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My mate had a casual chat to Tom today. Surgery went well, he was not on crutches and seemed to be walking well and should be right for a full pre season.

While I am indifferent to OMac, I'm uneasy about dumping a young KPP that has room to grow. ANB is clearly not up to it but if Tmac and Jetta are any indication, then I think we can develop OMac into a solid player. He also showed in patches last year that he can be a very good player. At times he was even being lauded as a potential AA backman. The club has also indicated that they're developing him to build his strength. He's unlikely to go imo. At the end of the day he's a key defensive player with finals experience, that managed a few scalps towards the end of last year. He has always been a scapegoat for our troubles but any poor performance from him is typically a symptom of rather than a catalyst of our issues.

I've noticed that Viney is using his right foot to kick more often than he used to. I don't know if this is contributing in a material way to his poor disposal efficiency numbers but I would encourage him to keep doing so. The more he does it, the better he will get, not just at using his right foot, but also at the amount he can contribute to the team. When he was solely a left-foot distributor, he kept getting caught trying to get onto his left.

I always like the optimism that somehow players who apparently aren't good enough to be in team that is 16th on the ladder will somehow have trade value.

Some of you have probably already got sick of my posts about this issue, but I feel like it's reached a point now that it needs a singular focus. For all the whacks Jones seems to cop, Viney has avoided criticism somewhat, perhaps due to his surname and his hardness at the contest (which we all love). The fact remains however, that our co-captain is one of the worst kicks in the league in a team crying out for some leadership as far as providing an example of good delivery going forward. The AFL average for kick inside 50 retention (which basically measures the effectiveness of delivery forward) is 46%. As of the most recent reportings* of this stat we are at 41% which puts us 3rd worst in the league. Gus and Clarry are both poor, and well below average, at 33% and 30% respectively, but Viney has gone at a staggeringly bad 24%. This means less than 1 in 4 of his kicks are actually going anywhere near one of our own players. *Source In the round 9 game v West Coast, Hurn and McGovern combined for double figures in marks directly from Jack Viney kicks. According to stats released today* we rank as the worst in the league for kicks inside 50 (not a surprise) and 11th for kicks overall. In the "kick rating" stats Viney is rated at -11.4%, which puts him at 508th in the league. 508th. The co-captain, and midfield leader responsible for providing an example of how we should be delivering the ball forward, is 508th in the league. *Source I know there's endless talk about how we need outside run and skill, but adding 1 or 2 (if we're lucky) players in to aid that weakness will not have much of an impact if we have this kind of a performance from our midfield leader. So my questions are: Given this is a continuing problem, is it a reflection of his limitations as a player, or is he operating as the coach wishes? Visually it appears to be more about decision making, but could his foot problems be effecting this? With Jones likely to not be a co-captain next year (in one way or another), do we make a player who reflects our faults so majorly the sole captain? And of course, how do we address and fix it as a club? This isn't to slam Viney, he's easily one of my favourite players in his consistent intent and unmatched toughness, but it's clearly a big issue for us as a team.

Have to say I liked Richo. A genuine no bullshite type of bloke.

Sign the man up as an assistant ASAP

The season is now officially shot. We cannot even technically make finals. Everything is about planning for next year. At least we have found that Petty can take a strong contested mark and is only 19. His performance yesterday was revelatory. He could develop into anything. Also we have found Hore who has become a key part of our remade back half. Then there is Baker who has some serious pace and dash as he showed in the twos yesterday where he was a class above. And that's without counting Lockhart who is developing nicely. There have been some gains amid the injury carnage. The rest of this year has to be viewed as an extended preseason for 2020. Look at it through that lens rather than what might have been if the footy gods had been kinder.

Goodwin can't get the players to relate to him, and also they're too friendly. Got it.

Very sad for Al...a man of great integrity and football knowledge. He’s the fall guy for a club with awful administration and years of poor recruitment. Would welcome him with open arms to the Dees.

Good work @Lord Nev I'm not as concerned with Viney's kicking as I am with the fact that inefficiency and inaccuracy has spread throughout the team like wildfire. Jack has his limitations and will never be Salem or Watts when disposing of the ball, but I think his positives far outweigh those limitations. I too would like to see how this year's kicking looks in comparison to previous years, and last year in particular. Ultimately, Viney is an inside midfielder who will win us the ball, and win it back if we lose it. He will only ever be an average kick, and will often be disposing of it in traffic and under pressure simply due to the role he plays. My concern is that the way the team plays means that all players are kicking from and into traffic, which makes things that much harder. Oliver and Brayshaw are good kicks, particularly the former, as is Jones. The problem I see is that they are never in a position of space to be able to execute as well as they should. The forward line is a horror show, and I don't think anyone apart from Salem and Melksham (with apologies to a couple of others) are going to have much to work with when kicking it in. Should the club do a better job of constructing the way the ball moves down the field, as opposed to ramming it through, I think a lot of the disposal issues will clean up.

I would expect Ratten to step in for the next 6 games. It seems the President, Andrew Bassett will take a lead role in appointing the new coach which is somewhat unusual. The chat seems to be that is because Lethlean is plugging for another mate, Brad Scott to get the gig. If Ratten gets the interim role but not the gig for next year there is a fair chance he will also be on the market. While unlikely, would love him back at the Dees.

Goodwin will be next if he can’t get his [censored] together...

Thank God, thought it was coming next week when we would have to play them on the rebound

i for one am really excited to hopefully see this weekend how petty and weed work together, against the best defence in the game footscray don't have much in terms of tall defenders particularly, but petty played well against them i like the idea of both weed and petty forward - they bring the ball to ground level and fight hard when it's there, playing in our forward line is a pretty tough ask; both look cooked later in the game (weed all year and petty shifting back with may moving forward late against the scrays) definitely keen to persist with petty forward given the absence of t mac and the defensive linchpins of may, frost, and lever

Massive overreaction. Maybe wait until he actually strings some games together before making the call.

I'm with you on this. And half the time they don't get in place for a return handball, just dispose of it and drop off the contest. It's terrible. When somebody does one it stands out because they're so infrequent.

This has been the year from hell, with a terrible pre-season, consistent injuries and extremely poor form resulting in the disaster we have right now. My silver lining: - Marty Hore looks a solid player - Oskar Baker could be a great wing option - Harry Petty looks to be a great key position prospect at just 19 - Hunt has got back in some good form - We will most likely have a pick between 2-4 - We will get an easier draw next season We better put any players with niggling injuries in for surgery early so we can actually get a full pre-season or I'll be [censored].....

In my view, Patracca's solid and consistent run of form amongst the carnage has been a big positive. Yes, he desperately needs to fix his mid range goal kicking, buy asides from that, I think he has been very workman like in his approach to keep presenting and bulldozing his way out of packs to often create forward movement for the team where the ball would otherwise have gone nowhere. Once the team gets it's act together around him, I can genuinely envisage thay he will start splitting games open at times. It's hard for him to have the same impact at the moment, when his performances and potential contributions are being dragged down by the team performance around him. Similarly, I really think Hunt has been very good particularly when measured by his consistency across the season and I also think his set shot goal kicking has improved the longer the season has gone on.

Next year is make or break for Goody. What gets me is that we never look the better organised team, even when we win. That we can dominate contested footy and clearances, but still get beaten, suggests our system is flawed. Goody no doubt knows we have weaknesses both in personnel and cohesion. The big question is can he fix them?

As evidenced by pulling the pin himself. I know it was probably jump before pushed, but for whatever reason, most coaches wait for the shove.

Viney was a 'captains call' by Goodwin and if ircc he didn't consult the players, advise the existing captain and don't think he consulted the CEO or the Board. Viney will be a capt/co-capt for as long as his father and Goodwin are at the club. Todd and Simon are very good mates. Afterall, Todd recommended Simon for coach. And they are good mates with Mahoney. So any impetus for change needs to come from someone else which I just don't see happening. A real leader as co-capt is the best we can hope for. Let Viney do his 'beast' thing, retain the title but someone else with an IQ does the footy thinking and media parts.

I don't share it.

I'm all for putting players in their natural positions and settle the team for the next 6 games and as for the W/L que, sera, sera. That means: Gus in the midfield. As others have said we are styfling his development on the wing as we did when we played him in the fwd pocket a few years ago. Jones and now Lewis have taken his spot. Time to put him where he is most damaging injury permitting). Their is room for him in the midfield with Harmes, Viney and Oliver as our mids spend about 80% game time on filed, the 4 can easily rotate off the bench for the whole game. Fristch and Baker on the wings. Backline is fairly settled so time to get the cohesion going. Jones has found his niche in defence Lewis? Love everything he brings to our club but would rather he not play as he won't be there in 2020 and this is get ready for 2020 time. If he must play put him fwd. Not much we can do about the fwd line with a number of our best out. But we can settle the rest of the team as above. As an aside, Mahoney in a 3AW interview lauded Petracca's strength and ability to clear the ball from stoppages. For mine it is another reason for Lewis to not play in the midfield as it is styfling Petracca's development.

That's exactly what I argued when I said it was crazy to think of trading watts. Our biggest weakness is our kicking and we get rid of our best kick (by some margin), one of only two elite kicks in the team. As I have said before I respect and understand the decision but I believe it was the wrong one and still do. I understand the cultural argument but you make that work somehow. Watts has in spades what we are missing - elite foot skills, good decision making and a proven ability to hit targets inside 50. And a proven ability to kick clutch goals. Can't see him playing on from 20 metres out, on a slight angle when we need a key goal.

Have to be written inadequately in order to allow inconsistent interpretation.

Our midfield's biggest problem is that it doesn't defend. We basically have 3 attackers and one defensive mid at every stoppage. That's great if we win it, although the opposition expects this and closes us down. But if we lose it, we basically surrender a score going the other way with only one tackler defending. I reckon we a need a new midfield coach and a new game plan at stoppages, or at least a more adaptable stoppage game.

You can add that Frost has become a much more reliable defender, although we know he will provide a "what the..." moment in every game. And Salem has become more consistent.

Just another one we agree on. I'm over this 'trade Petracca' rubbish. Yes, his set shots have been poor this year, but outside of maybe Hunt, that's true of the entire team. However, Tracy's had a really strong year as a forward in a team that has absolutely no idea how to use the ball. The team crying out for explosiveness, class, and creativity, and half the people on here want to trade one of maybe 4 players that actually possess the talents that win football games. Unreal.

Good grief.

Absolutely, and a lot of our core. Harmes. It goes without saying that these guys are young and still developing in all areas of life. It's a complex issue. Social media plays a huge part, we have an abundance of young players who have for the first time experienced serious positive media attention for what they did last year. It's hard not to block that out and keep your head down and bum up. But these are the lessons. Wait and see time if they learn and grow.

Firstly, if you've got a theory without a lot of evidence you should at least get the guys name right. It's Justin Plapp. Secondly, he's the midfield coach but Ben Matthews is the stoppage coach. He'd have far more say in what occurs at the stoppages where as Plapp's role would be based on how the midfielders move and use the ball in transition. Gawn has been excellent and the midfield has taken advantage in a number of games particularly in wins - v Syd, v Haw, v Freo. Max doesn't have Nic Nat's ability to leap over and hit it 360's though, so he's not a cheat code in the ruck. There's hitouts to advantage and there's hitouts that go clearly in to space and result in a beautiful clearance and Max can only get so many of them in a game. As for Gawn's clearance numbers they come about because after the hit out he's got some space to work, where as the other 3 mids have opponents on them. That we can't find little link up handballs to create clearer clearances is a bad mark on our coaches but in several games we have created a decent quality of clearance. Oliver turns the chance at a decent kick forward 50m in to a handball to Gawn who then hacks it 30m. For most of the Dogs game we did very well around the ground at stoppages and throw ins. But we also lack burst speed and dual sided ball use, we need a quicker/smarter ball user in the mix and we need a summer of the mids training together. They spent the first 2 months of the season trying to get fit and cover defensively.

Does this mean we are stuck with Viney as Captain for the next 10 years. Both Viney and Jones should lose the Captaincy on the performance of this year. Why, simply because they are not up to the task.... We will finish this season in 17th position, unless there is a minor miracle.

Losing by 8 points isn't reason to go bananas, demand everyone is sacked and rewrite history on Roos, Jackson et al Frost is better. Petty is better. We've found players in Hore, Baker & Lockhart. Petty has shown something. This year has been a disaster but there have been positives and enough to see that with better run with injuries and some tinkering to the gameplan we will be back next year. But keep raging if that makes you feel better.

Posted on a different thread about this same Data fromt he AFL site.... interesting that the move to half back has seen Nathan Jones actually become the most effective kick (using this same stat) in the team for those players who have kicked more than 100 times this season. That's ahead of Salem and Fritsch who we all know have good skills. I know that Viney and Clarry both play inside mid and they typically throw the ball onto their boot and that impacts this stat somewhat, but they need to work on executing kicks better under pressure, and often they seem to have more time than they realise...

I think the club has backed themselves into a dark corner with the Viney captaincy. I've said it before, the attributes he brings from a leadership perspective was exactly what the team needed at the time he was appointed - leadership through strength around the contest. As more and more players have been added to the list that also bring this, Viney has become increasingly irrelevant. He's a one trick pony - see ball get ball. That's where it ends unfortunately, and therein lies our current problem. I'm a big fan of Viney, and I will always see him as a spiritual leader for the club, but I really wish he wasn't a captain. His footy IQ simply isn't high enough to lead by example in the areas we desperately need right now. If it were up to me - I'd pull the trigger immediately at seasons end and replace Jones with Lever as co-captain. It's too late to demote Viney, because the optics on that are horrific - but what we can do is replace Jones with an actual leader across all facets of leadership, and that has to be Lever. A case can be made for Gawn too, but he isn't the on field general that Lever is, and that's exactly what we need right now with Lewis on his way out.

Our forward stocks are so depleted that Tim Smith playing half a season is a far more structurally valuable addition than Stretch getting another year. Josh Wagner is decent enough half back depth that hasn't put much of a foot wrong.

It helps put my mind at ease by applying this thinking across all of the players that have regressed this year and to be fair, Gawn is the only one who has continued to be a very good player in the face of this deplorable season. The catalyst lies somewhere amongst the game plan and team rules during match day. We’re a complete and utter shambles to watch and whilst I believe our skill level is questionable, I can’t accept the way we move the ball is ever going to result in a game style that kicks winning scores. Our football has gone from ‘chaos ball’ to absolute ‘uncontrollable ball’ and Goodwin has a lot to answer for let alone a a tonne of work in front of him this off season.

That incident in particular really infuriated me. It was clear the umpires changed their interpretation on the rule and were out to clamp down and get Max on that rule that day. So poorly managed. Instead of some kind of mid week or pre game breifing, they just unleashed on game day to the clear disadvantage of Max and the MFC. Was absolutely disgusting. The AFL play such favorites when there are these interpretations on the fringes that impact on and/or are taken advantage of by certain players. Think Selwood milking head high tackles for years and Buddy Franklin being able to run off the line during his approach to goal because of his 'natural arc'. #freemax #itsruckcraftbigboy

Don't ask me. All I know is that Coaches said last year Max was too dominant and they would talk to the umpiring department and the next thing you know there are 5 frees against him in the Saints game. Those frees have never been paid to him or against any other ruckmen since. The we see one umpire pay 2 more of the same that were just plainly wrong. One was a gift goal when we were a chance to win and then we lose by 8 points.

Reading this thread you'd think we lost by 40+. We lost by 8 points in what was almost a 50/50 game. Some posters are gonna look real silly next year trying to backtrack on their comments about Goodwin, Jackson, Roos and certain players when we're playing finals again.

We were killed for pace by Essendon early in the season and by Neale and Zorko against Brisbane. Oliver, Harmes and Viney aren't slow but they need to get even sharper in two way efforts from stoppages as well as across the ground. As good as Gawn is he's also a bit of a liability at centre bounces compared with some rucks who can chase down opposition mids and can also be used as effective clearance players. So often a Clarry handball goes to a stationary Gawn who then struggles to get a kick away. Then there's Brayshaw who's too slow entirely to be in the centre clearances if he can't pick up his defensive transition and Petracca who's lazy in swapping to defensive work and lazy around the ground. At stoppages teams hold Oliver and rove to Gawn. Our best clearances have all come with Viney who actually has the pace and smarts to read a tap and get moving forward with the ball. Unfortunately it then means he has to kick it. Outside mid has been spoken about in depth. I still have a decent amount of faith in Fritsch and I like Baker as a developmental player who needs a huge summer. Otherwise the cupboard is bare.

I reckon the biggest problem is our disposal is often done when we are off balance. Part of this is that no shepherding is occurring to make aand protect space. An initial release is made and no shepherd or attempt to stop the receiver being tackled.

If we're rolling with this 1 game comparison, then I'd take 3 goals, 24 touches and 7 marks in an Elimination Final against a high quality backline, than 3 goals, 10 touches and 5 marks (with no other real key forward target) in a meaningless game against a rubbish backline. Petty did well, hope he gets another chance at playing forward this week, but let's judge it when (or, if) both get to at least 50 games as forwards as a minimum. Shouldn't really have to argue about judging a player after 1 game, come on mate.

Darcy Moore has had 5 years? In the system, and despite being injury prone has shown this year that he can actually play. I have faith in the Weid. I also liked Petty’s game on the weekend, and even more so the poise and control he showed prior to injury for three quarters against Carltank the previous week. I also remember his embarrassing debut against the Saints last year. In a season of despair, there is some big picture thinking and promise here.

Clearly, the ICC have been working behind the scenes with Gil, Hocking, the MRP to ensure that cricket will never have to endure farcical rule interpretations and decisions made up on the spot. Hang on.....

Hannan and ANB should be absolute outs. Oscar Baker sounds like he played well for Casey as did Corey Wagner. Otherwise the cupboard is bare.

Trac’s getting better every week, including his set shots. He was one of our best players and managed to break through Bulldogs players on numerous occasions. Instead of blaming him for the loss, praise him for assisting with keeping us in the game.

I'm in the minority, but I feel sorry for them. GWS had twice as many concessions as they did, at a time that was the most crucial to their long term viability. Add to that Ablett royally screwing them over. I mean how many players that had ongoing shoulder issues and missed games constantly could end up now playing full seasons, WITHOUT ANY STRAPPING!!! He scammed that club, had no intention of playing to his best. It was a time out for him and a cash in. He messed up the culture with his religious BS as well. No wonder players wanted out. I'll get smashed for it, but I think they should get a priority pick.