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I am 71, have loved the game and especially the MFC, since I was about 5 and I am now at the stage, where I only want to go to games, to be with my kids and grandkids. I detest what I see happening to the game, which is run imo purely for money. People are ripped off at every turn by the AFL. AFL members are forced to pay $10.00 on top of membership for a seat at the G, for many games, instead of just being allowed to walk up. The fixturing is completely unfair and of its own, makes the whole competition a compromised sport. The umpiring is inconsistent. The MRO and Tribunal are a joke. The media because of accreditation are sycophants, too scared to report honestly. Everything is a deal, or fixed by a deal. Players now are unsure how to play the game and as an example, against Freo, I watched Melbourne players actually hesitate before going for the ball or tackling. Games being played on school nights, so families are denied the ability of attending. Blasting music so loud you can’t talk to people next to you. Excessive Politicising of the game. My love of the game has been severely diminished by its administrators, who couldn't run a BBQ without giving everyone food poisoning. I detest the direction of the game, that these people have taken it in and I am not referring to efforts to make it safer. Yes they have improved the viewing facilities, with some new grounds and refurbishments, but they have imo achieved little else. At least I have my memories of hard, tough,skillful footy, umpired reasonably, with penalties at Tribunals that were pretty consistent and people loving the game and actually living for it.

A syndicate consisting of several former Melbourne players have bought a racehorse and called it "Big Jimma" in honour of Jimmy Stynes. The horse will have its debut this Saturday in the first race on the card at Flemington. Go you good thing! In a nod to Jim's Irish heritage and Demon career, the jockey will wear the following colours.

The reputation bit is everything in Oz defamation. If he can prove that the allegations have lowered his reputation in the eyes of others - that some people now believe him to be racist - then a handsome settlement awaits. I've been involved in two defamation proceedings (on either side of the fence) and won them both. A sporting publication defamed me on their front page, saying I was an "unprofessional journalist who likes to hit the bottle of Scotch before he hits the keyboard"! It was complete BS - I drink bourbon, not scotch 😆

I don’t!!! He looked me in the eye (I was standing on a box) and swore black n blue (and red n blue) that he would NOT shave his damn head! Nek minnit… bald as a badger’s bum. He promised he’d wear a freaking headband. When I next see him his pelvis will be the least of his concerns. 😡

We are 43/16/1 since the start of 2021, with a premiership to show for it. I'm very proud of my club. Everyone, outside of some of our own supporters respect us. Right now is the best time to be a demon. I hope some on here don't miss what is currently happening.

Just sayin’

I nominate this as the BEST POST OF THE YEAR!!!!!

I obtain the pressure ratings, pressure points, and official time in forward half stats from the Herald Sun with a subscription. It's a manual transcription process so I just do that for DL. The unofficial time in forward half is calculated from a separate data set that I have access to. I haven't loaded these onto the site either, but I can more easily run these for all teams as it is at least in a database (which goes back to 2021). I'm looking at using this data set for other things, like clearances by zone.

Maybe the AFL can bring in a hair length rule, so they then know if it's a dangerous sling tackle.......

Swans Paddy McCartin ruled out for rest of season with ongoing concussion concerns SERIOUSLY Can someone Family, AFL, Swans just say ENOUGH .. NO MORE FOOTY EVER! PLEASE!🤯

Paddy’s last concussion was in Round 4 (who can forget that disturbing footage of him being helped to the bench) and seven weeks later he’s still showing symptoms of that concussion. For that reason alone, if he was my son he’d never set foot on a field again. Yes, he’s a grown man, but one never stops being a mother. And you know how the saying goes… “mother knows best.” 😉

I really like what I have seen in Verrall. A lot of young ruckman look awkward and uncoordinated, he seems to run and move naturally. He also has a genuine hard go at it. It could take 2 years, but worth the wait I reckon.

Will never forget the final couple of minutes of this match. It’s right up there with Tmac’s winning goal vs WCE 2017 and Maxy’s winner after the siren, Round 23 2021. I had bought concert tickets for this night months before and because of the stupid floating fixture didn’t realise there was a clash. I agonised over what to attend: my beloved Dees live at the ‘G in front of a big crowd or my all-time fave band (whom I’ve seen live several times but this tour was after a 13-year break). I was still undecided 24 hours beforehand. I finally decided to go to the match. With a minute and 40 to go, with us needing two goals to win, my DA BFF leaned in and said, “do you regret blowing off the concert?” I was already crying but told her that no, I’m not regretting it. Truth is, it was shaping up to be the biggest regret in my entire life, (dramatic much?). We all know what happened next. ❤️💙

Look, don't get me wrong. I'm as frustrated as the next MFC supporter and I want to experience a flag with my family at the MCG, but I also know, realistically, you need a whole heap of luck to go your way and they don't come around that often for a reason. I think what we've seen over the last fortnight on Demonland is a huge overraction. Chandler kicks his goal against Port, Grundy and Gus kick their goals, and we're suddenly 9-2, 2nd with a strong percentage. Instead, it went 11 points in the opposite direction and the sky is falling. And this has seen the return of a lot of posters who I would consider quite negative, and they are seemingly (if I'm being kind) incapable of knowing their history. And history is hugely important in setting realistic expectations. I'm not going to lay out all the Hawthorn stuff again with their 2015 premiership year being one that saw them finish 3rd and lose to everyone else in the top 5 around them, before winning the flag. And I'm not going to mention the premiers from last year who were 5-4 at Round 9. And we won't go into Richmond's 2017 flag year, where they were 5 zip and then lost 4 in a row by 76, 5, 2 and 3 to sit 5-4 at Round 9 (and later 7-5 at Round 13 + losing to St Kilda by 67 points in Round 16). None of this is to say we'll definitely be premiers this year, but knowing your history and your football makes all these strawmen cliches like we can't beat top opposition, we beat up on lesser opposition etc etc seem completely ridiculous. We're nothing like the Daniher era, because we have an elite tier of players (we didn't under Danners), we have a game style built for finals (under Danners, it was all offence and no defence). Of course, Demonland is a place to vent our frustrations, but if you have a [censored] take, you deserve to be called out for your [censored] take. And we've had a lot of [censored] takes around here recently.

The team have certainly popped the hype balloon that was building for this game given our last couple of performances. God forbid if we lose to a completely out of touch and undermanned Carlton this week. The Melbourne supporter drop off will be significant going into the pies game if we do. The club needs a rocking win this Friday night. A game of string four quarter football and none of this picking and choosing nonsense.

Tom Hickey has already been to the barber.

I just saw this on the Big Footy forum. They're still in trauma from last year.... "I asked for this game for a reason. My psychologist says for me to be any chance of making a full recovery I have to confront the cause of my trauma, specifically the evening of Saturday the 13th of August 2022. I remember it like it was yesterday. I was at Optus watching a dreadful derby. I couldn’t find a tv anywhere in the stadium to watch our game so I ended up watch it on a phone with a young Blues fan I met that night. We laughed, we cried, we drank and then when big H took that mark on the wing we celebrated - we were back in the finals after 9 years of purgatory - alas I crowed early and paid the price. What transpired over the next 50 odd seconds I have watched so many times - sometime I think I watched it actually hoping for a different outcome - they are now forever etched in my memory. This game was the most heartbreaking loss I can remember since, ironically, our 2000 qualifying final loss to Melbourne. That it held that title for a whole 8 days until the following weeks capitulation against the Pies captures the essence what being a Carlton supporter has become." The post from this point on goes on and on and on. Quite a read

We’ve seen it all before. Club in turmoil. Coach under pressure. Club President caught up in a tax scandal. Club board not seeing eye to eye with one board member resigning amid questions about whether he was pushed or did he jump? Unrest bordering on hysteria among the supporters. Team dropping from undefeated after four rounds to 13th after ten. Allegations of favoured treatment of players. Players out of form, forwards with the kicking yips, a bruising injury list with some facing the knife while another up before the AFL Tribunal. The media camped waiting on the club’s doorstep with those furry microphone things, pointed at every employee who comes out for some fresh air or a smoko, ready to pounce with some of the most inane questions imaginable. Yes, it’s crisis time at Carlton, the club designated by the AFL as its Friday night favourite playing the Melbourne Football Club at the home of football to kick off the first bye round on … checks, yep … Friday night. Right on cue, the AFL comes to the rescue. The MRO decided that Blues player Adam Cerra has a case to answer for a dangerous tackle on Swans’ ruckman Tom Hickey but for the first time this year, a dangerous tackle charge is thrown out by the AFL Tribunal. Instead of the requirement being on the alleged perpetrator to do something to avoid the collision of the head, it’s the victim who had the onus of using one of his arms to break the fall. Anyway, it was allegedly Hickey’s bouffant hair arrangement that actually banged the SCG turf and not the head he was rubbing in pain after the incident, so justice AFL style prevailed again. And in an ominous move for the Demons, the Blues’ legal team will make up their half forward line on Friday night at the MCG to ensure that the free kick count sits at 24 to 9 in their favour. Meanwhile, for the second year in a row, the Carlton skipper is expected to make a surprise appearance for his team in a game against Melbourne. This time it comes after making a miraculous recovery from having his ankle stepped on late in the game against the Swans. When someone steps on anything remotely near that part a Demon player’s anatomy it usually escalates rapidly from nothing to a 4 to 6 week injury. But the Blues’ medics are almost as good as their lawyers. Still, I’m not really paranoid and I don’t believe in conspiracy theories. In fact, there would have be something seriously wrong with Melbourne that even the world’s best team of doctors, lawyers and administrators can’t fix if it can’t overcome an ailing Carlton at the MCG on Friday night. After all, this is a team that embarked upon season 2023 boasting about being the fittest team in the competition, with great depth in every position on the football field, and focused on regaining lost prestige from last season’s finals stumble. They couldn’t possibly lose to that rabble. Surely? I’m confidently tipping them to win. By a point. THE GAME Melbourne v Carlton at the MCG Friday 2 June 2023 at 7.50pm HEAD TO HEAD Overall Melbourne 96 wins Carlton 117 wins Drawn 2 At the MCG Melbourne 55 wins Carlton 50 wins Past five meetings Melbourne 5 Carlton 0 wins The Coaches Goodwin 1 wins Voss 0 wins THE LAST TIME THEY MET Melbourne 11.13.79 defeated Carlton 10.14.74 at the MCG Round 22, 2022 The Blues looked to have had this game won as the clock wound down with less than two minutes to go. Then Jake Melksham* took a great contested mark in the middle of three Carlton defenders and his fourth goal for the match gave the team hope which translated into a win when Kozzie Pickett converted truly with seconds to go. * Melksham was given a two week suspension (reduced to one for an early plea) by the VFL Match Review Panel for a striking offence against a Werribee player in the fourth quarter of the match last Saturday. Nothing suspicious about the timing of the suspension of the hero of last year’s clash against the Blues, is there? THE TEAMS MELBOURNE B A. Tomlinson S. May J. McVee HB J. Bowey J. Lever C. Salem C T. Sparrow J. Viney E. Langdon HF K. Chandler Fritsch Pickett F C. Spargo Grundy Neal-Bullen FOLL M. Gawn C. Petracca L. Hunter I/C A. Brayshaw T. Rivers J. Smith J. van Rooyen SUB J. Harmes EMG B. Brown D. Turner T. Woewodin IN L. Hunter J. Smith A. Tomlinson OUT M. Hibberd (managed) J. Jordon (omitted) T. McDonald (ankle) CARLTON B A. Cincotta J. Weitering B. Kemp HB L. Young M. McGovern A. Saad C S. Walsh P. Cripps B. Acres HF J. Motlop C. Curnow J. Silvagni F Z. Fisher H. McKay M. Owies FOLL T. De Koning A. Cerra M. Kennedy I/C J. Boyd M. Cottrell S. Docherty L. O'Brien SUB P. Dow EMG E. Curnow L. Fogarty L. Plowman IN A. Cincotta P. Dow Z. Fisher L. O'Brien J. Silvagni L. Young OUT C. Durdin (knee) E. Curnow (omitted) G. Hewett (concussion) O. Hollands (collarbone) N. Newman ((hamstring) M. Pittonet (hand) Injury List: Round 12 Clayton Oliver - Hamstring | 1 Week Luke Dunstan - Knee | 1 - 2 Weeks Harry Petty - Foot | 2 - 3 Weeks Kye Turner - Groin | 3 - 4 Weeks Will Verrall - Pelvis | 3 - 4 Weeks

Absolutely correct!! I was chatting with another Demons supporter at a training session, who was a boxing coach. He told me McCartin would never be allowed into the ring again if he was a boxer. The rules in Victoria for KO, TKO or concussion are a mandatory 30 days away from competition or even training. Next KO etc is 60 days, next 90 days. 4 KO's etc is a 12 month suspension. For a sport which is so brutal, it is laughable that AFL protocols provide less protection, and less consequence for subsequent concussions to the player. Just give it away Paddy. Speak with John Barnes and find out what you are doing to yourself.

Given that the Match Review Officer and Match Review Panel frequently frustrate and bewilder many of us, and that this tends to pollute other threads, I felt that 'the chaps' deserved their own home thread on Demonland. Surely there will be no lack of material.

Also players who dive onto a pack often grab players who don't have the ball. Why not pay holding the man?

Ollie looks 16 in this video, but about 38 playing for Casey.

i'd love to get the carpet cleaning contract at afl house. would keep me gainfully employed for decades

The MRO & MRP can go and get stuffed.

Verrall showed plenty in preseason, he’ll still need time but he has the talent if they can fix his core for good and get him out there. Obviously a worry that they nursed him through all summer and then he broke down pretty much immediately. Sestan started the VFL season far better than I imagined given his background. If Casey get back in form I’m expecting a break out game soon. Pretty keen to see how much he can improve after a full preseason.

not wait for 8 months for Clarko to almost have a breakdown and then say ‘nothing to see here’ the next week Agree the Hawks are primarily in the wrong but this sat in the AFL’s too hard basket while good people suffered

Where did you pull those figures from? We scored 126 against West Coast, 139 against North and 103 against Hawthorn. That's 33% of our total of 1,110. So that's 33% of our score from 27% of our games. It's higher than 27%, but not by that much. I posted this elsewhere but we've scored 115 vs the Dogs (highest score they've conceded all year), 82 against Brisbane in Brisbane, 134 against Sydney with its full backline, 76 against Port, in Adelaide, in the rain, 96 against Richmond, and 90 against GC. Yes, we've scored well against the bottom 3 sides, but we've also scored well against the better sides we've played.

That’s a good take. I sat next to an older gentlemen in what would be the old smoker’s stand on the weekend. I was lamenting our mistakes. He turned to me, and politely remarked “if you are expecting perfection, you haven’t been following Melbourne long enough” - it put things into perspective. He proceeded to tell me how he’d seen a host of premierships, before having to wait 57 years for another. We are a good side, but even good sides have ups and downs. Look at the Cats right now. I think the GF win being played away from the MCG makes us all restless. We’d all love a repeat of 21 in front of our fans. That yearning is leading to irrational responses from fans atm. We are in the top 4 at present. The run home is fabourable. We now have finals experience. We may just do it a different way, which is what Richmond and Hawthorn did. Many media pundits still rate us highly. They can see we are not far off and if it all clicks, we are a machine that’s hard to stop. Let it unfold

Is it possibly that swans are keeping him employed for monitoring and medical treatment rather than letting him retire and leaving him to care for himself? Cannot see him coming back from this.

Journalistic integrity and the ABC... Let me know how you go!

We are a 43-1-16 team sice Round 1 2021, including a premiership. Anyone feel better now?

Good thing it’s an even year.

They only weren’t prepared to go on THIS record - a record they perceived to be biased. They wanted to go to the Arbitration in Sport, and it looks like they want to go to the Human Rights Commission. They perceive the AFL process to be flawed. The AFL is the same people who run the Tribunal. It’s fair to say that’s not a legal process most agree with.

In my view, old fashioned probably, I think we need to have in the back paid, and if you fail to get rid of the ball correctly incorrect handball, and if there are 2 players from one side into there opponent on the ground, in the back, The game will open up and we will not have a rugby scrum rolling around the ground. Now I feel better n better

The AFL has just issued this official press release regarding their involvement in the Hawthorn affair.

I have put together an estimate of the current MFC salary cap position. As player salaries are not public, I have made best estimates on what each player contract value is. (I know the dollars will not be correct for specific players and I am not going to argue with anyone about these amounts, but it is the total amount and conclusion that matters.) My conclusion is that we are almost certainly, in effect, running above the salary cap this season and probably will be effectively running above the cap next season. This is permitted (so I am not saying we are likely to get in trouble here) and would be achieved by backloading some of our bigger contracts into future years. For this reason, and because we will still want to retain Chandler and D Turner (and probably Jordon and Woewodin) and because we will need to fill our list spots, I cannot see us being a big player in the trade or free agent markets this year. We may also look to offload some players, including Harmes, TMac, Brown or Tomlinson to free up salary over the next trade period, albeit I am not sure we will be able to do this easily without paying a portion of their remaining salaries. At the moment we have 6 uncontracted players on the senior list, which will need to be filled by draftees, current players or players on other AFL lists. I don’t believe there has been clarity on the level salary cap beyond next year, but I think we can assume it will go up by around 10%. Player Contract 2023 2024 2025 2026 2027 2028 2029 2030 Oliver 2030 $900K $900K $900K $900K $900K $900K $900K $900K Petracca 2029 $900K $900K $900K $900K $900K $900K $900K n/a May 2025 $800K $800K $800K n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a Gawn 2025 $800K $800K $800K n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a Brayshaw 2028 $700K $700K $700K $700K $700K $700K n/a n/a Grundy 2027 $700K $700K $700K $700K $700K n/a n/a n/a Fritsch 2026 $700K $700K $700K $700K n/a n/a n/a n/a Viney 2025 $700K $700K $700K n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a Salem 2026 $650K $650K $650K $650K n/a n/a n/a n/a Lever 2024 $650K $650K n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a Brown 2024 $600K $600K n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a Neal Bullen 2026 $500K $500K $500K $500K n/a n/a n/a n/a Langdon 2024 $500K $500K n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a Harmes 2024 $500K $500K n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a Spargo 2025 $400K $400K $400K n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a Petty 2025 $400K $400K $400K n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a Tomlinson 2024 $400K $400K n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a Sparrow 2024 $400K $400K n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a McDonald 2024 $400K $400K n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a Hunter 2024 $400K $400K n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a Pickett 2027 $350K $700K $700K $700K $700K n/a n/a n/a Rivers 2027 $350K $450K $450K $450K $450K n/a n/a n/a Bowey 2024 $350K $350K n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a Van Rooyen 2025 $220K $400K $400K n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a McVee 2024 $200K $350K n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a J Smith 2024 $200K $200K n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a Schache 2024 $200K $200K n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a Jordan 2023 $200K n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a Howes 2025 $150K $300K $300K n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a Laurie 2024 $150K $200K n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a Melksham 2023 $150K n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a Hibberd 2023 $150K n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a Dunstan 2023 $150K n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a Chandler 2023 $150K n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a Woewodin 2023 $120K n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a Jefferson 2024 $100K $120K n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a Adams 2024 $100K $120K n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a Karris-White 2023 $80K n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a AMW 2023 $80K n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a Verrall 2023 $80K $100K n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a K Turner 2023 $80K n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a D Turner 2023 $80K n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a D Smith 2023 $80K n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a Sestan 2023 $80K $100K n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a Total Salary $15,850K $15,590K $10,000K $6,200K $4,350K $2,500K $1,800K $900K Salary Cap $14,700K Difference $1,150K Future Owed $42,490K

An interesting list of owners that's for sure including one of my favorites "Balls" and a former president who took over when Jim was no longer able to continue IIRC. Good luck to them hopefully they get to the winners room soon.

I really really feel this thread is been hijacked, and getting personal. The antagonising over peoples opinions, and the 'holding' athletes and coaches to account, could really happen in other threads. Like some of the other posters who noted it recently- this thread has been vitriol free for essentially 3 years... Please, shift it elsewhere.

From MFC website.....The pair, who will remain on the rookie list for the 2024 season, have impressed with their attitude and commitment during their first year in the red and blue.

Cripps will be fired up for this game after he was falsely accused on not staying in the team hotel in Sydney. Not to mention the self-inflicted grief being poured on his club and the questioning of his captaincy. Hopefully, someone 'minds' him and runs him ragged to test that injured ankle. Cerra is a big win for them. With all their midfield outs he will return to play there which is where he plays his best. Question is will our midfield be switched on or will our ruck dominance be 'wasted'? Even with all their outs they will do some damage. MFCSS is preparing me for an upset...

You have obviously never heard or seen the Doobie Brothers, who are the greatest band ever. Steely Dan the best studio band ever. Getting back to the thread, I would love a smashing of Carlton and see the in fighting start in earnest.

For the players I think there is more evidence that achieving the ultimate success has positive effects. Geelong and Richmond broke through and the all round confidence and mentality went to a new level. Then you look at us, it is still only 2 and a half years ago when we were hell bent on making finals and getting that experience into our list, top 4 finishes were in another stratosphere. We break through and suddenly wins are more common than not, we replicate a 9 win start in 21 and better it in 22 to finish 2nd and now this year despite some doubts are still a shot at that sweet top 4 again. Sure you do have a bigger target painted on your back but the way we've handled it and the leaps and bounds this list has come are something everyone should be so proud of. As supporters though, I think there is a good point. We're all in unchartered territory and at times probably have no idea how to act. I thank the level headed people on this forum as even when some of us are tearing our hair out we are looking to you guys for that ray of sunlight in it all. It's very tough and everyone would have a different take on it. Some want to bank the wins early and get really hurt with a loss because they want to setup the season as best as possible, some realise the marathon nature of a season and aren't as fazed, and some might have another view altogether. Every now and then someone will come on here and mentions that it is unfamiliar territory but to just enjoy the ride as much as possible because it will end someday. You don’t want to be down the bottom again and feeling like you didn’t enjoy those times enough, I find these to be really helpful reminders. But I don’t believe this thread was meant to be about supporters so apologies.

Doesn't mean that there is a lot of fix. People who have personally never been subjected to racism generally underplay it's significance. Those who have been on the pointy end of racism know where the real lynch mobs are.

There should be a separate thread about Cerra/MRO decisions. Rather than hijack the pregame thread.

If we are banking on Cerra being suspended for this game, we are nowhere near contending this year. Let’s just get it done. that said, the inconsistency from the Tribunal is appalling

I don't know that this latest development proves anything one way or the other apart from the AFL being very keen on sweeping potentially embarrassing matters under the rug and protecting their brand. Suspect we haven't heard the last of this and there is still more to be played out.

The word "corrupt" is used a lot. I don't believe the system is corrupt - It is just totally brocken. [censored] is a far more appropriate description ... but I'm not allowed to use that word. I'm not just talking reports and the MRO, it's also the umpiring and inconsistency in paying free kicks within games. I certainly no longer have a clue as to what's going on - I don't think I'm alone. During the JVR stupidity, I quoted Jordan Lewis' comments on 360. I believe they are still the best summary of the current [censored] up in our game , so I'll restate them - " The AFL is making up the rules as they go"

As a lawyer, if I do any more criminal matters, my clients will be dressed in Carlton jumpers, because then you clearly can’t be guilty. Seriously, I said in another post that this guy simply makes it up. Pin arms, don’t pin arms, injury, no injury, hit head, don’t hit head, sling, don’t sling, drive into ground, don’t drive into ground, duty of care, no duty of care, possibility of injury, reasonable player, no reasonable player, aggressive action, not aggressive action and tonight’s new reason, long hair of the victim makes it look worse than it is. How can you not ridicule this system and the people running it.