Peter Ryan again on the money

[Karl Stefanovic 107]

Melbourne in the middle

I couldn't agree more with what Ryan has to say about our prospective midfield for 2014. We are on the right track but we can't be expecting miracles. The stats are damning and unfortunately these are things that will not turn around in an off season (one being average age).

[Carrot Top 947]

Interesting, and about what I figured without thinking about it too deeply. We added some depth and class to the mids, but we didn't suddenly get a midfield of A+ graders, Viney, Toumpas and #9 and still babies, and we were coming from a veeeeeery long way back.

I'll be happy to see us win a couple we didn't expect, fight out a couple more, and start to gel as a team that enjoys playing together. Everything else will be a bonus.

[PaulRB 5,985]

Comparing us with a top four side in Sydney was a bit distracting, I'd be keen to see how we compare to Richmond or Carlton. He also failed to note that we have a higher conversion rate once the ball is inside 50 than many teams, and with the addition of Clarke and Hogan this should rise further...

[Swampfox 190]

Comparing us with a top four side in Syd was a bit distracting, I'd be keen to see how we compare to Richmond or Carlton. He also failed to note that we have a higher conversion rate once the ball is inside 50 than many teams, and with the addition of Clarke and Hogan this should rise further...

Agree

comparing us against Sydney who has a complete midfield who have done many preseasons was not really relevant to our expectations in 2014 and we all know what the benchmark is

Adding Bernie Vince and Daniel Cross to assist Nathan Jones is the first positive

Viney , Tyson , Trengove , Michie , Toumpass , Watts and whoever we pick at 9 will benefit the most

You really need around 9 rotating midfielders these days

Another preseason in 2015 will be required to at least have the beginnings of a competitive midfield

Be great if Todd Viney found a GEM at pick 40 or 57 though

So long as supporters don't expect too much i think we are on the right track

[DeeSpencer 23,273]

Nice work from Ryan but I'm not overly interested in hearing about Watts being the next O'Keefe or Viney being similar to Hannebery. Better comparison:

Jones = Griffen

Vince = Cooney

Viney = Libba

Cross = Boyd

McKenzie = Wallis

Trengove, Tyson, Michie, Watts, Toumpas = Macrae, Smith, Hrovat, Stevens, Hunter

That Bulldog midfield was beaten by us and nearly rolled by GWS at their worst. But at their best served it up to some of the better sides and won 8 games for the year. Now you are some kind of optimist if you wouldn't settle for 8 wins next year right now. The Bulldogs top 5 has an edge on us as LIbba matured a lot in 2013 and Griffen has the edge on Jones and Cooney's best whilst rare is a step up from Vince. But after that I think we have the edge in the next 5.

[rjay 23,955]

Agree

comparing us against Sydney who has a complete midfield who have done many preseasons was not really relevant to our expectations in 2014 and we all know what the benchmark is

Adding Bernie Vince and Daniel Cross to assist Nathan Jones is the first positive

Viney , Tyson , Trengove , Michie , Toumpass , Watts and whoever we pick at 9 will benefit the most

You really need around 9 rotating midfielders these days

Another preseason in 2015 will be required to at least have the beginnings of a competitive midfield

Be great if Todd Viney found a GEM at pick 40 or 57 though

So long as supporters don't expect too much i think we are on the right track

I think he might have already with Michie, but I am really excited by Tyson.

Our midfield will be more than competitive in 2014.

[DeeSpencer 23,273]

Or for extreme optimists

Boak (the leader and star) - Jones

Hartlett (the injury restricted unfulfiled talent) - Trengove or Tyson

Ebert (the consistent worker) - Viney

Cornes and Cassisi (the underrated veterans) - Vince and Cross

Wingard (the second year break out) - Toumpas

Wines (the top 10 pick who makes those who passed look silly) - Pick 9

Unfortunately I don't like our chances of any of those players reaching the Port equivalent in 2014. But that's for the dreamers out there.

[Binmans PA 26,292]

Fantastic article. Really, really, measured, thoughtful and unbiased. I wonder if Peter Ryan played football.

[Swampfox 190]

Fantastic article. Really, really, measured, thoughtful and unbiased. I wonder if Peter Ryan played football.

Yeah he played 7 games for the Saints

in 1919

[Gorgoroth 12,331]

Thanks for the link. Was a good article.

[praha 10,305]

Roos did coach a bottom team though. Sydney were down and out when he got in there.

[mauriesy 6,820]

It's an interesting article, but the question at the top doesn't match the rest of the article ... he asks what Melbourne needs to do 'to improve', then proceeds to answer with what they need to do 'to reach the top'.

They're two different stages on the path from rock bottom. Reaching the top is a long, hard road. But we should be able to at least improve with our better personnel. The question then is how much?

[T-34 409]

Roos did coach a bottom team though. Sydney were down and out when he got in there.

Sydney played in the GF 1996 and made finals in 4 of the 5 years up to Roos taking over during the 2002 season.

This is a long way from being a bottom team.

[Pitchy 196]

Point is also that I believe that we have a superior forward line and back line to many other teams. So break even in the midfield could well be enough for us to win games and push up the ladder. Heaven forfend we actually come to dominate the midfield overtime! We will be unstoppable.

[PJ_12345 1,098]

Melbourne in the middle

I couldn't agree more with what Ryan has to say about our prospective midfield for 2014. We are on the right track but we can't be expecting miracles. The stats are damning and unfortunately these are things that will not turn around in an off season (one being average age).

Beating St Kilda, Bulldogs, Brisbane and GWS? (5 wins?)

Brisbane might be pushing it but you never know after their turmoil towards the end of this season.

[jumbo returns 6,504]

Point is also that I believe that we have a superior forward line and back line to many other teams. So break even in the midfield could well be enough for us to win games and push up the ladder. Heaven forfend we actually come to dominate the midfield overtime! We will be unstoppable.

I concur, but we've got to get the big three on the park first!

Hopefully, Round 1 2014, the Saints will be in for a nightmare - having said that, they, too, will have a new coach, so the stakes will be high for both teams.

[drdrake 3,045]

Point is also that I believe that we have a superior forward line and back line to many other teams. So break even in the midfield could well be enough for us to win games and push up the ladder. Heaven forfend we actually come to dominate the midfield overtime! We will be unstoppable.

Spot on, if we can increase our inside 50m count to above 50 per match it gives us every chance to win matches.

[Tony Tea 2,792]

Roos did coach a bottom team though. Sydney were down and out when he got in there.

Sydney is the only team in the AFL to not miss the finals two years in a row since 1996 when they made the GF. And even when Roos took over from Eade in 2002 the Swans came a not disgraceful 11th and finished the season on a roll winning 5 of the last 6 games.

[deanox 8,709]

Interestingly while agreed we have a good and potentially better than average back line, I would argue that we have a great defensive back line but an average attacking back line.

We don't have creative and decisive players setting up attacks as part of the rebound from D50.

Is this the fault of the players in the D50, or is it the result of our very average midfield not running to position to provide those attacking options?

It will be interesting to see if adding some quality to the midfield improves the perceived decision making skills of Grimes, Dunn, McDonald and Frawley on the way out.

[drdrake 3,045]

Interestingly while agreed we have a good and potentially better than average back line, I would argue that we have a great defensive back line but an average attacking back line.

We don't have creative and decisive players setting up attacks as part of the rebound from D50.

Is this the fault of the players in the D50, or is it the result of our very average midfield not running to position to provide those attacking options?

It will be interesting to see if adding some quality to the midfield improves the perceived decision making skills of Grimes, Dunn, McDonald and Frawley on the way out.

Hard to attack when the ball is always in your back half, you stop creating when you know the ball is most likely coming straight back over your head

[Scipio 5,868]

Or for extreme optimists

Boak (the leader and star) - Jones

Hartlett (the injury restricted unfulfiled talent) - Trengove or Tyson

Ebert (the consistent worker) - Viney

Cornes and Cassisi (the underrated veterans) - Vince and Cross

Wingard (the second year break out) - Toumpas

Wines (the top 10 pick who makes those who passed look silly) - Pick 9

Unfortunately I don't like our chances of any of those players reaching the Port equivalent in 2014. But that's for the dreamers out there.

I like it though I think the unfulfilled spot is Ebert - I'd have Viney as the equivalent of Wines (though he'll be better ).

Trengove might end up being that consistent worker.

[Dees2014 2,377]

Melbourne in the middle

I couldn't agree more with what Ryan has to say about our prospective midfield for 2014. We are on the right track but we can't be expecting miracles. The stats are damning and unfortunately these are things that will not turn around in an off season (one being average age).

I understand where Ryan is coming from, but i don't think he is comparing apples with Apples in comparing where we are now with Richmond in 2011. We have a far superior back half and front half than they did in 2011. It was just we were unable to defend or attack because of our poor mid-field, AND our incompetent coaching. I think our upside is far bigger than Richmond, and will come a lot sooner.

[Guest]

Roos did coach a bottom team though. Sydney were down and out when he got in there.

The Swannies were 4-12 when he took over but they had made the finals the year before and had made finals 5 of the last 6 years Rocket Eade was in charge. When he took over, they were going through a dip and Rocket had probably lost the playing group a bit in regards to how rigid he had become. However, by no means were the Swans a basket case. Roosy turned a good team (that may have bottomed out if they held the line) into a great team, one that made two grand finals for one premiership (and with more luck, could have gone back to back).

The group Roos walks into now is day and night compared to what he walked into at Sydney. The previous 6 years of the team he had inherited were respectable. Don't let me go into the last 6 years of the team he is inheriting now!

[McQueen 17,864]

Interestingly while agreed we have a good and potentially better than average back line, I would argue that we have a great defensive back line but an average attacking back line.

We don't have creative and decisive players setting up attacks as part of the rebound from D50.

Is this the fault of the players in the D50, or is it the result of our very average midfield not running to position to provide those attacking options?

It will be interesting to see if adding some quality to the midfield improves the perceived decision making skills of Grimes, Dunn, McDonald and Frawley on the way out.

Indeed. Maybe it's why Neeld was so intent in playing Watts across half back.

Terlich turns it over a lot but it's more from trying to navigate thru traffic or break tackles. Clisby appears more composed based on the handful of games he played.

Garland okay but with the odd brain fade. Frawley can run and bounce and with better options upfield his effectiveness should improve.

Let's hope that with the midfield providing those better options and drifting down to help out it should free up the Backline players.

[Bay Riffin 1,420]

Interesting quite a few here have factored Watts as a positive in the midfield this year.

Even though Roos has earmarked it, he has no history to show he could become a decent midfielder let alone a top one. I hope he does but do people think he can be strong enough at the contest? even if he does take the timid out of his game, will he have the ability to get the ball? I still doubt it.

What he has shown so far is ability when he is a loose man and occasionally as a forward showing some brilliance.

The new recruits are all natural midfielders but watts would start at ground zero.