Things from today

[Nasher 33,131]

Bate Newton Petterd Jurrah.

When the chips are down, we get nothing.

At least two, possibly three of those players would not be in our best 22 if we had a full list to choose from.

[Geddy Lee 582]

At least two, possibly three of those players would not be in our best 22 if we had a full list to choose from.

Bate is a lead-up forward that never leads up.

Newton is an extremely dumb footballer.

Petterd and Jurrah are both so flakey they probably shouldn't be in the same team together.

[Great_little_footy_team 8]

Well said, agree with everything except about Blease and Strauss, they haven't shown enough… yet

Today I also thought Warnock, Bate, Petterd, Newton and Macdonald were insipid. Bate, Macdonald and Newton appeared to not be afl standard today and I'm now understanding why Petterd was out of the team. And need I mention Davey?

There were a bunch of positives out of today but too many (mostly experienced) players didn't look up to it and that last quarter was simply not good enough

[Nasher 33,131]

Bate and Newton are just filler. I don't waste my energy seething at their output because they have zero impact on our flag push; they're just there because of the unfortunate way in which the dice have fallen. I like Petterd but clearly he needs to be better than he was today. No cause for concern whatsoever on Jurrah for mine; form is temporary and he still kicked three goals today even when he was poor.

[Maldonboy38 5,948]

Firstly, I am more disppointed with today's performace than last week. Big call? Maybe, but that's how I honestly feel.

Out of today, and for the season to date, I have some things to voice, and welcome opinions.

* Aaron Davey HAS to be dropped. Simple as that. His attiude, body language, and his total play is pitiful, and has been all year. I don't want to hear this crap that he should be moved forward - even when he plays forward he has shown nothing. Make a stand Football Department, give him a number of weeks at Casey.

* One player that is on notice is Petterd. He was insipid today. There is a sickening amount of love on this site for him, but wake up people, he is one of our biggest front-runners, yet sadly, most of you don't see it. He is a Robbo 2.0, his 2nd efforts aren;t there, and he screams for free kicks that aren't there. When he decides to puull his head out of his a$$, he plays good footy, but like Robbo, that's not often enough.

* Michael Newton must not play a senior game for the Melbourne Football Club EVER again. His errors were too costly, and this is consistent with every game he has played for the club. He did bugger all today, and I cannot see how he should be played ahead of Gawn. I don't care what you think of our ÿouth policy"in regards to Gawn, he is fit, we are in injury strife, PLAY HIM.

* Matthew Bate = see Michael Newton. Bate is clogging up a spot on our list, and the change that I can see happen immediately is Bate out, Howe in.

* Liam Jurrah is on notice. While he is a frak of nature, he still needs to understand that the AFL requires a level of discipline. While it is not in his "nature"to be coached, there are still basics of footy that you need to show, and he doens't do those often enough.

* For those doubters, we WILL be a top 4 side in a couple of years. If both teams were full strength, we win easily today, simple. Jamar is the biggest loss our team has (hence my call to put Gawn in no matter what), we can't afford to cruise along the next 12 months hoping Russian doesn't break down again.

* I don't know if Bailey is the right coach, but that's not saying he isn't. I think the Club, which includes us supporters, should do whatever it takes to ensure Bailey's future ISN'T questioned until the end of the year. Having questions raised every second of the day about who should be coach, isn't the best thing for the Club, and a lot of you have yourself to blame. There is nothing the Club can do in the immediate future (this season I mean( that will turn our season around, so let's show support rather than the idiotic comments about "Bailey MUST be sacked immediately", blah, blah. I bet he wishes that he could have 1/2 those players back that are injured - I'm sure his end-of-season record would look a lot different if they were playing.

* Blease and Strauss NEED to be given games this year. If both those boys can play at least 6-8 games before the end of the season, we will go in to next season a better team. We saw today what a debutante can do that has been playing well at Casey, well, according to those in the know, Blease and Strauss should be given the opportunity. Maybe now that Tappy has done a hammy, it will open the door.

* I hope the Watts and Jones baggers can finally pull their heads out of their a$$es, because if we didn't have those 2 blokes for the plast few weeks, we'd be feeling a lot worse.

Great post Billy. Agree with almost the whole thing. If people start more of that "Bailey must go" rubbish they are simply showing ignorance. If it is required at season's end it will be done - but not now.

Blease and Strauss defeinietly in against the blues.

Watts and Jones have been terrific this year.

My only disagreement is with Bate. we still need him but we need tplay him close to goal. His turnign circle adn pace off the mark leave him exposed anywhere outside the 5om arc but we need his strength and his kicking.

.

[tonatopia 278]

Not even going to comment on the Davey reply, apart from these words - WATCH THE FREAKING GAME!

I don't understand how you think I don't agree with the coaching method. Tell me where I am questioning that, and I will hasppily respond.

Didn't mention that those players didn't play well. Most of them I voted for in the POTY thread.

Try again.

I think davey is one of the most important players at the club. Everyony is entitled to an off day. Same with jurrah, and i have seen everygame for ober ten years

[Striker475 696]

I think davey is one of the most important players at the club. Everyony is entitled to an off day. Same with jurrah, and i have seen everygame for ober ten years

Maintaining an earlier vibe (although slightly altered) - he has had ONE quality game since the start of 2010, and that is the game vs Adelaide where he was inexplicably not tagged. And I'll challenge you to name me another where he's been the threat where he was 2-3 years ago, when we were at the bottom of the table.

Clearly you haven't been watching the same team.

[mrtwister 650]

I certainly don't think that this week was as bad as last week. The majority of our players ran the game out and would be absolutely exhausted tomorrow. They didn't lay down this week and had even more quality players out. My pros and cons as observed from Level 3 behind the goals at the Southern end are:

PROS:

Evans was gold today. Good confident debut, he showed he appreciated the opportunity and left nothing in the tank to prove he should be a regular.

Jonesy battled his guts out, appeared to injure his elbow and/or shoulder at the start of the 4th quarter. The trainer ran out and called for an interchange to be organised, but then the ball came back to Jonesy's direct opponent so he shrugged it off, chased him down and tackled the bejesus out of him. Summed up his first 100 games perfectly.

Jetta played hard and played to his strengths. Fast, elusive and pressured all day.

Frawley, despite his 'more than usual' error count today must be given respect for today's effort. He chased Reiwoldt (the league's most overated superstar) all day. Now, this is a rare thing, most teams rotate a couple on him just so they can keep up but today, Frawley kept up and also tried his guts out to run the ball out of defence as well.

Martin looked more like a borderline 1st ruckman today, he was taking hits in the ruck well, as to say he prepared himself well for them and contested hard.

Watts was solid without being great. A few disposal errors that put a few guys under a lot of pressure, but he stood up today which is the most important thing.

Gysberts proved to be valuable today, chasing hard, applying a lot of pressure and had good efficient disposals.

Green showed some improvement in form today. Good to see him in the forward 50/goal square area for the most part. Gave us a solid target up forward (see cons for other targets)

Maric played well, a few goals, swung back into defence to try and jam it up a little. Ran hard and made hiself some space. His improvement will result in a valuable small forward not unlike the [censored] on the Saints who plays that role. (Except Maric is most definitely not a [censored])

Neither here nor there:

Warnock was impossible to judge today. He was on Kositzke (Gotsoftski) who did bugger all. Hard to say whether he was held well or just rubbish. He certainly made Warnock look quick.

Moloney/Silvia were both a little quiet by their own standards today. Both showed typical courage but didn't stand out.

Rivers didn't stand out at all today but didn't really do anything wrong

Cons:

Davey: Totally out of form, can't read the play at the moment, can't get a hard ball at the moment, is crunbling under opposition pressure. He really needs to run (and I mean run) into some form at Casey for 2 or 3 weeks. Jetta played Davey's game a lot better than Davey did today.

Newton: Well. Don't know where to start. They were physical with him today. He didn't get anything easy (except for his ridiculously absurd miss from 8 metres out, which by the way would possibly have been the momentum swing we desperately needed at the time).

Petterd was soft today. Didn't get any open space with good passes on the lead today which showed his inability to make an impact on taller, stronger opponents in the air/pack.

Jurrah was ordinary today, despite 2 goals in the last quarter of the last quarter. He was injured and limped off quite badly during the second quarter. He came back out a short time later but made little impact from there on. I did see him up the ground more and even ran a good ball out of defence at one point which was pleasing. I like that he's being challenged with that.

Bate was not that good BUT I see some potential. He's not a liability and would benefit from a few games in a row. He works hard but just misses the last little bit of what he does. It will come with some confidence and some more experience at this level. I'd give him more games before I made a decision on him.

Players we missed in order of importance:

Jamar

Trengove

Grimes

Tapscott

Garland

Bail

Players we didn't miss:

Dunn (sorry Dunny but your performance last week has me wondering)

Just for the record. I don't think Bailey should be sacked during the season. I respect what he's done for this club. I think he's been a great teacher of these young guys but I think they now need to be coached.

Can't wait to be back at the G

[drdrake 3,045]

A concern is our mid size forwards Green, Jurrah, Maric, Petterd, Bate cna't keep the forward inside our attacking 50m arc. We are getting to many points kicked against us, our back six to me looks good enough to restrict teams, our zone is no good which is exposing our back 6 the amount of goals that are easy goals due to teams getting through our zone. If our zone doesn't work go back to one on one.

[Lil_red_fire_engine 10,249]

Firstly, I am more disppointed with today's performace than last week. Big call? Maybe, but that's how I honestly feel.

Your Jones love aside could not have said the rest better myself.

[Pates 9,537]

Ok my thoughts on the game aren't completely out of whack with everyone else.

Pros:

- I thought we were more competitive (Bailey's favourite word) for longer today, we crash and bashed and match intensity for much of the the game. First 5 minutes of the 4th quarter were disappointing given how close we were but at least we didn't let it blow out. Given how depleted we are it could've been worse.

- Jetta showed he can actually play a role if he wishes to, needs to be backed up next week but it was a good step forward.

- Pickles had a very good debut, he didn't look at all daunted and has certainly earned a retention next week.

- Watts. The bloke ran his ass off all day and did some very good things, he looked like a footballer and will no doubt be relishing getting his hands on the footy more and more. The next step is for him to kick 3+ goals in a game.

- Stef Martin is holding up in the ruck, in fact he's better than holding up. This is not only a positive for him but for the Russian as he won't feel like he's got the whole rucking duties resting on his shoulders when he returns.

Cons:

- SKILLS!!!! Fricken woeful at times today. Not just that but the decision making while disposing of it was terrible, we bled goals and good chances for US to kick goals from simple stupid errors that simply should not happen.

- Jurrah, going to cut him some slack as everyone's entitled to an off day but when he's not on he needs to work on 1) body language and 2) 2nd efforts, both were disgusting to watch today.

- Bate, used to really like him but bugger me he was a liability today. WOG for mine. Dunn's out for one more week, he'd better show something soon or he'll be Matthew-trade-Bait at the end of the year.

- Petterd, love watching the bloke, he can be one of my favourite players but he seems to have lost the competitive spirit that made him so good last year. Hope he'll come back from this.

- Newton, no explanation needed. He's simply not up to it, but he's there because we have no choice. As soon as Gawn's ready to go, get him out.

I could go on and on, but for me what it comes down to is the team out there is simply not good enough. I'd almost commend them for staying in touch for so long today, if i didn't see for myself how down on confidence the saints are. We could've won today, but i get the feeling this will be the last close call we have for a while.

I also agree with the original posters thoughts on Bailey, I see no use in giving him the flick during this year and there's no point in hounding to club to do it. He has very average team to work with at the moment so it's impossible to judge him properly, and calling for the axe will only create more negative pressure on our club.

[3183 Dee 2,608]

Largely agree with what has been said on this thread. I thought that with a fullish squad we would have won today.

Thought that Brad Green had a better game, some captains motivate with talk, some lead by example and Green falls into the latter category. Watts is getting better and better. Jones had a great 100th game. Evans should also be singled out for praise - solid unit and 27 possessions on debut was a great effort.

Still a lack of cohesion amongst the team at times and that old hesitancy on kicking out from defence creeping in when under pressure.

Nor sure that the team spirit us as good as it could be - in the 4th, when Jurrah kicked 2 in a row, to put us within 3 goals with 8 mins left, there was no urgency to keep the momentum going and give us a chance. Rather, the muted celebrations seemed to indicate that the game was already lost and we were just reducing the margin.

Because so much has been said about the bright future of the Melbourne Football Club, wonder if some players are just sitting back and waiting for it all to happen by itself. The quality is potentially there, but there's a lot of hard graft ahead if it is to be realised.

[Legendsinc 2]

I had to wonder where I was today???

I had just come from my 7 year-old grand-daughter's NETA (netball for beginners) match, where they all run around in a group, one gets the ball and then instead of going with their first option of throwing the ball to someone who is free, they wait for 30 seconds and then throw to a contest.

BUT these are young girls and boys that are just learning the game.

WHEREAS, I sit and watch guys that have been playing the game for years doing exactly the same thing, for Christ sake, go with your first option and you won't get either caught or do something stupid and give it to someone else who is just about to be tackled.......it ain't frigging rocket science.

and by the way, as long as I'm having a whinge......has jack Watts slept around with all the players' partners as I lost count the number of time he had made space, and was by himself jumping up and down, they look at him and then kick it to a contested situation....for god's sake, have confidence in your team mates........

Edited May 23, 2011 by Legendsinc

[jackaub 1,402]

I had to wonder where I was today???

I had just come from my 7 year-old grand-daughter's NETA (netball for beginners) match, where they all run around in a group, one gets the ball and then instead of going with their first option of throwing the ball to someone is free, they wait for 30 seconds and then throw to a contest.

BUT these are young girls and boys that are just learning the game.

WHEREAS, I sit and watch guys that have been playing the game for years doing exactly the same thing, for Christ sake, go with your first option and you won't get either caught or do something stupid and give it to someone else who is just about to be tackled.......it ain't frigging rocket science.

and by the way, as long as I'm having a whinge......has jack Watts slept around with all the players' partners as I lost count the number of time he had made space, and was by himself jumping up and down, they look at him and then kick it to a contested situation....for god's sake, have confidence in your team mates........

Hey mate I posted this last year they have been doing it since Jack joined the club

I thought Jack was very good today im impressed

I just hope the pissant weak culture in the club doesnt kill hiss desire pls jack hang tough

[jackaub 1,402]

I think davey is one of the most important players at the club. Everyony is entitled to an off day. Same with jurrah, and i have seen everygame for ober ten years

OFF Day how about an off career I have never seen him Play 4 quarters i have never seen him play the hard ball

GWS pls make an offer

[Pates 9,537]

and by the way, as long as I'm having a whinge......has jack Watts slept around with all the players' partners as I lost count the number of time he had made space, and was by himself jumping up and down, they look at him and then kick it to a contested situation....for god's sake, have confidence in your team mates........

Yeah I noticed that as well, he was working bloody hard all day to create options and it was very rarely rewarded, that kinda thing would make a bloke start thinking "what's the point?"

Edited May 21, 2011 by Pates

[lucifer 119]

Ok my thoughts on the game aren't completely out of whack with everyone else.

Pros:

- I thought we were more competitive (Bailey's favourite word) for longer today, we crash and bashed and match intensity for much of the the game. First 5 minutes of the 4th quarter were disappointing given how close we were but at least we didn't let it blow out. Given how depleted we are it could've been worse.

- Jetta showed he can actually play a role if he wishes to, needs to be backed up next week but it was a good step forward.

- Pickles had a very good debut, he didn't look at all daunted and has certainly earned a retention next week.

- Watts. The bloke ran his ass off all day and did some very good things, he looked like a footballer and will no doubt be relishing getting his hands on the footy more and more. The next step is for him to kick 3+ goals in a game.

- Stef Martin is holding up in the ruck, in fact he's better than holding up. This is not only a positive for him but for the Russian as he won't feel like he's got the whole rucking duties resting on his shoulders when he returns.

Cons:

- SKILLS!!!! Fricken woeful at times today. Not just that but the decision making while disposing of it was terrible, we bled goals and good chances for US to kick goals from simple stupid errors that simply should not happen.

- Jurrah, going to cut him some slack as everyone's entitled to an off day but when he's not on he needs to work on 1) body language and 2) 2nd efforts, both were disgusting to watch today.

- Bate, used to really like him but bugger me he was a liability today. WOG for mine. Dunn's out for one more week, he'd better show something soon or he'll be Matthew-trade-Bait at the end of the year.

- Petterd, love watching the bloke, he can be one of my favourite players but he seems to have lost the competitive spirit that made him so good last year. Hope he'll come back from this.

- Newton, no explanation needed. He's simply not up to it, but he's there because we have no choice. As soon as Gawn's ready to go, get him out.

I could go on and on, but for me what it comes down to is the team out there is simply not good enough. I'd almost commend them for staying in touch for so long today, if i didn't see for myself how down on confidence the saints are. We could've won today, but i get the feeling this will be the last close call we have for a while.

I also agree with the original posters thoughts on Bailey, I see no use in giving him the flick during this year and there's no point in hounding to club to do it. He has very average team to work with at the moment so it's impossible to judge him properly, and calling for the axe will only create more negative pressure on our club.

Good post. Agree with basically everything you have said here. I must admit, after the West Coast match I was one of the "Bailey has to be knifed now!" crew. Saying that, he will be gone, it'sjust a case of waiting until the end of the season. What this club needs is to not accept the bullshi*t anymore. I would much rather see Howe and Gawn making mistakes than Newton and Bate who clearly are just treading water and waiting to be culled at the end of the year.

[Dockett 32 1,213]

"At least two, possibly three of those players would not be in our best 22 if we had a full list to choose from."

Maybe so Nasher, but I find it difficult to totally cop that sort of comment in relation to our performance. It's just such an easy croc to go with and fall back on week after week.

In the case of Bate and Newton, both have been at the club since Abraham played fullback for Jerusalem and neither have reached anywhere near the level I'm sure the club had for them. I'm not going to go on about them, suffice to say they just haven't made a worthwhile impact for the MFC and have had numerous chances.

Frankly it surprises me why they would be selected ahead of say Cook in our current position, as we pretty much know how things will pan out with them and these blokes aren't likely to get any better. Bate has the turning circle of a B Double and Juice doesn't have enough of the footy smarts or grit.

I realise Cook is young and raw, but so was Watts and he's coming along quite ok and a young rookie in Evans was a surprise packet today.

So if a Rookie can put his hand up , show the right stuff and embarrass some of his older team mates with his attitude, why cant an all Australian first rounder be expected to respond in a similar manner when he gets his chance?

Sooner or later you have to expose these kids and my view would be make it sooner rather than later if the other option simply doesn't work and it doesn't appear to.

All clubs get injuries and you just have to win games inspite of them. There is nowhere to hide over the seasons journey and our season is slowly slipping away.

St. Kilda for instance had Lenny Hayes out and kids in Cripps and Winmar in, they turfed out Mc Evoy so I don't think we had much of an excuse at all today.

There were some good things today for sure, but not much in the forward half. This has been a problem for a long time and I would like to see some more imagination.

[Cheesy D. Pun 1,762]

While it is not in his "nature"to be coached, there are still basics of footy that you need to show, and he doens't do those often enough.

Not sure what you're alluding to here Billy.

[stranga 328]

One thing I've learnt is that VFL form for senior players is misleading and irrelevant- eg bate, j Mac, newton.

Davey will not be part of any future success and his attitude and poor leadership is a prime reason for our problems.

Most of our senior players are down hill skiers.

Our gameplan is ludicrous. The sideways movement and switching across half back is bizarre and not afl standard. There are no areas of the gameplan that are effective. ZERO.

newton suits Melbourne. He's an embarrassment.

[DemonOX 8,541]

Educated supporters would not be calling for Bailey's head given the insipid display from our so called leadership group.

Tell'em hes dreamin. I must be uneducated then?????

[H_T 2,941]

Thanks Clint. Shame there will only be 2 of us on here that think the same. Rick, I like him, the same way I like Robbo, but PLEASE...

I have my concerns now and again with him. I was critical of one of his one handed attempts last week against North. A half-hearted attempt at a mark. You're not the only two here thinking the same re: Ricky, so I wouldn't be pushing that campaign.

Pros from today:

- Gysberts is the real deal

- Amazing debut from Pickles

- Jetta took a step up

- Watts just keeps getting better

- Martin is a fair dinkum ruckman

- Sylvia looked out for blood

- Great to see Jordie Mac back in action

- Jones - every team needs one. Beyond reproach.

- Beamer (again).

Cons:

- Davey is a squib and must be dropped

- Newton is a squib and has had too many chances already

- Bate is simply not up to it

- Jurrah inconsistent

- Another low impact game from Ricky

- Another good player injured

We would have won if everyone came to play today. We simply aren't good enough to have passengers on the oval. I'm interested to see the response from Bailey. If he won't drop the squibs, then he has to share the blame.

Good summary of pro's and con's, agree entirely.

[Nasher 33,131]

"At least two, possibly three of those players would not be in our best 22 if we had a full list to choose from."

Maybe so Nasher, but I find it difficult to totally cop that sort of comment in relation to our performance. It's just such an easy croc to go with and fall back on week after week.

In the case of Bate and Newton, both have been at the club since Abraham played fullback for Jerusalem and neither have reached anywhere near the level I'm sure the club had for them. I'm not going to go on about them, suffice to say they just haven't made a worthwhile impact for the MFC and have had numerous chances.

I don't disagree with anything you've said there. But as I said (can't remember whether it was in this thread or not) I don't allow myself to spend energy being upset about what Bate and Newton do because they're just filler and have no bearing on our flag push in a few years time. They just won't be there. Their poor efforts today no doubt was a large contributor to the loss, but in the big picture these guys struggling really means SFA.

[Dockett 32 1,213]

Probably a good way to look at it in trying and retain one's sanity.

[The Chazz 4,077]

Not sure what you're alluding to here Billy.

What I am alluding to is the fact that Jurrah has obviously got natural talents that weren't developed through the traditional system, therefore, he may not have had the exposure to the level of coaching that a lot of others have. Becuase if this, and his amazing instinct, it was well documented when he first burst on the scene that he would be a hard player to coach. Numerous experts said that you wouldn't want to coach him too much at the risk of him needing to think too much rather than just doing what is natural. I totally agree with this opinion, but as a poster said earlier, the small things like body language, etc, they should be pointed out to Liam as an area of immediate improvement.

Hopefully that has answered your post WA. I'd also like to know what you thought I was meaning. I have been acused of the "R" word on here before, your post had the same smell.

I sent a text message to a couple of friends last night regarding MR Davey. It said something like this;

"If Davey isn't dropped, we know what the Club accepts. If he is, it'll show us what they expect". From a supporters point of view, and after continually hearing about we must make a stand, there will be no better way to prove it than dropping one of our leaders for a dismal display.