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Do you really think Tim Lamb and co haven't been exploring the possibility of trading in a key forward since 2021? Hell, we brought BBB in that year to fill that precise need, which was a key part of our flag. We have drafted multiple tall forwards since (JVR, Jefferson), clearly conscious of BBB and TMac's injury situations. Dermott seems to think we've been sitting back in banana lounges oblivious to this need. It turns out, quality key forwards are [censored] hard to find, and teams that find one tend to pay them well, making it extremely hard to pry them loose.

Thanks for creating the debate. It is the way we play. The coaches haven't evolved our ways. First half, we tried the old get the ball in and hold it there (2 goals in a half). In the third, the clearances from the centre got us back in, by having some space for Fritta to operate in. Sydney adjusted, and went down the corridors on us, as we tired in the fourth. Cannot waste the domination of inside 50's, like we did in the first half. Push those little forwards out of the area. They are clogging the space, and not getting back to be front and centre. The angles of the lead are straight, really need to hit a pack from the side, or run into space with angles. In my opinion Derm is wrong about the players, it is the structure. At this level they all have some capacity, if only we could bring the best out of each other. Get a forwards coach!

I’m going to say that I don’t believe that getting a good key forward would make much difference to our current woes - not without massive changes to the way we play the game and to our skill set. Firstly, we don’t have a forward coach who can effectively teach leading patterns, and proper forward skills - either that or our players are too dumb to follow instructions. (I have never seen a forward line as stagnant and crowded as ours often is - or as many players flying for a mark at any one time, - or so few players roving the packs for the inevitable spills). Secondly, we don’t seem to have the skills in our midfield to hit leading targets, even if our forwards did offer leads, nor the nous to move the ball quickly forward so that the opposition don’t have the time to flood our forward line. Fix these issues first, then we might find that our current forwards might actually be all we need. Until we do, a new key forward would simply be a waste of money. We had a great forward recently in Jessie Hogan, and we wasted his ability with our our game plan (or lack there of) and our inability to hit his leads. I think it all boils down to coaching - and, on evidence so far, we are failing badly at this.

Far out. the Swans scored 22 times from 65 inside 50's we scored 19 times from 51 inside 50's we were more efficient than the Swans, in awful conditions, missing some key players from the front end.

Quite right old . The gap between a good amateur and a top line pro is light years in almost any sport.

Seriously any AFL footballer is likely to murder all but a very few posters here. I played with a guy in juniors who "only" made AFL Reserves level but he was honestly 10x better than me.

Whatever you think of GWS, their media team appears to be further ahead of others in terms of putting out content that's not stock standard. For mine, this is just funny stuff.

I went to our game Thursday and again tonight I have to say that I do have a soft spot for GWS mainly because both Hogan and Bedford were favs - both played very very well tonight It was a joy sitting in amongst some of the most feral animals and clueless Collingwood fans imaginable - I walked away thinking we desperately need more jails. It was particularly sweet to hear them turn on Mason and but best of all was the giants fans booing Maynard. Made up for some of the disappointment of Thursday night. Anyway from a footy perspective GWS are a very very good footy side and have strength all over the field - hard to pick a weakness - yes it’s round zero but they will be at the pointy end again this year

Woewodin played half-back for East Fremantle (as well as midfield and forward). He's fast and well skilled. I like speed from a running back. In his third year I see no reason he couldn't slot in there, especially as we've now got 3 wingmen ahead of him.

So we just need to draft a generational power forward and teach our brigade of inside mid players to become classy users of the football overnight. Why didn’t we think of this earlier?!

we should just trade in Charlie Curnow. simples

We went out hard and failed to capitalize with our forward 50 entries - a single goal from the first 29 entries was poor reward for our hard work while the Swans crowded our forward line. And we completely misread the conditions which led to some costly turnovers, particularly in the first half. As a consequence, by the final break, we had used our petrol tickets and they overran us in the final quarter. Very un Melbourne like and the exact opposite of what we usually expect from the team. I think much the same happened last night to the Brisbane Lions except for the fact that they managed to kick accurately for goal in the first quarter. As to Grundy, the club completely mismanaged the situation by putting him completely off side when he was dropped, ostensibly to learn his forward craft. As a consequence, he wasn’t played in the finals and, as Thursday night showed, he would have been handy in the qualifying final and certainly, no worse than Josh Schache in the semi final. I get that the view inside the club was that he wasn’t selected because he had probably “checked out” but it should never have gotten to that stage. We lost a perfect opportunity to win a flag. Worse still was the fact that the public humiliation and alienation of a two time All Australian resulted in our trading him far more cheaply than had we managed things better. The consequence is that we have egg on our faces for the moment and potentially more embarrassment to come.

Disagree we fluked a flag. That was years in the making. All credit to SG, the boys and the club here. They aren't easy to get into let alone win one. But selection integrity severly dented on Thurs night with Spargo getting the nod over Billings. Guy plays and trains his arzz off and plays in both praccys only to be usurped by someone who barely hit the training track the week leading into round zero and coming back from inury. Not the way to build solid player & team morale imv.

They won't abandom the Salem midfield move after one game. They've been trying to get him into the midfield for two years.

Sue, we'll have to agree to disagree on this. I'm guessing the social media team of GWS would have to think outside the box to get attention. I like it. And yes, I am relatively infantile.

Fullarton likely, Jed Adams impressive, Brown rusty but they might bite the bullet, Brown dog good but needs time, Tholly not far of. Sestan? currently offers more than Spargo and or Chandler. T. Mac impressive at Full Back

I haven't read the article. I loved Brereton as a player, but I'm just wondering: How long has it been since he stepped foot inside club-land? Oh, that's right. 18 years. How long since he worked in a recruitment department? Never. When did he last coach an Australian rules football side? Never. Many many rule changes effecting recruitment since he retired? Right again - dozens. What is he paid to do these days? Oh, that's right, talk c%*p. I'll read an article about our unaddressed recruitment problems when someone credible writes such.

There are plenty of words to describe Spargo. I’m not sure “fast” is one of them.

Going to be hard playing from the back pocket! Brent Grgic kicked 10 on me from a half back flank in school footy once… I chalked it up as a ‘learning opportunity”

Just one other thing about Clarry, just after 3/4 time a Port Melbourne player came over to Clayton and the joy, cameraderie,and passion was on display with bear hugs and plenty of backslapping and Bonhomie, clearly hadn't seen each other for a time but the obvious rapport was evident! The Port Melbourne player in question was..... Fraser Rosman a 1 time Dee Was great to see🤩

He was the player I most wanted to see debut this year for the progression of the list. I wasn't so sure after his pre season form. Wow what a great debut in a tough game, in a tough role under the pump. Here are his team rankings in some key stats. 1st intercept possessions 9 5th equal contested possessions 9 6th disposal efficiency 82.4% 6th equal most tackles 3 8th equal most disposals. 17 11th Uncontested possessions 9 12th most metres gained 224 20th game time. (Take into account Laurie was subbed off, Bowey went off injured, Billings was only the sub)

Finished 1st end of home and away season and beat the Lions before destroying the Cats and Dogs in the next 2 finals. Geelong went on to win it the following year. 2021 was no fluke.

This is a hard one picket. At times I think Goody is not a great coach. I then reflect on results. He won us our first flag in 57 years. The last 2 years we have spent 2 weeks out of the top 4. In 22 we had injuries derail our flag chances, with Clarry, Trac, Max and several others all injured in the finals. In 2023 we had injuries absolutely kill us at the end of the year, Gus knocked out and then JVR suspended. We lost all 4 finals in 2022 and 2023, not only with the injuries and suspensions, but with terrible kicking for goal, with more scoring shots than our opposition in every game. We had bad luck with Max touching a goal from Clarry and then a goal being taken off ANB for God knows what against Carlton. So better luck with injuries, dirty knock outs and suspensions, but most importantly reasonable kicking for goal, could have seen us with 2 more flags. What would we say about Goody as a Coach then. Which of the above factors is the Coaches' fault, injuries, suspension, dirty play and poor goal kicking? Would it be unfair to say that Petty, Melk, Gus and/or a fit BBB and Tom Mac playing and we beat the Pies and and go straight into the PF against GWS and then possibly into the GF against Brisbane? Can we criticize Goody for perceived mistakes, absolutely, but gee, look at the above and there is a clear argument to say he is unlucky not to be a triple flag coach right now.

“They simply have not improved their key forwards stock for five year whilst they’ve had the best list in the competition.” JVR may well become a very good (or better) key forward but in his second year at AFL level he cannot be expected to be a solo KPF. Yes blaming injuries may be seen as a cop out but every time last season we did seem to form a combination injury struck. I hope we can conjure up a support for JVR before any possible call of the west takes hold. And as for Dermie saying he doesn’t read the play well or know how to position as a KPF, can anyone answer why we have a ruckman as a forward coach? Maybe Dermie could put his hand up and become the messiah who converts our forward line into greatness.

After reading the in game posts i was fearful of watching the replay We lacked composure with the ball. We were in the game Looking forward to being in the demon army next sunday Go Dees!

I'd agree our accuracy isn't great, however look at how we take our shots. Lots of marks taken deep in the pockets on the boundary. Lots of snaps through congested traffic under pressure from chaos balls. Of course we're going to miss lots of those. Teams rebound off us and move it fast into an open forward line. Fritta one on one, Kozzy one on one, JVR leading into space would make a huge difference to our conversion rates. It's a dog's breakfast in there. Watching Viney drag two guys on his back while he snaps goals is fantastic to watch but it's low percentage play. Locking the ball in with 32 players in the f50 arc is low percentage play and leads to poor conversion.

That’s when we have them all available. Thats not often either. New coach even Mini not Stafford. If he can’t get his message across move him on. Need an expert from who is unbiased to go in and spend time with the group and come up with some moves etc. Employ Johnno Brown perhaps Mathew Lloyd or Jack Reiwolt ??

Lets start with McAdam, like he's not in our side now he spent a lot of time injured at Adelaide. Ok, we've been through this a lot but you don't want to believe it. We all know there's a problem, the coach, the FD, the fans, the media... The game plan can be argued, it drives me to distraction as well. ...but if we don't have the forwards it's no point opening the game up for opposition rebound. We would get scored heavily against. As much as I hate the game plan, I don't think it's the issue. It's the cattle...you can't put out a forward line of Schache, Chandler, Laurie & Spargo and expect big scores. ...but the options weren't really there. Every time we've come up with something that looks to work injury has struck us down. Petty straightens us up, McAdam will be a help and I reckon Tholstrup will be a beauty. Kozzy cost us big time the other night. The game plan will change when we get the forward mix right. Bringing Salem into the midfield mix will also be a big help, but again injury (Bowey) might torpedo this. I sure hope we persist. We're not refusing to acknowledge there is a problem, as you say Goody himself acknowledges it to the point of boredom.

Demonland has a Job Vacancy for a Resident Optimist. Catharsis seekers and flagellants need only apply.

The AFL has adopted a policy of not releasing the body weights of individual players. Apparently, this has something to do with not body shaming fat or thin footballers so the media only gets supplied with height figures. Please don’t get me started on this one.

If you think the FD don't know this and haven't tried to fix the problem you've got rocks in your head. Every one can bang on about it as much as they want but what is the answer. You can't make an in contract player just decide to come to us. The only proven out of contract KPF available over the last few years was BBB and we got him. Some other contracts have come up but their clubs know their value and have made it near impossible to pry them away.

Let’s just say I didn’t have AFL recruiters knocking down my door. For all of his shortcomings at the top level, Brent was actually a fairly handy junior footballer

Given the system we play with, I don’t think many players would choose MFC as a destination currently. The type of players we would benefit from (creativity and flair) don’t fit the preferred method of play.

As i have said for the last two seasons and early on in Thursday night's match.... "my kingdom for a genuine power CHF". The bolded excerpt below from Dermy tells the tale in terms of not having a genuinely dangerous tall forward. It's also incredible to think that we are still persisting with an ex ruckman (Stafford) as our forward line coach more than two years after attempting to fix our forward line issues and not having any lasting success that consistently stands up (to this point) against the more rated oppo ... “I think Jacob van Rooyen has got some talent and he can mark the ball above his head but the thing about key forward play is that you’ve got to recognise the trigger and it’s less than a second, it’s ‘this ball is coming this way I’ve got to be in the right position’. “Previous to the trigger moment you actually have to start in the right position, and he doesn’t have the right starting position and I don’t know who’s teaching him or not teaching him those little tricks. “They are impotent without ground level players"....

No worries derm, we'll open the *checks notes*.... march trade period and send the dogs pick 83 for JUH, that should sort it out

I'd replace Bowey with Woewodin, who played multiple positions as a junior at East Fremantle, including as a running half-back. It's his third year and imo he's ready. Fullerton seems a no brainer for Schache, who hopefully never plays AFL again. Pickett replaces Laurie, who's not good enough at AFL level. I doubt they'll make more than 3 changes, but the sooner they deem Kynan Brown ready the better. He already looks better than all our smalls bar Pickett, even with a small sample size.

I along with others have been banging on about this for the last two years hope someone is reading this at Melbourne. https://www.sen.com.au/news/2024/03/09/they-were-impotent-why-do-melbourne-refuse-to-address-their-biggest-flaw/

Pies were shell shocked, having to jump on a plane to play a game, 1st interstate game since round 19, you c as b only imagine if GWS or the lions had the same draw, the pies supporters would be all over it! Until the afl fix the rigged draw!

It’s our inability to halt momentum. Would love to see us change things up a bit more when teams get a run on and go more man on defence or even a split zone decence but we seem to persist with a full zone. Our mantra is contest and defence yet we play so much zone. Would love us to mix things up a bit more than we do. And then when we do win the ball more speed in transition, honour the switch and have some forwards that actually stay at home instead of pushing so high up the ground.

The TV coverage literally showed footage of Gawn's on field pre-game rev-up to the players, where he was saying (paraphrasing) "after everything we've had going on this pre-season, give me everything you've got for the first 5 minutes. The first 5 minutes. The other 115 minutes we can worry about when we get there." Seems he got the desired effect.

Giants look scary good. Hard at the contest, speed, skill. Very disciplined across the ground with everyone playing their role. Have the ability to make the ground small when defending but big when they are in possession which is great coaching. The thing that stood out for me was their talls would fly for a mark or bring it to ground and every single time there was a small at their feet ready. Can play tempo footy at the right time.Talent and structure the team to beat this year for me.

Collingwood premiership window closing?

Maybe you should write the club a letter?Things can sometimes be overlooked in organisations with a lot of cogs, so it's possible the 'improve the forward line' memo just got lost in someone's inbox tray.

Totally crazy talk.

Given he is one of our best field kicks this is terrible news Courageous act with undeserved consequences - speedy recovery Jake

all this handwringing about jefferson is absurd 23 goals in his first vfl season is not bad give the kid a chance to develop

There are a number of good reasons for BBB's inclusion. His forward play nous and experience. His reliable kicking. The fact he will draw defenders and thus take the focus off JVR and frittata. However, given his age and wonky knees, the big question is whether he has the fitness and durability to run out a game at AFL level. Hopefully the coaching staff have and accurate and reliable take on this.

I felt sorry for Jefferson at numerous points last year because that forward line he was trying to get a kick in was land of the giants and even with injuries this year, it’s still massive. He battled along side Tmac, BB, Joel Smith, Schache at numerous points last year and still kicked 20 odd goals. This year he’s still battling BB, Schache will be back there, Fullarton potentially + Verrall and Kyah Farris-White. Unfortunately I think this year will be another of development for Jeffo but the fact Melbourne extended his contract very quickly to the end of 26’ shows what the club know they have in my opinion. Next year, a lot of those older fringe talls will be gone, and Jeffo will be able to have some space to get to work. Big forwards take time. JVR was the anomaly of that in his second season last year, not normality.

Shock no1 soo we are crying out for key forwards. So WHY is T Mac at Full Back and Jefferson im the Back Pocket? BROWN 1 from limited opps FULLARTON 2 great pack marks and rucking well BROWNDOG Busy JED ADAMS Very good THOLSRUUP AND SESTAN Lively MONiz WAKEFIELD Coposed WOEY OK ALSO; WHO IS THE ONLY SENIOR PLAYER WATCHING???????? CLARRY CHOO CHOO😇🤩😎