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Watched the whole 7 periods on replay last night. Reason for most of Richmond's goals were sloppy turnovers from us, or poor ball handling aka. May fumbling, turning over and them goaling. Thought the ball movement when we were scoring goals was pretty good and our depth of forward 50 entries was good. JVR leading up and very nearly clunking quite a few was promising for early in the season. To everyone saying we have to stop bombing into the forward 50, but they think we're a tall forward or two short down there, we can't have it both ways. The tall forwards want the ball coming in high or so they can get a run and jump at it. Everyone saying we need to lower our eyes and hit up targets, means forget the tall forwards, just play smaller guys and look for them to lead to space/ball carrier. Which by the sounds of it no one wants that either. Pressure on in the contest and the ball carrier on the wing for example, means they might have to put the ball on the boot quickly and therefore go long and high into the forward 50. We can't expect the ball to be coming in fast with space all the time, given our high-contest game, and opposition zone defences. Sounds like people want perfect leads and passes every time. Not realistic. I actually think the bigger issue is the separation of our tall forwards. To me it seem like they're always flying for the same ball. Easy for defenders for mine. Get separation and try and create a one-on-one and back our guys in. As the commentators were saying during the broadcast, we were top 5 for inside forward 50 efficiency (score per entry) during the home and away season last year, and top 5 for scoring in general. That obviously wasn't the case in the two finals we lost, but also, saying our method is completely useless is also not true. Tweak it yes. Say it doesn't work and completely change the way you play. Pretty stupid.

My thoughts on the game is that Richmond were playing at a pretty high intensity and we had about 2-3 guys that got anywhere near that. They laid some massive tackles and bumps and I hardly saw us lay one. The bump on Lever was right in front of me and that was huge! - Trac was really there to get run into his legs and have a few touches. He looked very disinterested. - Most of our backline were lethargic and dropped simple marks (May being the worst of them). Bowey was probably the one shining light there. I will hold judgement on Thommo for now given after the first 20 minutes the ball was coming in at a rate of knots. - Obviously there are still concerns for our forward line, but if we can get McAdam and Petty on the park that could really change things. Even Fullarton as a big 200cm target would be handy. - I was super impressed with Windsor, even though his kicking was a bit off today. His speed is incredible to watch and he went hard a number of times, including getting crunched by Nathan Broad. The best thing is he came back on in the 2nd half and didn't take a backward step. He has so much potential it's great to see. - Really liked what I saw from Billings and started to work is way into the game in the second half with some nice link up play and elite footskills. He will be important for us. - I'm not super confident for our start to the season at the moment, though will hold on going hard early until I see how we play v Carlton. I am expecting them to be a lot sharper and increased pressure as the final game before the season starts. - I was also pretty happy with Will Verral and thought he showed a bit. He is obviously very raw still, but he's put on quite a bit of size and is really athletic. Also looks a reliable set shot kick. I could see him as our ruck/forward in future.

I'm firmly in the camp refusing to draw any conclusions from that game. Who knows what the coaches wanted to see out there? People are bemoaning that we couldn't stop their 10 goal run, but did we even try? Was it more important that we stopped that run on, or more important that we kept experimenting with setups, structures and ball mvement? The second quarter centre square combos looked very unusual to me. The outcome of preseason games, both good or bad, has and will never be a reliable indicator of what happens in the real season.

Surprised? After you being on here for 13 years?

Kynan Brown is like another Bowey ( who was everywhere by the way),but in the forward half , he just has that zip and mongrel in him, really competitive young man. I think we will enjoy the silkiness of Windsor for many years to come , just looks the goods. TMac will take Thommos spot . We just need a fit Petty in that forward line along with McAdam and we will be fine. Plenty of options in the midfield now with Trac, Oliver, Sparrow, Kozzie, Salem and Billing’s Viney is an absolute machine and is my early pick for B&F Special mention to Rivers who looks like going up another level again.

Indeed. Avoiding injury is another objective. The foundation of our game plan, like every other club, is pressure. Pressure creates turnovers. As one of the commentators said, 70% of scoring now comes from turnovers. But pressure also causes injuries. We only applied something even close to AFL pressure in the first 20 mins of each half. And even then it was miles off what we see round one. The tigers weren't applying much pressure in those phases We dominated in those periods. Kicking five unanswered goals to start the game. When the tigers lifted their pressure ratings, they dominated, kicking 10 straight at one point. Until the last couple of years practice games were not broadcast. And rightly people paid little heed to them. Yes, with only one proper preseason game the practice match is a bit more significant - but it remains a PRACTICE match. In addition to getting players conditioned to something like AFL intensity, it's an opportunity to practice things, eg new roles, strategies and ball movement Examples yesterday included Windsor on a wing, Howes at half back, Schache rucking, Verrel rucking solo for a half, more time in the middle for koz, ditto for nibbla, salo on ball, inside 50 kicks, leading patterns and our long handball chains. On the latter, i had a memory of old dees fans at the g back in the mid 2000s yelling "JUST KICK IT!!!!!' when we were employing the then standard, yet sometimes frustrating, strategy of moving the ball forward with chains of handballs. If we start using chains of handballs again, the equivalent fans might have to yell "JUST KICK IT - BUT DON'T BOMB IT IN - HIT A LEADING TARGET - SO DON'T JUST KICK IT INDISCRIMINATELY !!!!!"

No one's crying... and no one particularly cares for snotty glib sarcy rubbish as that either. Not everyone needs to have a Mack truck 4 feet from them to understand where they are may not be the best place. Some things can be seen a mile away... and that allows you to do something. Without doubt there were many and varied 'experiments' and trials played out yesterday. I would suggest almost all failed. That in and of itself can be a positive if the yeah-nahh rule is applied. That was Richmond.... a team without ( on paper) the same prospects as us. They had at least half a dozen of their top dozen players missing.. they're still getting used to a new coach, new ways.... and they made us look very ordinary.. On a day when much is tried I struggled to see or identify anything...ANYTHING...that made me think... yeah...that's working....needs work, but has promise. It was a 2023 dogs breakfast , chucked up and dished out. I firmly hope the game against Carlton is better, and more representative of our true intents this year. Go Dees

Some take aways: I suspect they are in a heavy training phase. Cooked after the first 20 min untill half time. First 15 mins of third up and about after a break. Then cooked again Being cooked exacerbated our biggest issue - our kicking skills accross the board. Outside of the first 20 mins of the game, even our best kicks turned it over, and our average kicks, of which there are many, were horrendous Very much the classic practice match. One example was the focus on practising hand ball chains to move the ball downfield In the last couple of years our practice match has been our main preseason hitout, not the community cup. I suspect not this year - Max won't be coming off at half time against the blues. Verell looked ok. Koz is a star. Viney was terrific. JVR will go up one or two levels. Good to see them give schachw a run in the ruck. Makes perfect sense, and i think is the only way he cements a starting 22 position. Assuming he can improve. I know clarry was playing against VFL players, but somehow it made his brilliance even more evident. Sounds stupid, but I think I had forgotten just how good he is. Not bothered at all by the result.

Brayshaw was replaced with Fine Cotton

Probably the best description of his footy I've read. Nails it. All froth and bubble. If he were a beer he'd need a straw and cherry on top. Just as you assert he needs to focus on the football first, flamboyance second. He's a rare talent. He's squandering it presently. It's actually quite annoying

What you see from Kynan is absolutely what you get. He is a heart and soul player like Jack and has far more ability than the average rookie when he signs up. What I like is Kynans absolute unconditional attack on the ball and his general clean hands with it plus his trusty left foot kick with such intent and planting skill in disposal. He didn’t look flustered or under pressure just calm and cool and he runs in a straight line at pace greater than we think. After our delight with Caleb starting to get his game into real shape this is such a bonus that I think Kynan may get small patches on the ball or in the centre. There are no limitations but perhaps building up is a priority so he can be an on baller of the future. Maybe he will debut in the 23 and he would also be a handful as a Sub. Well done Kynan you are going great guns. Looking forward to your continued development.

Scratch match: purpose is to condition the players bodies to the intensity of things to come. People gotta chill.

The new Thurin training centre at Casey was officially opened today, refer club website for details.

Well one would have thought you try different things when teams get run on's that's what practice is for.

@binman: "Some take aways: I suspect they are in a heavy training phase. Cooked after the first 20 min untill half time. First 15 mins of third up and about after a break. Then cooked again" haha have you started to raise "loading" again already Binny? We haven't even reached Round Zero yet!

It was only a practice match with lots of reasons for the way the game was played and the result. However, there was nothing to allay the concerns from 2023. The 10 unanswered goals is a real concern given our inability to lock opponents down and stop the run. Like 2023 there was an inconsistency in application and effort. We play in patches. We see no obvious solutions up forward or with forward connection. In general play, the good is very good but the bad is way too common. How long do we experiment with tactics and game plans? We don’t want to spend the first half of the season experimenting. . We need a better level of effort and consistency. We need stability in team selection and positioning. Our injury list and potential injury to key players does not help. Also I can’t see Gawn, Petracca, Viney, May etc playing week in and week out. If they do, they will be stuffed come finals time. Do we have a group of players that have the hunger and confidence to play a dominant brand of footy that marks us as a top side? Do we have a group of players that have slipped or are not that good? Do we have a coach that has run out of ideas? Do we have a coach whose message to players has worn thin? We need to have early wins to instil confidence and belief. Winning papers over the cracks. Losing will result in media speculation, internal rumblings, pressure on the coach and players. One thing is for sure. We cannot afford more injuries or players on the long term injury list. Hopefully my early disappointment is an aberration.

On both Saturday and Sunday I found myself on a train packed with Swifties. Sunday in particular was intense. I was given a schooling on all things Tay and ended up with three *friendship bracelets. Not a Tay fan, but couldn’t expect to meet so many delightful girls in one (confined) space ever again. For the uninitiated, the idea is to make friendship bracelets that are Tay-related using coloured beads and beads with letters for song titles etc. The bracelets are then swapped for other bracelets. Of course I didn’t have any bracelets so I swapped a Clarrie key ring (Tay’s fave number is 13), two ribbons (one red and one blue) and a chupa chup. 😁

Rivers isn't an elite kick, over distance he is good but that 25 to 35m kick he misses it to much. To Jack Viney's credit, I thought yesterday was the best he has kicked the footy. Windsor hit the hard kicks, just missed some easy ones but you walk away happy with what you saw for his first hit out. The speed would take time to adjust, you hit a kick based on what level you last played at and it is a turn over at this level.

One thing that really annoyed me with yesterdays game was Steven may marking in defence and kicking it to Jake Bowey (who probably had a good 10 metres if not more of a tigers player) and kicked it high and over his head which bowey couldn’t mark it resulting in a boundary throw in (if I recall) May proceeded to lose his [censored] at bowey… which if I was Jake I’d be [censored] that I’m getting yelled at by another player who couldn’t kick low and to met whilst standing on my own. I know it’s little but may really annoys me with his attitude some times

If someone had given me the choice at the end of 2020 to have Brown and Tmac on our list for 4 more years but we would get one flag I would've taken it in a heartbeat.

Our biggest issue remains the skills forward of centre, so many turnovers in our forward half. We were away then a missed handball, kick and Richmond just went the other way clean and used the ball so much better than us. We did try to hit the dangerous kick inboard, which for most of last year we avoided that kick, just need the right players hitting that kick, we missed it to much and as soon as you miss that kick your opponent will score.

This belief for the last three years that Bbb and Tmac will suffice is based on sheer hope and not past reality. We are still lacking tall fwfs and God help us if Petty goes down again.

Bit tough on Brayshaw.

The main issue today was poor kicking and handball. We're clearly trying to play faster and use the corridor, but you get torched on the rebound when you turn it over, as we did today. Last year we lacked some dare, but had a fantastic all ground defence, which is why teams found it hard to move the ball against us. Think of Collingwood only having 39 inside 50s in the final and their struggle to move the ball forward on KB. In general play we dominated Carlton, but didn't close the door. We didn't get our tweaked game-plan right today and lost momentum. Richmond kicked it far better. They'll learn a lot from the hitout. Oliver and Salem the big pluses from the second game. Kynan Brown surprised me. He looks very promising.

Midfielders CBAs CBA % Notes Jack Viney 27 79.4% 6 clearances Christian Petracca 16 47.1% 2 clearances, 2 goals Tom Sparrow 25 73.5% No clearances Alex Neal-Bullen 22 64.7% No clearances Kysaiah Pickett 8 23.5% 5 clearances, 2 goals Bailey Laurie 2 5.9% No clearances Jack Billings 2 5.9% No clearances

Fullarton could be ready as early as next game v Carlton. He told me so.

It might have felt that way, but its not the case that virtually every ball was bombed in. If it was the case it would be reflected in the shots at goal data (also in the charts that show inside 50 entries and where goals were kicked from, which I've seen but couldn't find with a quick search). Given how infrequently we jagged pack marks in those games (or any games really, given how hard it is to take a pack mark these days) and factoring in goals from free kicks and pings from 40 -60 metres, if we bombed it long to a pack say 90% of the time, logic suggests the numbers would be something like: 70% of scores from general play (eg crumbing packs, stoppage goals, running shots etc) 30% from set shots (marks, usually one out or on the lead, and frees). In the blues finals loss we were aprox 50% from general play and set shots. In our loss to the Pies, a game that was high pressure and slippery, we were aprox 40% from general play and 60% from set shots. Shots at goal Team Shots G B T Acc. General Play Melbourne 15 4 9 33 26.7 Carlton 8 3 2 20 37.5 Set Position Melbourne 13 5 6 36 38.5 Carlton 13 8 4 52 61.5 Team Shots G B T Acc. General Play Melbourne 9 3 3 21 33.3 Collingwood 4 2 2 14 50.0 Set Position Melbourne 14 4 5 29 28.6 Collingwood 11 7 3 45 63.6 The bottom line is our method works. Which is why other teams employ it, just at the tigers did yesterday - which is no surprise since they are the originators of the when in doubt get territory strategy that, with pressure, is the foundation of the game circa 2024. It was our accuracy that failed us in the finals not our method.

Surely he hangs on to a screamer this season.

Sorry I should have highlighted the 'so many' part. Definitely expected some but I thought we had improved :(

I wasn't expecting so many alarm bells to be ringing on here after an average practice match...

We know McVee can do that job, moving him onto Bolton would have shown us nothing. Now Goody knows Howes is a long way off it and Howes know what he needs to do to play on a player like Bolton. Who by the way is one of the hardest match up going. This is what practice games are for. Your assuming we tried to lock them down

Was very impressed by Kynan Brown, Caleb Windsor, Billo, Kozzie could be anything and Jack with his neat disposal by foot through the middle. Lots to work on and spots up for grabs especially in the forward half.

May's got form with rubbish like that. Did on another occasion yesterday- I think aimed at tomo. On his kicking, I wish they made it a team rule that he can only kick it 60 metres plus. He misses a ridiculous number of 15 to 40 metre kicks under no pressure. Like that kick to Bowser.

I’ve flirted with teams without him but I still think Chandler will play based on no Pickett and no McAdam. We need a small who can mark and contest in the air. The big change should be ANB and Spargo back on the half forward flanks. If either of those 2 miss then Brown is a chance potentially even ahead of one of Laurie/Billings who seem to me to be fighting for one spot. It’s hard to justify 2 attacking forward/mid types who aren’t at the level of pressure/run we’ve become accustomed to. The big thing we need to adapt is fast run from the backline isn’t a signal for 3 or 4 forwards to get deep, the plan should be for hit up leads at half forward to punish interceptors and yesterday it looked like JVR, Fritsch, Chandler, Schache all wanted to be inside 50. Too many leading back in to the same spot and a bunch of kicks just lobbing to intercept markers. Nibbler and Spargo change that balance, but still a big concern that without Petty there’s no tall or medium who’s a natural hit up player.

100% agree. Which is why Windsor is on a glide path for round one selection. Though i hope his kicking is better than what we saw yesterday.

Spot on. I'd add that whilst there might be some variation as to where that kick is directed (eg pockets or hot spot), long and high kicks inside 50 is standard practice for all teams when kicking into a crowded forward line (which is not say team do it all the time of course). And the reason why is when kicking into a crowded forward line, a long, high kick to a pack at predetermined spot, is the percentage play. It's the risk reward calculation. Teams would have 20 plus years of analytics, and whilst i cant back this is up with the data (because frustratingly the AFL allow champion data to lock up key data), I'm very confident the data would show, that when factoring in: the attacking teams chances of scoring if they mark it or win the next possession (ie either when the ball hits the ground OR after a stoppage, if one happens) and the defensive teams chances of scoring if they mark it or win the next possession (ie on turnover).... .........the net scoring advantage is in favor of the attacking team. That data would change when the forward line is not crowded and the percentage play would be hitting up leading targets (unless as you note HBD, if that kick is under huge pressure, then the percentage play might still be the long high kick) But the problem is space inside 50 can only be created through fast ball movement from the back half (hence practicing the handball chains). But even then it is a one time deal. If a team moves it quickly, as we did yesterday at times, get it inside 50 to an open forward line, but fail to score and the oppo win the ball back, the go to play is put pressure on the outlet kick, set up a wall and try to win the ball back. If we do win it back, in that scenario, the defensive zone usually has had time to get set and players from both teams have flooded into the forward line area. So the kick back inside 50 is into a crowded forward line. And the percentage play is a long, high kick to our forward line. I think it was our second goal (perhaps the brown's first?) that we scored a goal from exactly this scenario.

nothing would surprise me about the baggers in 2024 like us in 2018, they were overdue to make the finals in 2023, and similarly got through to the prelim final they might drop back again but from all reports they had nothing like the injury concerns we had in 2019 preseason they are a lot more experienced than i think is credited and, like us in 2018, should have already been in finals before then

Yeah nah, they won't.

Nar I wasn't there!

So what do we think about Kynan Brown? Personally, I did not think he looked out of place at all. With another good showing against Carlton, do we think he’s a genuine opening round chance despite his very small frame?

Like: Clayton "The Kid" Oliver's left foot snap and goal in the 5th septher (not sure how to divide into sevenths...) Kayo worked Watching Melbourne play footy again 5 unanswered goals in the the 3rd septher Jake Bowey (No. 17) pinpoint accurate kicking Seeing lots of folks at Casey It's only a practice game Dislike Having less score at the end of the 4th septher than Rich%&$# At least one of Petracca's set shots at goal Having to write emails instead of going to the footy liquorice

Thanks to the few posters who provide rational analysis with minimal psychodrama. Appreciated.

How do we measure today if we don’t know what our intent was going in? Did we try and shut them down when they kicked ten straight or did we continue to work on our attacking game. When the pressure comes we know how we will Play. We know how Collingwood will play too. Like us. If we can play the way we were at the end of last year with ten percent more efficiency we win a flag. By working on skills and run now and early in the year, hopefully allowing the work we’ve done continuously for a few years on goal kicking and skill work to progress and inject some better ball users into important positions we should do alright. brown jr looked great. Get him in the gym and onto the park asap

No, we didn’t

How can you say that with the way he played on Curnow in the last quarter of the semi final? He was extraordinary, almost carried us to a win

Well, nothing to take away from that experience. It was a scratch match, and it was in every respect. Neither coach showed their hand, there was no discernible game plan or style from either, but what do you expect in February? For both sides it was the opportunity to see whether players could fit in different roles, who could do something outside their comfort zones and the chance for recent draftees to show their wares. Based on what we saw today, we can certainly expect Caleb Windsor to feature early in the season. The kid is lightening quick, but has football smarts, and with Hunter still injured, and unlikely to reach any fitness level before R1, then Caleb should get the wingers job. The other real standout was Kynan Brown, who has that inate ability to see gaps and just walk through them while others just fall about. We probably won't see him for a while, as he is so slight in build, but if today is anything to go by, then we may have a first class father-son. Pickett spending lots of time in the middle...a positive, but he won't be around in R1. ANB in the middle...no. Schache as ruck backup...no. Tomlinson as 3rd tall defender...no. Viney easily the best on the day, but please don't wear him out at this time of the year. At least we only used Petracca and Max sparingly. So we tried things, some worked, others didn't.

This time last year we were smashing teams, flying out of the gate like a bull to a red rag. Lets see if a change in approach yields different results later on in the year. Youngsters show alot of promise great hit out, no injuries, Premiership aren't won in February.

Comedy gold some of the reactions. Last year we looked untouchable after smashing Saints and Tigers in preseason games. This is a rather early start to the season, shattering we ain’t peaking in the middle of Feb.