Leaderboard

Trotting out Gawn, Oliver and May for a non-points contest doesn't really peel the skin from my banana but the cause is much greater than all of our collective concerns to be fair.

That's a story for another thread Clint, but FWIW it's the "Goodwin era" and I think the current list quality is a big part of my optimism. Here's the Northey 1988 GF team, I've added Steven O'Dwyer who was suspended in the PF for not even touching Steve Da Rui and it happened "right in front of me". He won the B&F that year and everyone walked taller when he was playing. Hawthorn still would have beaten us but it would have been a different match if Strawbs played. The team is pretty evenly strong across all lines and I think it stacks up well against the 2000 side below. B: 9 Alan Johnson 10 Danny Hughes 14 Rod Grinter HB: 34 Stephen Newport 28 Jamie Duursma 17 Brett Lovett ? 12 Todd Viney 7 Brian Wilson 8 Graeme Yeats HF: 3 Garry Lyon 5 Earl Spalding 15 David Williams F: 11 Jim Stynes 27 Sean Wight 45 Ricky Jackson Foll: 1 Steven O'Dwyer 16 Andy Lovell 33 Greg Healy (c) Int: 37 David Flintoff 21 Steven Febey 18 Steven Stretch Coach: John Northey Here's the Daniher 2000 GF team. That forward line is mighty potent, but the backline and midfield are a bit pedestrian. B: 26 Daniel Ward 27 Anthony Ingerson 44 Alistair Nicholson HB: 42 Peter Walsh 28 Matthew Collins 21 Steven Febey ? 13 Adem Yze 22 Shane Woewodin 35 Anthony McDonald HF: 18 Brad Green 5 David Schwarz 7 Stephen Powell F: 24 Russell Robertson 9 David Neitz (c) 33 Jeff Farmer Foll: 34 Jeff White 43 Guy Rigoni 36 Andrew Leoncelli Int: 4 Brent Grgic 16 Travis Johnstone 47 Ben Beams 46 Troy Simmonds Coach: Neale Daniher I think our current list is very competitive with these two lists.

I suspect kozzie will be first. Meets a desperate need (crumbling forward wirh x factor), fitness nor such a critical requirement in his position and is built like a bar fridge.

Whatever do you mean, Mr Bluth? ?

I guess that term means something different where you're from... Funny player Georgiou; massively undersized key defender, average skills, but somehow quite a good stopper. His last game was our great win at the Adelaide oval.

Full-scale telethon involving a re-creation of Ch7’s “World Of Sport”. Handball comps, wood chopping, stationary bike racing, coach’s corner with many, many Ballantyne gift packs and Patra Orange Juice Carton’s about the place.

Captaincy is overrated anyway. Without real talent and lots of it, teams will rarely, if ever, win big. The best examples in any sport are the dynasty teams - lots of talent on an ongoing basis. And that is not us. Over a 26 year stretch we contested 13 GF's and won 10 Flags but that had everything to do with talent levels - we often had more talent than the other teams so therefore we won more often. Even Smith couldn't win big with an average list ('65 - '71 - Demons & Swans) 1 solitary finals appearance in that stretch. And Smith didn't suddenly lose the ability to coach. In fact, one of his greatest achievements might have been lifting the very average Swans into the finals in 1970. But they got smashed in a SF because of a lack of real talent. The same sort of argument could be used for the Hawks with regards to their success. Since our halcyon years we've never had a great list and I'd argue we've never gone close to having a great list. Therefore, we've lost a lot of games. When we have played finals, the list quality was quite good, but never great. I reckon all our captains have done about as well as they could have done. In the one time in the last 13 years where we managed to play finals and win 2 finals, Jones & Viney were the captains. Do we give them credit for that achievement? I haven't seen it here very often. Coaching is a whole other argument but the same above principles apply in most cases. As for our current list, we look ok on paper but being good on paper will never deliver a dynasty. You have to be great in order for that to be a possibility. So the answer lies with recruiting. And since the halcyon days, we've not been very good at recruiting. If we were good at recruiting, we should have been able to create a great list in the last 50+ years (As it was from the late '30's through to the mid '60's) Of course, the zones we were handed from the early '60's through to the late 80's weren't very fruitful but since the dawn of drafting, we've still fallen well short Again, nothing to do with whoever is captain. Going right back none of Hassa Mann, Frank Davis, Stan Alves, Greg Wells, Carl Ditterich were able to captain the team into the finals whilst Flower had 7 years at the helm with only 1 year where we played finals in that time ('87) By contrast Greg Healy captained for 3 years only but we played finals in each of those 3 years ('88 - '90)

Northey was the man to drag us out of a bleak world of only three certainties: death, taxes, and Melbourne don't play in finals. Year after year after year we got to watch other clubs in finals, secure in the knowledge that we wouldn't ever be there. The brave new world where Melbourne got to play finals was something hard to believe but was very easy to get used to! Northey extracted every last bit of ability from fairly ordinary lists. So, Northey for me. Imagine Neale's lists under Northey. Like putting Lleyton Hewitt's head on Mark Philippoussos' body.

He was no champion at Melbourne but he gave it a crack. A legend at Norwood SA. Alex Georgiou – the Competitor

This is the list I have (links came with copy and paste, I didn't manually add them all!). If there are any others let me know. Bill Adams (Captain/Coach) Robin Andrew Mick Anthony Bill Atkinson Bert Avery Maurie Bartlett Art Beaumont Stephen Bickford Stuart Cameron Vin Catoggio Bert Chadwick Doug Chapman Kelvin Clarke Jim Conquest John Dellamarta Brian Dixon Rob Dowsing Jim Durnan Ken Emselle Arthur Ferguson John Forster Alf George Michael George Glenn Giles Peter Giles Lew Gough Shane Grambeau Archie Grigg Peter Hamilton Peter Hannan Ray Harvey Jack House Greg Hutchison (Captain/Coach) Dennis Jones (Coach) Ken Jungwirth Bryan Kenneally John Lord 1921-1923 (Captain/Coach) Greg Lourey Bob Love Percy Love Ian McGuinness Bob McKenzie Geoff McNaughton Shane McSpeerin Andrew Moir Vern Moore Bill Morrow David Murray Len Norman Frank O'Connor Ivan Porter Rod Payne Mike Power Billy Quinn Michael Reynolds Russell Richards Frank Richardson Howard Richardson Archie Roberts Kerry Ryan Lou Salvana Peter Sinclair Frank Smith Kim Smith Bob Spargo Robert Stewart Brian Stynes Jim Stynes Peter Thorne John Townsend Percy Tulloh Bill Tymms Barrie Vagg Peter Weekes Robin White Don Williams Gary Wynd Graeme Yeats Also worth checking out the site VFA Project, it's very rough but there's some good team lists on there.

Not really I don't understand much of what you say at all You are too argumentative ... you should let others have their say without constantly jumping at shadows However, I doubt you'll ever learn from your mistakes.

Drafting isn't flawed as such. It's a rating of talent, not a fool proof predictive tool. That is why 'talent' will never overtake development, coaching and culture as the key ingredient in a premiership. Were the Bulldogs of 2016 the most talented team in the AFL? Hardly. And I don't understand how you can say "drafting is flawed" and 'talent on a list can be overrated' whilst still maintaining talent is king? Seems inconsistent to me. We had the number 1 rated list in the comp last year. Judged by the premier sporting statistical agency using in-depth methods. I don't mean to pick, but I think they would have a better method for determining such a thing than 'Macca from Demonland'. While I agree that often coaches can cop an unbalanced amount of blame for poor performing teams, if you watched the game comprehensively over the last 30 years you just simply could not devalue the importance of good coaching. Maybe you're from the glory days where the coaches job was to bench players and give half time rev ups, but they control so much of what happens now compared to them. 'Soldier in, soldier out' and 'play your role'. How many times do you hear that from the successful teams now? Talent is not the main reason we have not won big. It's a far too simplistic look at the situation that the MFC has been in.

Surely out of all teams' supporters WE should have learned that talent isn't the be all and end all. I don't want to open the 'development' can of worms again, but to suggest talent is the only factor seems pretty strange IMO. Sure it's not an exact science, but we were rated as the most talented side in the comp last year, and how did that end? And if you look at the premiership history of the AFL, it's not the most talented team that wins it every year.

Great work Macca, and while I agree with all you say, I would add that in agreeing with the statement "captaincy is overrated" I would add that leadership is not. Leaders are not always appointed or elected but often emerge. I can't provide supporting references without a lot of research through my library of HR, business and management sources, but I assure you my own experiences verify that conclusion. i would imagine that the examples you provide would identify a leader or lack thereof in every circumstance. The difficulty that this organic emergence created combined with the diversity of circumstances that require leadership may have had something to do with the multi structure models that were promoted for business and political purposes. Control and command models which are again being promoted in the current bushfire situation and embraced by politians to justify their existence can be fine and n some circumstances but are restricting in others. Still the considerations of these models will continue and it will be interesting to see how MFC deal with this. Good discussion starter.

People that take the time to read an article, then come back to DL to proclaim its a fluff piece that they weren't interested in are very strange and clearly need a hobby Happy to have Richo on board, if only that he knew how to beat us in recent times. I'll take the insights in to that any day of the week.

The only poster beating their chest around here is yourself, chill pill bruh.

I agree with the views that Northey got the best out of some very workmanlike players and also that 1990 was an opportunity wasted. Against WC we were just never on our game. But the biggest waste of all was 1994 when Balme had us overusing the ball with a terrible game style and a great team ended up in 7th place. We then thrashed Carlton who were 1or 2 as I remember. We had the Febeys, ,Schwarz,Lyon, Tingay, Neitz and so many others, all at the top of their game and injury-free. But because of our ladder position we ended up having to play WC in Perth..... The greatest waste ever.

We were definitely too cocky and arrogant in 1990 against WC. As keeps on happening for us when the media pumps up our tires we fall in hole. Everyone was saying there’s no way WC could beat us. We had an undisciplined and lazy start, were jumped early, game totally lost at half time and played catch up footy for the remainder of the game but never got close. For those who are too young to remember that game was eerily similar to the round 23 debacle against Collingwood in 2017. As for the the comparison between the Northey and Daniher eras, Northey wins hands down. He was remarkably consistent with a workman like list that in many ways over achieved. Daniher had better talent but inconsistent year to year results. It was the “Hollywood” golden era for us with too many easily satisfied players.

Everyone talks about the 1987 finals series and how special it was, but nobody talks about the 88 series. We beat WC in a thrilling finish at Waverley. We beat second place Collingwood in front of 88,000 at the G, by 13 points but we were in control all day. We also beat the reigning premiers Carlton by 22 points in the prelim to right the wrongs of the previous year's disaster to make our first GF in 23 years! Nobody ever refers to this game, but it must have been extremely satisfying at the time. We won 3 finals in 1988 which is the most ever in an MFC finals series since 1964. We haven’t replicated it since. IMO, everyone only thinks of 1988 as the GF disaster but we certainly had some memorable wins in the lead up.

I don't need a 'gimmicky' football game to motivate me to contribute to a worthy cause. Thanks to the outstanding work of the NSW RFS, and a decent slice of good fortune, our tiny property in the Snowy Mountains is still intact (albeit surrounded by miles of gut-wrenching desolation). Sadly, there are many thousands who are far less fortunate!

Rance has cancelled his retirement and is heading to Dream Team HQ.

Northey came to the club at the end of the Barassi era and inherited a group of emerging u19 players such as Greg Healey, Yeats, Newport, Bailey and others who had played together as a group under Slug Jordan. He added recruits Spalding, Viney, Dean and Lovett (from Dorks) and changed the structure of the team. At the beginning of 1987 our best half back line was R, White Icke Giles. By the end of the year it was Lovett Spalding Grinter. That change alone made a colossal difference. Neale arrived in 1998 and was blessed by the return from several injury affected seasons injury of Lyon, Tingay, Schwarz, G Lovett and the drafting of White and Johnstone. He did well until he was comprehensively out coached in the preliminary final by Pagan. His reluctance to play Stynes and White on the ground at the same time arguably cost us the game. Thereafter while we made finals we never competitive. Northey coached finasl for five consecutive years, Neale coached finals 6 years out of 9. Each had a very slim chance in a GF but 1990 under Northey still hurts. Neale probably had the better list but did less to develop them and left a lesser legacy for his succesor. Balme got us into finals after only 2 years after Northey whereas it took 12 years after Neale. That Neale is still with us is a comfort. Blessings.

WHy dont the AFL just donate just donate the money themselves, god knows they have enough. WHy dont the just get the millions from Marvel/Disney? This game would be a bad idea and is not needed.

I was fortunate enough to witness the stirring run home in 1987 - 6 in a row and relying on others to lose. Northey was a terrific coach who extracted everything from his group. 1990 we were the best team in the comp but unfortunately we had a shocker against North and lost by 127 points which cost us percentage and the double chance. We won 16 games and finished 4th. We beat top side Essendon twice including at Windy Hill and beat Hawthorn in consecutive weeks including the Elimination Final to end their run of consecutive GF's which stretched from 1983-89. We were the only team that could really trouble Collingwood - we had knocked them out of the 1988 and 89 finals series- yet inexplicably got rolled by WC at Waverley in the first semi. There went Northey's best hope of landing us a flag. Daniher did a great job in 1998 and we were capable of beating anyone. In fact we rolled the eventual premier in the first final of that year under the "old" final 8 system. 2000 we were never a chance against Essendon but it was nice to make the GF because it meant Carlton didn't! For me, I'd go for Northey - 5 successive years of finals with at least one win in each of those series. Other teams feared and respected us and of all the Victorian teams over the period 87-91 we had the best record against Hawthorn - no mean feat in that era.

A work colleague was shaking his head and upset early last year and I asked him what was the problem. He is of Macedonian descent and he said problems in the homeland and renaming of Macedonia. I asked when the problems started and he said "Recently? 1821"....

Some off-season musing ... We haven't had much to write home about since 1964, but we have had two moderately successful eras under John Northey 1986-1992 and Neale Daniher 1998-2007. Which one do you think was better and which had the stronger team? FTR, I expect the Goodwin era to eclipse both and deliver a flag.

I thought he was offered another year but he declined to go home and earn much better money with a job as an engineer or something? I vaguely remember reading something about him saying he set himself the challenge to play top level and he was happy with what he achieved. I also remember the Uber Alex Georgiou Facebook page was a bit funny

Ah yes. I remember that. Perhaps should've just gone as his doppelganger Mr Bean.

My guess is readin' isn't one of your strong points.

Dwayne's goal should be to shut up for five seconds.

True, it's all very unpredictable. I was trying to figure out what we'll need to do for a top 3 conference finish and I kept ending up with different teams in the top 3! I have a sneaking suspicion about the Saints... Possibly we could put Daisy in Smith's place? It'd be a real luxury to ease her in mainly behind the ball. I'll get down to training soon to get a better idea of where we're at and what the ruck plan is. And figure who's who of the new players.

Not really. Very flaky finals performances after 2000. Flakiness was never an issue with northey teams.

Good riddance One more time waster gone

No they didn't because they were rating talent, and talent doesn't guarantee performance. See what I'm saying?

Rivers attracts my attention, as well. Jackson also could be a forward asset and part-time ruck in the area.

So we play 6 days prior (Crows at Casey) and 1 week after (Hawks in Launceston). Our players picked to play in this - which is probably only going to be 2 in Gawn and Oliver - might skip or play a half in first preseason game and then be fine to play in our final hit out. Gawn gets some work in against Grundy at a lesser intensity. Oliver and any other mids gets a look at the best. Preuss, Jackson, key forwards get to push their case for round 1 and more game time for the young mids too. Don’t mind it from a football perspective. Whether it will be a game worth watching and good for charity is another discussion.

Try telling the players they cannot play, for this occasion.

"Champion Data have rated Melbourne’s list as the best in the AFL. And if you look across every line it’s clear to see why." Melbourne Demons’ best 22 for 2019: The list every team will be out to beat

They effectively killed the AFLX format last year with the ridiculous format and promo style. A pity because as you say a cause like this could have been an excellent opportunity to promote and legitimize the format in the minds of the public.

While I agree there can be an overstating of the importance of the draft, it's literally the most "talented" players in the country in order. Kinda goes against your argument that talent is king tbh.

Surely the AFL, players and fans can just donate to the cause without having to hold a watered down state of origin game.

The original measure was borrowed from Collingwood

They AfL giving away some of their money. Surely you jest. Hell will freeze over first.

great topic for discussion. l went into the rooms after our win against Footscray in 87 to make the finals and got Robbie flowers signature on my record. my favorite day at the footy. exhilarating finals series' under northey. who would have thought Dean Chiron could play a role against platten, but northey could get them playing out of their skin despite having less talent then the daniher era

Think both were really good era's, with both having their strengths and weaknesses. Running into 2 of the best teams in history in Hawks 88 and Bombers 00, made things difficult. 87 was our best chance under Swooper and we were on a roll, but had we got through similar to the 2018 prelim we may have run our race, Robbie Flower and Brian Wilson would have both been out, 10 previous weeks ( including H & A + finals) and a warm day with the Blues having the weeks rest may have been a bridge to far 98 IMO was Dannihers best side with the mix of experience and youth, we were flying early in the finals and the old finals system didn't do us any favours, because I reckon going into finals with our form ourselves and North were the 2 best sides going in. I would have fancied us against them week 1 of the finals but Jeff White's injury didn't help for the Prelim. Danners sides from 2000-06 just lacked key defenders and from 02-06 we paid for poor end of season runs costing us double chances

I'm really annoyed about that. Particularly Kat Smith who I really rate the way she goes about it. I also think Lauren Pearce is right up amongst our most important players. It's going to be a hard start to the season for them but in the end the AFLW game is still 'young' and variable enough that whoever conditions best, trains best and wants it most on the day will get the wins.

We will miss Smith. A very reliable player.

I hardly missed a pre season session, most of the ops were upper body, so the running, aerobic fitness didn't lack Towards the end of pre season most were back in the main group and looking good My opinion, the lack of a 'proper' preseason became an excuse that got repeated so often, it became fact, and an out for a non.performing player Other 'reporters' would have reported exactly the same thing, apart from the occasional skill error to give Demonland something to hang their hat on My opinion the issue was mental and too many voices and messages trying to right the ship