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It won't make much difference if no junior football is played this year. Try picking today's talent on the back of what a 16 or 17 year old was doing last year. You will have as much chance of selecting quality at pick 1 or pick 20.

Paul "The Count" Callery turned 70 today. Great footballer and an even better bloke! Still very active. Congratulations! PF

yes I did as did My wife ( ex hawthorn member) as did many of my hawthorn friends. at the time it was always going to be MELBOURNE ... something as we have changed our nickname a few times already Melbourne DEES Melbourne Demons Melbourne Redlegs Melbourne Fuchsias so it was going to be Melbourne Hawks ( which lets be honest would have turned into SMFC like on back of Swans Jumper over time) many reasons convinced us . the money on offer was great , the social club ( which I believe hawks since sold and rent back ) , the extended list and so on. As people might want to change history or some just forget Melbourne voted for the merger ( takeover) Hawthorn stopped it yes many say and most likely is true many top end melbourne supporters purchased memberships to vote for it same as Hawks did, to vote against it This topic comes up every few years , history always seems to get changed .. Some of us thought it was the right thing at the time , now would I vote the same now or would my friends vote the same , I doubt i would now.

Funnily enough, I think a lot of Dees fans take Gawn for granted a bit. Some matches last year would have been heading towards 186 territory if it weren't for his efforts. It's true that a dominant ruckman winning hitouts doesn't automatically equal success, but neither does having one dominant midfielder. Grundy has won Collingwood's last 2 B&Fs. He's extremely influential for Collingwood. Gawn is every bit as influential for us. Mobile big blokes that take contested marks and control the air are worth their considerable weight in gold.

Strawbs was a great ruckman and team player but was not better than most ruckman going around. Brett Lovett was an outstanding HBF with skills,, vision, judgement and the ability to consistently win one-on-one contests and deliver to advantage. I rate him as one of the best Melbourne players of his era and one of the best HBF in the league. Serious, serious class. Lovett for me.

When visiting the JHR site pick a meeting such as Armidale (today) ... then click on 'Horse Racing Tips' and then once in scroll down to 'Best Bet' You'll find that their best bet at Armidale is R4 No.8 Pinnacle Power ... paying $1.40 the place - but I kid you not, it was paying $3.10 the place last night. It is now $3.10 for the win! So you have to be organised and quick (to get the odds) The early evening beforehand works best. So Multi up 3 or 4 place best bets from 3 or 4 meetings and then hopefully they all get into the finish. Nothing organised here or anything like that, just a heads up on another form of multi betting on an individual basis. I did a 4Pick last night and got combined odds of 30-1 (boosted) ... the same 4 picks is now showing 7-1. So to get the odds you've got to get in early before the rush of money comes on those best bets. Of course I do the form on the best bets as well and pluck out the best 3 or 4 picks from 7 or 8 race meetings. Of the country meetings listed on the JHR site yesterday, 7 of the 8 best bets all finished in the placings ... the odds were short on a lot of them but the night before, the odds could have been better (?) Bit of a long post Wadda but with betting, the devil is often in the detail. And the link to the JHR site is included in the post above (or in your quoted post)

Well thats interesting then if you can see a pattern. As you well know Macca i am the multi place king! Multi Mike DZ calls me..so you wont get any arguments from me. Ive had a look and i see the even have Sha Tin ! Im not sure what you mean by their standout picks tho? Do you mean the best of the best bets?? Best bet, second best bet, value bet? Ok, so are you suggesting we restart Monkey Business but with place bets from this site or now that the carnival is over, we continue with these place bets on ADATR?

Todd Viney ‘retired’ to train Mark Philippoussis, only to later return to the Dees when that inevitably went aas over elbow.

Peter Patrick Pius Paul Crackers Keenan - 1970-1975 101 games; 1981-82 - 30 games

I think we desperately overrate our players and always have. We don't have a single "elite" player on the list, and to even mention Pickett Fritsch and Petracca or even Jackson would make every AFL pundit laugh in embarrassment for us. When you have seen as many people touted as potential elites as we have only to see them fall short time after time, we really should avoid these type of conversations.

You are not a true supporter. I AM MELBOURNE THROUGH AND THROUGH. I don't think you understand that. Ohio.

@Dee Zephyr @Wadda We Sing A little while ago someone here on this thread made mention of the best bet tips given out on the Just Horse Racing Site I took note and over time have noticed that whilst a number of the best bet tips may not win, the standout tips do often run a place. So in place of the sporting multi's the place multi can suffice. The site covers all the country & city meetings and there's often some real each-way value involved with the B/B tips ... and the place dividends can often be $1.70 up to $3.00. And as we well know, a 3pick involving those types of odds can add up to 15-1 or better. What I'm doing is picking out the B/B at 3 of the various meetings. Sometimes 4 meetings if applicable. But I've just started out.

My 2 cents: Elite players don't win flags on their own - but history suggests it's almost impossible to win a flag without at least a couple. The term 'elite' is subjective and gets thrown around a lot. For mine, an elite player is genuinely in the discussion (among neutral supporters) as the best in the league for their position. By that measure, we have one - Gawn. We all love him - but the value of having a dominant ruckman in modern footy is debatable. Viney, Oliver and Trac are more than handy, but no neutral supporter would mention their names in the same breath as Fyfe, Dusty, Bontempelli, Cripps, etc (at this stage). May is very good, but I'd doubt many would list him in the best 5 defenders in the AFL - he's far too inconsistent. He's also 28, so unlikely to suddenly develop into the best fullback in the comp (even allowing for the Gold Coast factor). Jackson and Pickett are 2 of perhaps 50 highly promising, but ultimately unproven young players in the AFL. Statistically, it's highly unlikely that either of them become elite players (although early signs are promising). I love Fritsch, but Tim Membrey kicked 44 goals last year. He ain't elite. In order of most likely to become elite, I think: Petracca > Oliver > Lever > Jackson > Pickett

Gawn is the only elite on our list. Gawn easily can and does turn the tide in games. Its blokes like Oliver and Viney who are borderline as their impact is dependent on their disposal. Oliver always gets plenty but doesnt use it well. Round 1 2020 Jack Viney was an elite performance. Petracca isnt elite at this point in time.

The whole thing was a disgrace.

I would have walked had we merged . The thought of a shared history with the likes of Lethal and Dermie ........yuk ! I am sitting in a study with a framed NO MERGER sign overhead .

I don’t want to remember it

Good thing you didn't go with "best interstate player drafted by Melbourne". That would have been Darren Jaman.

I was feeling nostalgic and thought I’d reminisce about our best players from interstate ie. outside Victoria (excl Ireland). There have been disappointments from Tilbrook to Toumpas/Morton. But some absolute guns have moved to the Dees and had great careers. My list is: 1- Alan Johnson 2- Todd Viney 3- Brad Green 4- Russell Robertson 5- Steven Febey 6- Jeff Farmer 7-Steven Stretch 8-Danny Hughes 9-Shane Woewodin 10-Nev Jetta 11- Andy Lovell 12-Andrew Obst 13-Earl Spalding 14-Jared Rivers 15-Aaron Davey 16-Ray Biffin 17-Alan Jakovich 18- Warren Dean 19-Matthew Whelan 20- Colin Garland 21- Jeremy Howe 22- Jesse Hogan 23- Bernie Vince 24- Mark Jamar 25- Anthony Ingerson 26- Liam Jurrah 27- Brad Miller 28- Darren Bennett 29- Peter Vardy 30- Nathan Brown Special mention time Peter Walsh. Loved his attack on the footy. His heart was the size of a lion. I didn’t include Jack Viney as he came through the Vic metro schools system. Also Jeffy Garlett was from the Blues.

Regardless of what happens with the draft this year, this was a good trade at the time and I'm stoked that we've got Pickett. Good luck to Nth, but I have a feeling their supporters may look back at this as a 'We could have got Kozzi moment'.

Tale of 2 clubs... Hawks 4 flags, 80k members plus $$$ profits each year, proper home base MFC 0 flags, 50k members plus still in debt & lost 1.5 mill in 2019, no home base One club moved on , planned their future, the other going around in circles

Alternatively: Its a grand old flag at Whorebourne We;re the mighty fighting Dorks We didn't play fine in 1939 Cause then we were demons and Hawks We haven't got any supporters but we still do very well Red and blue and brown and gold splattered on our jumper thanks to the greedy AFL

Absolutely correct, Norm. Here's a stunning example: The game in 1947 in which Fred Fanning kicked a league record 18 goals (still a record) against St Kilda was the last game for the season and Fred's last appearance for Melbourne. His final kick was the sole behind in his day's tally of 18.1. He had kicked 16 until three-quarter time before being quietened somewhat in the last. The following season, he was lured to coach at Hamilton because of the extra money on offer, which worked out to be six times what Melbourne could pay. That situation would be totally inconceivable these days.

Yeah i saw that, i think it was a BB or something. You really couldnt miss if you were on him today tho. 8 placings from 9 races now with 1 to go. Of course i had another jockey on a short priced fav to win Will Power which came 3rd and knocked out my multi......haha.

Yeah Joao is in top form ... Zac hasn't had the rides today which changes the dynamic. 2 of Moreira's wins today have been odds-on favourites but of course those shorties can work in multi's. He missed completely on another odds on chance in race 6 - Heza Beauty. Was probably one of the bets of the day too. I thought so anyway ? But that's horse racing for you Wadda.

Well Magic Man is having a day out isnt he !. So far hes ridden 7 out of 8 for a Win or a Place in the first 8 races only missing once in race 6. Thats pretty impressive.

I was lucky enough to have Paul as a lecturer in my Teaching degree at ACU. He and his missus taught us teachers. He was a ripper! His playing exploits were before my time.

annnnd he used to sit on a chair on top of the `Bus Shelter` coaches bench so he could see the game, comitted.

I remember that shocker well. That last goal came from a long kick out of defence. A football nonentity, Brendan Ryan of North , amazingly opted to punch the ball on rather than take an easy mark. It rolled 30 metres to Schimma, who took 3 bounces then slotted the winner from the angle 40m out, seconds before the siren rang. It's etched in my memory, as was the '87 North game , where Clarkson won it with a set shot after the siren, in his first game! There was another one against Footscray on the MCG,where Darcy was given a mysterious free against Stynes in the ruck, with no time left He kicked the winner.

Also had the most talented players maybe? Bob McKenzie (snr), Robert Flower, Stephen Tingay and Nathan Jones during my lifetime. Not a bad quartet.

Ok so really it’s just Carl Ditterich and Crackers Keenan who played with the Dees, went to another (VFL/AFL) club and returned. No one else in the past 40 years. Still will hope that the Dees reach out to Jesse Hogan to see if there is any interest in a return one day.

Legend and demographics expert...

Jeff White was cruelled by the change of ruck rules when they made you stay within the circle. Without his run up he was never the same. Woey for me. His Brownlow year is underrated. Laser left foot and just kept getting the footy. Couldn’t handle a tag though.

Fewer rotations solves all of those problems (well maybe not umps being unable to distinguish 15m) Its the simple solution and the cause of most of the issues in football today. Why add more stupid rules to cover for rotations? Like many I have been watching some old games and the flow of footy is fantastic. The umpires are rarely noticed because there aren't stupid rules to adjudicate.

One of the best if not the best in his position but he does not dominate the game as you would expect an elite player to do. This is not his fault ...it is the declining role of the ruckman. I think Jeff White for some years had more influence on the team than Gawn has had. Jamar was probably as dominant as Gawn in the ruck but it did little good. TBH I have always been surprised and disappointed that our coaching staff have not come up with a few set plays to leverage Gawn's dominance. Hitting to space is an obvious one but I suppose that tactic goes against the possession and control mantra prevalent in today's game.

Warren Dean was a key to our 1987 night grand final win and the finals campaign in 1987. A classy forward. A classy wingman. So cruel again that he was debilitated by a knee injury. Huge talent.

That GC 2016 game at the top of the thread was the exact definition of a poor win. Played terribly that day and IIRC vanDenberg got us back into the game with a couple of strong marks and sausages. We lost a few close ones in the first half of 2007 to kill Daniher’s coaching career. One in particular against North at the G when we were about 6 goals down at 3 qtr time, grabbed the lead with 3 mins left, only for Swallow to kick an amazing goal with seconds left for us to slump to 0-9. Thankfully we got on the board the following week against Adelaide.

I said Bill Guest and Hassa Mann were the driving forces behind the merger and as Ridley is concerned I am going by the numerous conversations I had with him.

Wasn't it going to be the Melbourne Hawks? Dawks?

sounds good to me. I'd add my usual hobby-horse: If a player is tackled and a team member of the tackled player then jumps on the initial 2, pay a free against that third player. They often tackle the oppo who does not have the ball, which is clearly a free kick under current rules (though never paid). But I'd suggets a free regardless of who they 'tackle' as long as it is clear they are not trying to help extract the ball.

Earlier in the game Dorotich gave Duursma (I think) a proper knee to the head as Duursma was on the ground and Dorotich just ran straight through. I have to agree Strawbs was a massive loss for us the following week, upset our structure and we lost one of our few enforcers which were needed against a Hawks team out to make amends for 87. We still wouldn't have won but we probably wouldn't have lost by a record margin (until 119 in 2007) either. We beat the Blues and the Pies 3 times each in 88 and that'll always put a smile on my face.

Glaring omission!!!! Diamond Jim ..... built like Tarzan , but , ..... well there’s another story. The

Warren Dean was outstanding in 1987. Three Brownlow votes in Round 22 out at Footscray from memory, and played a great first couple of finals. Could have been anything but for his wonky knees. He, Viney and Spalding were the big three interstate recruits funded by the "Give Robbie one last chance to play finals" campaign.

Tassie Johnson Peter Marquis Scott Thomson Ray Groom Graham Molloy.

Da Rui deserved a thump for what he'd just done. Strawbs barely connected with his wild swing.As usual, the retaliator suffered. Losing O'Dwyer unbalanced us badly. I think Hughes had to play back-up ruck in the GF. Stynes was only a 2nd yr ruck at that stage. What a great job Duursma does on Kernahan. We had some tough players then, in Grinter, Hughes, Spalding, and the "string bag full of set-squares"... Steve O'Dwyer.

Wonder how their going to feel after win the 2020 flag?

Pickett and Rivers.

Gonna get in early for what is going to be a very big thread... Huge win for the club! Masterstroke!