Bombers scandal: charged, <redacted> and <infracted>

[Bitter but optimistic 22,241]

Neil Craig is famous for introducing colostrum to the Crows in 1997. He was reputed to be a savvy and enthusiastic proponent of sports science. If he did not know about Bates and Dank, why? If anyone is going to know about the application of out-there bio-chem substances, it is Neil Craig.

I would reckon their mothers should get the credit for this.

[biggestred 5,088]

there would be a difference between the cream and injecting the liquid.

obviously the cream would be a vastly reduced dose.

it would make logical sense if a cream was permitted and an injection of the same chemical not.

[rjay 24,928]

I said before the I believe that the AFL would be better served by an independent panel of Doctors who rotate throughout the clubs on a roster system. Maybe rotating a Doctor every year or every two years. The doctors are not answerable to the clubs and report back to the AFL . In all medical matters the Doctors have the final say and all conditioning and fitness staff report directly to the Doctor.

On the surface it sounds like a good idea, be interested to hear what the doctors would think of this idea. The clubs would be taking the intellectual property argument, but the idea is worth some thought.

[Dockett 32 1,239]

How do you figure? wasn't illegal until last night?

Misses the point a bit though.

If last nights 4 Corners report was correct and I have no reason to disbelieve it , there is at least one other club and bound to be others who whilst not as careless as we may have been with our reporting, IMO will have ventured into the same murky paddock , so what of gtheir reporting obligations?

Latest offering from The Age:

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/wada-declares-obesity-drug-illegal-20130423-2ibhh.html

WADA declares obesity drug illegal

A yet-to-be-approved for human use anti-obesity drug allegedly injected into AFL and NRL players by sports scientist Steven Dank has been classified a prohibited substance by the World Anti Doping Authority.

In a notification released overnight, WADA said the drug, AOD-9604, fell under the category of substances that are prohibited because they have "no current approval by any governmental regulatory health authority for human therapeutic use".

WADA ruled in 2012 that the use of unapproved substances fell under its prohibited category. This raises the prospect that footballers injected with AOD-9604 last year may have unwittingly breached anti-doping rules.

WADA's overnight notification on the status of AOD-9604 puts to rest speculation about the uncertain status of the substance in terms of its compliance with anti-doping rules.

Just about cooks the goose of all players who have been discovered to have used AOD-9604.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Sorry, but if Bates was acting as a "lone wolf" at the club then by definition others above would not have known.

If they knew, then they were already implicated and Bates was not acting on his own.

To date, there is no evidence of this whatsoever.

The law treats people the other way around. I thought you were innocent until proven guilty but it seems that in the world of corporate governance these days you are deemed guilty by speculation.

It's still to be established who knew what. The fact that the MFC should have been more transparent and have admitted failure in reporting controls and stood aside an employee. They should have been aware and had the oversight in a crucial area. If he is a lone wolf then he goes and his direct supervisor and the Club is tainted with poor oversight and poor reporting protocols (as admitted).

If its shown that he was not a lone wolf then the integrity of those went the Sgt Schultz, claimed they were not aware but actually knew are in big trouble. And the club is further embarrassed as they have deliberately misled the AFL.

Governance is about due responsibility and proper accountability for outcomes. Its not purely about the legal definition of guilty/ not guilty. In an organisation there are many levels of responsibility which are fulfilled by action and accountabilities of executives empowered to act.. In the case of the lone wolf situation, while his supervisor was not directly responsible for the lack of information on Dank he is accountable for the poor oversight in a critical area of operations in regard a relationship that had been going on for the past five months. This lack of oversight lead to an inappropriate disclosure that has created a number of issues for the club.

[Redleg 40,925]

whichever club they were talking about is screwed

Openly discussing the use of PED's and how to avoid beat drug tests

Wow

Unless it is us they are safe. We are the AFL whipping boys.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

He can say what he likes when he's retired/pensioned off or sacked.

Don't hold your breath too hard.

[What 18,810]

WADA has confirmed that AOD 9604 is a banned substance

Heres hoping and praying that Trenners didn't use it, even though it was alluded to in 'those' text messages.

[Pates 9,660]

Are there grounded accusations at the club for doing something outside the guidelines? Or is the major issue that our doctor and potentially the club lied to the AFL about a link to Dank?

What I find annoying about our part in this is that AD said that decisions as to what to give to players should be left in the hands of the club doctor. Did we not do this? Wasn't it the doctor that signed off on everything going into the players?

I also agree that it's a disgrace they named Melboirne players but felt obliged to blur out Bombers players. Regardless of the outcome it has dragged Trenners name through mud by perception.

[Nascent 9,213]

From the MFC statement

"The program also made reference to a cream which is not prohibited under ASADA and WADA guidelines."

Trengove was directed to pick up a cream at a pharmacy so I highly doubt he would be able to purchase anything over the counter that wasn't approved for human use.

Furthermore, the article in the age wada-declares-obesity-drug-illegal- suggests that the anti-obesity drug that is banned was injected into players.

[What 18,810]

From the MFC statement

"The program also made reference to a cream which is not prohibited under ASADA and WADA guidelines."

Trengove was directed to pick up a cream at a pharmacy so I highly doubt he would be able to purchase anything over the counter that wasn't approved for human use.

Furthermore, the article in the age wada-declares-obesity-drug-illegal- suggests that he anti-obesity drug that is banned was injected into players.

You just made me a lot calmer.

Thank you

[Deemotivated 550]

From the MFC statement

"The program also made reference to a cream which is not prohibited under ASADA and WADA guidelines."

Trengove was directed to pick up a cream at a pharmacy so I highly doubt he would be able to purchase anything over the counter that wasn't approved for human use.

Furthermore, the article in the age wada-declares-obesity-drug-illegal- suggests that he anti-obesity drug that is banned was injected into players.

Brilliant.

If any of our players get banned I hope they sue the pants off the club.

The club has a duty of care to these guys and I find it abhorrent that anything like this would be thought about let alone followed through with.

Here's hoping its bullsh!t....

[Nascent 9,213]

I haven't actually seen anything to suggest that these club officials were from North... The only link that I can see that they have to this scandal appears to be the fact they used to employ Bates.

[Whispering_Jack 30,140]

Pardon my ignorance but am I right to assume that if an anti-obesity drug was used, it was for purposes other than curing obesity?

I mean I don't see many Fat Alberts running around the MFC or any other clubs and Mick "The Galloping Gasometer" Nolan hasn't been around for quite a while.

[old dee 23,791]

Pardon my ignorance but am I right to assume that if an anti-obesity drug was used, it was for purposes other than curing obesity?

I mean I don't see many Fat Alberts running around the MFC or any other clubs and Mick "The Galloping Gasometer" Nolan hasn't been around for quite a while.

I wondered the exact same thing WJ.

Can anyone tell us how this is supposed to help an elite athlete ?

[Cards13 9,117]

Ask Warnie....

[Moonshadow 17,676]

That's rubbish. It is and always will be the AFLs and each clubs responsibility. Even more so now.

Yes and he also played for Essendon.

Are you talking about AD? He played for Norf and the hawks.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Are you talking about AD? He played for Norf and the hawks.

Doh. You are right. He played 3 games with the Hawks. For some reason, I thought it was Essendon. I retract that claim on the Dons relationship. Thanks

[whatwhat say what 22,757]

It would seem to be North Melbourne and Caroline Wilson will think all of her Christmases will have come at once.

Thinks she hates us? Thinks she hates Essendon? It's nothing compared to her feeling towards the Kangaroos and Brayshaw in particular.

That's what happens when she reports something like moving to GC as a done deal and then it fails to come to fruition!

[rjay 24,928]

It would seem to be North Melbourne and Caroline Wilson will think all of her Christmases will have come at once.

Thinks she hates us? Thinks she hates Essendon? It's nothing compared to her feeling towards the Kangaroos and Brayshaw in particular.

That's what happens when she reports something like moving to GC as a done deal and then it fails to come to fruition!

She really does make it personal doesn't she? loves young Swan at the Pies too.

[Johnny Karate 559]

What I find confusing is that it was neither banned nor approved when the alleged injections took place - yet players may face bans after the fact. Does that mean that I can expect speeding fines for all those times I was driving 100kph on the Monash before the resident bean counters reduced it to 80? Is this the type of logic WADA/ASADA operates on?

As an aside - wouldn't it be great to be a part of an anti doping agency? You're accountable to nobody and if you fail to catch cheats you can just put your hand out for squillions of dollars worth of govt/taxpayer money.

[DemonWA 3,934]

What I find confusing is that it was neither banned nor approved when the alleged injections took place - yet players may face bans after the fact. Does that mean that I can expect speeding fines for all those times I was driving 100kph on the Monash before the resident bean counters reduced it to 80? Is this the type of logic WADA/ASADA operates on?

As an aside - wouldn't it be great to be a part of an anti doping agency? You're accountable to nobody and if you fail to catch cheats you can just put your hand out for squillions of dollars worth of govt/taxpayer money.

Just because it isnt on the banned list doesnt make it legal.

WADA and ASADA can deem substances illegal if it can be proven that the reason they were taken was for enhancing on field performance, and they do infact enhance on field performance.

[What 18,810]

Tweet from Richard Ings

@ringsau: @rcg80 what is very odd is that AOD9604 is in the ACC report as not banned. Surely they would check that with WADA first. Lawyers picnic

fair dinkum, ASADA and the ACC are a bunch of amateurs

[CHAMP 347]

Pardon my ignorance but am I right to assume that if an anti-obesity drug was used, it was for purposes other than curing obesity?

I mean I don't see many Fat Alberts running around the MFC or any other clubs and Mick "The Galloping Gasometer" Nolan hasn't been around for quite a while.

The AOD cream was for topical application to Trenners' crook foot I understood.

[CHAMP 347]

http://www.simplyvital.com.au/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=50

Sounds a bit dodgy even just rubbed-in