch and hope it is the beginning of a reasonable year

And Michie, Terlich, Strauss, Tyson and Cross. Pretty much anyone who has more than 10 kicks in a game is likely to mess one of them up at this stage of the year. But players getting intercepted by unseen opponents (as happened to Tyson and Strauss) or skill errors just by missing the target (Frawley, Terlich) happen it's part of the game. Where Dunn can go wrong is he tries to create a magic kick when he's put under pressure. It's one of his brain fades which have long been the undoing of him. Last year he'd do a good job defensively on an opponent and a good job rebounding the ball but every now and then he'd do something stupid either defending or with the ball. I'm hoping Roos can coach it out of him.

[Whispering_Jack 28,021]

The different style is also a function of the type of players that Roos has brought into the club. For years we've been screaming out for a midfield and haven't had the cattle in that part of the ground with the strength and know how to get the ball out of stoppages to our advantage. It's also been years since we've had a cohesive forward line capable of taking marks inside 50 and crumbing the ball when it hits the turf. The club did not have the benefit of twin towers Clark and Dawes playing in the same game all year in 2013. Nor were they there on Friday night but you're right - when targets like those two and Hogan are on the park getting the ball delivered by a winning midfield we will improve 1,000%.

With Cross, Tyson, Vince and Michie added to the midfield mix to join Nathan Jones, a fit and rejuvenated Trengove, Watts thrown in and players like Matt Jones, Toumpas and Viney all coming on and capable of playing in the guts, it will be a completely different midfield which makes comparison with those available to Bailey and Neeld well nigh impossible although full credit goes to Roos and the recruiting staff for their planning and organisation and to PJ for giving him the full rein to implement the transformation of the midfield. I'm quite certain, as are many here, that we will be a much improved team when those talls are all back up forward to reap the benefit.

We can't help but be encouraged by what's happened in the past 48 hours but we need to temper things until we can see how the Roos style works when the real thing starts. One swallow definitely does not make a summer or a successful winter for that matter.

[DemonOX 8,541]

I liked what I saw but it did worry me a bit that we had so many more possessions than Richmond but only managed to fall over the line when it clearly meant more to us than them. Having said that I think we'll enjoy this year for the first time in a while.

Don't forget BB we didn't have a forward line to kick to. Dawes and Hogan will make a difference to our score line now that we have a midfield.

[Alcho Dee 269]

Noticeable changes to game plan, using the corridor, from our defensive 50 moving the ball into the corridor or diagonally across the center square from defensive 50 to attacking 50.

Also at stoppages when one of our players gets the ball under intense pressure, instead of ducking and weaving, without taking a step just getting the ball to foot with a high 35-40m kick giving our players up the ground a chance. Simple footy, last year I watched the opposition do this to us so often, but when we were in that situation we always tried to duck or go sideways which resulted in being tackled or skill errors, now it's a simple standing kick up the ground. Smart.

[Barney Rubble 1,576]

With the running to help each other giving 3 extra players to help move the ball, our defence now revolves around attack.

By having extras drop back to help us, the opposition now has to defend us. 2 way running it's beautiful to watch.

The past few years we didn't run back to help. We stayed flat footed looking for someone to pick up.

Defend for defence sake. Our game was totally hamstrung. No wonder we looked quick on the training track and slow on match days.

[Sambo06 222]

Hey Guys. What a game! The inclusions of our new recruits has so far been a success. To see the rolls played gave me great encouragement for the teams future. Vince, Cross, Tyson and Michie were all fantastic. Like everyone else, I was mightily impressed with JKH. What a star of the future. Grimes back to the halfback line, Trenners everywhere, Dunn and Chippa our back line generals, Alexis chiming in beautifully. Toump seems to have a completely new roll this year. He seemed to be playing high half forward and rolling back to the scrimmages. It looked like he was running more freely than ever. What gives me hope is his ball usage. After a very indifferent first half, I can now see what he is going to bring to the table. That kick to Ro when Toump was setting up for a set shot(watch his eyes when he's faking the shot on goal just before the release to Ro) then the pass to Howie to set up for a goal were awesome. I have no fears with Toump. N.Jones showed us another side to his game with help on the inside. His kicking has always been great, but wow, he is unbelievable. Is there nothing this man can't do!! The new guys were amazing, and I think we are going to have a great year. I'm not expecting finals, but with some talks to come back, depth players now, and of course, JV soon!!! C'mon Dees, lets show them how good we can be this year.

[jnrmac 19,168]

re trengove, agree, he wasn't treated properly.

everybody knows that, we are still lucky to have him.

re vince top two, dude of course vince was going to be a fine mid fielder in our list, who's there to be ahead of him? he has years of experience on our guys.

also, vince would be a good mid in most teams.

his last year with adelaide wasn't great - but prior to that he was very handy.

When we picked him up, i thought we had done well.

I still think we have done well.

We had one player last year that averaged more than 20 possessions - N Jones. We recruited two - Vince and Cross. Mitchie and Tyson can also find the pill. Jones will be a better player with Cross and Vince around him. So all of a sudden we have a midfield that can get numbers. We haven't had that for some time. Mitchie we will have to wait and see but he racked up numbers for Peel Thunder.

Vince will be a very good addition for us. He and Cross also have something to prove to their respective past clubs.

[Its Time for Another 4,054]

Interesting we still continue to have the inside 50 problem Bailey said we needed to fix 3 seasons ago. Nearly doubled opponents possessions but trailed inside 50's 40 to 51. 40 or less was typical of past years. That needs to be over 50 a game for us to be getting dangerous.

[RalphiusMaximus 5,993]

Interesting we still continue to have the inside 50 problem Bailey said we needed to fix 3 seasons ago. Nearly doubled opponents possessions but trailed inside 50's 40 to 51. 40 or less was typical of past years. That needs to be over 50 a game for us to be getting dangerous.

But this game that was a function of not having a tall target to kick to while in previous years it was because we'd turned the ball over before getting it in range of the forward line.

[bing181 8,180]

But this game that was a function of not having a tall target to kick to while in previous years it was because we'd turned the ball over before getting it in range of the forward line.

Agree. To add to that (though guessing somewhat, as I only watched on TV), it shows the discipline that is already in place - as there wasn't always a clear option or target, the players were holding the ball up rather than just bombing it long.

IOW, the lack of a fully functional forward line and KPF's cost us doubly: not enough firepower up forward to kick more goals, and then exposing ourselves to turnovers and opposition goals by having to hold the ball up across half-back and the centre.

Though as I said, watching on TV, so could be wrong.

[angrydee 842]

Interesting we still continue to have the inside 50 problem Bailey said we needed to fix 3 seasons ago. Nearly doubled opponents possessions but trailed inside 50's 40 to 51. 40 or less was typical of past years. That needs to be over 50 a game for us to be getting dangerous.

Agree with this, but a notable improvement was that the inside 50's were, in the main, a lot deeper than in recent times. They were therefore more difficult for Richmond to clear easily.

[rpfc 27,589]

Interesting we still continue to have the inside 50 problem Bailey said we needed to fix 3 seasons ago. Nearly doubled opponents possessions but trailed inside 50's 40 to 51. 40 or less was typical of past years. That needs to be over 50 a game for us to be getting dangerous.

I think that was more to do with the very patient build up when we had the footy. Roos mentioned that they would look to be more direct when Hogan and Dawes return but because it was just Howe and Pedersen they were instructed to keep the footy and be patient.

I would be much more worried if we only had 40 I50s AND 260 possessions, but we had 445 (!) so the Inside 50 count is less important.

[Fat Tony 4,467]

My thoughts:

• An impressive performance overall. The way we controlled the ball was excellent and Roos showed in one quarter how diabolical Neeld was as a coach.
• I would like us to attack a bit more aggressively immediately after receiving a turnover, but this may be Stage 2 of Roos’s game plan.
• Howe is really well suited to being the main man up forward. It will be interesting to see if he can adapt and have the same or greater influence when we get our key forwards back and he gets a lesser opponent but has less space to operate.
• Vince is a better pick up than I thought.
• Our midfield still lacks pace, but we should be able to win a more reasonable share of clearances this year. Hopefully Watts going into the midfield and Viney returning will help in this area.
• Dunn was fantastic and is a certainty for Round 1.
• Bail was also very good and has penciled himself in to the side.
• It was good to see Trengove get so much ball, but he is still slow and we need to be tactical in finding him the right match up. (i.e. not Deledio)
• Spencer lacks the requisite skill to make it as an AFL player. If he gets a game in Round 1 it is because Gawn hasn’t developed an engine, Clark is not fit and Jamar is past it. A fit Clark would be ideally played as a first ruck given our weakness in the ruck and our strength up forward.
• Kennedy-Harris is an exciting pick up. He isn’t all that quick but reads the game very well and uses the ball effectively.
• Michie was a bit quiet and doesn't help our pace issues in the midfield. He will need to have good games against Geelong and Hawthorn to be certain of a game in Round 1.
• Tyson is also slow and his kicking was rusty. His work in centre square was pretty good.
• Frawley was dominant at the start of the game and is a lock in my Supercoach team given our change in game style.
• We still have one or two small defender spots up for grabs. I would like to see Blease trialed down back next week.

Based on what we know, and assuming Clark and Garland aren’t fit, the Round 1 team is shaping up as below. The bolded players are locked in.

Dunn Frawley ???

??? McDonald Grimes

Trengove Cross Watts

Howe Hogan Bail

Fitzpatrick Dawes Kennedy-Harris

??? N Jones Vince

Tyson M Jones Viney

???

Edited February 17, 2014 by Fat Tony

[DeeSpencer 23,270]

My thoughts:

• An impressive performance overall. The way we controlled the ball was excellent and Roos showed in one quarter how diabolical Neeld was as a coach.
• I would like us to attack a bit more aggressively immediately after receiving a turnover, but this may be Stage 2 of Roos’s game plan.
• It was good to see Trengove get so much ball, but he is still slow and we need to be tactical in finding him the right match up. (i.e. not Deledio)
• Kennedy-Harris is an exciting pick up. He isn’t all that quick but reads the game very well and uses the ball effectively.
• We still have one or two small defender spots up for grabs. I would like to see Blease trialed down back next week.

Agree with most of your post and your team. Agree that sharing the ball around the backline when under pressure is great but when we get a turnover there should be space to just attack and get a goal. I remember one we got and Blease ran out to his right to then find a wall of Tigers when all his support was on the left. Which brings me to my thought that no way in hell is Blease a backline option. Firstly he wont be able to defend and secondly he just doesn't seem to have the ability to think through pressure and use his team mates. He should be the king of the 1-2 or give and go but instead he's all grab the ball and run straight in to trouble. He needs to realise unless he has a clear path to goal he's so much better using his team mates to get him in to space. Or just as much using his pace to draw defenders but finding his team mates. Half the time when he puts his foot down and runs all he does is burn off his supporting team mates and leading forwards and run straight in to the opposition. So frustrating.

Which leads me to your other point about JHK. He's only an above average speed not lighting but his mind work way faster than his Richmond opponents at least. A couple of times he picked the ball up at speed and cut back to free men in the corridor. Blease hasn't done that in five years. I so with JHK could share what looks like quality football understand with Blease. And Dom Barry for that point as well who reminds me of Blease.

And Trengove v Deledio was an interesting match up. It would be disaster if Trenners has to run him down from behind and it wasn't good when Trengove let him get goal side at a stoppage. But across the ground it seemed Trengove used his smarts and run to find much more footy and be involved in a lot of play. That's probably his way of exploiting quicker opponents. The coaches probably just have to get a way for him to either be better defensively with positioning or maybe have a swap at defensive 50 stoppages that see him rotate with a faster opponent.

[Fat Tony 4,467]

Agree with most of your post and your team. Agree that sharing the ball around the backline when under pressure is great but when we get a turnover there should be space to just attack and get a goal. I remember one we got and Blease ran out to his right to then find a wall of Tigers when all his support was on the left. Which brings me to my thought that no way in hell is Blease a backline option. Firstly he wont be able to defend and secondly he just doesn't seem to have the ability to think through pressure and use his team mates. He should be the king of the 1-2 or give and go but instead he's all grab the ball and run straight in to trouble. He needs to realise unless he has a clear path to goal he's so much better using his team mates to get him in to space. Or just as much using his pace to draw defenders but finding his team mates. Half the time when he puts his foot down and runs all he does is burn off his supporting team mates and leading forwards and run straight in to the opposition. So frustrating.

I don't think Blease will make it as a forward because he doesn't read the play well enough, doesn't have the engine, can't kick left foot and is useless in the air.

Down back, he will have more space and be able to use his blistering pace to break a line (or two). I share concern that his defensive side is inadequate, but I think we need to get some pace into the side. I also think Blease played his best footy in backline under Viney.

[bananas 428]

One thing on JKH's speed: I noticed several times during the match that his pace when not sprinting --- when just getting to the next contest, or switching from one side of the ground to the other --- was naturally much quicker than his opponent. He just seemed to have that knack for going at 90% when others are at 80%. And several times that meant that, when his opponent was inattentive for just a second or two, suddenly JKH had three metres on him, and that was the crucial space.

Good skill to have!

Edited February 17, 2014 by bananas