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I would hate to be someone from the MFC reading this forum and what has been spoken about since the end of the season. For far too long we have been accused of being a club that sits on it's hands, does nothing aggressive during trade time and gets bent over at the trade table. Yet since the end of the 2019 '[censored]' season, the club has brought in Richardson, Burgess, Brukner, the dude from the Dolphins, outside run in Tomlinson and Langdon, took a risk on Bennell, invited a semi-proven forward in Mitch Brown to the club, shifted their position in this years' draft considerably for the positive and yet, you STILL have the nerve to bag the club for what they are not doing. Bloody hell! I am pumped to see the club take chances, admit fault, bring in a fresh perspective and potentially get us back to finals in 2020. There is no way in hell you would cop the level of criticism and negativity in your role as this club does. Sometime it feels like a whingefest and sooky la-la session and it's time to look at the glass half full. Because I have no doubt in my mind whatsoever that not if but when we rise back up the ladder all you backstabbers will the first one to start back-patting like the tweed coated MCC do!

Some thoughts... If Melbourne rate Jackson over Green then why would they bid on Green and potentially lose Jackson to the Giants, who it's believed won't match the bid ? You may not agree with Taylor and co's player rankings, but if they want Jackson they can't bid on Green. It's just common sense. Others are worried by Jackson's height. He's 18 years old and two months. He plays virtually all of next year as an 18 year old (Sept. 21). Is it unlikely he grows another 2-3cm before he's finished ? Someone questioned his leaping ability. And he's got a great leap. He can really get over the top of them (opponents)... Peter Sumich From another - With a strong leap, competitive instincts, an ability to mark and also find the ball around the ground... Others are saying he's not worth pick 3. Pick 8 maybe, but not pick 3. My answer to that is that the Giants will take him at pick 4. How can he not be worth pick 3 if shrewd recruiters like the Giants will take him at pick 4 and overlook their academy young gun Green with Jackson as their preference ? If he's worth pick 4 in the view of the Giants why isn't he worth pick 3 ? Once again, let's talk common sense. I'm not fussed if you don't want Jackson and I'm not trying to ''convince'' anyone as to his merits, but some of the stuff being said doesn't make sense.

Im just p1ssed off I now have to read another 20 odd draft profiles on who might be available at 28.

Pick 28 is not a free hit! To get 8 we gave up 26 and 50 from 2019 and our 2020 first. We have now swapped it for 28, and Freo's 2020 fourth ie 55 to 72. We have actually downgraded 26 to 28 and 50 to next year and swapped next years first for this year's #10. Its an ok deal but not something to write home about.

This swap has been in the pipeline for a while. We will pick Jackson, then whoever slides to 10 (I don’t think it is weightman who they want), have heard it may be Stephens, and they are wanting Pickett, they really, really like him. I would suggest we may need to do something to get pick 28 a bit lower to get Pickett though. Also heard De Koning has been spoken about. Super tall but plays tall back at the moment but has played as an onballer in juniors!

This thread is a touch sanctimonious methinks. Fans love to vent, and for good reason.

My only concern is that if we decide to not bid on Green and a bid for Henry doesn't come in before 7, then the top 10 is diluted with GWS and Freo getting to pick an extra two players before our pick comes around. I'm sure the club has factored this into their equation and have some certainty of what players will be available at "10". That being said its; 3, 8 and 97 or 3, 10, 28. We have improved our position significantly. Another way to look at it is we started our draft position with 3, 22, 40. That has since moved to 3, 10, 28, + Langdon. While we've lost Frost, and a Future first plus later picks we were never going to use at the draft. Essentially a 6 spot downgrade for Langdon, then a future 1st and 40 for pick 10. We only plan to use 3 picks this draft so we've done ok to improve our position.

Yep, let's stick to the footy please. People are sick of training threads being derailed by the same petty personal arguments, over and over. We're lucky to have multiple track-watchers filling reports. If you don't like a person's content, put them on ignore. Posts which bait or critique other posters (or the site) will be deleted, and bans handed out. First and final warning to all.

I don't believe I am overly negative. Both were as responses to other people and not from my direct report. First with Angus. Many have come back to training in ripper condition. Mostly those who have, had an interrupted season. What's so bad about being a bit under done at the start of preseason. He will get the boxes ticked, as they say. Also, means he has a bit of a life out of sport, which gives him a clear advantage in his mental health. As well as giving his body a break from peak hormones and pushing the physical edge. I expect and hope most of them to come back under done, for their sanity and a better physical state. So I don't get your overreaction at it being a negative when I suggest that he is underdone. Have you done much training in your life? I am nearly 60 and playing some modified AFL and soccer. Also, overweight but that comes from not being able to enjoy physicality as regularly as I wish due to body pains and that I enjoy food. Will give any sport a go, have had heavy training schedules and have constantly played all of my life. So I have a fair understanding of my own body and it's needs. With Toby, I was chatting to DeeSpencer about the need for technique and repetitions in training, and he used him as an example. So I jumped on Tobys boat as I saw him struggling with the pressures that heavy scrutiny brings. To suggest that I'm falling into 'negativity' because I respond to others in an open forum! What's wrong with criticism anyhow, you do it. I f you're such a positive human why use accusation towards me, bollocks, par for the course on this site and calling me negative. Practice what you preach and be a ray of sunshine not only to MFC insiders but to the wider community. If you can't walk the walk, past your selectivity then mate please don't throw your testicles about. Unless, you are trying to offend. Then well done. We are what we perceive in others, because if we didn't experience it is hard to recognise it.

Hoping to split pick 8 into 10+22. Take Young/Jackson at 3. We could then use 10 to grab whoever is left out of Kemp, Serong, Stephens, Ash etc. 22 can then be used on a small forward such as Weightman, Taylor or Pickett. A combination of those 3 players being added to the list would be a great draft period for us. Add Langdon, Tomlinson and Bennell, and it's a good off-season!

After 50 years of practise sue you would think they would be experts.

Or maybe the proof of the pudding will be in the eating as the saying really goes.

I agree with almost everything you say in the above However it is a fan site and as such you will get a number of different views on every subject. Just roll with the blows that is the way life is. AS for the MFC reading Demonland I seriously doubt that anyone reads the site and the few that may would instantly discard anything they don't agree with. I firmly believe that what is written here has no effect on how the MFC perform on match day.

Reads like an autumn weather forecast

May has been a disaster. Bring back Frost

I think you are getting caught up in the veil of negativity that pervades this site I would be very disappointed if Goodwin wasn't [censored] off with a dropped mark To single a guy out in his second year and first full pre season was I thought poor form I think with a full pre season under his belt, he coukd be challenging for a spot, along with many others I was more concerned with the sitter James Harmes put down, NOT it's pre season And even if Mahoney says the 17 ops last year are reasons, I still think they are excuses 3 of the op guys came in the top 5 of the B&F, what does that say about the rest And Brayshaw is fine

I think Jackson is 100% locked in at 3. We won't bid on Green just to spite GWS and risk losing him, it's just not the way we operate and for good reason. Focus on your own side not what others are doing. This guy has the potential to be the best ruck/kpf in the comp and could potentially be similar to a Buddy with his elite speed and athleticism. I'm also still of the belief the deal of 8 for 10 + 22 (potentially we may have to flick a late pick next year back) will 100% go ahead, because it just makes sense or both sides. Freo will know there's a high possibility us or Carlton will bid on Liam Henry at pick 8 or 9, so why not move up to 8 and essentially guarantee yourself 3 players in the top 15 of the draft. Pick 22 doesn't matter to them because even if they don't do the deal and Henry isn't bid on, the outcome is still the same (pick 7, Pick 10 and Henry). My ideal draft would be: 3. Luke Jackson 10. Lachie Ash (assumes Young is gone) 22. Kysaih Pickett (assumes Weightman is gone)

Dumb trade. WiIll miss out on Brodie Kemp now. Pick 28, whoope doo

If organisations can’t cop criticism ( even it’s unreasonable) then said organisations are [censored]

You must be living in a cocoon... You want to hear what other clubs say about their teams/coaches etc. We are mild compared... Criticism is the new black for most everything in life these days. ...and you are adding to it with this post. Criticising the critics... I think we've done pretty well in the off season to by the way.

And we probably won't use Freo's 2020 pick 55-72 But we still effectively downgraded 26 to 28 in the trade. Not wanting to make a big deal of it but some posters keep thinking 28 is a free hit. It isn't.

Picket, we need to consider why so many “experts “ are saying this kid is so special and could in fact now be rated at number 2. We need to consider why it is being suggested that if we nominate Green, GWS won’t match and will take Jackson. Are GWS recruiters idiots too? We need to consider why it has been stated that if Crows kept 4 and Jackson got to 4 they would take him. Are Crows recruiters idiots too? We need to consider that our recruiters would have looked at all the negatives, like DL’s have and despite them, feel that his positives outweigh those negatives easily. Also that they see him as a special talent, possibly rarely a chance to be attainable by us and good enough to bypass other more “safe” selections, like Green and Young. Further that they have conducted this process using experienced people over many months, maybe even years. We need to consider that maybe they see him solving our much needed extra key forward role and later developing as Max’s understudy, filling our most needed holes, other than small forward which is easier to fill with later picks or trades in the future. Lastly we need to consider that maybe Taylor and co know more about the potential draftees than we at DL do, highly unlikely of course but just maybe.

Local boy too, went to Hallam SC, always good to have some young kids come back from the area and get involved. Was rated a bit during his draft year as well. Will run through the mids it seems which is good for Casey.

I've seen barely a handful of people on DL say we didn't have an interrupted pre-season. Quite the contrary. Many just take a more balanced view. The charts Mahoney put up on injuries were but a part of a much bigger picture. So one needs to be careful of overstating their impact. The changes made off-field are recognition by the club that it wasn't just injuries/surgeries. Recognition that there were problems in many parts of our football activities. The other slides show what the club has addressed. The ones that stood out to me were (in no particular order): Coaching structure. The structure is excellent (albeit I'm not convinced of all the people in the roles). It will do a great deal for strategies/tactics, clear, un-conflicted communication to players, their roles and for their development. In turn this will help with, among other things, ball movement and reduce the confusion and loss of confidence we saw later in the season. Improved player role understanding that comes from the first item and other initiatives will be significant for the success of the game plan. Mahoney referred to the way Richmond players know their role and play their role. I got the impression we need to do better teaching. Football data analysis and meaningful presentation to coaches for strategies and tactics. Well being program not just for players but club wide Greater investment into medical and fitness Change of emphasis on recruiting Revisit aspects of the game plan. These weren't just powerpoint 'words' to appease fans at the forum. The club has been very thorough in its club review and taken action on each and every one and has programs in place. All credit to them. Some people still think our 17th position was due to surgeries and injuries while making mere passing reference to 'other issues'. By its actions the club is saying that injuries/surgeries were significant but there were bigger issues at play as evidenced by the overhaul I've summarised above. In fact, Mahoney and Goodwin virtually said we dropped the ball. Making the prelim had people (club, players, coaches) thinking it was just a few steps to a GF and then perhaps a premiership. This caused the club to lose sight of the 'fundamentals' (their word). My description of that while it might be provocative, is 'hubris'. Goodwin mentioned that after round 22 they did a 'dump' (his word) with the players where they laid everything on the table. You can bet the players and coaches weren't blaming injuries/surgeries for being 17th. I think its time fans move on from believing injuries/surgeries were the problem in 2019. The other issues collectively were much much bigger otherwise the club wouldn't be changing so much of its operations.

On Greg Stafford being the goal kicking coach: As a player, he had a conversion rate in the ballpark of those of Lockett and Lloyd, and a superior conversion rate to Richardson, Dunstall and Franklin. And we're talking about a guy who played 204 AFL games for 141 goals, including 5 hauls of 4 goals (4.1, 4.0, 4.0, 4.1 and 4.2) playing as a ruckman - we're not talking about a 5 game wonder. He is a professional coach that has been kicking around for years, who has had Max Gawn under his wing forever. He obviously knows how to coach. If anyone still wants to challenge his credentials as a goal kicking coach, I'm interested to know why.

They see Jackson as a forward to start with, and actually as another onballer! At this tags they don’t see him as a ruck at all really, especially with Gawn there, he would just go in for a few minutes here and there.

Seems like a nice kid. Hope he makes it. *I hope they all make it

Elijah Taylor should still be there pick #28 unless we look at upgrading in the 20s throwing in Blues 4th rounder

I would just add if they think green is best available then nominate him if they think jackson is best available then nominate him if they think green and jackson are pretty equal on best available then nominate whichever fits their needs best shafting GWS should have nothing to with it for pick3

First big test for Burgess IMO. "Welcome to MFC" whispers the Red Fox in his ear....

I think we will find out tomorrow morning, as an open training has been scheduled by the club.

I don't care if nobody cares about my feelings, but I'm super-happy we've landed this bloke. Such an impressive operator, and already paying dividends in the other personnel we've brought on board. To single out one quote among a number of telling actions and the general atmosphere already: - Wanting to instill the same confidence in our players as he did at Port in their ability to run out games - A year after he (and Hinkley) came on board, Port lifted itself into the finals for the first time in six odd years. The next year they were seriously unlucky to miss out on a grand final berth, denied by a missed shot in the clutch. But the standout element of the 2014 season, was Port continuously overrunning teams in the last quarter. I remember thinking at the time how cocky they were, that they would coast like a prize fighter. (With a strange form-line, I think this was also when they introduced the concept of a mini mid-year 'pre-season'). Port in 2014 (as a quick recap): Rnd 1: one goal behind at 3/4-time, outscored Carlton 7.5 v 1.2 in the final quarter Rnd 2: in a comprehensive win over Adelaide after half-time, score 7.2 in the final quarter Rnd 4: annihilate Brisbane, kicking 14.6 in the second half (with another 7-goal haul in the last) . Rnd 5: with scores even at 3/4-time in a tight contest away, kick 3.3 to the Eagles' 1.2 in the last. Rnd 8: down by a goal at the final break, downs Freo with a 5.6 v 2.1 haul in the last Rnd 11: challenged all day by a valiant MFC in hot conditions in Alice, Port prove too good in the last Rnd 12: Port kick 7.5 in the last against a demoralised St Kilda. From there Port slumped for a period, with rumours of a radical mid-season approach to plan for a finals' assault. But they still retained some of their last-quarter nous, including a last-gasp Schultz win against the Dees.

Interesting take binman but I think the difference is buddy and roughy were true footballers and had showed they can play fwd, and kick goals. Imo Grundy is the better comparison. Best case we end up with a Grundy but is that our need for the next 4-5 years? Obviously he could surprise and turn into a gun fwd but it’s a low percentage imo. Chances of him being a roughy or buddy are very slim imo

I thought he was just going through the motions, even half a step behind at the moment. Also looked a little 'heavier' than usual. It is an opinion! I can be wrong and often am but that's how I formed it. You see it that he was out there for 3 hrs and minimal exhaustion at the end. I was looking at it from a higher standard the perspective of a professional athlete. I think he has even more upside. However, I believe it is a positive thing for him. Hope he had some enjoyable time away from sport and is ready to recreate his 2018 season and work into a good pre-season. What's my opinion got to do with this 'site'? I am completely independent as everyone is and the site acts only as a facilitator.

Has there been any announcement on the club astrologer yet? The autumnal equinox falls on the same weekend we play in Perth whilst Mercury will be in retrograde. They still haven't reviewed the spring equinox debacle over there in 2018.

Don't know a lot about Kurt Mutimer. Quick, tough left footer apparently, and a former Eagle who at 22 is young enough to push his case for an AFL chance again. Thought it was an interesting prospect given his assets, and how we've used Casey to have a look at players in the past.

Great analysis and summary Lucifer. The injuries did expose our lack of "star power" and our general lack of depth across all lines. We simply did not have the cattle on the field. And with our poor start, the confidence slipped away, momentum was lost and the players were always chasing. However, the clubs reaction post season, its stability, its unity and its decision making cannot be faulted. It reflects a professionally run club that has processed the poor season and taken action to address the problem. It does not fix everything and no doubt it will be a topsy turvy season in 2020 but it does give you confidence that the club know's what it's doing. It's actions have not been indicative of a club in crisis or a fractious club. There have been no leaks, no slagging off by disgruntled players or coaches, and, importantly, no media beat ups from the dirt diggers.

Yeah tbh I've lost track a bit of all the bidding possibilities etc, so have put the calculator away. Can't pass on the person who told me, sorry, I know how much of a cop out that is. Was told to me by someone who has given me solid info very often in the past, some of which I've posted here before. They didn't say it was a lock, just that it was a growing possibility and looking more and more likely.

Though how many infront of the coach as he supervised the drill. Tom Mcdonald, hits the bag holds position and straight lines the ball. Goody's response, 'nobody will be able to get around those shoulders' Jake Melksham slammed the bag and made separation. Goody's response, 'good body work' . Toby timed well off the bag but missed the mark and leap completely. Nearly took it with his elbows. Goody just looked at me. Needs to repeat and repeat, and get rid of any anxiety if that is his concern.

Athletic midfield ruck automatically equals good forward? - Do Brodie Grundy or Nic Nat dominate in their brief stints as a KPF? Is Rory Lobb worth pick 3?

Personally I would only split if we knew we could still get one of Kemp and Serong at 10, assuming Young is gone obviously. Either would be a great get at 8 let alone 10.

If it's incredible then I don't believe it.

Good. I'm expecting a 16.4.100 type return in round 1 V's the Eagles, as opposed to the 7.13.55 slop circa 2019. Amazing the amount of games we lost last year purely on accuracy.

One thing I love about demonland is the complete lack of nuance. Something is either true or "TOTAL BS". Goodwin was making a point in the context of a discussion about playing a contested brand of footy, cohesion between players and efficiency in implementing the game plan. He's talking about what for what of a better word is now described as a "brand". I read it as Plan A is how we want to play. What happens when it's not working is shifts in tempo, individuals put into different positions, using one stopping player or two, or none at all. Plan A is our strategy. Those shifts in-game are tactics. Tactics change according to how the opposition wants to play, but the way we want to play - Plan A - does not change. Shifts in tactics are intended to enable us to play to our agreed strategy.

I was standing no more than 5 metres from Clarry after he came off and he was clearly in discomfort favouring his left arm. Having said that, he was in good spirits and heard him say to KK that it was only a 'stinger'. One can only hope. Would say that the training thus far has been as tough, long and brutal as anything I've seen.

I’d be amazed if someone didn’t ask “why don’t we just kick it more?” Like the majority of peanuts say every week in the MCC.

These were some of Josh Mahoney's slides from the night.