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BB had surgery to clean up a knee injury he carried last season. Not likely to resume full training until after Xmas. Grundy set to complete full preseason.

After a point against, he kicks out to the left to the pack and when going forward, he bombs it in to the left pocket boundary.

West Coast took Jack Williams as Kennedy’s long term replacement, so can’t see them or us taking Jefferson. On another note and in keeping with our forwards. I had to drop into the Claremont football Club today, JVR was in the gym doing some conditioning, they started introducing him to me. I said mate lifelong Demon, you don’t need to tell me who this bloke is. Shook his hand and wished him luck for the season ahead.

In his podcast Twomey with Nat Edwards, he said Jefferson hasn't been invited to the first night of the draft so is unlikely to go in the first dozen. He also mentioned it is unlikely there will be swaps involving top 10 or even first round picks.

Down at Gosch's, training cart has turned up. Heath having some one on one kicking with Stinear. Windy, cold, minimal rain.

I can't read the whole article but at the risk of taking the wrong interpretation of it, I don't see how that would stop the same thing happening. 5 people would know who got the votes for that game. 5 people who could tip off mates to make the same bets Pell's did. At least with the umpires there are only 3 people involved who have some level of ethics to uphold, albeit there has now been a breach. A panel of experts would have almost no level of ethics to uphold no bond to secrecy and probably less trustworthy. More risk with no gain with Thomas's suggestion. Just stop game by game Brownlow betting. Keep it to the winner/placings. Better still get rid of the betting altogether!

Training finished with some goal kicking. Two squads in competition, Happiness the overriding emotion. Go Dees.

Wouldn't be assuming we get much output from BBB going forward - Goodwin has said more than once he will have ongoing knee issues to manage for the remainder of his playing days I suspect this isn't a fix but part of the ongoing maintenance regime My sense is that if we are still reliant on him being our main tall target inside F50 in 2023 we have not improved - I remain hopeful that one of the following can happen - JVR has a massive summer and performs at the highest level consistently - H Petty is used as a tall forward - Either Grundy or Gawn (or both) can have a meaningful impact in the F50 - J Smith trains as a forward over summer, stays fit and surprises everyone with 40+ goals (yes, I know this one is a bit out there 😀)

Cal and Kevin's mock draft 1. Gws - Aaron Cadman 2. Bris - Will Ashcroft (f/s) 3. Nth - George Wardlaw 4. Nth - Harry Sheezel 5. Ess - Elijah Tsatas 6. GC - Reuben Ginbey 7. Haw - Mattaes Phillipou 8. Gee - Bailey Humphrey 9. WC - Jhye Clark 10. Stk - Cam McKenzie 11. Car - Elijah Hewitt 12. WB - Jedd Busslinger 13. WC - Matthew Jefferson 14. Mel - Ed Allan 15. Syd - Olli Hollands 16. Gws - Lewis Hayes 17. Bri - Jaspa Fletcher (f/s) 18. Coll - Oli Hotton 19. Syd - Harry Barnett 20. Gws - Jacob Konstanty 21. Gws - Lachie Cowan 22. WC - Jakob Ryan 23. Gws - Harry Rowston (Academy) 24. WB - Brayden George 25. Ess - Josh Weddle 26. Ess - Alwyn Davey (f/s) 27. Nth - Coby Burgiel 28. Haw - Henry Hustwaite 29. Adel - Max Michaelanny (f/s) 30. Coll - Max Gruzewski

The top two things for me that a KPD should have as part of their game is contested marking and goal kicking. After watching the two highlights packages of both Cadman and Jefferson several times IMO Jefferson has Cadman covered in both those areas. I’m then asking myself why is Cadman rated so far ahead of Jefferson phantom drafts. Cadman kicked 34 in 12 games this year which is a great achievement, Jefferson only played the six games (I’m guessing he was injured) for 14 goals. Cadman is more imposing at under 18’s at 88kg, 12kg’s heavier than Jefferson. Aaron Cadman National Championships, 2022 Victoria Country (National Talent Database) National Talent Database Player 4Games Played 2Best Player 10Total Goals VICTORIA COUNTRY U18 BOYS GP BP G TOTAL 4 2 10 NAB AFL National Championships 4 2 10 VS Victoria Metro U18 BoysRound 7, 22 Sep 2022 1 1 3 VS Western Australia U18 BoysRound 5, 17 Jul 2022 1 1 3 VS Allies BoysRound 3, 03 Jul 2022 1 - 2 VS South Australia U18 BoysRound 2, 26 Jun 2022 1 - 2 Mathew Jefferson : National Championships, 2022 Victoria Metro (National Talent Database) National Talent Database Player 4Games Played 3Best Player 14Total Goals VICTORIA METRO U18 BOYS GP BP G TOTAL 4 3 14 NAB AFL National Championships 4 3 14 VS Victoria Country U18 BoysRound 7, 22 Sep 2022 1 1 2 VS South Australia U18 BoysRound 4, 17 Jul 2022 1 - 3 VS Western Australia U18 BoysRound 3, 02 Jul 2022 1 1 7 VS Allies BoysRound 2, 25 Jun 2022 1 1 2 Aaron Cadman : NAB League, 2022 Greater Western Victoria Rebels (NAB League) NAB League 12Games Played 8Best Player 34Total Goals GREATER WESTERN VICTORIA REBELS BOYS GP BP G TOTAL 12 8 34 NAB League Boys 12 8 34 VS Northern Knights BoysFinals Round 1, 27 Aug 2022 1 1 2 VS Geelong Falcons BoysRound 16, 21 Aug 2022 1 1 4 VS Gippsland Power BoysRound 15, 07 Aug 2022 1 1 3 VS Eastern Ranges BoysRound 14, 30 Jul 2022 1 - 2 VS Western Jets BoysRound 13, 23 Jul 2022 1 1 5 VS Oakleigh Chargers BoysRound 10, 18 Jun 2022 1 1 4 VS Dandenong Stingrays BoysRound 9, 04 Jun 2022 1 - 1 VS Western Jets BoysRound 8, 28 May 2022 1 1 5 VS Murray Bushrangers BoysRound 5, 01 May 2022 1 1 1 VS Sydney Swans (NAB League) BoysRound 4, 24 Apr 2022 1 - 3 VS Geelong Falcons BoysRound 3, 14 Apr 2022 1 - 0 VS Bendigo Pioneers BoysRound 1, 02 Apr 2022 1 1 4 Mathew Jefferson : NAB League, 2022 Oakleigh Chargers (NAB League) NAB League Player 6Games Played 4Best Player 14Total Goals OAKLEIGH CHARGERS BOYS GP BP G TOTAL 6 4 14 NAB League Boys 6 4 14 VS Bendigo Pioneers BoysFinals Round 1, 28 Aug 2022 1 - 3 VS Sandringham Dragons BoysRound 16, 20 Aug 2022 1 1 4 VS Calder Cannons BoysRound 4, 23 Apr 2022 1 1 3 VS Eastern Ranges BoysRound 3, 16 Apr 2022 1 1 0 VS Northern Knights BoysRound 2, 10 Apr 2022 1 1 3 VS Sandringham Dragons BoysRound 1, 03 Apr 2022 1 - 1 I’m thinking the National Championship is the biggest stage these kids have played on so their respective highlights for these games should be regarded higher than their TAC games. I would not be disappointed if we selected Jefferson with our first pick.

i trained with weddle last night, hes quick and has good size but he needs to get stronger through his arms and probably legs to become more explosive, we were in runners on a soggy track due to cricket season and it was a genuine slip and slide but he didn't seem to be hitting the deck as often as others were, didnt get to see any of his arial/contested work or much of his tight contested stuff but his general kicking skill and composure with ball in hand was clear

I’d like to see Petty remain in the back half of the ground. Our backline is our strength. If it’s not broken, don’t stuff around with it. Rather see (hope) that JVR is part of the solution for the forward line along with a well ‘player managed’ BBB. …..and better delivery / connectivity coming from / with the mids

“Every AFL draft is a high-stakes game of educated guessing and projection, mixed in with various risks and rewards. With that in mind, Brayden George is this year’s most-coveted mystery box. Scouts know he’s a powerful athlete, a leader, highly skilled, disciplined, a good character and already compare him to big-name stars Jordan De Goey and Christian Petracca. What is there not to like?” The ultimate risk v reward prospect: Why Brayden George has AFL recruiters salivating

How the deed was done/discovered: "...one betting agency was alerted to a punter or punters placing bets on players’ votes in different matches and winning every time...By the end of the count, a red flag was beside his name...The league...then cross-checked the betting patterns with other betting partners and found the same individual/s placing similar bets. Subsequent cross-checking on the games themselves then reportedly showed Pell as the one constant. The Age reported bets ranged in size, all the way up to several thousand dollars". brownlow-medal-betting-scandal Pell's gambling 'mates' seem very naive in how betting agencies track recurring/unusual betting patterns and not very good at covering their tracks. Pell was stupid to give them the info. If it was that simple or just once he could plead ignorance. But going on the above it was for 'different matches' and if he got a share of the winnings he is in for a very torrid time.

FMD. Probably George's son.

A key defender got a vote. Probably what touched off the investigation.

More details have emerged about this disturbing story. It appears that the umpire tried to flee police by running backwards and didn't stop until the copper yelled "Stand!".

An interview with our coach. Mick is his typical composed self and plays the straight bat as usual, but some interesting bits and pieces here: https://www.abc.net.au/radio/programs/the-w-with-sharni-and-sam/episode-thirteen-mick-stinear/101652428 Interview starts 20:30 Topics include: - Tackling the week off - Mick's views on finals home ground advantage & North's performance vs. Richmond - Demon spirit (mentioned 1,000 times haha) - Harris's recruitment and integration into the team - GF location, the current state of the league - Is this Daisy's last season?

The disrespect shown to AFLW members by the AFL (and some clubs, not Melbourne) has been pretty bad of late. Like, there have definitely been many, many stuff-ups and ridiculous decisions over the seven years of this league, but for the most part (despite plenty of valid venting!), paid-up fans have been willing to put up with it and be patient, in the view that these are teething problems, etc., etc., and that the most important thing is to expose new audiences even if that means alienating the core. But at this point, I agree, there's almost a sense of resignation about the lack of vision. It's not even about people's individual ability to go to games, it's about decisions being made that clearly hold back the competition and the complete lack of transparency and communication about those decisions. Excuses are wearing thin. No one's asking for miracles (you know, like a season where everyone plays each other). Just the most basic planning. If they don't have a concrete policy that sets a reasonable standard for finals venues by next season, and the planning to back that up, well, we'll know where we really stand. Personally, I quite like the Grand Final going to the higher ranked team. I think it's fair and good for the game nationally. BUT the policy should be that if a club/league can't provide an adequate venue in their own city, then the club forfeits the right and Princes(s) Park is secured in advance as the back-up. Why they didn't have such a decision in place prior to or during this season given the many obvious clashes because of the change of timing, is just so baffling. Fans have been raising this potential problem since the timing change was announced, then every week as Brisbane sat atop the ladder, with zero response.

I listened to a little of that and got the impression Jefferson wasn't coming as he was unlikely to be in the first dozen selected (the criteria for an invite as guessed by the AFL). Further Twomey pretty much confirmed no one had any idea what we were doing with pick 14 and many just presumed we'd go for a tall forward because Jackson left.

...In the great tradition of demonland you'll know quickly if you have ;-)

Using the real estate analogy, it's not how he starts but how he finishes. So long as he comes good for the finals (as in 2021) we will be OK. If not, then we have the opportunity to find and develop alternatives who are likely to be need for 2024.

Thanks for that. I listened up to our pick #13. 'Shifter' had Jefferson going to WCE in the pick before ours to replace Kennedy. Toomey then said he would have taken Jefferson if on the board but will go for Allen.

Exactly. You don't get jail time in Oz for corruption ( maybe 1 in 500 cases). Business or gaming. Crown ex- Directors - No charge , etc. But I can't see the Umpire remaining on the list at the AFL under any circumstances. Gil - " wer'e outraged about this, heads must roll, etc , etc..." What will be fascinating will be the deathly silence of all those in the betting trough - looking at you SEN , Nathan Brown, etc. Gerard will have something to ponitifcate about from on high, but will still be taking his weekly cheque form Sportsbetting sponsoors through SEN.

Two Pells don't make a right!

Big penalty for being naive and stupid. As always with the AFL the penalty is not for the misdeed but is for being caught. Lord knows how many other not-above-board betting on AFL games/events people get away with because they are smart enough to camouflage their misdeeds and not get caught.

"Bet with jailmates"

It is not just the umpire's fault - blame the gambling industry. That is where the problem lies. It's insideous reach into all sport culture is appalling. For a sport that claims to be a family one, the way that the AFL have danced with the devil is disgraceful.

Coaches are in on it too. 🤔🤔😎

I was at Princes Park when WA played Vic Metro and Elijah Hewett looked a ready made AFL player to me - far more than any other player on the ground that day with the exception of Will Ashcroft. I’d like to know what he’s done wrong since that game that caused him to slide to a projected top 20 pick.

The Herald-Sun has named the umpire as Michael Pell, thus muddying the Pell surname. I'm surprised his name wasn't withheld so that a betting market could be framed as to his identity.

They fell victim to one of the classic blunders. The first, of course, is never get into a land war in Asia. The other is, never win against a betting agency.

"Awright boys, time for the votes. Whaddya reckon?" (silence) "Matt? Leigh?" "E. Yeo 3 votes." "Dean, the Eagles weren't even playing. And you weren't on the ground. How did you get in here? The door's supposed to be locked! Go on, [censored] off. Matt, who do you think played well?" "I dunno. Most of the game was down the other end from me." "Leigh, what about you?" "I dunno. They players all look the same to me. What do you reckon?" "I dunno either. It moves so fast, I dunno what's going on most of the time." (silence) "Well, we can't sit here all night. What are we gunna do?" "We could look at the stats sheet." "Great idea ... lemme see ... Tom Mitchell 40 possies! Well that's your 3 right there." "Did Cripps play?" "Nah, he played last night ... good idea, but ... hey, it says here someone kicked 6 goals." "A mid?" "No, a ... um ... what's the word? Four ... fore ... foreman ..." "So not a mid?" "You're right. One vote only." "Who played on Mitchell?" "Christ. Was it ... Pendlebury?" "I dunno. Come on, give him the 2 and let's get out of here." "S. Pendlebury 2 votes. Jeez, that was easier than I thought. Crack open the beers."

Either way, during the season we need to find out over several games if Petty can play forward and Turner can hold down a key back position. The beauty being this can happen in the same games. Let's not wait until the last 5 minutes of the season again.

Five (or even fifty five) so called hand picked experts will still not get it right. Only the umpires are at the "coal face" and can know who is trying hard and influencing the game. From over then fence who can tell? And in any event, where can the AFL find 45 so called experts every week. Each one vulnerable to outside influences. Cannot, should not ever happen. The only real solution is to ban or restrict betting on the Brownlow. I know that illegal betting will go on but it then becomes a police issue as having legal betting doesn't seem to stop the crooks. Too much betting on footy. Can only corrupt the game.

Or Josh Schache* surprises everyone and becomes a real KPF option. *Is that spelled correctly or in the great tradition of Demonland, have I stuffed up a player's surname completely?

Summary anyone.. please.

Based on those 'selections' our #37 nominally goes out to #42. Lions might have to use all their #30+ picks to get Ashcroft. So our pick might come back in a bit. Sub #40 is not where JT likes to draft from... Those selections suggest the Lions will be desperately short of points. Will have to dip into 2023/swap some 2023 picks for 2022

@Bombay Airconditioning Jefferson missed games at NAB level due to APS commitments with Wesley College. The stats I could find shows he kicked 25 goals in 6 games at that level.

I think we both know the answer rjay.

Personally I would like to see the chain of command in the AFL, who is responsible for the process and how such a failure of this magnitude could occur. There are going to be a lot of people scurrying around the AFL May also be unexpected departures, everyone needs to be scrutinised top to bottom. AFL Integrity has been questioned regarding legitimacy of the Draw how Cripps was allowed to win the appeal and now the Brownlow Medal and that is just off the top of the head. AFL is a shambles.!!!

Gamble responsibly.

I though of calling the Downlow after Jab Watson won it —— maybe now should be the DOWNLOWER.

Gambling is a big issue...I remember my father always saying it would come back to haunt the AFL & he was right. The problem is there are way too many vested interests here to get a real debate on the issue. 'Bite the hand that feeds'...will be interesting to hear the SEN & FOX takes in particular. Will they put gambling under the microscope or will the focus be on the umpire? Will they narrow the issue down rather than explore the wider ramifications?

Maybe the AFL will charter Magic 🪄 Carpets to transport the fans - the occult reason for the naming of the round

This is the real crux of the matter. Gaming Brownlow betting is one thing, but there’s been serious question marks on the AFL umpiring department professionalism and integrity growing every year now. We always get told they’re mistakes, or vague justifications of howlers, or blaming technology, it’s too hard to get umpires we can’t make it full time and pay them a good salary, having part timers is fine, nothing to see here. But if an umpire will risk 10 years jail for a few specific Brownlow bets, why not throw a few 50/50 decisions in a game, why not help an underdog stay under the line? Why not miss a few holding the ball decisions? I’m no conspiracy theorist, I think the majority of the time umpires are doing a good job and mistakes are genuine accidents. It’s a slippery slope though, and the veneer of integrity that the AFL relies on is quickly coming off, the lack of true umpire accountability, professionalism and an integrity unit with integrity and teeth means when something like this is exposed, the whole thing comes into question.

That’s massive, awesome effort. Next year will be my 19th consecutive. What gets me is when the club has promotions for members to renew their membership “now” to enter a certain draw or for new members to be entered into something else, yet those on auto renew aren’t included. I don’t expect to ever win but it’s the principal.

Pm's are a great feature. You can abuse other posters with lower odds of getting banned.