Leaderboard

I posted this in another thread, but it is more relevant in this thread: Look, I've calmed down now. But that error cost us 4 points - in a game we won expected score (a stat the clubs put a lot of store in) by 2 points. it's simply not good enough. And i would say the same if it was us that benefited. If they use ARC they should invest in the technology. And then have a proper system. The VAR in the world cup works brilliantly, one because they have the tech. But as importanty it takes the pressure of the referee and linesman. If a difficult , and potentially controversial decision has to be made, it's made by an anonymous person shielded from baying fans. And the on field ref doesn’t cop it. We essentialy revert to the umpires call when in doubt ' and they have made the call in the moment, under huge pressure with no option to take their time and calmly review the evidence. If they don't want to invest in the tech to work and/or have a proper system then scrap the arc. And make it simple. If the umpire is 100% certain it is touched, it's a point. If not 100% certain its a goal. Takes out the grey. A huge amount of stress is avoided - not to mention resources that could be instead poured into improving the decision making skills of theumpireds. Think about it. The ARC was brought in after hawkins was awarded a goal in a gf when replays (and the naked eye) showed it hit the post to prevent similar 'howlers' Fifteen years later we are still having howlers. But worse. Because everyone watching sees it over and over. The law of unintended consequences. A law the AFL consistently, repeatedly fail to respect, let alone heed. They could have saved a fortune, and a huge amount of angst, if they simply changed the rule and made it like rugby (and soccer, and Hockey and gridiron and ice hockey and Gaelic football) - it hits the inside of the post and goes thru, its a goal If it hits the post and goes back into the field of play it's a point (or play on, which would be rare, but add an interesting variable). Instead we now have ridiculous scenarios of amateur "snicko' (i mean please - its not even accurate and nor all grounds has it), points getting paid when it hits oversized, flapping padding and minutes wasted trying to zoom in using sub standard tech on the point of impact - only to end up going with whatever the "soft call" was (which there is no fixed rule on what it should be ie they could simply make the rule if its not clear its a goal). To me it yet another example of the AFL making things ridiculously, and unnecessarily complicated and having grey areas they could take out of the game. It is hard not think it is a conscious decision by the AFL not to fix all this rubbish up. Why might they not take as much grey as they can out of the game? The AFL is addicted to controversy because controversy sucks up media air time. Creates clicks. Unlimited content. A good example is a free for insufficient intent to keep the ball in play. What a ridiculous concept. The umpires have to determine the players mindset it in for petes sake. Not to mention factor in things like proximity of teamated, bounce of the ball eyc eyc. Deliberate made more sense. But was still flawed. Take out the grey, make it easier for the umpires, and just have the last touch rule between the arcs they have in AFLW. Not a single footy fan would be unhappy with that. And critically it would reduce errors, take out a variable and most important of all give one less thing for fans to howl at the umpires for. There are dozens of of rule changes they could make if they were serious about making the job of the umpire easier, reducing the criticism they receive and removing as much grey from how the game is officiated as possible. Clearing up the holding the ball/insufficient attemp/not disposing schemozzle is just one. It was a joke on Saturday night. And that's on the AFL, not the umpires. I watched Casey yesterday. There is CLEARLY a directive not to pay htb. Just like Saturday night, a ridiculous number of clear frees not paid. And the new one is blocking or holding in marling contests. I watched 10 mins of the saints game and King got the softest free for a hold in the goal square. Bowey gets pinged when he scraps and marks. Yet other clear blocks, scraps and holds get completely ignored - even when there is a 4th umpire right there. And they wonder why people get so upset at umpires. That's on the AFL. The AFL talk a good game about the importance of not criticising the umpires. Which is fair enough. But they are the problem, and offer no solutions- not even when the solutions are in their control and simple to implement. Umpires deserves better. Players deserve better. Fans deserve better.

This crept up on us. I hope he gets the kudos that he deserves and a bit of media coverage. His 200th match this week and richly deserved with the injuries he had to overcome early on in his career. a premiership captain, All Australian and B&f winner and most importantly a good bloke. Well done skipper and I hope we get the win. Here's some merchandise from the club email to celebrate it. https://shop.melbournefc.com.au/gawn-200/?spMailingID=9824151&spUserID=Mjg4NTYxMzIyNzkzS0&spJobID=1800275706&spReportId=MTgwMDI3NTcwNgS2 Oh and it's Alex Neal-Bullens 150th to.

No-one seems to have mentioned this, but I'm sure Binman saw it and will mention it tonight. In both the 3rd and 4th quarters on Saturday I don't think Carlton would have had an inside 50 in the last 10 minutes of either. They were cooked. I said to my kids at the game that 3 qtr time has come just at the right time for Carlton as they will get a breather. We will keep coming and run over them again in the last, but just need to hold them for the first 5-10 minutes of the 4th quarter. Alas! Unfortunately we did not take advantage of this as we kept bombing into an outnumbered forward line. I hope we learn from this, as the goal that we were all shocked that Salem missed will be the secret to beating the Blues next time. move it around the top of 50 and get it to the likes of Petracca, Rivers (Fritsch) and take shots from longer range rather than bombing it to the goalsquare (unless Max is resting down there and we have small forwards at his feet) It was clear to me that Carlton do not have the fitness to play this game for as long as we do, as we have been training for it for 3 years. I think we beat them for this reason in finals, unless we give up goals in the way we did at the start of the last quarter, It was better to learn this lesson on Saturday. I also don't think their potential ins will be as beneficial as they and all the pundits think (particularly McGovern) as I they may not necessarily be as fit as the guys who are in the Carlton team atm.

A literal giant of the game. The best ruckman of the last decade and one of the all time greats. A brilliant captain, a brilliant club person and someone you are really proud to call your own. Everyone loves big Max and he’s given us 200 bloody brilliant games. From the hilarious to the downright insane. Kicking goals to win is a minor premiership, kicking goals to get us into a grand final, and holding that cup after 57 long years. Well done on 200 heart and soul games. Jimmy knew you were special and you’ve shown us all why! Here is to more AA jackets, more giant babies and most importantly more premiership medallions!

Against my better judgement, I watched the last quarter. We played out of our skins to grab this match. To those that say that umpires don't influence results. We dominated the last quarter after our first few minutes of lapsing. Probably seen through an MFC lense but.... 18:30 - Bowey takes a clean mark centre wing coming down with one arm held by his opponent - Free kick Carlton. 17:50 - Clear push in the back by Cripps on Brayshaw - no free 13:15 - Clear Throw by Carlton player while being tackled - no free 12:40 - Carlton player jumps on Sparrows back - no free 12:21 - Rivers gets a free for obvious dangerous tackle which wasn't going to be paid by the closest ump - Ump further away pays the free- Rivers kicks to Snith who marks and goals - Fantastic 11:10 - Salem clearly held off contest. 09:40 - ANB just misses snap at goal. 09:22 - Melksham slips over in vital one on one contest in goal square. Carlton clears. 08:16 - Dow get's caught with one arm free and flops forward to pull a push in the back - Free kick Carlton (after umps miss two to us earlier in the qtr) 07:20 - The most ridiculous set of Carlton players being tackled by us eventuating in Cripps just dropping the ball - No Free! Just ridiculous. 7:00 - Brayshaw tackled around the head by Cripps - no free play on. 5:56 - Martin pulls a soft Push in the back in their forward 50 for a shot on goal as McVee bumps him in a one on one contest 50/50 decision I reckon - Free kick Carlton 4:13 - Incredible defence by the Dess for the next 2 minutes culminating in Viney being piled on in the back by 3 Carlton players - No Free 4:00 - Gawns arm held again in last 3 ruck contests. 3:00 - Great defence again from Hibbo, Lever and a long pass to a gut running Sparrow 2:43 - Sparrow get's it forward and we should have goaled from this passage as Grundy well clear forward and deep, instead it's back to JVR by the boundary and his legs are taken out 50m from goal - No Free 2:15 - McVee great kick to Salem who should have goaled. 1:43 - Deliberate OOB to us on the wing - Free kick Melbourne 1:40 - Melksham slips again - should have worn steel studs illegally like Cripps did Milkshake. 1:17 - Carlton player is caught red hot and just flops forward trying to milk a PIB - No free 1:08 - Langdon caught - lucky no to be HTB - No Free 00:48 - Petracca scores a goal and gets a point. 00:25 - Deliberate OOB - Free kick Melbourne. 00:20 - Gawn blocked from running to the marking contest and then scragged in the marking contest - play on 00:00 - Carlton steals 4 points. It was actually good to watch again, we really dominated most of the last, just didn't finish. But yeah, the inconsistencies and when the soft free kicks allow a shot on goal can ruin a great game of footy. HTB and incorrect disposal no longer makes any sense. Players are deliberately flopping forward to try and pull frees for PIB while at other times, players get sat on and get nothing. Max and Clarry can be scragged all game yet Bowey's opponent get's the softest free for holding in a one on one. JVR can have his legs taken out and it's called corageous by the commentators. The review system is a joke. How does the AFL just announce it's cleared itself again and again?

I was going to blame the umpires for the two set shots that the normally reliable van Rooyen missed, but it turns out that was the fault of @WalkingCivilWar and the incorrect positioning of the bullseye sign.

If we haven't already, I hope the club grows some gonads and sends a please explain to the AFL about the number of times Gawn is manhandled. Just because your 208cms doesn't mean you don't deserve the same rules as everyone else.

Ummm, I think you’ll find that they actually were very much the reason we lost.

You have to play to get votes.

He had some great moments and games but for mine one of the most overrated footballers in the past 20 years. Was great at hit outs and follow up clearances in his prime but mostly awful around the ground and a terrible mark for his size. The way the commentators used to go on about him probably skews my judgement, but it was unbearable at times.

We're 17-0 since the second last game of 2020 when May, Lever and Tomlinson all play in the same side. These include wins this year over the premiers elect and the same team that we lost to on the weekend. Can someone please explain why we abandon this formula at the drop of a hat?

Yes I copped plenty of gloating from someone I employ. After about half an hour of it, I told her that if she didn’t put a sock in it, her job would be advertised on Seek.com this morning. I didn’t hear another peep from her.

Despite the fact he hasn't played for two years, the All-Australian selectors will find a place for him in the squad.

Might have hurt his finger giving it to the umps.

Melbourne were not garbage in the first quarter - Carlton were on fire and pouring the ball into their forward line - and they ended up with !.3. Either they were garbage, or our defending was off the chart superb. And defence is equally part of the game. Wins premierships. Momentum came our way eventually, due to our unfazed excellence despite extreme pressure and spending most of the game on the back foot, and despite a couple of very-much-debated umpiring gaffes (Van Royen's free kick is surely inarguable), our team held firm and eventually got on top and ought to have won. Yes, Salem let us down with an uncharacteristic poor kick, and van Royen's accuracy deserted him - but we were the equal of Carlton. A lot of talk about Carlton - well, let them talk. It was a pretty impressive effort from Melbourne. We'll get better - Carlton aren't likely to play much better than that - it was pressure, not superstars, that got them the points. I reckon we'd be up for a return match any time!

Hmmmm 🤔 maybe I didn’t ‘masquerade’ as a Carlton supporter for all those years… maybe I AM a legit Carlton supporter after all. My entire family is Carlton, hardcore ‘baggers the lot of them, including my recently deceased sister. When we were out in the middle on Saturday, the Carlton banner was raised and their song played and it made me cry. My banner crew buddy comforted me and said, “if the Blues win tonight it will be for your sister.” After the match she said to me, “when I said the Blues might win for your sister, I wasn’t suggesting you make it happen!” 🤣

That's a really great idea. A brilliant idea. Make them full time professionals. Reward them properly. Every game has one. Rotate them so they also do the other non 'conductor' roles. Have them essentially coach the other umpires at the breaks and half time Assess their performance on how well the overall game is officiated. Offer considerable performance bonuses for when KPIs are exceeded. Put them in front of the media after games, or on the Monday morning. Allow tough questions to be asked. Allow them to admits errors and take on board conductive feedback. But also to push back on silly narratives. Give them some say in how the rules are written and interpreted. Allow them to become trusted voice, an authoritative voice, fabric of the game and part of the conversation the way Glenn James and harry Bietzel were. The pros act as mentors and there is a clear pathway for excellence and promotion. Have only the pros do prelims and GFs. Which is essentially what happens anyway - the best umpires umpiring the biggest games. They can also do the Brownlow votes. Announce the four pros to officiate the GF at the Brownlow (and and pay them a really good bonus). Award a best umpire of the year - the Bietzel - and that person is the head umpire for the GF.

A billion dollar organization that wastes so much money on absolute nonsense, can’t find a few bucks to invest in better cameras? Give me a break, the AFL is an amateur organization. They don’t want full time umpires and they don’t want to better their technology to help assist umpires. Sort it out before Collingwood lose a final to ****ty ARC vision and all hell breaks loose 🙄

I was annoyed with the decision in the last against the blues but if that was a GF I would have been ropable and started to tear the MCG apart and I’m sure I wouldn’t be on my own. These mistakes shouldn’t happen at anytime but ESPECIALLY in a GF

@binman I need a 7000 word essay to tell people why they need to calm down please @Binmans PA if I don’t hear from him soon, expect a follow up email from my team

I seem to be a bit of an outlier from the way most people saw the game... but Grundy turned the game in the 3rd and 4th quarters when he went into the ruck. 3rd Quarter clock had 13:15 left, Grundy comes on with scores 6.6. 42 to 4.4.28 Carlton's way. When Gawn comes back on it 6.6.42 to 6.4.40 Carlton's way. No more goals in the quarter (we got two more points) 4th Quarter, Max is rucking at the start when we give up 3 quick goals resulting from 2 centre clearances (Oliver wasn't in the centre either) and another starting from a throw in. Grundy comes on at 9.6.60 to 6.6.42 Carlton's way with 15:42 on the clock. We kicked two goals in the next 4min period and then Max was back on. We didn't kick any more goals from then on (though as we all know we had decent opportunities to) Maybe Max had an injury - but the TDK / Pittonet combination seemed to trouble him. Having Brodie in the side made a big difference. Brodie didn't do a lot up forward but I'm not sure if Petty (or anyone else) would have made a huge difference - the game style was quite different to other weeks. I think it's worth persisting with (maybe keep Smith forward). Also think there's plenty of ways they can manage this better - as others have pointed out, when we're kicking in Brodie shouldn't be in the same vicinity as Max (it means he's got to mark against both their men). Brodie also looks a bit lost when we have to defend and he's in the ruck - it just doesn't feel like they're currently maximising their strengths. I don't think TMac is the answer - so hopefully they can get this to click the next few weeks.

Trying to find “the forward connection”?

Sometimes it's the lack of calls that make up the many bad decisions. Our tackling was not rewarded like theirs. Not a dig at you but anyone who says bad umpiring doesn't cost clubs games has absolutely no clue. Umpires are human and often get swayed or intimidated by large parochial crowds.

Heading to Adelaide is much better than going to Brisbane

hunter has been very good all year he's not getting dropped

Young George Gawn is not quite two years old but is reportedly already taller than Charlie Spargo. Demon fans should also be rapt than George's middle name is ... Oliver! (Nickname GOG?)

I thought Gus deserved a little more than 2. Worked himself to exhaustion levels.

I’m still angry. It was a goal. Marchbank didn’t even protest (unlike Silly-Silvagni I’m the 93 GF). How did the goal umpire categorically decide it was touched. Usually the call (99-1 ratio) is “it’s a goal but it may have been touched “ but MFC got the one umpire that decides he categorically thinks it’s touched. Sure it wasn’t the sole reason we lost … but it was one of the reasons we didn’t win !!!

Yes, i hadn't considered that. That makes perfect sense. An elegant solution that like all such solutions is simple, logical and makes sense.

Give me a spell. We were not 'garbage' for the first quarter and half. The blues were brilliant. Their intensity was off the charts. And we stood up amazingly well. You've managed to insult both the Dees AND the blues (if we were garbage for a quarter and a half any decent team, let alone a tem of the Blues caliber, would have gone into half time with a 6 goal lead) Such rot. On ABC radio after the game, whcih i srted listing to on my way home, Brendan Goddard said the 'demons lost no admirers, they were awesome' (he also went on to say that ARC decision was clearly an error and questioned how they could have made the decision so quickly). Without a word of a lie, i immediately thought to myself, yes they will - but not from any objective person, but rather it will be dees fans who can't see the woods for the trees. This was the pressure rating for the match (note 200 is consider elite, finals like pressure - we finished with an average across the game of 200. That is unbelievable). Team pressure Quarter For Against 1 196 224 2 185 201 3 207 197 4 214 202 Match 200 206 The fact that the blues had an average of 206 is credit to them. Amazing pressure - i would be very surprised if they have had a higher rating in any other game this season. No other team has come close to that sort of sustained pressure in a game against us this season. By way of comparison in our previous encounter both team averaged 170 for the game. And IIRC the Pies Port game, which many have said is the best, most intense game of the season, was aprox the same as the blues dees game. Most finals don't get to those levels. Our GF win didn't. And nor did the Pies Cats game on Friday night for that matter. And before you dismiss the stat, clubs put huge stock in it. It was designed by Champion Data for clubs, not TV. If you don't believe me listen to McRae's post match presser - he promised they would lift their pressure rating ahead of the game and in the presser references their pressure being back to it's very best - 'at 2' (note: the data the clubs get, which Brendan Sanderson has said is shown to players on the bench thru the match, is expressed as say 1.8 for 180 - fox and the herald sun just adds a zero to make it sexier and easier for fans to grasp).

Routine check up after the finger in question was successfully removed from his backside about a month ago. Nothing to see here

If Hawkeye at the tennis can pinpoint a tennis ball travelling 200km with in millimetres, surley the tech is available. What possible excuse is there not to have it at all the major AFL venues? Can't be $$$ surley

That is precisely right. Look, I've calmed down now. But that error caused us to not get 4 points - in a game we won expected score (a stat the clubs put a lot of store in) by 2 points. it's simply not good enough. And i would say the same if it was us that benefited. If they use ARC they should invest in the technology. And then have a proper system. The VAR in the world cup works brilliantly, one because they have the tech. But as importanty it takes the pressure of the referee and linesman. If a difficult , and potentially controversial decision has to be made, it's made by an anonymous person shielded from baying fans. And the on field ref doesn’t cop it. We essentialy revert to the umpires call when in doubt ' and they have made the call in the moment, under huge pressure with no option to take their time and calmly review the evidence. If they don't want to invest in the tech to work and/or have a proper system then scrap the arc. And make it simple. If the umpire is 100% certain it is touched, it's a point. If not 100% certain its a goal. Takes out the grey. A huge amount of stress is avoided - not to mention resources that could be instead poured into improving the decision making skills of theumpireds. Think about it. The ARC was brought in after hawkins was awarded a goal in a gf when replays (and the naked eye) showed it hit the post to prevent similar 'howlers' Fifteen years later we are still having howlers. But worse. Because everyone watching sees it over and over. The law of unintended consequences. A law the AFL consistently, repeatedly fail to respect, let alone heed. They could have saved a fortune, and a huge amount of angst, if they simply changed the rule and made it like rugby (and soccer, and Hockey and gridiron and ice hockey and Gaelic football) - it hits the inside of the post and goes thru, its a goal If it hits the post and goes back into the field of play it's a point (or play on, which would be rare, but add an interesting variable). Instead we now have ridiculous scenarios of amateur "snicko' (i mean please - its not even accurate and nor all grounds has it), points getting paid when it hits oversized, flapping padding and minutes wasted trying to zoom in using sub standard tech on the point of impact - only to end up going with whatever the "soft call" was (which there is no fixed rule on what it should be ie they could simply make the rule if its not clear its a goal). To me it yet another example of the AFL making things ridiculously, and unnecessarily complicated and having grey areas they could take out of the game. It is hard not think it is a conscious decision by the AFL not to fix all this rubbish up. Why might they not take as much grey as they can out of the game? The AFL is addicted to controversy because controversy sucks up media air time. Creates clicks. Unlimited content. A good example is a free for insufficient intent to keep the ball in play. What a ridiculous concept. The umpires have to determine the players mindset it in for petes sake. Not to mention factor in things like proximity of teamated, bounce of the ball eyc eyc. Deliberate made more sense. But was still flawed. Take out the grey, make it easier for the umpires, and just have the last touch rule between the arcs they have in AFLW. Not a single footy fan would be unhappy with that. And critically it would reduce errors, take out a variable and most important of all give one less thing for fans to howl at the umpires for. There are dozens of of rule changes they could make if they were serious about making the job of the umpire easier, reducing the criticism they receive and removing as much grey from how the game is officiated as possible. Clearing up the holding the ball/insufficient attemp/not disposing schemozzle is just one. It was a joke on Saturday night. And that's on the AFL, not the umpires. I watched Casey yesterday. There is CLEARLY a directive not to pay htb. Just like Saturday night, a ridiculous number of clear frees not paid. And the new one is blocking or holding in marling contests. I watched 10 mins of the saints game and King got the softest free for a hold in the goal square. Bowey gets pinged when he scraps and marks. Yet other clear blocks, scraps and holds get completely ignored - even when there is a 4th umpire right there. And they wonder why people get so upset at umpires. That's on the AFL. The AFL talk a good game about the importance of not criticising the umpires. Which is fair enough. But they are the problem, and offer no solutions- not even when the solutions are in their control and simple to implement. Umpires deserves better. Players deserve better. Fans deserve better.

My mate just showed me the holding the ball on JVR in the last few minutes (I couldn't see it from my spot in the MCC). That is the worst decision in history and an absolute disgrace. Was a text book taking the legs and should've been a JVR free.

Can't believe the AFL won't pay 100 grand to have some Phantom cameras! (1,000 fps at 4K).

The fitness was glaringly obvious at the ground. Honestly they clung to that win for the last 10 minutes. It was an admirable effort, but they were shot, and we looked much fitter. Why I’m disappointed not to win the lesson for our boys is obvious. We have the legs, but we need a better plan for pulling teams out when they flood back - especially when we don’t have more contested marking players ahead of the ball. We also would be furious at the centre clearance goals we gave up to start the 4th. One less of those and we win. I’d be really surprised if Carlton can keep this up for another 6 weeks. They had 7 scoring shots to 10 after half time, but managed 6 goals (we went 5.5). That game goes for 1 minute longer in either the 3rd or 4th term and we would have won. Also, just to be clear, we did win. I still can’t believe there was ‘insufficient evidence’ that the ball was touched. If the ARC weren’t told of the umpires call they’d say that was a clear goal. They had their opinion swayed by the goal umpire because the angle that shows the ball wasn’t touched was the angle the goal umpire saw. If you showed that goal line footage to 10 people and asked them to say where was it touched all 10 of them would say it wasn’t. That the ARC is made aware of the goal umpires opinion is a clear fault in the system.

This is the stupidity of it.. Theyre attempting to prove something that didnt happen. They can't show that it did. It's a nonsense situation. If you cant show it DID occur then logic dictates you must assume it DIDN'T. .. ergo....a Goal. The umpire by definition didn't know at the beginning...but somehow does at the end ??? This argument is not about the game or indeed the outcome per se... its about this particular event. Granted...it had ramifications. So what they are saying.... is ...they couldn't verify it WASN'T touched... which is a nonsense as the proof required was that is WAS.

Please let it go. I beat myself up at the time until the others assured me no harm had been done, but it took a tonne of convincing. 24 hours earlier I was at a funeral home saying goodbye to my little sister. That’s not an excuse but it’s an explanation of sorts. So please understand when I ask you to just let it go.

We'd be well advised to pick our best possible team this week and win - lock in a top 4 spot and then do whatever floats your boat in the final game.

I still like our chances for top 2. I think we can (and should - although a desperate Sydney in the final round over there will be a dicey prospect) win both, and reckon Freo is an OK chance against Port this week. More importantly, I think our form/fitness coming into finals is pretty good. Certainly better than last year. I posted elsewhere, looking at the losses we've had - we've lost by a total of 70 points across 7 games (10 per game!) - which if you remove the Bombers game (27pts - which I never want to talk about again - we were horrid and they played their best game of the year) - it's 43 points across 6 games - basically a goal. That's fantastic. I think we dropped a few that we should have won, such as GWS (ugh), but largely it has been teams who have played out of their skins to beat us, and even then, only by a goal! (i.e. the Blues - where you can argue we were failed by ARC, Port - and in particular Butters who'll poll 1000 points for that game, the Lions up there - which we nearly stole), the Bombers and to a lesser extent the Cats who overran us in the last. The competition is VERY close. But I don't think we had hit our straps in those losses yet - and that's without a conventional/real forward line. Just a cobbled together mishmash of legends chipping in. (Imagine a fully firing Roo and maybe another KPF) - Oooof BTW, if you want to compare cumulative losses for the top 5 - Pies (86/4 = 21.5), Lions (152/6 = 25.3), Port (213/6 = 35.5) and the Blues 212/8 = 26.5) - we are FAR AND AWAY the more competitive team. It takes a hell of a lot to beat us, and frankly most of the time we beat ourselves! We have a lot more experience than others (such as the Blues), and will not let those near close ones get away in the run home, or in the finals! Sorry, bit of waffle - TL;DR - I think we're travelling fairly well coming into the final 2 rounds/finals - although there is certainly room for improvement/opportunity (another forward, guys like Salem/Langdon finding form, Clarry firing, Fritter to return). I'm looking forward to finals! (more than last year, where it was clear we were hobbling to the end).

If it were likely to provoke change, this entire thread should be sent to the AFL. Would that they listened! Brilliant stuff, terrific reading. For those who can’t accept that umpiring affects results, think about the illogic of that. ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING that happens during a game is sanctioned, or not, by the umpires. Otherwise put, the game doesn’t even start, and no result is achievable without their action or inaction. If you think all W-L results are ‘perfect’, i.e. every W-L result is ‘right’, it’s saying that across their 120 minutes of decision-making, the balance of their decisions is also ‘perfect’. I hate to be conceptually pedantic, but this is nonsense. At its fundament. The fact of umpiring’s imperfection renders occasional ‘imperfect’ results. By definition. The problem with AFL umpiring (and as so many of you have rightly said it’s on THEM, not the umpires) is that it’s never been more imperfect. The question then to ask, and as you’ve all astutely outlined, there are obvious, simple solutions, is why aren’t the AFL improving what is a horrible shambles?

I will say that I felt the umpire’s positioning in the forward line of both teams was much better on the weekend. I noticed them (Chamberlain in particular) working harder to be on the boundary side of the contest and award obvious free kicks to Curnow and Smith by being correctly positioned. I think forwards and defenders rely too much on the umpires being central, so it was good to see an adjustment by the umps. Also, while we are talking about the umpires, they are dirty cheats and costs us the game. Carry on.

Goal reviews won’t get any better until improved technology is introduced and it is clear the 4 field umpire system needs tweaking. There appears no coordination between them. The 4th umpire needs to be an experienced full time master umpire who follows the action but does not make ordinary flow of play decisions. However he needs to have the authority over the other 3 and can overturn decisions, step in when a clear infringement is missed and directs the other umpires on interpretation as the game develops. Like an orchestra conductor to keep musicians synchronised and in lockstep.

Cutting edge technology clearly being used by the AFL

Just because they are humans doesn't mean that the industry as a whole shouldn't expect some degree of professionalism and performance. If they are not good enough to adjudicate the game fairly and consistently then they shouldn't be awarded games. The AFL should develop full time umpires.

Another shout out to the Demon Army, cheered their tails off in a 68,000 crowd with mostly Blues fans. Their presence at the city end didn't go unnoticed.

I actually never get past the first winery.

Plenty of threads on the internet to bash umpires. They are humans, there will be different interpretations, and everyone is always going to be cross with them. Umpires are never the reason a team loses and they certainly were not the reason we lost on Saturday.

Thanks Jaded. Of course I'll stick around I'd just had enough last night and some of the non footy related smut was too much for me. I was also told yesterday that my relationship with footy was getting unhealthy and having an effect on people close. Bit embarrassing to go into more detail here. I will say that there's also people one here that get unfairly brushed with the negative tag when really a lot of them are very well rounded footy fans.

Watched the Casey game yesterday with @binman, and needless to say, in the gorgeous sunshine falling onto a perfectly grassed Princes Park, we (by which I mean he) had happy solutions for all the chinks in the Dees armour, all despite Casey falling frustratingly short (poor goal conversion in the last was the killer). So listen in to the podcast, Demonlanders, between @Demonland Andy’s MFCSS in flux, @george_on_the_outer’s rational wisdom, and positive binners happy contextualising, it’s gonna be a CRACKER! By the by, Harry Petty was there in his moonboot. I doubt he’s had surgery yet. They’ll be waiting for the acute foot to settle, making for a less irritable reaction post-surgery. He looked relaxed and happy, as did Max. Charlie Spargo was another level yesterday, ran all day, and more than anyone else gave Casey its best looks at a win. Tommo dominant down back as always.