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6 hours ago, stevethemanjordan said:

* Would like to make an apology to @Wiseblood for my last few posts directed to him. Supporting this team is infuriating at times.

All good, Steve.  I know we share some different perspectives on the club, but at the core of it all we just want what is best for our club and to see it succeed.

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22 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

Classic Saty.  Gets stuck into people for having an opinion, and when he's challenged on it he raises his hands in the air and claims it's just 'his opinion.'  

Serve, volley, pot, kettle, doesn't need to be pursued, stick your hands in your pockets!

Tiresome, tiresome, tiresome!

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Are they coaching issues though? How do you know?

At this level, navigating how to enter the forward 50 in a smart and deliberate way is up to the individual. Bombing it aimlessly forward when your entire team know that the opposition have a loose man sitting back is not the coaches fault.

Take our forward running set-play as an example: When we send a half-forward to run in off the square at a centre bounce from the half backline, it obviously means the oppo have a spare defender sitting inside our forward 50. Our players should be fully aware of that so if we happen to win a clearance at that centre bounce because of our extra runner coming through, we need to be entering our forward 50 with purpose and care, not just blazing away. 

The coach sets these plays. The individuals must carry them out.

 

Tempo footy really isn't a plan B imo.

It's just common sense.

However, I'm more interested in the part before the "tide had turned", so to speak.

I've just revisited the Brisbane game and there are were number of warning signs halfway through the third quarter that are the reason we lost control: 

- Individuals lost their ability to be clean with the ball in the contest

- Some certain individuals lost some critical one-on-one contests at important times

- The level of our ball use dropped significantly

- We missed some opportunities to kick very easy goals during that quarter

It was a matter of Brisbane picking up their contest game and ball use and us dropping away heavily in that area. That was the difference. Had we still been clean around the ball and kept our ball use up, the quarter would have been halved imo. 

 

 

I like your analysis stmj.

train as you play... I wonder if the Lions train when its most humid and slippery, up in brizzy.

 

Maybe that is something we could adapt into our training, on occaisions; soak the ground Pre training to create a slippery training environment,  to aid our ball handling skills, for coming wet &/or night games.

It wouldn't hurt having to handle the ball in slippery training conditions, fairly regularly.

We complain about our skill levels, lets train in harder conditions then to master them.

Edited by DV8

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51 minutes ago, dworship said:

Serve, volley, pot, kettle, doesn't need to be pursued, stick your hands in your pockets!

Tiresome, tiresome, tiresome!

Yes, I know.  He's tiresome.

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There are far too many Goodwin apologists on this thread.

Allowing the opposition to have 1 or even 2 more extra players around the contest all day is just dumb, particularly given the lack of leg speed in the side. All it does is allow the opposition to win easy clearances, stream forward in number and pepper our defensive 50.

Playing loose men in defence can be okay if those players are getting to contests and helping out their teammates. I assumed we paid a fortune for Lever for this purpose, not so he could be outmuscled by a first gamer. Having guys like Lewis and Wagner bludge around by themselves at the top of the 50 getting cheap kicks is pointless.

When you are getting smashed in the clearances you need to put more players around the ball, not less. And you need to get players spreading to provide short options to maintain possession for a time, rather than just kicking down the line to a 1 on 3 contest forever.

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At the moment our team is still developing. Any amount of practice at training is not the same as match conditions. That means the coach has to give players the opportunity to develop particular skills or roles during games. My view of the drop off against Geelong was that it occurred when players such as Maynard and Hannan were the centre midfielders. That's not to say it was wrong to have them there, but with their lack of experience in that role, it was always going to increase the risk of a poorer team performance while they were there.

I haven't looked closely enough at the Brisbane game to see if the run of goals against us coincided with any particular set-up. But I'm reasonably confident Salem was playing a different role (inside mid, if not run with player) all night as part of his education. 

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On 4/1/2018 at 11:17 AM, Diamond_Jim said:

nteresting that the WCE coach had to return to Perth due to a family emergency (daughter ill) and the assistant took the reins. They had a good win and the assistant made the comment that there really isn't much to do on match day as most of the planing is done during the week

All we need to know, though stating the obvious. 

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1 hour ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

At the moment our team is still developing. Any amount of practice at training is not the same as match conditions. That means the coach has to give players the opportunity to develop particular skills or roles during games. My view of the drop off against Geelong was that it occurred when players such as Maynard and Hannan were the centre midfielders. That's not to say it was wrong to have them there, but with their lack of experience in that role, it was always going to increase the risk of a poorer team performance while they were there.

I haven't looked closely enough at the Brisbane game to see if the run of goals against us coincided with any particular set-up. But I'm reasonably confident Salem was playing a different role (inside mid, if not run with player) all night as part of his education. 

Pedersen was rucking in that middle-end part of the 3rd

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2 hours ago, poita said:

There are far too many Goodwin apologists on this thread.

Allowing the opposition to have 1 or even 2 more extra players around the contest all day is just dumb, particularly given the lack of leg speed in the side. All it does is allow the opposition to win easy clearances, stream forward in number and pepper our defensive 50.

Playing loose men in defence can be okay if those players are getting to contests and helping out their teammates. I assumed we paid a fortune for Lever for this purpose, not so he could be outmuscled by a first gamer. Having guys like Lewis and Wagner bludge around by themselves at the top of the 50 getting cheap kicks is pointless.

When you are getting smashed in the clearances you need to put more players around the ball, not less. And you need to get players spreading to provide short options to maintain possession for a time, rather than just kicking down the line to a 1 on 3 contest forever.

We won the centre clearances 14-10 against Brisbane and 14-11 against the Cats

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10 hours ago, poita said:

There are far too many Goodwin apologists on this thread.

Allowing the opposition to have 1 or even 2 more extra players around the contest all day is just dumb, particularly given the lack of leg speed in the side. All it does is allow the opposition to win easy clearances, stream forward in number and pepper our defensive 50.

Playing loose men in defence can be okay if those players are getting to contests and helping out their teammates. I assumed we paid a fortune for Lever for this purpose, not so he could be outmuscled by a first gamer. Having guys like Lewis and Wagner bludge around by themselves at the top of the 50 getting cheap kicks is pointless.

When you are getting smashed in the clearances you need to put more players around the ball, not less. And you need to get players spreading to provide short options to maintain possession for a time, rather than just kicking down the line to a 1 on 3 contest forever.

We don't do this, though.

In fact, I kind of feel like this post is the complete opposite.

We put a spare man at the back of the square at centre bounces. That player provides run towards our goal and is our extra man around the contest.

The opposition usually then takes their spare man and stations them floating in our 50.

We regularly win the clearances and get the ball inside 50 as a result, but then turn it over because of the loose man in defence.

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On 01/04/2018 at 1:55 PM, RalphiusMaximus said:

We may have good player development, but we don't have match day coaches and our gameplan has some serious deficiencies. 

That’s crap, we had 8 players behind the ball to stop the bleeding. 

What else would you expect him to do

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12 hours ago, rjay said:

There is a lot of premature speculation going on here.

Everyone take a deep breath and read....

http://www.hawkheadquarters.com/article.aspx?articleid=2261

 

Also relevantly, both Richmond (Hardwick) and Geelong (Thompson) stuck with coaches for longer than most other clubs would have done. Turned out well for them in the end.

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13 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Also relevantly, both Richmond (Hardwick) and Geelong (Thompson) stuck with coaches for longer than most other clubs would have done. Turned out well for them in the end.

hope we don't have to wait as long as Richmond did with Hardwick.

MFC needs success if it is to remain financially relevant. Clubs cannot afford to bounce along the bottom for as long as we have.

If you want a lesson in failure watch what happens if Carlton have another bad year.

We have the list .... just like a player the coach is under scrutiny.. so far it has not been a great success.

At present this thread is about what he does as a coach.... game plan... player development... match day tactics.

No one is calling for his head.

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27 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

hope we don't have to wait as long as Richmond did with Hardwick.

MFC needs success if it is to remain financially relevant. Clubs cannot afford to bounce along the bottom for as long as we have.

If you want a lesson in failure watch what happens if Carlton have another bad year.

We have the list .... just like a player the coach is under scrutiny.. so far it has not been a great success.

At present this thread is about what he does as a coach.... game plan... player development... match day tactics.

No one is calling for his head.

That's the reason why the Clarkson experience is so relevant.

He was criticised relentlessly early in the piece by many of the so called football experts for his game plan.

Now he's praised as a visionary and one of the coaching greats.

Goodwin is a very young coach, I think he has the right stuff to be an excellent coach even though I don't agree with some of his moves. I think he has made some basic rookie errors in his first few years but accept this is going to happen.

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Posted (edited)

agree rjay but remember that the Hawks were coming form a position of relative strength.

We don't have that luxury.

It is a pity that the VFL is a reserves comp where winning is not really the number one priority. Where does  a"young coach" go for experience. Being an assistant is the best we can do but it is not the trial by fire required for a match day coach.

Edited by Diamond_Jim

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Did anyone hear Goodwin's interview on SEN this morning?

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3 minutes ago, loges said:

Thank you Ethan

No worries. I’m guessing they didn’t just speak about the ‘camp’ but that’s all I could find. 

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On 02/04/2018 at 9:48 AM, Yokozuna said:

Many good points on this discussion. 

Out of interest, how many people on here have coached a high level AFL side before?

not saying people can't have an opinion unless they have coached, but it may help understand some things better.

One of people's arguments about him being a poor coach is his demeanour when the camera is in him. That is a load of crap, it means nothing. Just cos Clarkson is demonstrative, does that make him a better coach???

others point out the poor play by players and some of our tactics like bombing it forward to nobody. Do you honestly think the coaches tell players to get the ball and bomb it to nobody??? 

 

Coached 2s in AFL Canberra.

But that is immaterial to the bolded - if the same players keep on doing the opposite of what they are instructed then either the players don't listen, can't institute it and/or it should be abandoned because they are being asked to play a style they can't execute.

They better we get the more I would want to isolate our best players and leaving Hogan to battle 2 extra defenders doesn't support that.

Something to look out for this week: North will love it if we 'just kick the bloody thing' this week considering our forward line and how we overload the defensive side of the contest...

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10 hours ago, rpfc said:

Coached 2s in AFL Canberra.

But that is immaterial to the bolded - if the same players keep on doing the opposite of what they are instructed then either the players don't listen, can't institute it and/or it should be abandoned because they are being asked to play a style they can't execute.

They better we get the more I would want to isolate our best players and leaving Hogan to battle 2 extra defenders doesn't support that.

Something to look out for this week: North will love it if we 'just kick the bloody thing' this week considering our forward line and how we overload the defensive side of the contest...

I fear rpfc that is exactly what will happen

I cant watch ?

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Out coached again today!

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Found out again.

Pathetic.

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