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Thanks Kenty. I find as I get older surrounded by death not too many people miss me. Even during my recent stay in hospital, the pretty nurses (yes, there are a few) ignored my ripping physique and special attributes and looked shocked when I told them my birthdate. My Caribbean nurse simply refused to believe that I took no medication. Strangely she did not ask me about hard liquor! When I ask today’s youth whether they have read any Hemingway, firstly, they ask who the hell is Hemingway, or, secondly, they sometimes have a vague idea and immediately Google the name on their smart phones, and tell me that they only read stuff on the net, and then nothing more than a few sentences. They appear to skim over anything more than two paragraphs. They also favour 15 minute quarters and T20 cricket. They tell me that watching Test Cricket and reading books is as boring as watching grass grow. Sadly attention spans and standards are dropping every year as more and more people seem to have acquired ADHD and are prone to control and manipulation by those with power and money. The evil doers who are multiplying every day. I have also tired of posters on this site attempting to one-up others for reasons that are beyond me. Is it simply ego or are they merely downtrodden types that no one listens to in real life? So that in this delusional vacuum known as social media and Demonland, they are under the strange belief that their opinions are important and valued. Poor souls. However, I find humour in many posts and also find value in the better informed scholars of the game that know much more than I do about what’s going on. I fluctuate between a crazy emotional state of thinking that footy, most importantly and solely that the MFC is important in my life still knowing that I will descend to hell before we win a flag ( there is something slightly meaningful about maintaining loyalty in the face of never ending failure). Continuity in suffering is one of life’s realities that feed my melancholy and allows one to reflect on the futility of human life and the futility of watching the Demons each week with this crazy feeling of hope. Anyway, thanks Kenty, it’s nice to be remembered despite the realisation that the sands of time will soon cover any traces of my existence in this broken world. A world increasingly peopled by fools, opportunists and snake oil salesmen (and women) who only want to look at their own reflection in the mirror. Returning to smart phones, Its a worry, when the medical staff of one of our best hospitals have to resort to google to provide answers and information on my maladies!

With all the [censored] he cops from all and sundry, I can't say that I blame him for keeping a low profile. Maybe some of his detractors could take up the baton and provide some training reports?

He's an extremely driven and proud bloke, Melbourne floating him in a trade and no takers would be totally driving him

Might be time for Demonland to advertise for a foreign correspondent to be embedded in deepest Cranbourne for the next year. We can send in survival packages of Seven Seeds coffee, craft beers and a cheese platter each month along with a copy of The Red Fox for guidance should their stoicism start to crumble at any point.

Thought I'd watch a half and make some notes 39:20 JB - clever tackle to cause turnover that leads to shot on goal (will need to work on strength/technique) 40:30 BL - beautiful step and hands to get out of trouble, then follow up and creative handball (but a little soft) to spring Macrae 42: 10 JB - hunts forward to tackle, play bounces around and back towards him and he doesn't overcommit, snaffles a turnover, wears a tackle and dishes to the runner who misses 42:40 BL - ball goes out of bounds, Laurie attempts a crafty flick over -sign that he's thinking 42: 44 BL - sneaks ahead of his man for an intercept, but fumbles and can't win back the ground ball 46:55 JB - doesn't overly attack the drop of the ball - which seems consistent - but is quick to tackle and force a contest 47:10 JB - misses an incoming kick, possibly confused with a team mate? follows up but quickly tackled 47:25 BL - attempts and fails to push his man under the ball 49:25 BL - ignored by multiple team mates, misses a tackle after the turnover 51: 22 JB - first man to support at a contest on the wing, gets the handball and nicely releases to a team mate in space 53: 05 BL - clever gather and quick hands 54: 05 BL - staying up at a stoppage swoops on to a loose ball but Noah Anderson is already on it! 56: 05 BL - breaks nicely in to space but his team mate doesn't use him 56: 20 BL - protects the drop of the ball nicely but drops a mark ?pushed/ ?sun in his eyes? 56: 55 BL - gets beaten to it by his man at the stoppage (Butler, bulldogs draft pick '19) 57: 02 JB - zooms from the stoppage to half forward but then only forces a fumble, could've won the ball or tapped it on, Laurie comes in to tackle after it bounces around ---------------------- QUARTER TIME 1:07:10 JB - gathers at the stoppage, evades and releases a nice handball under pressure 1:07:50 JB - pushes up to the wing (is playing high HF), marks, steps a tackler to get corridor side, Matty Rowell has snuffed out his plan though and drops back, so he goes outside of the boot and shanks it. 50/50 if he should've taken the easy boundary option first time. After the throw in he zips on to a loose ball and gives the simple hands Bit of chasing and around the ball but nothing significant for both for a while here 1:15:35 BL - pushes up for the backline switch, fluffs the corridor kick but follows back up and gets it back to his man. More scrappy player and JB almost gets a chance, puts on some pressure and tackling 1:20: 20 BL - wins a contest with a nice bump off, steps and gives the little handball under pressure slightly behind JUH who fumbles, BL gets back on it, steps, releases a perfect handball on his left to a mate who should've scored 1:21:28 JB - snags a handball, quick hands, gets it back, quicker longer hands. 1:27:00 JB - uncontested mark, takes his time and goes long with good accuracy to the contest. Gets beat pretty easily by Anderson on the clearing kick out ---------------- HALF TIME Laurie: the step and composure in tight seems legit, he knows how to evade and where his team mates are. Unfortunately not enough of it because he's starting on the bench and deep forward and doesn't get a lot of chances. He's very quick to take off forward, he might have to be a bit less rolling of the dice at AFL level Bowey - sharp hands and knows where to run to receive the ball in space. Not overly convinced he's a forward though, he plays like he wants to be on the wing. Doesn't really hunt the drop of the ball or his tackles, more of a swooper. A few times he annoyed me with the habit of walking after the contest was over, bit of a pet peeve. 0 from 1 on difficult kicks after looking in board but I sense he's willing and able to pull the trigger.

I’m mates with someone very high up at Caulfield Grammar. Said he’s an absolute ripper who has worked his guts out to improve after getting a scholarship in year 10. Freakish skills that remind him of Caleb Daniel with how he uses the footy. Comes from a great family with great values. He also added Will Phillips will play 200 games and captain the Roos.

Josh wasn't a match winner but he played his role well and at times he had to be left out of the side for an incoming better credentialed play than him. Josh was a goer at least he battled well with 40 odd games under his belt. Thanks for your contribution Josh.

The idea of Rosman as a player is so interesting because he's big, extremely athletic but so raw. I think the comment by @Fat Tony is really telling because the scope of what he can be is much greater than most. However he does have a lot of different pathways to making it as an AFL player, especially given that he seems quite switched on. He may start being tried as a wingman, or forward, or as an intercepting defender .... or if none of that works out, as a hard running defensive tall. There are a lot of possibilities for a 6'5 running machine to make it as a footballer, regardless of the development of more conventional football skills (like kicking etc). He may become a great footballer, like premiership player Adam Goodes, or a fringe footballer, like premiership player Lewis Roberts-Thompson. Obviously Goodes is an all time HOF great and LRT was an honest toiler, the point is that they can both be part of premiership teams. It would be great to get vision of his practice game at the start of the year where he reportedly dominated. We saw the goals from it, which were all wingman/flanker style goals streaming past the play, but I'd love to see how he played aside from that.

I'm having as little success posting on Demonland as Trump's legal team are having in the US.

Want a traveling companion? But I am looking forward to the 15 quarts as opposed to quarters.

You don't see the contradiction? So Twomey 'had no idea who was going where', but you say that we were definitely into Holmes because Twomey 'seemed very strong' that we were interested? Also, this is what Twomey actually side in his phantom draft: "The Dees have been linked to Holmes for his running power and he would get a look under certain scenarios." That, according to you, 'seemed very strong'. We wanted him so desperately that he 'would get a look under certain scenarios'. Effectively you don't know. Nor do I. But I'm not claiming to either. And if you are, then you should provide at least half decent evidence. Especially since it's probably wrong. Given that several of the picks after ours were pacy forwards (like Holmes), whilst we prioritised high IQ players with elite skills (unlike Holmes) it's probably a more likely scenario that Geelong was trying to get in before they likes of GWS, Adelaide, St Kilda, Freo and Hawthorn, rather than ahead of us.

Funny you should say that. I was just watching Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom the other day. You must have forgotten the ripping out of the heart first before being lowered into the pit of fire. Hmmm.....does sound similar to supporting Melbourne. Same same. ?

Seriously, you're a very good poster but I hope you've re-considered this diatribe. There is absolutely no evidence that we rated Holmes ahead of Bowey and Laurie and the fact that our interest in Holmes (along with a number of other clubs) was in the media could easily have come from his family or his manager. We generally don't leak. The actual upshot was that Geelong were so freaked out by the possibility that we might take him with one of our picks that they paid a high price and traded their 2021 1st rounder for him. Note that we got both Bowey and Laurie for our 2021 1st rounder.

He will wear the number 43.5 then

Lewis is a quality person, end of story. Anything he can help us with in improving is welcomed. Think you will find he is doing quite well in retirement, with media work and an interest in a winery. Also, he won't be getting paid much for a part time coaching role in the off season. Having played over 300 games and in 4 premierships, puts him ahead of every player on our list.

Another crazy solution being considered is to actually apply the rules that are in place for all clubs, even Collingwood.

I sometimes wonder whether Big Business are using Smart Phones to dumb us all down so we will fit in with the Clock Work Orange world scenario......!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am one of those that reports on Casey games, and as I previously stated, there is no access into the facilities. I'd rather not waste my time just watching from a far.

Hilarious. Even Clarence Thomas couldn't find a shred of evidence to justify his usual automatic support for the Republicans. The clown car is crashing to a halt. Diaper Don's gone. All he's doing now is fleecing his befuddled followers so they can pay off his debts. His most telling quote so far: 'Oooh I love the poorly educated.'

Chuck in a bottle of DISORONNO and I'm in!

Rejected by the Supreme Court in a 9 to 0 verdict. This means that even the members of SCOTUS appointed by Trump in an attempt to stack the numbers in his favour saw this for the unmitigated BS it always was.

Time magazine hasnt been relevant for 20 years. Just another leftist propaganda rag. They gave it to Greta Thunberg last year LOL

Part Two: The Year Got Stranger Those of us who have a keen interest in the machinations of the AFL Draft were treated with a night to forget last Wednesday when treated with what seemed a never-ending extravaganza as the 18 clubs gathered to select players, exchange draft picks, pass on them and swoon over every player selected from Jamarra Ugle-Hagan who was taken by the Western Bulldogs at #1 nearly 40 minutes after the telecast began to GWS’s Jacob Wehr who’s name was called out at #59 an excruciating three plus hours later. As usual, every player drafted was a future star and a bargain and every club declared it was happy with the new additions to their lists but by that time, a large quota of viewers were in dreamland. The Melbourne Football Club declared on its website that ... “on the back of an active Trade Period, the Demons were able to capitalise on two First Round Picks, walking away with some exciting young talent.” That “active Trade Period” actually produced only one recruit in Ben Brown, the trading out of Mitch Hannan and Braydon Preuss and a movement of draft picks landing the club with two first rounders that happened to finish up being #21 and #22. Those choices —Jack Bowey and Bailey Laurie — addressed the need for speed and precise disposal of the football while the club’s third and last pick, #34, produced a speculative athlete in Fraser Rosman who played school football and only two games of NAB Under 18 League football in 2019. Like most of his Victorian counterparts, Rosman did little else of major note in this Covid ravaged state in 2020. All three of Melbourne’s selections were locals and therefore can’t be compared with the field of players from other states who were able to play and develop this year in local competitions and some of who made names for themselves against men at SANFL or WAFL level. Time will tell whether this apparent strategy produces dividends. The first two selections were already well known for their efforts as bottom agers in strongly performing teams in 2019. Bowey was a regular with the Sandringham Dragons who were early NAB Cup premiership fancies contending with eventual premier Oakleigh Chargers. The teams played an exciting Round 17 game at Avalon Airport Oval with the Chargers winning narrowly. The result was more decisive in the Preliminary Final. The Chargers with Laurie playing a significant role thrashed the Eastern Ranges in the Grand Final. Jake Bowey played his junior football with Highett FC. The smallish 175cm, 67 kg midfielder/half forward is the son of former St Kilda player Brett Bowey and is a highly skilled footballer who “won't take a backwards step.” His coach at the Sandringham Dragons, Josh Bourke says: “Internally, he could not be rated higher. (He’s a) super kid, has learned what it takes to train and play at the level. Has power. He can run quickly and jump high.” Bowey also featured in the 2019 Under 17 Curtain Raiser on Grand Final Day at the MCG. Bailey Laurie is a 180cm 78kg creative, smallish forward/midfielder from Beverley Hills with great composure who comes from the strong Caulfield Grammar system. His Oakleigh Chargers coach Leigh Clarke describes him: “He gets the game. His ability to see play and execute skills and fundamentals is as good as I’ve seen. His touch and his sense of the game is as high as I’ve seen.” Fraser Rosman is tall, athletic 194cm, 84kg with pace and endurance who can play wing or forward. He attends Wesley College and made Vic Metro’s under 16 team in 2018 but played only two games with the Dragons the following year. He was showing signs of improvement in this year’s preseason before the Covid19 restrictions put paid to the chances of a NAB Cup season. The Demons’ recruiters must have seen something for them to place him ahead of others in the running at pick #34. There is also the prospect that the strong marking Rosman will grow into a key position player further down the track. Here is some more reading on Rosman the athlete. The club finished draft night with the obligatory pick swap which enabled it to trade pick No.46 and its 2021 Fourth Round pick to the Hawks for their 2021 Third Round pick. This leaves the Demons with one second rounder and two third rounders for next year. Melbourne passed on its two remaining possible selections in the Preseason and Rookie Drafts held on Thursday. Prior to the draft, the club delisted Oscar McDonald and Josh Wagner as well as rookies Harley Bennell, Kyle Dunkley and Corey Wagner. Kade Kolodjiashnij retired after his recurring concussion injuries and the club was also able to shuffle players between the Primary and Rookie lists with Jay Lockhart going to the senior list and James Jordan and Aaron Nietschke moving to the Category A Rookie list, leaving the player lists looking like this: PRIMARY LIST: — Oskar Baker Toby Bedford Jake Bowey Angus Brayshaw Ben Brown Bayley Fritsch Max Gawn James Harmes Michael Hibberd Marty Hore Jayden Hunt Luke Jackson Neville Jetta Nathan Jones Ed Langdon Bailey Laurie Jake Lever Tom McDonald Jay Lockhart Steven May Jake Melksham Alex Neal-Bullen Clayton Oliver Christian Petracca Harrison Petty Kysaiah Kropinyeri Pickett Trent Rivers Fraser Rosman Christian Salem Charlie Spargo Joel Smith Tom Sparrow Adam Tomlinson Aaron vandenBerg Jack Viney Sam Weideman ROOKIE LIST: CATEGORY A — Mitch Brown Kade Chandler James Jordan Aaron Nietschke ROOKIE LIST: CATEGORY B — Austin Bradtke And that’s not all. The club has two vacant rookie positions which it can take in 2021 during the pre-season supplemental selection period (SSP) which runs from January 6 until March 9 or the mid-season draft tentatively scheduled for June 2. There’s also potential for another Category B rookie but one wonders whether the cost is justified in these days of Covid-induced austerity. In the week before Christmas clubs can nominate a maximum of six players being considered for the SSP to train with them from January 6 when club's senior players return. I would imagine that the Demons will be looking at an experienced ruckman in the SSP to act as a backup for Max Gawn in case of injury. There should be plenty of candidates for selection in the MSD with the NAB Cup becoming an Under 19 competition which might hopefully reveal some late bloomers from our Covid affected and very strange 2020.

according to today's hun dogs will pay treloar $3m over 5 years (avg $600k/yr) filth will pay treloar $1.5m over 5 years (avg $300k/yr) but......to help the filth's salary cap issues.... dogs will front-end some of their part of the contract and pies will back-end their part of contract the amount to front-end/back-end was not disclosed recipe for more cap issues in future for filth ?

There are definitely supporters and track watchers down Casey way (including myself), but they have the facilities closed, so you can't actually enter. *I should add, this is because the players/coaches/etc.. don't enter where patrons do, so they have no reason to open the gate to let watchers in, so they simply don't*

Re: Vic clubs getting $$$ and us getting nothing Pert explained they’re getting $$$ because they have existing facilities. Because we don’t have an existing facility and are just looking we don’t fall the category for $$$. Re: Cairns debacle - AFL booked the flights. Was out of our control. No info on whether we kicked up a fuss or whether that would have helped. Re: Lot of talk about improving consistency from quarter to quarter and week to week and improving psychological aspect to our game. These were problems identified in the club review.

@waynewussell IIRC, Wayne's done a ripping job in the past but I'm not sure if they're letting anyone in ATM

DS I don't care whether you or any other poster provide evidence of your claims re Holmes perhaps in the wash up you should also consider these matters that in your opinion "This basket case of a Club who hasn't won a flag for a million years" did around the draft preceding and up yo the night. 1. Due to some Very smart pick swapping Luke McCrae was only missed by Cwood ahead of us taking him snd he had been in discussions as the style of mid we were after But was thought to be more of a chance to go earlier. 2. For whatever reason/s it was reported that Jack Carroll would be our first selection of pick no 18. (Was I fact not taken till about in the 40's not by us even at 34) How do you explain we didn't take him? Fake news or leaking??? 3 3. Geelong yes did steal Holmes but I rather subscribe also to the theory we may have tried to divert our interest in FRASER ROSMAN with our third pick, who while the most speculative pick in the first 35 (Holmes was also relatively speculative for that matter) We shall see over the next 5:6 years who is the winner here! 4.we had been linked to JAKE BOWEY more for our third pick mainly for outside run and as a winger/forward I would say but we also went for a similar Smaller Type if not better rated snd who has a footy IQ "through the roof" in BAILEY LAURIE. Many would have thought That Carroll might be taken here or even at No 34!!.Not to be. 5. So after all your Hoo Ha and criticism I consider we did a brilliant cover up job to get the two best smalls for elite skill and disposal ( Jason Taylor made no bones we were looking for this type of player). 6. Lastly we swooped on Rosman when Carroll was still alive. Mission accomplished !!! 7. Our choices like all other draft selections are subjective And now the next years will see whether Carroll Or Holmes Shape up or our Outside smalls ( which no one can argue against on a needs Basis) and the X factor of a 194cm winger/forward are heroes famously In the Red and Blue and premiership stars to boot, ( we hope). 8. I am thrilled with our selections that's why I don't give a rats About your Over the top assertion of a half century of Mismanagement because we needed theses smart elite smalls to gry badly needed skill and movement Into a very much work in progress forward line. 9. Stop and think of the options now TALLS Ben Brown Weid Tommy Mac Jacko Mitch Brown and Rosman! MEDIUMS Trac Fritta Melky Gus Clarry Harmes Sparrow SMALLS Kossie Bedford ANB AVB Chandler/Neitshke Spargo Viney and Laurie and Bowery!! 10. In summary a Basket Case that has Mark Williams Drooling over his job ahead and former Dee YZE heroe of the 90's and early 2000"s returning plus elite fitness and performance staff is a half a GLASS FULL and not the empty basket case you Described.

He lives I believe in Richmond so I don’t think he goes to Casey. In fact it would appear no one does. We need a scribe from Casey to give us reports.

Twomey had us taking Carroll with our first pick even though we didn't even take him with our third, but yeah he knew exactly what was going on in the MFC recruiting department.

“Sources within the AFL said the league wanted to stop the possibility of such a messy outcome occurring again. One obvious solution being considered would require both clubs to verbally indicate the exact amount being paid by each club in the future years of the traded player when the trade is finalised.“ I’d say it’s incredible this doesn’t already happen but honestly the AFL quite often chooses the messiest path. Just ridiculous that this is not one of the conditions for a trade deal being finalised.

Missed it all so updates really appreciated. My favourite part was Brown mentioning Spargo as one of the players he’s looking forward to working with up forward. ✔️ for lil Spargs.

The scope on Rosman lies somewhere between Koutoufides and Joel Smith.

With the amount of footy they have missed I’d be surprised if we see any of the new draftees till 2022

Article from a coupe of weeks ago https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-draft-2020-draft-prospects-bargains-sliders-bolters-steals-afl-draft-order/news-story/54b9e4f23bc30181bef3abea090ffcae Fraser ROSMAN Clubs: Sandringham Dragons/Vic Metro Position: Utility Size: 194cm/84kg Teams that may suit: Adelaide, Essendon, Melbourne Bio: Rosman had a number of standout performances in the APS school boys competition for Wesley College last year, sneaky in for two games at the NAB League level with the Dragons. With untapped potential, Rosman could develop into a strong utility in the attacking half of the ground. He makes things happen and can catch the eye with his X-Factor and speed. He isn’t just a one trick pony given his endurance as well, marking overhead well when required. He can play deep as a tall or push up the ground to show off his athletic traits. Recruiters won’t forget some of his work in the pre-season and it was indicated when he earned a national combine invite.

Tough year coming up for the Filth and Essendrug. Good outcome for the rest of the comp.

Good gag champion.... Seriously, what sort of person puts this comment on a forum? Belittling, a human, (not even to their face) because they've given the best and the current context of an elite football club, has told their services are no longer required, because now, and finally, there are others to take his place. Like, you could have just kept it within your prejudiced household... but your need to display it publicly, is it for humour? Like a [censored] house Dad joke? Or is it to confirm with others you've never met that they agree with you that a) he was useless but really b) I wish we had more skilled players than a particular bloke we recruited with good intentions, but ill call him useless because my club disappoints me and he is an easy one to target?

Although born a Capricorn I think he self identifies as a Libran.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/leader/localfooty/nab-league/the-rapid-rise-of-sandy-dragons-dasher-fraser-rosman/news-story/5c2ca8796fe4ec6e755f1dd72ab69053 Great article if you can get past the paywall. " ...He’s got a lot of work to do, and he’d be the first to admit that, with cleaning up his skills and improving his kicking,’’ Bourke said. “But his raw athleticism is freakish and if he can learn to hit the right spots and get into space he’s going to be a really dangerous player, someone who can break lines and be capable of hitting the scoreboard. He’s got that pace and endurance.’’

Absolutely he will. He's been gifted games for 2 seasons now with very very minimal output. We need to bite the bullet and give our former champions the title of '300' seeing as we only have Neitz who has achieved that milestone, and we're the oldest football club in the world. I know it's not the right way to go about it, but at the end of the day, no one can say Jonesy didn't deserve it... winning 3 club best and fairest and leading us through our darkest times as a club.

Thanks Leo - good info and an easier read than Ulysses.

Spoke extremely well at the Members' info night. He's mature for his age and quite clearly articulate and intelligent. I was also impressed with the story that he worked incredibly hard on his fitness this year during Covid. If he can make it in football terms he will be a great asset to the club. Could well be a fan favourite!

I enjoyed the part where he did an assessment of himself being a difficult match up for opponents on the wing, considering his height, endurance and speed. Verbatim - "put a normal sized winger on me and I'll out mark them, put a bigger guy on me and I'll get them with my running/endurance/speed". Very confident young fella ?

Not a worry, I am told it will all be sorted out by the end of his contract in 2025.

The Wagner boys may not have had the love and respect of a few here on Demonland, but I think they well and truly had that from their team mates - I know what I'd rather have. I recall the podcast from AVB around the middle of the year, when asked who was just outside the 22 that was knocking on the door and with hesitation, he named Josh Wagner, basically as someone who was having a red hot crack - a few weeks later he was picked. More reciently another senior player (perhaps Max, Gus or Viney) called out the great character and team first spirit of the Wagner boys after their attitude in attendance of the B&F a few days following being let go by the club. Always had a soft spot for Josh in particular, had hoped he could develop into a good player. While I acknowledge that in the end, he wasn't quite good enough, I certainly value and respect his contribution. Even as a rookie/frindge list player, I think he bought more to the team in his time than some of the more fancied prima donnas that I've seen on a footy field. My favorite memory of him was from a close win we had against Gold Coast at the G back around 2016/2017 when we were just starting to put winning form together. He played a cracker of a game, stood under a number of incoming balls when he knew it was coming, got crunched and went again. May never have made it to superstardom, but I don't think we should dismiss the positive impact that guys like him who try their guts out week after week can have on good team culture.

Like his brother, he didn't quite have what it takes at the top level. He had hit his peak, and was always going to be no more than an occasional a 'stop-gap' in our best 22.. Simply put, one of those 'depth' players who we had to delist if we aspire to bigger things. Thanks for your service Josh ..... the AFL is a tough business.