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Have just got back from a social event where I got talking to a very well known footy journalist. He didn’t give much away, other than Jackson is gone, providing Freo can find two first rounders. He believes Grundy will be at Melbourne next year, for a first round pick and a significant amount of his wage picked up by the Pies - said that Goody really rates Grundy and we’ll have the best ruck combination for the next 4-5 years. He also said that they’ll work to get Kozzy signed up as a priority, but there’s no truth in the rumours that he wants to go to an SA club: he has no allegiance in SA - probably the only place he would move to would be country WA, if they had a team! Apparently v happy with the set up at Melbourne, so should be reasonably straightforward. He thought that the main reasons for the Dees falling short this year were injuries and perhaps the mental fatigue of trying to win a B2B. On a more general note, he thought that this years trade period will be epic, with lots of names being thrown up for movement. Nothing earth-shattering in what he said, but just thought I’d share it with my fellow Dees!

Since our ejection on Friday night I've been reflecting on our season and where it might have gone wrong. Or in particular, why this year never quite felt right. All teams have question marks on whether they have what it takes to get to the top. Supporters and the media focus largely on whether the playing group is talented enough, whether the coaching/gameplan can succeed and whether the off field administration is enabling success. These are no doubt important. For us though, none of these 3 elements have changed materially from last year. We know the team is good enough, we know the coaching group was good enough (notwithstanding tactics need to change) and we are stable off field. What has changed and I think why I felt 'uncomfortable' with a lot of the seasons successes - is the culture. This is what stitched it all together last year and in this sport in particular, with the largest ground and freeform positioning, is a crucial element to executing a defensive-minded gameplan. Bit by bit, week by week, I think our leaders (players and coaches) have let it slip, with a trail of markers going back to the end of last year: - Gawn declaring at our premiership celebration that we'd salute in 2022 - I'm sure this was designed to be bold, but it imbued from the start a disrespect to our opposition and to some degree, embedded some underlying complacency - the Carlton pre season game, conceding 8 50m penalties and clearly lacking some discipline and respect for our opponents and the umpires - consistent selection of players who were underdone, out of form or blatantly injured, reducing accountability, reducing trust in the FD to be impartial, and denying our youth and second stringers of chances to grow. Not very selfless or trusting from our FD decision makers. - May/Melksham incident, notable not for it's drunkenness or timing but for what was said by May to Melksham, implying a clique of 'premiership heroes' to the exclusion of all others, and again a sense of entitlement stemming from achieving success last year - coaching refusal to change structure or gameplan in the face of pretty compelling evidence that it was being dismantled - clear on field selfishness in front of goals - Fritsch the poster boy but it arguably most damaging from players like Trac who repeatedly attempts to kick goals with 3 oppo players on top of him rather than using his gifts to release someone to space as he did more often last year - clear drop off in accountability to team defense standards in guarding space appropriately or sitting at the defensive side of a contest. The selflessness that was such a hallmark is now difficult to see in this regard. - clear drop off in willingness to work hard at the little things off the ball - they spoke about being the best teammates they could be last year. Being 3rd last in pressure implies they weren't very good teammates to each other this year at all. - Continued poor discipline in both our finals, conceding 50m penalties to Sydney at crucial times and again against Brisbane, with the leadership group repeatedly at fault and a litany of downfield free kicks as we repeatedly dumped players after kicking -players openly arguing, pointing and expressing frustration with each other on field, including the leaders -Langdons poorly worded 'duck dinner' comment - I'm sure not wholly intended to be disrespectful but again a marker of an underlying arrogance in the teams evaluation of its opponents -Consistently going ahead early in all our losses - indicating again our pure footy ability was clearly good enough - only to be overrun. I think fitness wasn't the issue. I think it was the teams mindset to run for each other, trust their teammate to win a contest and a collective belief in the system and team defense. -Gawn spoke about last year how their cultural change started with the removal of the 'little quips' around the club - not bringing each other down for fun. I'm sure I'm not alone in noticing that from about a 1/3 of the way through the year, the Gus and Gawny episodes took a bit of a turn...the quips of teammates returned in subtle doses in exchange for a laugh. By the last few episodes of the year I no longer enjoyed the show - arrogant, backslapping banter often at the expense of their guest or the team's lesser lights. - Gawn has a guest spot on Nova's breakfast show once a week. The hosts questioned Max a number of times about our form during the 2nd half of the year. It's a breakfast show and I don't expect it to be serious, but near the end of the year Max kept referring to our ladder position as his defense. "Well, we're still second so we must be doing something right". There was a clear denial of the trends within our game (at least to the extent he would admit it externally), again implying a level of disrespect for the opposition. Jonathan Brown more than once accused Max of living in the past. Brown is hardly a beacon of morality or good judgement, but I think he was on the mark. I'll stop here to avoid making this any longer - I'm sure others can add their own observations to this list. I've no doubt some of you will say I'm being pedantic, particularly on the final two points on how Gawn has presented in the media - but I just can't shake the sense that the selflessness, humility, and team unity that we had in 2021 has been pretty significantly eroded. I think this is encapsulated by our two finals games. We were deers in headlights when both Sydney and Brisbane cranked up the pressure. We clearly weren't running for each other. Uninspired and selfish can look a lot like being gassed. It was pretty alarming to see this team, our amazing, contested, tough, 'built for finals' team start playing hot potato and putting teammates under pressure with errant or 30cm hospital handballs. I think this reflected that the playing group to some degree lost the trust & faith they once had in one another. If I am unfortunately right, it won't be an easy fix from here. Culture is the hardest and last thing to get right, and it's the easiest and first thing you get wrong. Looking forward to the offseason moves and all of that - but my eye will be watching for the return of some of the cultural markers we had in 2021. Or at least, the non recurrence of the markers of 2022.

Oh please. All of those things were evident in mid season but we went into the finals with the same set up, the same tactics and strategies and the same game plan as were used in May and June. We had some work to do then to overcome the vulnerabilities. We have to do much better than this.

The elephant in the room … we weren’t fit enough

Kane Cornes: South Australian clubs would love to have Pickett in their team. Demonland: Kozzie wants out. He's gone! What can we get for him?

Spot on. There is NO SUBSTANCE to this Pickett thing. Kane Cornes said this on radio yesterday morning (Crunch Time). He threw it out there, Sam Edmund asked him to clarify, and he conceded he had no inside information but that the two SA clubs would love to have him. In other words, he's made this up to start a fire. Why would he do that, you ask? Well, he's a Port Adelaide man. And he is a regular on Trade Radio, which stirs [censored] up on a daily basis to fill 8 hours of airwaves a day talking about pretty much every single player on every single list. This is A-grade tripe.

THANK YOU FOR THIS THREAD!!! It’s likely the only thread I’ll open for a while since it’s hard to read and cry at the same time. I fully appreciate all the above mentioned positives. In particular, the end of the Carlton match… sublime. My contribution to this awesome thread is of course regarding the Demon Army. I wanna post this pic of a young kid named Dylan. He’s only 20yo and is arguably the most passionate Dees fan I’ve ever known. And that’s saying something since the DA is chockers with psychotically devoted (and yes, maybe delusional) diehards. Dylan lives in Yarrawonga but makes it to every single match. Every week, interstate included. He is by no means well-to-do, he works full time for not exactly huge wages but he invests so much time, money and emotion into the Dees. He combines his two passions in life, those being the MFC and vexillology (appreciation of flags) which results in some truly spectacular sights. The flag in this pic was first used at iirc the Carlton match. Dylan bought the material and paid a professional flag-maker to create it. He chooses to forgo a seat in the first few rows with us and instead sits towards the back of the bay so as to maximise the effect of this spectacular flag… I want @The heart beats truein particular to see this since he recently made mention of how awesome it looked. And THBT, I told young Dylan and it brought tears to my eyes to see how much the praise means to him. I also told Ryan what you and others have said about his input and he was similarly humbled. Dylan’s is but one story about the incredible folks in the cheer squad. There’s no end to the amazing people therein. And, as per every single match, win or lose, not one nasty comment is made about Goody and/or our players. Ever.

Blind Freddie knows that Ben Brown kicked his 60+ goals a year at North from kicks direct to his lead. He's a leading forward not a pack marker. Whoever's idea it was for the mids to just bomb it in has lost the plot

I would love simon to explain how "we tried to address it on the run". It wasn't by changing personnel or changing our plan. Did we just talk about it a lot in meetings? We are vunreable because we don't score enough. Even when we dominate we remain gettable and once momentum swings we are done.

Jeez we are really putting the boots in, even poor old marketing copping it…

Marketing: (unchanged) Bloody Goodwin

I’d be kicking more than tailgates layz.

I get that people are frustrated and disappointed right now, but if you think we didn’t try new tactics and structures through the second half of the year you weren’t watching very closely. Changing a method as drilled and dependent on positioning as ours mid season is very difficult. When we Implemented changes to put some speed on the ball, our defensive structures broke down behind the ball and we leaked goals. When we changed from 2 talls and a resting ruck to one tall and a defensive forward Brown became ineffective due to the blanketing he got from defenders. We should have been able to leverage the extra pressure forward to lock the ball in, and often we did, but our kicking inefficiency made that look like a fail also. We rotated a number of options through the second wing through the second half of the year but none of them really worked. We tried plenty of things, mostly they fixed some things while breaking others. We will need to make a few changes to the team in the off season and rework our method thinking about all 3 phases of the game rather than just trying to fix the attacking phase. I think Goody was saying loud and clear that he and the FD are on it.

Simon, you are stating the bleeding obvious. You talk about our inefficiency going forward, and yet the coaching dept failed to change the game plan or personnel required to address things. That's on you and the rest of the coaching dept. And I'd like to know how pursuing Grundy addresses our "vulnerabilities". Lack of sustained forward pressure was an obvious vulnerability, so how does the plan of having Gawn or Grundy resting forward address that?

Obviously a lot of doom and gloom on the forum which I can understand as the season didn't hit all the 'Pass Marks'. Just trying to isolate that to those threads and have at least one thread of positives such as Another great year for Clarrie Continued improvement of Harry Petty Another AA year for May Another solid year of goals for Fritsch/Pickett Form/Development of certain players at Casey, yes a little disappointing we didn't see more debuts in 2022 but imagine a few will be putting their hands up during 2023 pre-season Off the field we had contract extensions for Oliver and Brayshaw, broke our membership record, renewed some sponsorships

give it a try. You might enjoy it

I go to the football to watch the football, not to receive little trinkets of garbage.

Banged! Banged banged banged up.!

This is where the beauty of 21 is the gift that keeps giving. I am nowhere near as gutted as I would have been should 21 had not have happened. I am curious to how long this will last

We'll go in unchanged

No doubt that the health & fitness of your list as well as the total luck in the way your Club’s fixture happens to work out in a particular season of AFL are critical to success, and this year, our fixture was clearly the hardest in the AFL. That said, I believe that I have never seen a footy Club in any particular season, team selected & coached on game day with less creativity & imagination. This, despite having so many back up players in form at an undefeated Casey.

Einstein says Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results

We lost because it’s a game deep man

Thought I would do a 'What they are saying at Cockburn' piece for Jackson. From Bigfooty after Friday night's game The Doubters: **** I hope we win so we can delay the inevitable by a week. Oh dear. I was on the yay-train. Now I’m on the WTF-train. Lotta draft capital and lotta coin going out the door. Hope he’s worth it when he’s no longer 20 years old. Why does he have to double grab everything If we want someone to drop marks, lay tackles and almost get a clearance we've already got Logue for that. Yeah, there is some scary bust potential here… Please renege Please I beg you!!!!Fremantle don't do this I!!! The guy is not Pick 20 and 400k on present form. Need to keep much of the depth as possible. Not Lobb, Logue, Acres, Meek leaving and have what? Jackson and a few second rounders in? We go back to the start and have to regenerate. People aren't overreacting over one game, they're reacting over a very, very ordinary season with two pathetic finals performances It’ll be a ****ty look if 3 or 4 players go and Jackson comes in with a fat contract. He’s a basketball player trying to work out how to play AFL ffs He looked to have injured his PCL before the Port game. Usually it's a 12 to 16 week injury. Kept playing. Jackson is now worth a first and some change…can’t see West Coast splitting 2, especially given the Rioli trade will net them a second...just let it play out take it or leave it Some support: I just don’t understand that people are ok paying more than 500k to Logue who has reached his peak, but Jackson who has an massive upside is worth less than that? … He'll be coming to Freo and we'll wait until we receive actual figures and the deal before jumping at shadows, but I'm very much still in the grab this opportunity basket. People comparing meek to Jackson in terms of output can’t be serious, when meek was a 20 year old he was running round at Peel reserves and looked positively useless. I’m firmly in the bring jackson in camp. He will definitely improve dramatically as he gets to age 24, 25. Very few talls his age are the finished product. Actually none. Max Gawn didn’t play AFL till he was 23! I could see flashes of Jackson’s agility and ground level ball winning ability last night and it was very good. I think he will easily become an $800k player in time. We have to remember however that he was a Nab rising star winner last year and is a KPP. I think we would have come in with maybe $750k over 5 years. Here’s a question: Luke jackson for 7 years at $750k Tim Taranto for 7 years at $750k The fact that Jackson is already out on the paddock in a contenders side at his age is enough evidence alone that we’re dealing with a very special talent. Turns 21 later this month and has more development left in him than Serong (given his tougher position). You don’t look such gift horses in the mouth. My Favourites: Doesn’t matter what we think. Clearly you were born to inhabit chat sites. What I've really enjoyed this year is the almost complete lack of whipping boys. Sure, a few blokes have copped it here or there but in general, we don't have any spuds regularly getting games…Then we drop wages on Jackson that presumably make him our 2nd/3rd highest player and you can just see him slotting straight into that role. Can you become a whipping boy before you even put the jumper on? On the Freo board you can Geez, if we’re eating him and spitting him out now, can you imagine what the West will do to him if he unde rperforms?

I think the ‘shootout’ games we played in the second half of the season was the attempt to update the style, however we couldn’t integrate the dour defence and this go fast and straight tactic. This meant that we went back to the old percentage play book, slow, down the line, kick it to the pockets and try to lock it in. Also, some of the failed 45 degree kicks (May’s turnovers) were not comfortably executed - not well practiced or aligned across the group. Unfortunately, we were not able to defend rapid transitions from our forward half and it cost us every time. The plan to hold teams to under 60 points and just out score them didnt hold - teams simply played bolder and faster against us, and applied man on man pressure outside the contest, cutting down our space and upsetting our skills (or exposing them). We need a whole revamp in 2023, with a strong back 6 pivotal to our game, and a strong midfield still in play. We need to have better skill and speed ahead of the defenders and be prepared to control tempo (fast and slow) better than being chooks with our heads cut off. I can imagine a whole new setup for next year, with the nibbler and spargo roles changing to fast attackers, rather than grass protectors. Forward setup needs to change massively - suggest a combo of TMac JVL and Petty could be on the cards, with Weids as back up ruck (did great yesterday). Need to get chandler, Bedford, AMW and the like into the team to see what they can bring. Our vulnerabilities were determined by the fact that the defensive system took multiple years for the team to train to the right standard, and it was hard to break these habits. Also a pig headedness not to give more Casey performers real looks at AFL level. Back to Back might have been possible if no one else evolved. But they did, and we were stuck in 2021.

We were spoiled from midfield and centre clearance dominance in the finals last year. This led to hubris, with the coaches believing that the rest of the game plan was not vulnerable and so we did not evolve it. We needed to experiment with tactics and players prior to the last 3 minutes of the season.

Like posting on Demonland? 🙂

Need a new forward coach.

I think Ben Gibson does a fantastic job. I don’t want to bang an inflatable object, they just get in the way.

The marketing department are well down the list of my gripes with this season

I much prefer the minimalist approach to the match experience. I don’t want noise and things to look at shoved down my throat at every opportunity. It’s nice to sit quietly in between quarters etc.

Our problems were structural, not cultural We were in every game, bar 1 We needed a Key Forward and it was not available

Finished second lead in every single one of our losses 4 x All Australian players re-signing Simon Goodwin, Angus Brayshaw, Clayton Oliver long term no long term injuries expected to impact 2023 a very clear understanding of where we need to improve to lift the cup again Angus Brayshaw break out year Record membership 66,000 assuming another strong profit this season

JVR's just put in a year of playing good footy for Casey as a forward. After all that, we're going to flip in into the backline? Not sure about that.

THE CASEY SHOW by KC from Casey The Casey Demons will play in the VFL Grand Final at Ikon Park next Sunday after overturning their final round loss to the Brisbane Lions Reserves and dominating the Preliminary Final to emerge victorious by 51 points. And while the distance in standards between the AFL and VFL at finals time is admittedly a wide one and the opposition and conditions different, there were a few Demons on display who excelled to the point where one was left to ask whether they could have made the difference had they taken part in proceedings the night before at the MCG. For instance, Casey controlled the aerial duels in this match with a superiority all over the ground of 81 marks to 36. The discrepancy was clear everywhere and it set the scene for a confidence-laden display that was in stark contrast to that of the Melbourne which busted the game apart in the first half and slowed to close to a standstill in the end. One cannot help but wonder how that forward line would have performed with the boundless enthusiasm of key forward Jacob Van Rooyen with his marking strength and the experience and the strength of Tom McDonald. Each of them contributed three goals from key forward positions. The Demons made a slow start against the breeze at Casey Fields. They conceded the first goal and took a little over half of the opening stanza to record their first major when Andy Moniz-Wakefield took advantage of a great pass from Luke Dunstan. A couple more late in the term opened up a 13 point lead at the first break which they extended to 33 by half time. Unlike their AFL counterparts, the Casey variety of Demonkind never relented. Indeed, they picked up a head of steam and, with winners all over the field they smashed the Lions in the premiership quarter to go into the final break with a comfortable lead and then coasted to record a comfortable victory in the end. It was a case of the best from Casey on show. Casey had winners everywhere with their control of the key forward positions and an impenetrable defence led by Adam Tomlinson, Matt Buntine, Corey Ellison and Jake Bowey who was quite dynamic on the day and was another who showed the crowd what might have been if only the Melbourne selectors had shown some more risk and daring. The Demons dominated the midfield positions through veteran Jimmy Munro and Luke Dunstan with the run and pace of Toby Bedford and Kade Chandler always a factor in overturning the Brisbane dominance of their Round 22 encounter. Special mention should be made of Sam Weideman’s performances in the ruck. Despite his size, he has been growing (pardon the pun) nicely into the role and one wonders whether the Demons will try to develop him in the role going forward. The Demons also have plenty to look forward to in the form of their Northern Territory Next Generation Recruit Andy Moniz-Wakefield who shows all of the trademarks of a potential X Factor player of the future. Another in that category is Blake Howes who has the height and pace to fill several roles with another pre season or two behind him. Both will benefit from the experience of a final series at this level. With Bailey Laurie, Taj Woewodin and Deakyn Smith all out this week, there is a depth of talent available for the club to reboot in future years. However, there’s a premiership to be won in the meantime. Casey’s opponent will be decided later today when Southport and Gold Coast Reserves meet in the Second Preliminary Final. CASEY DEMONS 3.3.21 7.6.48 12.7.79 15.9.99 BRISBANE LIONS 1.2.8 2.3.15 4.3.27 7.6.48 Goals Casey Demons McDonald Van Rooyen 3 Bedford Bowey Brown Chandler Grey Howes Moniz-Wakefield Valentine Weideman Brisbane Lions Lohmann 2 Coleman Cockatoo Mathieson Sharp Tunstill Best Casey Demons Munro Bowey Tomlinson McDonald Van Rooyen Weideman Brisbane Lions Robinson Smith Madden Cockatoo Statistics Oskar Baker 11 kicks 7 handballs 18 disposals 3 marks 4 tackles 72 dream team points Toby Bedford 1 goal 1 behind 11 kicks 7 handballs 18 disposals 2 marks 9 tackles 95 dream team points Jake Bowey 1 goal 14 kicks 9 handballs 23 disposals 3 marks 2 tackles 83 dream team points Mitch Brown 1 goal 13 kicks 9 handballs 22 disposals 9 marks 2 tackles 96 dream team points Matt Buntine 10 kicks 3 handballs 13 disposals 5 marks 2 tackles 58 dream team points Kade Chandler 1 goal 1 behind 13 kicks 12 handballs 25 disposals 6 marks 8 tackles 115 dream team points Luke Dunstan 15 kicks 10 handballs 25 disposals 6 marks 10 tackles 120 dream team points Corey Ellison 3 kicks 2 handballs 5 disposals 1 marks tackle 20 dream team points George Grey 1 goal 1 behind 11 kicks 8 handballs 19 disposals 3 marks 1 tackle 66 dream team points Blake Howes 1 goal 2 kicks 7 handballs 9 disposals 3 marks 3 tackles 47 dream team points Tom McDonald 3 goals 2 behinds 9 kicks 11 handballs 20 disposals 1 mark 4 hit outs 79 dream team points Judd McVee 4 kicks 6 handballs 10 disposals 4 marks 1 tackle 40 dream team points Andy Moniz-Wakefield 1 goal 2 behinds kicks handballs disposals marks tackles dream team points James Munro 15 kicks 12 handballs 27 disposals 6 marks 8 tackles 112 dream team points Fraser Rosman 1 kick 1 disposal 3 dream team points [injured] Joel Smith 5 kicks 3 handballs 8 disposals 3 marks 2 tackles 38 dream team points Roan Steele 5 kicks 4 handballs 9 disposals 1 mark 2 tackles 34 dream team points Adam Tomlinson 18 kicks 4 handballs 22 disposals 4 marks 5 tackles 93 dream team points Daniel Turner 6 kicks 1 handball 7 disposals 4 marks 7 tackles 57 dream team points Ryan Valentine 1 goal 4 kicks 4 handballs 8 disposals 1 mark 26 dream team points Jacob Van Rooyen 3 goals 1 behind 8 kicks 6 handballs 14 disposals 6 marks 3 tackles 4 hit outs 86 dream team points Sam Weideman 1 goal 1 behind 9 kicks 4 handballs 13 disposals 4 marks 7 tackles 37 hit outs 117 dream team points Mitch White 11 kicks 6 handballs 17 disposals 1 mark 12 tackles 93 dream team points

Because Naughton is going to request a trade to the Demons. I made this up but let’s spit ball it.

Reading this forum, I notice that a lot of posters think we have the AFL’s best list. I think that’s because we’re so familiar with our players. Here’s how I would group last Friday’s 23 on this year’s form: Great season: Petracca, Oliver, May, Petty. Good season: Viney, Langdon, Lever, Fritsch, Brayshaw, Gawn. Average season: Pickett (occasionally good, but too often missing or undisciplined), Harmes, Hibberd. Disappointing season: Brown, Melksham, Neal-Bullen, Spargo, Salem, Jackson, Rivers, Hunt, Sparrow, Smith (although often injured). Not everyone will agree with me, of course. But as I see it, 10 of our last game’s 23 had disappointing seasons. I can’t imagine that would be the case for Geelong, Collingwood or the Swans. It’s not surprising that we didn’t perform in the finals when we rely on so few. We have some top players, but hardly the AFL’s best list.

I really liked returning home late from games and reading how it sounded like we weren’t making any noise from those who watched on the TV.

Cool story fossil.

Simon is not a good match day coach . Never has been. He needs to hand over more game day power to assistants who can identify issues and make adjustments.

I’d also add that, overall, Viney had his best season yet. Finals weren’t the greatest, but in most of the H&A games he was incredible.

I think the term "culture" is the most overblown term in AFL. Every year the premiership team will refer back to some isolated incident that changed the culture of the club. If you have talent, prepare well, are well coached and perform on the day, success usually comes your way. For once I agree with Saty. It's twaddle.

Nah

What games were you watching? In the finals we conceded more goals in the 2nd halves when we were passive. And we never used tempo control in 2021. It was all about getting it forward quickly and locking it in, or long down the line and get a stoppage. Nothing changed from 2021 to 2022.

It's telling as to their horrendous list management, not so much to his ability. They want him off their books because they don't have a choice - they can keep paying him, and he can probably come back and play good football for them, but given Cameron/Cox, that won't help them as much as moving him on and getting in the mids they're targeting to help replace Pendlebury, Sidebottom and Adams who are all ageing. That's not to say Grundy's a lock to be an A-grader next year, and I agree that we shouldn't be falling over ourselves to pay for him. No matter what the motivation, if Collingwood want him off their list, we have the upper hand in the negotiations.

Yes. Who would have thought a Melbourne demons 'fan' forum would be a place for supporters to come and air their grievances.. Sure is funny that you're using the same platform as a place to complain about the very thing it's designed for!

Where’s Dan Andrews when you need him? Shut the borders! Nobody in, and definitely nobody out.

The good news is with all the loading we have done we will be in peak fitness by Christmas

Spot on. Everything flows from there.

Smoke screen. Absolute distraction from selection and coaching failure.