Bombers scandal: charged, <redacted> and <infracted>

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Good post, however technically i don''t think WADA can impose any sanctions punishment per se.

Agree on that assessment.

If WADA are dissatisfied with ASADA then that is an issue for them to sort out with the Federal Government.

It won't be a good look for Australia internationally in sport if ASADA has been perceived as soft or sub WADA standard or the AFL has not complied with ASADA rulings.

Indeed there are a number of Olympic level sports bodies in this country who were very surprised the St Kilda player Saad was allowed to resume playing given his alleged drug offence. In other sports the alleged doper is immediately taken out.

[Whispering_Jack 28,025]

Agree on that assessment.

If WADA are dissatisfied with ASADA then that is an issue for them to sort out with the Federal Government.

It won't be a good look for Australia internationally in sport if ASADA has been perceived as soft or sub WADA standard or the AFL has not complied with ASADA rulings.

Indeed there are a number of Olympic level sports bodies in this country who were very surprised the St Kilda player Saad was allowed to resume playing given his alleged drug offence. In other sports the alleged doper is immediately taken out.

Actually, if WADA is dissatisfied with the way a sporting body deals with infraction notices issued as a result of ASADA's final report, it has the right to appeal to an independent tribunal.

WADA has considerable clout in the sporting world and our sporting bodies who gain funding from federal authorities would do well not to defy or upset WADA.

I think it was yesterday that the 2020 Olympic Games were awarded to Tokyo ahead of Istanbul and Madrid. The result was no coincidence if you look at the resepective records of each of the countries they represent in dealing with doping issues.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

WADA has considerable clout in the sporting world and our sporting bodies who gain funding from federal authorities would do well not to defy or upset WADA.

.

Exactly my point.

[Dees2014 2,377]

Good post, however technically i don''t think WADA can impose any sanctions punishment per se.

They have all the powers they need, and they can usurp ASADA if they do not believe they ASADA have given out sufficient punishment

Edited September 12, 2013 by Dees2014

[binman 38,837]

They have all the powers they need, and they can usurp ASADA if they do not believe they ASADA have given out sufficient punishment

I think you misunderstand. Of course they are powerful and as WJ and RR note they have significant clout. But they cannot hand out sanctions or penalties, only recommend them (nor do ASADA for that matter).

Take the AFL or NRL examples. Lets say players are served with infraction notices by ASADA, found guilty by an AFL or NRL tribunal and penalized but WADA feels the penalty is wrong. WADA can appeal to the Court of Arbitration for Sport but they can't can't come in and hand down penalties on the players or the AFL or NRL. That's up to the AFL and NRL. Of course they can (and would) go the Federal government and threaten all manner of things. The feds would then in turn threaten the AFL with loss of funding etc etc. But, as i understand it WADA have no power to sanction.

[daisycutter 28,640]

I think you misunderstand. Of course they are powerful and as WJ and RR note they have significant clout. But they cannot hand out sanctions or penalties, only recommend them (nor do ASADA for that matter).

Take the AFL or NRL examples. Lets say players are served with infraction notices by ASADA, found guilty by an AFL or NRL tribunal and penalized but WADA feels the penalty is wrong. WADA can appeal to the Court of Arbitration for Sport but they can't can't come in and hand down penalties on the players or the AFL or NRL. That's up to the AFL and NRL. Of course they can (and would) go the Federal government and threaten all manner of things. The feds would then in turn threaten the AFL with loss of funding etc etc. But, as i understand it WADA have no power to sanction.

that's my understanding too binman

[beelzebub 22,269]

I have a sneaking suspicion that WADA can do what they wish to individuals but the governing body of a sport deals with team penalties.

If WADA/ASADA starting handing out pink slips...players are gone I think

[Demon Dynasty 15,781]

You are kidding yourself.... if you think the AFL holds any sway over ASADA, then think again. ASADA are answerable to WADA and if found to be doing sweetheart deals with any sporting organisations so that they don't suffer too much inconvenience, there would be all hell to pay. ASADA will NOT be doing any deals with the AFL.

I agree. Certainly none that you, i, the general public or anyone other than those that "need to know" will ever officially be made aware of

[Demon Dynasty 15,781]

I don't think some people understand the process we are going through here. It doesn't matter what either the NFL/AFL or their clubs think, laying infraction notices and the subsequent legal outcomes is initially entirely in the hands of ASADA. The legal process will run its course no matter what the players do.

You're assumption of ignorance by others in some of the basic ASADA/WADA official processes/protocol is an astounding assumption in itself. Well done. Oh, and i never said the process wouldn't run its course, whatever that may be.

I predict by Febrary next year, about ten Essendon players will get infraction notices, and another three ex Essendon players at other clubs. All will be given 2year sentences, and then watch the writs fly. Essendon will be essentially broke by the end of 2014 and will be bailed out by the AFL. The bill will be enormous and will stretch even the AFL's very deep pockets

I also suggest this is nothing for us non Esendon supporters to be happy about. It will seriously hurt the whole competition, including the emerging Demons.

Whilst i wouldn't be surprised to see 1 or 2 "token" infraction notices being issued to scape goats by year's end or over the off season, with more than likely a 6 month max suspension (and possibly a few more being given suspended sentence infractions), I look forward with interest in seeing how your prediction of impending disaster will hurl itself upon the AFL and the soon to be "essentially" broke Bombers in the next 12 months.

Sorry but i'm more than happy to agree to disagree with your impending doom call. I will happily ban myself from this site for the equivelent of the maximum length of suspension given IF your prediction of at least (approx) 10 Bomber players are given 2 year suspension infraction notices. And no, 1,2 or 3 won't qualify

Edited September 12, 2013 by Rusty Nails

[beelzebub 22,269]

Essendon launches legal action against Carlton CEO Greg Swann

Not sure whether to laugh or gape in amazement. Messendon really, really, I mean REALLY think they havent crossed any lines dont they.

They might see it as a governance issue, and even then they dont see it as that muchg wrong, but really its far more than just that. Seeking to gain an untoward advantage is cheating and Swann is probably within reason to call them on it.

Ought to be interesting to see how this plays

[biggestred 4,357]

Swann might get pinged for saying it now, but the second they have an infraction notice and someone gets rubbed out, id expect him to give it back x4

[DeeSpencer 23,318]

Essendon launches legal action against Carlton CEO Greg Swann

Not sure whether to laugh or gape in amazement. Messendon really, really, I mean REALLY think they havent crossed any lines dont they.

They might see it as a governance issue, and even then they dont see it as that muchg wrong, but really its far more than just that. Seeking to gain an untoward advantage is cheating and Swann is probably within reason to call them on it.

Ought to be interesting to see how this plays

This just shows how stuffed up Essendon is right now. Surely anyone switched on would just let that slide as a cheap shot from Swann and move on. Lawyers see an opportunity to up their billables and go for it. We all know cheating is pretty harsh but they've been found to bring the game into disrepute, I don't see how anyone would side with them. No way does Swann apologise.

[titan_uranus 22,659]

This just shows how stuffed up Essendon is right now. Surely anyone switched on would just let that slide as a cheap shot from Swann and move on. Lawyers see an opportunity to up their billables and go for it. We all know cheating is pretty harsh but they've been found to bring the game into disrepute, I don't see how anyone would side with them. No way does Swann apologise.

Rubbish. Whether you like it or agree with it or not, they spent a long time working with the AFL to ensure that there was no statement that they gained an unfair advantage, and all penalties were referred to the poor governance issues.

Of course they are going to get upset when a rival CEO says they 'cheated'. They worked hard to get away from that tarnish and, if they can, they want to avoid it.

[Satan 2,786]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/essendon-denies-reports-players-want-to-leave-club-after-supplements-scandal/story-fni5f6kv-1226717770592

But Bombers list manager Adrian Dodoro said today if any player did want out, it was news to him.

“We have been in contact with every player agent that manages our players and we have not received any information that would suggest a player wants to leave the club under those circumstances whatsoever,” Dodoro told the club website.

This is like watson signing the press release saying the players are in clear with ASADA after the AFl deal with essendon...just bs

until asada has released the report (and there are no infractions ), no player will say they want to leave publicly. No team will talk to a player with the risk of a ban on the players, until they are cleared. If the AFLPA demand and get the special free agency for the breach of duty of care if the players are cleared then i think players will walk.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Rubbish. Whether you like it or agree with it or not, they spent a long time working with the AFL to ensure that there was no statement that they gained an unfair advantage, and all penalties were referred to the poor governance issues.

Of course they are going to get upset when a rival CEO says they 'cheated'. They worked hard to get away from that tarnish and, if they can, they want to avoid it.

It's not clear that they have not cheated and they can't establish that their players were not injected with illegal substances.

Essendon have worked hard to protect Hird to the detriment of its players and the game.

Anyway I reckon Swanns comments are a storm in a teacup when he has said what the rest of the football world think.

[Whispering_Jack 28,025]

My take is that Essendon has taken the action to close discussion on the subject for the time being and I doubt this action will ever see the light of day in a court. The Bombers simply can't afford the issue of whether what they did constituted "cheating" or not to be aired in public.

The fact is that Carlton is smugly and justifiably asserting the validity of its place in the finals because Essendon breached AFL rules and that seems to be the case.

I hope the Swans cream them tomorrow night but with so many of their stars either injured, out of form or NQR, anything can happen.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

But I think the Swann comment and the retaliatory action by EFC hides the real story in the article....

The AFL are going to drop charges against Dr Bruce Reid. Reid's prophetic letter and warning about Essendon's activities that went no further than the CEO should have been the basis for Reid to rattle the cages about supplement governance. He didn't and was asleep at the wheel. I would have thought he had a case to answer like Corcoran, Bomber and Hird.

But it was always clear that Reid going to Court would have put Vlad Evans and Hird in the stand under oath. And statements made to ASADA would be tested in Court. Vlad would have been exposed as potentially breaching ACC regulations in spilling the beans to EFC. Both Vlad and Evans have denied this against Hirds comments. All would have been tested in court. Not good for Vlad, the AFL and potentially the narcissistic one.

Expedience has ruled the day as its incredible Reid walks unpunished for his (lack of) involvement in the supplements circus.

[jackaub 1,402]

ASADA exists to implement and uphold WADA protocols which the Federal Government has signed up to and funds ASADA.

ASADA is not answerable to the AFL.

There is huge risks for ASADA, the AFL and ASADAs stakeholder for the actual or perceived doing of deals or tainting of the process of investigation.

Indeed there is likely to be huge scrutiny on ASADA and its processes when the AFL/NRL investigations.

You have to wonder about those that harbour the belief in absence of any facts that the AFL and ASADA are co hoots on this matter.

Organisations like ASADA are political animals and they will always compromise. It's the way of the world.

Nobody can deal with an organisation that reads the rules in black and white. Life is not and will never be like that. The whole deal will gradually melt away its in everybody's interest except for a few zealots.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Organisations like ASADA are political animals and they will always compromise. It's the way of the world.

Nobody can deal with an organisation that reads the rules in black and white. Life is not and will never be like that. The whole deal will gradually melt away its in everybody's interest except for a few zealots.

You're living in a bubble. You're being naive in your generalisations.

ASADA is a small part of the whole picture. The issue is that WADAs rules and standards are very black and white. And given there global standing, local minnows can't compromise without embarrassing the Federal Government and Australia's global standing.

If ASADA is seen to be compromised in its processes and investigations then all parties to the compromise will be outed with their integrity and reputations trashed

[Whispering_Jack 28,025]

Organisations like ASADA are political animals and they will always compromise. It's the way of the world.

Nobody can deal with an organisation that reads the rules in black and white. Life is not and will never be like that. The whole deal will gradually melt away its in everybody's interest except for a few zealots.

It's precisely because the "way of the world" is what it is in many sports (i.e often corrupted) that anti doping agencies have been given teeth fangs to deal with the problem which, in the case of WADA and its national offshoots like ASADA have powers far beyond even the courts. The AFL is a voluntary subscriber to the WADA Code and its not going to be as easy as you imagine for things to be swept under the carpet.

Certainly, any club and any player involved will need to prepare for the possibility of infraction notices as best they can and to deal with the factual circumstances in which they find themselves but I doubt this is going to magically go away because some back room deal is done.

[hardtack 10,127]

Organisations like ASADA are political animals and they will always compromise. It's the way of the world.

Nobody can deal with an organisation that reads the rules in black and white. Life is not and will never be like that. The whole deal will gradually melt away its in everybody's interest except for a few zealots.

Tell that to Brazil whose World Cup and Olympic drug testing lab has been banned/lost its accreditation courtesy of WADA, on the eve of both the World Cup Football and Olympic competition.

Tell that to the organisers of Le Tour de France whose event (one of the biggest on the planet) has had its credibility questioned over and over again as a result of WADA sanctioned testing.

Do you really think that a comparatively insignificant sporting body such as the AFL will be saved by an equally insignificant government?

[Dees2014 2,377]

Organisations like ASADA are political animals and they will always compromise. It's the way of the world.

Nobody can deal with an organisation that reads the rules in black and white. Life is not and will never be like that. The whole deal will gradually melt away its in everybody's interest except for a few zealots.

I don't think you understand. ASADA are NOT a political body. They are there to enforce the laws resulting from international agreements to do with doping in sport. Often these laws are more severe than local laws are. In the AFLs case, they have voluntarily signed up to these codes. If they had not they would be the laughing stock of the international sporting community, and one thing the AFL fancies itself as being is a world leading edge sporting Organisation. It is unthinkable it would do otherwise

Having signed up, they take whatever judgements ASADA brings forth, and as I have said here on previous entries, if WADA are not happy with the punishment handed out they can come in and over rule ASADA's finding via an international appeals mechanism, which has been done successfully on a number of cases internationally.

The doubters amongst supporters and some clubs in the AFL that they can play the "appealing to the court of public opinion" to put pressure on ASADA/WADA will have zero effect on the outcome. These bodies deal in fact, not in public opinion, and politics has nothing whatever to do with it.

There still seems to be people at Essendon who still do not understand this. Essendon's abuse of the rules seems clear. I would be amazed if there weren't a number of infraction notices issued in the coming months. That is why very few clubs who understand the realities of this will not deal with them even if players are given free agency. ASADA will still be hanging over them even if they move to another club and the suspensions will be the same. Why would a club take the risk on a player no matter how good they are.

[DemonFrog 1,347]

In the AFLs case, they have voluntarily signed up to these codes. If they had not they would be the laughing stock of the international sporting community, and one thing the AFL fancies itself as being is a world leading edge sporting Organisation. It is unthinkable it would do otherwise

I cant wait for the Aussie Rules World Cup every four years.

But seriously it would be more related to access to Government Funding then what other overseas codes think.

[Whispering_Jack 28,025]

Tell that to Brazil whose World Cup and Olympic drug testing lab has been banned/lost its accreditation courtesy of WADA, on the eve of both the World Cup Football and Olympic competition.

Tell that to the organisers of Le Tour de France whose event (one of the biggest on the planet) has had its credibility questioned over and over again as a result of WADA sanctioned testing.

Do you really think that a comparatively insignificant sporting body such as the AFL will be saved by an equally insignificant government?

... and tell that to the Jamaican authorities who apparently only dope test one athlete every time a blue moon comes around and only if his name isn't Bob Marley or someone else famous.

[hardtack 10,127]

... and tell that to the Jamaican authorities who apparently only dope test one athlete every time a blue moon comes around and only if his name isn't Bob Marley or someone else famous.

I believe WADA is telling them... clean up your act or don't bother turning up to the Olympics.