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Brown was very good against Sydney, kicked goals, set one up for McDonald with a delightful block. I don't understand why people want to write him off based on one average game against Carlton in conditions that didn't suit him. He went back to the VFL and had a rubbish game but is a proven commodity. If we bring him back and it doesn't work over a couple of weeks either go with one less tall, pick Mitch or reinvestigate Weid after a few reserves games, but whatever he does it will be better than what we got yesterday. Weid's confidence is shot, which is no good for him but we're trying to consolidate a top four spot we can't keep waiting for him.

Brown can come in off training form, the fact there is no VFL is not an excuse for not picking players to come in. That’s really ridiculous if you take that to the logical conclusion that no one can get a call up without first playing VFL. I wouldn’t hesitate. And the way some Dees fans waive away Brown’s recent history in the Coleman race and yet call back to one game of Weideman three years ago is cognitive dissonance of the highest calibre - you have to try hard to be so obtuse…

Picket I’m sure your ability to slurp booze and keep the social club alive had something to do with it!

I think the worst category is a loss before the bye. An extra week to wallow before the chance of redemption

Couldn’t be bothered

I've said before, but Weed's lack of intensity and intent is a big problem for him. So when he has a game like yesterday (minus three meters gained!) it looks, if that is the right word, even worse. If he had kicked 3 goals his lack of intensity is less of an issue. But he didn't. There were any number of examples yesterday, not least his inability to bat least halve some of those marking contests he just didn't impact. But the example that really stood out to me was very late in the game, perhaps two minutes to go. We had a very, very slim chance of still winning as we were 2 goals down. But a slim chance, is still a chance. Weed was manning the mark 15 meters from our goals (i forget which player). To have any chance of winning we needed to force a turnover from that kick. The pies player held the ball until the play on was called. Weed showed a complete lack of intensity, remarkable in the circumstances, and allowed the pies player to hold the ball for a bit after play on was called and get an unpressured kick long down the line. Weed should have been jumping up and down and sprinted at the pies player as soon as play on was called. Unforgivable I wonder if it is possible for a player to develop intensity. I suspect it is, to some degree. For example i reckon Fritter has show much more intensity in the last few weeks. And i also wonder if weeds lack of intensity is a manifestation of something psychological (eg fear of failure, worrying about his position etc.) as opposed to a lack of interest. Perhaps if he can get himself more aroused/intense when he plays the other stuff will be improved. Talk of him being traded is premature. There is still time for him to become the player his potential suggests he could. I really hope he can, and have faith, albeit diminishing, that that he can. But he has to get the psychological aspect right.

He kicked 5 goals in his first three games back from a long injury break and it’s now come out that his body wasn’t ready. If he can bag 5 when his body isn’t right and he’s still get used to the team, I’d love to see what he can do when his body is right and he’s settled with the team.

Dogs win: we drop to 2nd BUT remain 2 games clear of 3rd spot. Cats win: we remain 1st BUT just 1 game clear of 3rd. Dogs for mine.

So I’m assuming you turned off against Brisbane after 5 minutes? In case you’re curious we won that game quite easily in the end. Shame you missed it. This forum is a shambles after a loss. Get a grip. We aren’t going to win every game. We played at about 50% capacity and got beaten by 2 goals.

I'm sorry, but this thread promotes mistrust; therefore it's negative to our cause. We've got a great team with gun players, we should be backing them all the way to the flag!!

To me the BBB vs Weid comparison at VFL level performance somewhat distorts the picture. I think it's far more representative to look at their respective performances at senior level. Weid: 5 games, 3 goals. Drops marks all over the shop, doesn't get to the right places and sprays his set shots. Limited track record of producing it at the top level. BBB: 3 games, 5 goals. Doesn't look 100% with the pace of the game or to have found chemistry within the team, but still holds marks and gets to the right spots. Hardly looks like missing a set shot with signature cartoon style 100m run-up and set shot routine. During the 2017, 2018 and 2019 home and away seasons Brown finished 3rd, 2nd and 2nd in the Coleman medal and kicked a combined total of 188 goals across 66 games, the most of any player in the AFL over that time period. Best individual effort in a game 10 goals. I known some of his VFL form has been underwhelming, but there are some players that don't perform as well at VFL level, compared to the seniors and perhaps BBB is one of those. If there is a player we would want to be getting right and embedding into the team over the back half of the season for a serious run at finals the pointy end of the season it's BBB.

Brown hasn't been given a chance at all. One bad game and he was out. Weid has had 4 bad games enough is enough.

I don’t think that’s a fair comment. Weids played 5 games where as Brown has only played the 3, hardly a block. Brown kicked 2 against North then 3 against the Swans, he was just starting to get going when Jackson got injured. Against Carlton when both Brown and Weid played there was clearly no synergy. Weids had 4 games without Brown and his form had steadily declined.

TMac - was fully dilated Sparrow - caught too often Petty - shades of OMac Weed - over and out JJ - a consistent performer Kozzie - doesn’t do enough Goodwin - a wakeup call Chook Fowler - seriously peed off

It's a habit in my 'village' of family and friends to burn off some of the stain of a bad loss by watching some neutral football so a really disappointing loss like that without the 'plain digestive biscuits' to help settle the stomach is pretty rough. My poor wife was all but ready to call in sick she was feeling so bitter and annoyed post-game. Even as recently as a year ago she would be the one doing a bit of patient consoling and cheering up, but something has changed and now... she knows. Oh, she knows the pain of a true fan. I think this one upset her even more than the West Coast final because she wasn't so serious back then and there was the consolation that, well, it kind of made sense. She now deeply hates West Coast, Hawthorn and Collingwood. Didn't even need a particular reason to hate Hawthorn, it just happened by instinct. What a keeper.

Aside from Weideman's age. He doesn't have much going for him. Too Timid, no confidence or consistency. We aren't in a development stage anymore. The time is now. If Weid gets dropped sooks up and leaves, so be it. We need to pick the best side to trying a pinch a flag while we are in the window. Aside from the Big 4 (Rich, Hawks, Cats Eagles). Most sides only get about to years at their peak to win a flag. Get Ben Brown, Mitch Brown in. Who cares just get someone in that will have a crack!!

It is over not a senior level talent not even a good back up would rather have the other brown. He has played more good games at the bombers and us than Weideman will ever play. An early pick that has not worked. It happens to all clubs. Over and out move on.

All of Brown’s games were played in wet or poor conditions for AFL footy (maybe a bit harsh on Tassie as I think it was an OK day for once there against North). Weideman has played every game bar 1 in perfect conditions for a tall forward and still clearly inferior to Brown statistically. So Brown has kicked more goals in fewer games in poorer conditions, and has played about 5x as many good seasons as Weideman has played games. Absolutely baffling. I wanted Weid gone after the Crows game, how he’s still here doing nothing a month on has me stumped. It would be like playing OMac ahead of May in 2019.

Great first half of the season, beyond all our wildest dreams I imagine but yesterday stank of arrogance imo. The amount of players who looked disinterested and were moving at what looked like half-pace was just really disappointing. Collingwood are bog ordinary atm and are missing a host of top players. It was eerily similar to the game back in Goodies first year where they knocked us off last round to kill our finals chances. Gawn again was just really disappointing and I'm of the view that he needs to be more of a physical presence for us on-field as a captain. I listen to those guys who do the 'deebrief' podcast every now and then and I remember the host having a dig at some posters on the forum for some of the feedback posters like myself have given Gawn over the past month or so. Goes to show how differently supporters of the same club watch a game. Obviously yesterday's loss was not about Gawn per se, but I'm using him as an example because he is our captain and I just thought from the get go he did nothing to assert himself on a game that was clearly going to be hot given the week Collingwood had. Max starts in the middle and it's where he needs to make his presence felt from the first bounce. He was up against a three gamer who is 8 cm shorter than him and Max was comprehensively beaten in the first half, was marginally better in the second half. That's disgraceful as far as I'm concerned. He was moving through mud after ruck contests and on top of all of that he was missing marks again and going up when he didn't have to in our D 50. I don't care what he's done in the past, as the host of the podcast keeps banging on about. We live in the now and Gawn needs to bring his absolute best effort and attitude weekly and that includes bringing a physicality to the team that we're now lacking due to Viney being out. He plays way too nice in my view and only gets angry if a player like Nankervis starts antagonising. The best players and captains play with an edge every week and Max is almost the biggest guy on the field every week. Gawn's game was emblematic of the way our team has functioned over the last month or so, (aside from the Dogs game). When our players decide it's game on, they seem to go from zero to hero at some point within a game. But too many of them are only just going for periods of a match which is something that we need to address for the second half of the year. Obviously this is a glass half-empty lense I'm looking through, but it's a long year and I just saw some worrying signs yesterday against a really ordinary Collingwood outfit missing some of their best. Huge second half to the year coming up, I really hope Max can get some consistency going and start playing really good games weekly rather than one great game/one poor game. And bring some [censored] attitude Max. You're the captain and you get the first contest of every game. Make the most of it. I'll be watching our response with great interest against a testy bombers outfit after the bye. Go dees.

Neither of BB or Weid, 2 x KP Talls Tmac and Jackson/Gawn 1 x Medium Tall Fritsch 3 x smalls rotating through Pickett, Nibbler, Spargo, Viney Trac or Oliver can have stints forward to

I am a huge Weideman fan, but enough is enough. After the bye, Ben Brown plays for the remainder of the year.

The players preached this early in the year and that it doesn’t matter how many touches you get etc. Well ask Oliver and Trac about it again cos they are torching everyone all game. We are playing selfish crud football. Win or lose this from 3/4 time this must be stamped out over the break.

Getting in early given we don't play for another 12 days, but: In: B Brown, Viney Out: Weid, Sparrow The poor performance is very little to do with player selection and a hell of a lot to do with application.

Terrible game to watch, we lacked intensity and belief, I have nothing against the Weid but if you saw all the Pie big men they all contributed and tried their guts out. In all honesty could BBB play a worse game than the performance put in by Weid, I doubt it. We also have Mitch and Majak who would be more reliable and energetic . We now have nine weeks to sort this out. Come on Coaches get your thinking caps on you need to sort this well before finals. I don’t like to bag players but we can’t keep playing a man short.

I thought you were describing Weideman there for a while there Dr D

We scored the first 3 goals of the 3rd quarter to take the lead. I thought we would close it out from there. Even going into the last i thought we would win given our superior fitness. Alas, not to be.

Dropping BBB after only three matches was premature. It’s like, you haven’t kicked a bag of 10. On yer way fellah. Next!

And please get Viney back in the centre too! How long can a toe take to heal? Chop it off!

Agree. Gawn just seems not 100% in the ruck this year, not sure if he's carrying an injury. At least 3 times this year in close games we've gone on a run when Gawn was on the bench and Jackson in the ruck. It changes our mix. We know our struggles with clearances this year also. Also think Gawn is a better forward than Jackson and Gawn's goal kicking seems to have improved.

Nope. And neither does Collingwood, given he's fit but not playing. Actually, that's not correct: Look, I'm with you on the uncomfortable part of the loss. The Collingwood side who played yesterday was not the 2018 GF team or the dominant 2018-20 Pies side. We can't keep losing games to weak sides.

Do i trust them to win every game? No because its not possible Do i trust them to deliver a proper performance after the bye against Essendon? Yes If we deliver a consecutive poor performance i'll start to worry

And think the coaches will have a heart to heart with Kozzie in the game review. A bit too much flying for spekies, giving away frees and then that dribble goal attempt in the last when he had an option on the outside. He will learn from it.

This topic made my blood boil today! Petracca and Oliver were two of the biggest offenders. It was seriously a pathetic display from two so called leaders. They literally gave goals to Collingwood directly from not giving the first option and instead wanted to take the tackler on. This hit needs to seriously stop! If Goodwin was fair dinkum then these two idiots get a well deserved spray after the game. Take a leaf book out of Jordon, who knows his limitations and just gives to the first option that presents in front of him. Plays the team structure incredibly well.

It’s obvious the FD rate him and I can see what they see but you can’t be so bereft of confidence that you go into your shell for a month. He was backed in by the MC and Goodwin and he couldn’t get there. I remember seeing him bashful and embarrassed after the Bulldogs win and I thought to myself - ‘really? You are upset with your own performance after that win? You can’t get out of your head for 5 mins and enjoy a great team win?’ He didn’t lose me after that because I think anyone can turn it around but he has a long way to go and it may be best for all parties if we move on. We have a bonafide FF ready to take his spot and he is OOC… Cest la vie…

Flat as tacks Drank own bathwater not enough running Too much Hollywood Haven’t achieved yet Wake up call Dont do again Always bring best Always be closing

No I think that was the 3 word analysis. Perfectly summed up our performance in 3 words. I don't think anyone could argue with you this week 'joeboy'...

I'll go for the two positives for me and it was Jackson and Jordon. Jackson was the only forward willing to apply any pressure and was rewarded for that run down tackle. His around the ground work is phenomenal. Jordon played 56% game time and cracked in with 23 disposals at 84% disposal efficiency. He played team first football and not this junk Hollywood crap Oliver and Petracca were dishing up.

Good to have confirmation that PF is Damian Barrett. I had suspected for a while

Ben Brown holds marks and makes the opposition nervous. Weiderman does not. Tmac also plays better with B.Brown then he does Weiderman

Do anything about what? We got to 11-1 by implementing a gameplan and structure and following it. We're not about to throw the magnets around. He correctly put the onus on the players to right the ship, which they'd done vs Hawthorn and North, but this time it didn't happen. Not Goodwin's fault, and not lost at selection either.

B Brown may not have set the world on fire in his three games but if he got dropped after the form he showed, Weideman must be dropped now too. 0 marks, 0 kicks, 1 tackle. The lack of goals is bad enough but it's the lack of contest. Brought the ball to ground once I think, and only because he was so far behind he had to spoil rather than try to mark. Outworked in the air, non-existent on the ground. It's time for us to make the switch and plan for and play with a TMac/B Brown forward line from here on.