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After watching the replay even Paul Roos was singing praises about the weeds game but then again what would he know..

Jakovich was 23 for his first game. Schwartz averaged less than a goal a game until he was 22 Lyon averaged 1.1 per game until he was 25 Jurrah first game at 21 career average 2.2 Robertson 1 goal per game until he was 22 and the Wiz was not a tall forward.

the term gifted a game really grates. Players get games because they are the best available.

This a community announcement: For the love of all things good and just can people please stop quoting MB. If you feel you must quote him please delete his text or simply refer to the relevant post number. Continuing quoting of said poster renders the ignore function obsolete and studies have shown is bad for your health and cognitive function.

I thought the Weid worked really hard last Saturday the Stats never tell the full story

Context is key: 1. The forward line has been a joke all season. On the weekend against a pretty decent Freo side they kicked 13 goals, scored 85 and won the game. The forward line function was certainly improved. 2. The forward line featured 3 talls who haven't had a heap of footy together to learn how to function as a unit. I won't look up the exact number but McDonald, Smith and Weideman can't have played more than 10 games together, most likely under 5. Between the 3 tall forwards they had: 7 goals 5 behinds 44 disposals 15 marks Goodwin was explaining very clearly that the forwards worked well for each other and McDonald and Smith got on the end of the goals whilst Weideman played a very good game for 6 disposals. I'm sure the aim will be for Weideman to hold a few more marks and play an even better game for 10, 15 or even 20 disposals, but the most important thing for the side right now is to have guys working for each other and doing the team things. Having watched the replay Sam dropped a mark going back with the flight early that he did all the hard work for and he would've loved to hold one or two more where he got hands on inside 50 but Hamling - one of the best closing speed full backs in the game - got a fist on. But I severely doubt the coach was commenting as a way to pump Weids up. He was being honest and correct in saying it was a really good 6 disposal game as part of a discussion on what the players did well to turn around a bad forward set up.

What was good to hear afterwards was Garry Lyon and Nick Riewoldt both agreeing that the fact that Weideman is getting to contests and bringing the ball to ground is a huge positive in its self. Lyon said that he watched the game with some mates and they were frustrated in that he's always at the contest but spilling marks, but Lyon was saying to them that the fact he's bringing the ball to ground is a positive and that over time with more experience he will clunk them. Riewoldt made an interesting comment that getting to and around the ground to make a contest is extremely hard, and the fact Weideman is doing it constantly throughout the game is a good sign for a young key forward. Loved hearing this from 2 former great forwards of the game.

8. Why did we sign up an injury prone, slow, hard at it player, whose main talent is tackling, for 3 years, but ship out another injury prone player who was a fast, hard, goal kicker and great user going inside 50 (Kent, that is) because he wanted 3 years? To me, the second player has all the attributes our list is clearly lacking more than the first.

Loved how he talked about his appreciation of Weideman's game on the weekend. Shows that coaches look at more than stats when judging the effectiveness of how a player played their role in making the system work.

Love what the club has done with O Mac. He’s proven to be a vital player for us in the past and has plenty to offer in the future. He’s done some terrific shut down jobs in the last 18 months, Darling the most recent only a few weeks back. Kennedy kicked 4 on us that night in Perth and we didn’t hear a peep about his opponent that night. He will have to work hard to get back in the side and as a supporter I’d feel confident to have him back in to do what’s asked of him.

https://m.afl.com.au/news/2019-06-26/demons-circle-docker-langdon-as-contract-talks-are-put-on-hold

Played footy with Ian back before his TV days. Pretty sure he went to 9 on a short term contract in accounts and ended up running the place. Good bloke, ran into him from time to time over the years and never lost his down to earth nature. Congratulating him when 7 got the TV rights back from 9 at a huge cost his comment was now we have to work out how to f..... pay for it. RIP Jonno...

Surely you don't think he's slow? Kent also said he wanted more midfield time, something we couldn't offer him and something he hasnt ended up getting at St Kilda, maybe he has a [censored] tank? You couldn't see how important Vanders was last season?

Just goes to show how much people on not just this forum, but most others have no FEEL for the game outside of Super Coach stats. Weid was fantastic on the weekend with the work he did without the ball in his hands. Had a direct influence in four goals outside of the one he kicked. I don't care if he doesn't kick bags if he does what he did on the weekend by getting to contests and keeping up the pressure. Practice = confidence and time = experience. Look what has happened to Frosty this year.

I was at the game and was very surprised when I looked at the stats the next day, he seemed to be much more involved, which is good that the coaches aren't blinding going off stats either.

100% agree. The club probably did Omac a a disservice by trading Dunn and not having any other senior big defenders and leaving him to fill the breach, rather than playing more games at Casey. And there was no question of him being gifted games last year as he was key part of a back six that from round 12 was the most frugal in the AFL and helped us make a prelim. It is important to to note in that context that omac's form in the second half of the year ensured our best forward, Tmac could actually play forward and not go back. it is also relevant to note they elected to extend his contract to the end of 2020, something clubs don't do with players they don't think are up to it.

“Sam Weideman’s game shouldn’t be underestimated. It’s probably one of the better six possession games I’ve seen from a key forward,” Goodwin said. ??? Lolz. Nice one Goody. Realise you’ve got to go into bat for your boy but that’s pushing the barrow a bit far, innit! Meanwhile over at Les Blues Chucky Curnow is leaping over tall buildings in a single bound, roosting seven and pumping double cobras to the crowd. I hope Weid makes it but let’s keep it real Demonlanders.

Oh didn't you know LN? Apparently he had a poor game, was just "filling out a jumper" and "isn't earning his place"

All the more credit to Oscar to help us get to a prelim. He shouldered quite a burden while being 'gifted games' especially when Tom went fwd. 'Gifted games' is really player development. Everyone needs to start somewhere and our defence was threadbare having lost Frawley and Howe. Oscar had to learn on the job; the hard way and in the spotlight. We played zone defence rather than 1vs1 which may explain the low rating, why we leak like a sieve and easy to score against. Not Oscar's fault the whole zone and team defence thing broke down. We recruited Lever as an interceptor. When Tom went fwd we needed a big bodied player. Oscar's body hasn't built fast enough (bulk has to be built slowly on a young body) so we got May. Neither recruit was because Oscar 'won't make it'. I'm delighted the club has taken the 4 weeks for Oscar to rest, build some bulk and some confidence. It is all about helping him become the best he can be. That is good for everyone.

Ian Johnson, past committee member and vice president of Melbourne Football Club, passed away overnight. He had a long career as managing director of Kerry Packer’s GTV9, and then in the same role at Channel 7. He was vice-president at Chirnside Park Country Club and at the Yarra Valley Country Club. He was a member of Kew Golf club before moving to the Peninsula when he joined Portsea Golf Club and was a great contributor to that club. When the Community Clubs Association of Victoria (CCAV) started, he immediately accepted the role of Chairman has been Chairman of the merged organisation, CCV, since its inception in 2014. When he retired from Channel 7, he and his wife Kim moved to Sorrento where he became an influential member of the Sorrento Football Club, initiating the very successful pre-game lunches with famous guest speakers.

? | https://www.sen.com.au/news/2019/06/25/goodwin-breaks-down-how-melbourne-is-reinventing-its-forward-line

Free slab of beer to the first person to suggest the need to play #hardball in the chase to get Langdon - referencing Bell/Hogan etc. send me your address and I’ll drop it off... postscript: that’ll be you then @TheoX

You must have been quite upset that Nathan Buckley was given the nickname of FIGJAM

You were the first one to make the comparison! You compared him to a bunch of players in the AFL Hall of Fame and MFC Team of the Century - 'truly magical forwards' in your own words. You're chasing your own tail like a little puppy and you don't even know it.

Kent wanted more midfield time but didn’t get it, much like Howe said he wanted forward time at Colonwood and didn’t. And agree 100% that VDB when fit offers a huge boost well in excess of his purely statistical footy output. A bit of X factor.

Ok you tell me in the year that Schwartz kicked 60 goals (1994) he played 25 games, how old was he when he kicked his 60th goal? Remembering he was born July 24th 1972. Now we are talking a once in a generation player in Schwartz before knee problems. I do not believe for a minute that Weideman is anywhere near the player that Schwartz was but at the same number of games 28 Weideman 0.86 goals per game, Schwartz first 28 games .96 goal per game in an era when more goals were scored generally. It is not a huge difference. You were the one making the point about how good your list of past forwards were compared to Weideman, I am suggesting that we give the kid some time, he could well turn out to be a very good player for us and he is not far behind the stars that you listed. Not clutching straws but living in hope.

Look mate, I don't have any personal problems with you, and I even agree with you on the odd occasion, but this tendency to repeat things over and over again is really wrecking your impact and cred here in my view. Take it on board or don't, entirely up to you, I'm just some guy on the internet so doesn't really matter in the big scheme of things, but leaving a little space for others to contribute will make this site more enjoyable for everyone, maybe even you. Have a good one.

Try telling a certain someone who was at training telling us all that no player would be underdone.

That’s what Goody was getting at. While he didn’t get many possies Weid worked hard at some of the team 1%’s. Therefore with low stats he still contributed.

It clearly wasn't his best game this year but I'd like to see Sam's contest win-half-loss from Saturday. He only got the 2 contested marks but eye test during the game it felt like he was at least halving most contests he was involved in. I suspect as a young key forward that's what Goody was most impressed by. Keeping in mind also that Clarry's goal and Tom's sealer both only came about thanks to contests Weids halved.

Who cares if you don’t get the ball as long as you chase, tackle and apply pressure.

coaches have favorites for good reason - effort on the training track, attitude, ability to fulfill a role, Xfactors, needing to trial a new player to see if they are capable of stepping up. Selection is a complex process and made by a committee, not just one person. Sometimes they get it wrong but it is is easy to judge that in retrospect.

This notion of "gifting" is ridiculous. A player's selection is often/sometimes a puzzle to us supporters. That , however, does not mean said player is being "gifted" a game. It simply means that we ,as supporters, do not and cannot know the internal machinations, processes and thinking of the selection committee and coaches. Speculation and philosophising maybe rife but just like "the meaning of life" - somethings must remain a mystery.

Misson on Oscar: Key back Oscar McDonald will play VFL this weekend after undergoing a "mini pre-season". "We just feel he needed to reset physically and probably mentally, and he looks unbelievable now," Misson said. "He's done some great work in the gym, he looks strong, really fit, and he's done some really specific conditioning over and above all the footy work he's done. "We're really pleased with how he's approached it and we're quietly confident it's going to produce some really good results for Oscar." Just shows how missing a large part of preseason sets back the whole season. Hip surgery can't be easy to overcome for such a tall person. Good on Oscar for taking the program on board and putting all into it.

I got there at the 20 minute mark of the second quarter - I can't get used to the different starting times! Chandler was on the bench when I got there and didn't return. But I've seen him a bit and like him. I think he does have the speed and he's a very good kick. I'm not sure he'll make it but he won't die wondering. KK: Looked pretty good to me. Got the ball a fair bit and used it okay considering the conditions which made it hard for everyone. I think the FD see him as a starting 22 player in the long run and he'll return before many think. The FD clearly want to get continuity into the team and if that means sacrificing a little performance they will do that. And we have 4 in the team on Saturday who aren't locks. JKH: Was very good from what I saw. Clean, faster than most, found the ball, got in good places and kicked it well. I don't know how the FD see him. I thought the was not the worst in Darwin but didn't hold his spot. His form at Casey has been very good. DK: Not a big man's day. We all want him to succeed but he's struggling. Lewis was outstanding. Far to good for this level and a terrific mentor to the young kids. Good on him for doing it, credit where credit is due. It was an awful game in awful conditions against a stand alone team hell bent on knuckling a few of our blokes. You'd think the VFL would put a stop to it. Williamstown do the same. It's not tough footy, just thug footy. You'd hope we'd be past that.

I believe considering the vast amount of it, it's more like burley at this stage ET. It's like someone had a massive spew over the side of the boat.

I remember having good Chats with Ian about the Demons in 1986, when i worked at GTV9 RIP

That's because your understanding of the game is so superficial and one-dimensional. (Though there was no "passionate defence", just a statement, though this is typical of your straw man arguments.)

These stats on the face of it appear damning but it's hard to compare the two eras. There were some massive scorelines in the late 80s to 00s. Teams would regularly kick well over 120 points a game. I was watching a game from 93 yesterday where we scored 160 points. We scored 156 points in the 00 prelim. Players kicking large bags and in turn teams kicking massive scores just is not the norm today.

Goodwin is either a liar or incompetent according to Mats.

Too many on here fail to acknowledge the effect of continual number of unavailable players, causing constant chopping and changing of the lineup, which in turn continually makes the side unsettled. There always seems that AFL culture of you can't blame injuries. Well I can and I am.

The Weid-man was clearly more influential than his numbers suggest, that's obvious for anyone who watched the game. But it has to be said that Goody is rarely considered when making statements. He has a bit of a history at getting himself in a muddle or saying silly things. Whether it was earlier in the year when he said "there are no excuses" only to follow up by explaining that a number of players had "interrupted pre-seasons" or consistently spitting out the same carp in post-game pressers. I understand he probably feels a need to spin positives at every presser for the fans, players, sponsors etc, but if we're going to be brutally honest, the game against Freo wasn't an improvement. The very same problem exists due to personnel. Sure there were a handful of individuals who stepped their game up but we won't be getting close to Brisbane if we perform at the same level. (Unless of course Brisbane manage two significant injuries to important players during the game).

I had the best 29 over par round the other day. Shoulda seen me. I was on fire ?

Not sure where anyone, including Goody, heaped praise on him or went overboard with their view of his contribution, but it's always good to hear someone with a ton of actual AFL experience and knowledge making comments showing an understanding of the nuances of the game rather than outlandish statements for attention. Makes a nice change of pace from the internet. How did the Blues go in that game by the way?

You have to remember that Weideman has played no where near as many games as Curnow has because of the fact that, until this year, Weideman has been kept out of the side by Hogan. You can't keep comparing him to Curnow even though they're from the same draft class as Curnows experience at AFL level is very much above Weideman's. Deliberately having a provocative opinion doesn't make you interesting, "MB".

That wouldn't be because they know more about the game than the supporters would it?

It's been non stop in the Northern Rivers. I wish it would stop. Tanks full, #kthxbye My golden retriever has turned an even more god-awful shade of red soil red than usual.

The angst towards Omac is ridiculous. I am happy the club is investing time trying to help him recapture form.

Went along as it was close to home. Ground undergoing significant development but pleasingly there's a lot of seating that isn't up in the stand...just seats built into the terraces. Works well. Sausage was burnt, pie was good. Didn't try the lager on top but regularly buy Coburg lager from the local IGA. Its good stuff. Of the MFC boys: -Lewis. Played mostly well, it's either that the team has been told to play through him or he just gets himself open in the right spots, so got a ton of the pill. Either way, his kicking i50 was a highlight. Had a poor final quarter though, began to get caught in traffic and started lining blokes up as he is prone to do. In quite a few situations went for a headhigh bump instead of tackle and was lucky not to connect. Also squibbed a couple of high balls. A good game, not a promotion earning game, but we know his output can be good on his day. -Wagner. Always looks good at this level where he uses his speed and footskills to create. Looks like he knows his better than this and would love to see him bring this confidence to the 1s. However, his best position is definitely as a centre man and I think he's just too slight to ever be damaging at AFL level. Even in VFL, if he gets tackled he pretty much gets pinned for HTB 80% of the time. -Maynard. Opposite to CWag, holds his ground and frame very strongly in the contest and as a result is a key inside distributor at this level. You can tell he's been trained in a good inside midfield AFL setup. Also went forward and pleasingly took a number of good marks where his size stood out. However, for the most part his kicking and decision making lets him down in either finding a teammate or having a shot. But this isn't new news. Is good depth and good to have around a VFL team because he's a good player at this level. Wouldn't be surprised if Casey sign him upon MFC delisting like old mate mitch white. -Dunkley. I watched his VFL debut against Werribee and missed his day out against Collingwood...fair to say he's gotten used to the level from Werribee when he looked off the pace. For a 19 year old he has good size and the confidence to take on tacklers with a decent little sidestep. Is a long kicking player who fits a part time HF / midfield role quite well. There's something to like here no doubt, he seems to have good game sense and spatial awareness and a good inside/outside mix. Will get a game for the Ds at some point this year. He is a natural VDB replacement at a good age without the sheer pace and power, but a bit more craft. Doesn't have Hannans X factor so can't really replace Mitch in the 1s just yet. Saw he kicked a goal in the stats, must have been Casey's first as I did arrive late. Was pleased to see him blocking intelligently for Wagner at a number of stoppages to try and get Corey loose. -Chandler. Is a busy little player who seems to have a thirst for it and good ball skills, but I worry he's just not quick enough to have the weapons required at the top level at his size. A handy player at this level. May have gotten injured as I didn't see him after half time. -Bedford. With a year or two I think this kid might be playing in the 1s. Has some stuff to learn and isn't as skilled as I would like on the run on the outside, but you can see he knows how and when to use his natural pace, but in an unusual kind burst at the contest kind of way. Wins more than his fair share of contests and 1%s for a kid his size and is a willing tackler. Has some spunk and was very happy with his final qtr goal after getting a bit of stick from the very game Coburg crowd. -Bradtke. Is extremely raw in every sense and is out of most contests until the ball is in the air. Is half as thin as those defending him but reads the ball very well mid flight and takes or almost takes most things that come his way. Got the MFC boys in the stand very excited when he nearly took a mark in the goal square before kicking it over his head for a goal. Popular amongst the group it seems. -Keilty. Again, a very good player at this level and is a real leader in this team. Important all day around the ground with his marking/spoiling and tackling. Had one particularly outstanding smother on the half forward flank when Coburg were coming. Has a lot of attributes and with luck will be a Pedersen style journeyman, though his versatility may cost him like it did with Cam. Not brilliant at anything, but good to very good at lots. -Preuss. Absolutely dominated the ruck all day, a number of handy hitouts as well as a strong marking performance particularly in the 1st half. Despite this, I can see why he isn't getting a game beyond structural issues. A number of times at opposition kick outs he would sprint toward the wrong flank and the opposition would just go the other direction to avoid him. Because he only really has one burst in him he then very slowly works his way back across the ground, letting his Coburg man run off him in the process. The lack of tank is an issue they need to fix, and combine that with a bit of game knowledge. Nonetheless, a big strong player who makes the opposition worried. We are lucky to have him as depth. Whilst I don't think he deserves a call up necessarily, old Oscar Mc for Brisbane of Casey of old took a bunch of contested marks against the saints with Stefan Martin playing ruck 1, so this may be a week for Brayden to come in. -KK. Is very slowly getting back into footy. With time and space you can see he has the class and seems to have good running patterns that result in him receiving a lot of ball in threatening overlap positions. However, constantly misweights his kicks and misses targets. Conditions difficult yes, but a stark contrast to Lewis who hits most targets with a quick hand to ball drop. Isn't particularly great in the contest considering his stock but I he was steak knives for a reason. Has a way to go, I hope he doesn't get an MFC game anytime soon. For his sake, needs to have a good run of consistency at this level and hit the targets he should have the skill to hit. -Spargo. Charlie had a bit of a tough day. We know he's a good tackler for his size but when he gets it, seems to want to put a few steps on defenders with misdirection but invariably gets tackled and HTB. Happened several times. Has a bit too much instruction flowing through his head which is natural for a stint of 2nd year blues. Was called out at 3qtr time as someone who needed to give a bigger effort and he responding by Grassing a sitter in the goal square when Casey needed a goal after a well weighted pass from Maynard. Having an ordinary year. -JKH. Thought he was clearly in the top 3 on ground, was kicking with purpose and is noticeable he has better stamina at this level than most. Halved a number of contests he had no right to and generally ran hard and linked up all day, hit a lot of targets. May get a call up if a mystery injury to a mid/HFF happens. At this stage, I probably prefer him to ANB to be honest. -Jordon. Was very young when we drafted him and they've thrown him to the wolves by playing him in the guts for a number of weeks now. Gives his all against bigger bodies and is tougher than I thought he would be. The flipside is his kicking isn't what it is renowned for. Nonetheless, needs a couple of years down here and may be a player one day. Appears very coachable and compliant. Think that's everyone. The MFC boys were there in good numbers with no noticeable limps (I checked Viney as he pulled up in the last few minutes on Saturday). Frost very generous with his time to a number of passer-bys. Jetta part of defensive huddles. Baker seems in with the cool group of Oliver/harmes/petracca ....can only be mostly good for him to feel apart of that midfield. Lever there I think for the dual purpose of seeing the team and watching I think his brother Tyson no.7 for Coburg? Tyson seemed popular win the local Coburg supporters but wasn't overly impressive as an undersized left footed key back I thought.