Leaderboard

Every year they wheel out the 'we will be making a decision about this' story. Every year they 'respond to feedback' and keep the day grand final 'for now'. The whole thing is an exercise in undermining the perceived continuity and legitimacy of the day grand final, by creating a sense that it is a year-by-year decision. Put this together with enough cherry-picking of daft online polls, and soon enough it'll feel normal that this is a debatable topic rather than the open-and-shut 'everyone who really cares either way, prefers day' reality. They have already made their decision, they are just working on the tactics to out-maneuver public opinion. It's a lot like the rigged 'pilot programs' and railroaded 'consultation processes' that governments keep using for thought-bubble projects they long ago decided they wanted no matter what the evidence tells them. Odious scumbags.

We have all become cynical about the motives of those in charge of governments, institutions, organisations, and sporting bodies etc The difference is that for many of us, sport is different, particularly footy. It is not about hard headed business decisions or beancounters dictating changes that do not benefit the footy public.. It's about passion and soul. The game has an existential existence for most supporters. The more changes are made, the more cynical people become. Cynicism breeds contempt and then anger and then disengagement, often both. At Shepparton on Sunday, it was wonderful to see the hard core Richmond and Melbourne supporters enjoing a day at the footy. And also those folk without club allegiances wanting to see a good game of footy. Men, women, kids of all ages and social class. At the ground enjoying the purity of the contest. A sport which at its heart, is a simple game. I stood there thinking, now, this is the way it should be, this is footy No bells or whistles. Just the game. Just the game. Yet the decision makers increasingly make decisions that chip away at that passion, that chip away at the very soul of the game. Its similar to the demise of our confidence in parliament, government and our democratic institutions. Its similar to the banks. After a while people lose faith in the leadership and lose faith that the leaders are acting for the benefit of all. People disengage and detach from caring about these things. Will we get to the stage where we stop caring about our footy? With footy there will always be the game. However, I fear that we are seeing more changes and rumours of change that are driven by the advertising dollar. It threatens to accelerate the transformation of the game from something that its been for 100 years supported by the match day supporters, to a game viewed on TVs, tablets and devices where viewers are looking for entertainment for their ever decreasing attention spans, happy to absorb advertisements for junk food, cars and gambling. Moving to a night grand final will be another nail in the coffin. Another statement to us all that the AFL does not care for the football public. The sad thing is we all know that in our heart of hearts it is going to happen. We all know that decisions are made that are not in the interests or for the benefit of all the passionate supporters that love their club and love this great game we call footy. .

Someone shoot Gil. Fmd, he's done more to ruin this game than anyone. Send this ponsy polo-ing puckhead to some other sport to bugger it up.

You play your best available team here. Final practice run before round 1.

Daytime. Gil can FO

Daytime because if we play I don't think I could cope sitting around all day waiting until evening/night. And, a day game gives plenty of time for fans to celebrate as one at or near the ground, bring the players out etc then let them go to their after game do while we paint the town red (and blue). Twilight or Night encroaches on the post game festivities.

I wouldn’t bother playing Gawn this week. He was best on ground in the prac match so for mine he is in good touch. I see no benefit in running him around in a meaningless match. Give Preuss a chance to show a bit more and give Keilty another go to show he can back it up.

edit: Salem re-signs until 2021

The Grand Final isn't broken.. It's doesn't need fixing.... Leave it alone

Cough.......................Cyril Rioli........................Cough!!! Get Jordan Lewis into his ear

The GF is a television event. When is the best time to watch TV. Great post Ernest....In recent years I have been frequenting the Casey games when they are played at some of the traditional inner city venues. Try it if you have time. My favourite is probably the Coburg ground but on a nice day Port and Williamstown ovals are delightful. Last year I also discovered Frankston oval. A great day out.

The beauty of football is the football. We do not need fireworks or half time entertainment. We need more football. The best sporting event I have been to was watching the under 19's the reserves and the 1st's play footy, what a day! No fireworks, no imported Americanisation, no meatloaf other than my mums sandwiches and don't forget the McLelland Trophy.

Because he is lippy And tells the umpires when they have made a blue. Often. And with conviction. And he gets stuck into opponents. Scraps and pushes and holds tbem down after tackles. All of which dees fans love. Tbe umpires not so much. I backed him for most brownlow votes for us last year. Was shocked that Brashaw won it. But shouldn't be. They love golden boy Brayshaw. Clarry not so much

Advertising Revenue is higher at night. The one and only reason this topic is spoken about yearly

Stop [censored] up our game Gil. God i hope Robbo is right and you are shown the door come year's end.

Is it possible that Hunt's positioning is dictated by the coach? Could they be trying a thing or two? Let's not be so hasty to criticise. At his best, Hunt is a weapon and we should encourage him to find his way back.

Can I just say for those who didn't catch it before ( and I swear I will never mention it again ) I did shake Clarry's hand in the Middle Camberwell Woolworths just after he got drafted and wished him luck. Sadly, I have washed that hand since.

like: beer dislike: is that like not liking something? it is? in that case i dislike not having beer like: drinking dislike: not drinking. unless it's eating nuts or chips in which case i start drinking like: getting drunk dislike: not getting drunk like: being drunk dislike: getting .... what's the opposite of being drunk? disdrunk? undrunk? i don't know. whatever it is-- no ... no .. whatever it is ... i don't like it. i even dislike it. like: footy dislike: uvver sports. unless it's footy. then i like it. but this is about things i dislike. running out of beer, not having any beer. you know. things like that. like: beer. did i say that already? you sure, mate? another like: essadan. and james hird. by jeez, james hird. now i feel like another beer. like: writing about footy. except the writing part. that should be a dislike thing. except i get paid. that's the bit i do like. dislike: not having money. you ever wake up and you've got no money but lots of empties and old betting tickets? i have. and i dislike that. then i have to write some more. and i dislike that too. it's enough to drive a man to drink. oh, and i like james hird too. put that in. whose shout is it? yours? thought so.

Have you read Red Fox ? Might be more than an accidental comparison ;)

The Demonland Podcast will be LIVE tonight at 8:30pm featuring @Grapeviney, @Supermercado & me. Listen and chat LIVE: http://demonland.com/podcast ****chat not working so post comments or questions in this thread ******* Call: 03 9016 3666 Skype: Demonland31

I had to laugh last year when, at the start of the finals series, he picked Melbourne to finish runners up for the flag, but also tipped Geelong (on the same page) to beat us in the elimination final.

I love the way Chris Fagan is developing the Lions. They will beat a few fancied teams this year and gave us a good run for our money in round 2 last year.

Say it LOUDER Ding! Gil obviously has a hearing problem.

What were they thinking? Surely it would have been more appropriate to buy him the collected works of Friedrich Nietzsche. He could start with 'The Birth of Tragedy' and then move on to 'The Case of Wagner'. What could be more appropriate than that?

I think Curnow had a slight edge on the weid. However playing the last h&a rounds were tense games and the Weid played well. His first 2 finals were exceptional and expect him to rise to another level in 2019. Weideman IMO is developing into something special and will definitely hold his own. As for Mckay, Himmelberg and Hipwood they are improving types and Schache i believe is lagging behind.

And the Beach Rd oval, Frankston as well. But Casey has the best food. Or did. I haven't been for a couple of seasons.

Or a Crown

Quite rightly Weideman is waiting a while to sign. If he has a 40 plus goal season his worth will be considerably more whoever he signs with. Trade value aside if Hogan had stayed Weid would have been off at year's end. Now the equation is a lot easier.

like gil's comment "we will not be influenced by broadcasters".........yeah right

I would debate that. He is one of the best kicks in the team and controls the play from the back half beautifully.

You make a good point and get into the area of whether executives in any business should be drug tested. Personally, unless it's a privately owned business and is not in an area of public risk, then I think executives do not have the right to say it impinges on their privacy because their actions affect others. So, I would have to say that the AFL is not privately owned and as such I have no problem with AFL executives being drug tested. (IQ testing might be a good idea, too.)

Twilight for me. Start at 4:10pm, game finishes at dusk by 6:45. Gives broadcasters room to generate hype and build events prior to the game. And it leads directly into primetime television. Businesses in the city would greatly benefit: blending GF crowds with night life crowds in clearer cohesion. Fans benefit by offering a better atmosphere and experience at the game. Broadcasting allows people to stretch out the day and create more of a celebration, starting later and providing more flexibility. This is my opinion. I don't really give a [censored] either way.

You don't think that Dill is on bigger bucks to perform (much more than any player)...or Eddie, Gary, Robbo, Sam??? I would think the decisions made at AFL executive and board level are more important than anything a player will have to do. Shouldn't they have a clear head. ...and those reporting, wouldn't it be good to know they are not being hypocritical in their views. Coming out strongly against drug use but privately in it up to their eye balls.

I should add I support a daytime Grand Final. Partly because I'm a traditionalist and partly because if we should ever win one of these things, I think I could really enjoy the afterglow better if I had all night to think about it. If Channel 7 really wanted to extract value from the AFL Grand Final, why don't they invest a few bucks in a night time post-game TV "party"? It would be part replay, part analysis, part attending the post-game winners celebration (and losers wake). Basically, think of it as The Front Bar post Grand Final edition. (The important point is for it to work it has to be hosted by professional entertainers, not football commentators.) I've often wondered why the TV networks seem to think that there's nothing to cover from 6 pm on Grand Final Day until about March the following year. (I blame TV executives who are based in Sydney and don't understand the product.)

It's not relevant how the AFL executive perform? Great they can relax. Chill. Snort some coke before they organize next year's fixture. Again. Oh and the exec are on way more than the average player so can afford all the coke they want. In any case if the issue is performance what about those players who perform better because some mull helps them wind down one in a while or a pill in the off season dancing at a festival.helps their mental health?

All the advertising types would say they really care about it being held at night. I agree that our guy Gil 'man of the people' is trying to soften everyone up into sliding a night GF onto the fixture under the cover of darkness.

I'm happy with Weideman's development, no doubt about that. The only other player I'd consider swapping him for on that list is Curnow, who is going to be a star of the competition very soon. I think Weideman can become a terrific player for us long term, though.

Underrated player. I only say that because, with Oliver, Brayshaw, Viney, Max etc in the midfield, it's easy for him to slip under the radar. Sublime skills, tough as nails and deceptively good overhead. Now that he's fit we are seeing why he was a top 10 pick. His range of abilities compliments the rest of the on ball brigade, and the half back line, perfectly. He'll never win a sprint contest but his vision and footy IQ more than make up for it. Hopefully he settles into a wing role without too much fuss and is hitting players lace out on their chest for the next decade.

Not only that, but statistically in 2018, they were extremely similar players. Cripps gets plenty of love, and rightly so, for being a fantastic footballer, but he stands out in a rubbish football side. Clarry is an absolute gun in a side that has plenty of gun players around him. That speaks volumes. I'd wager both of them are well and truly on the same level and Lloyd is well wide of the mark in his assessment.

Lives in the shadow of Max, Clarrie and Gus but no less important. Happy days.

I didn't hear Lyon, but if he rated Oliver the best he's seen at Deeland, then he's pretty much on the money in my opinion. Garry would never have seen Ronald Dale or Brian Dixon and I doubt he saw Stan Alves or Greg Wells in demon colours, so there's really only one player ahead of him and it's already been pointed out that 'Tulip' Robbie Flower was very much an outside mid. Gerard Healy's final year at our club in 1985 was Oliver-esque but much of his early years were spent as a forward, so i've left him out of my list below, but he's the only other player who can be mentioned in the same breath as these guys. Also left out on a positional basis were Adam Yze, Steven Febey (best work as half back), Brett Lovett (same) and Glenn Lovett (half forward). I also remember more of Willow as our gifted umpy-appealing forward, even though he was a pure mid for his Brownlow year with us and flipped spots a bit. My 10 best Dee mids I've seen (which dates back to 1971) are: 1) Robbie Flower - Kept our club alive with hope in the 70s and early 80s. Could do anything, just watch any state game highlights. 2) Clayton Oliver - only a small sample, but his past two years have been huge and he's getting more confident in taking the game on. 3) Todd Viney - a bit wonky with his kicking at times, but grunt work was exceptional. Made everyone walk taller when he played. 4) Greg Wells - an unbelievable mark for his size and he didn't even have a leap - just great at positioning his body. 5) Stan Alves - one of the first to realise the importance of fitness and out on his wing, he found space. 6) Jack Viney - if he can keep injury free then he'll climb up the order. He's our Joel Selwood. 7) Stephen Tingay - when he was hot during the early 90s, so were we. Had courage and a damaging kick on the run. 8) Nathan Jones - we all know he's a hard worker, but he's also very elusive for a bloke who's not exceptionally quick. 9) Shane Woewodin -OK, the haters are going to hate, but his 2000 year was inspiring and we did make the GF largely because of him. 10) Andrew Obst - a tremendous work ethic over a number of years and better in traffic than Sugar Healy IMO. Likely to be on this list in a couple more years: Gus and Harmes

After having a read through this thread, most of what i was going to say has been covered. I found that standing behind the goals meant that you miss a lot more than you could see on TV. Especially when the ball was mostly at the Tigers scoring end for so long, and i chose to be at our end. Oh well. The main points to stand out for me from the game were, in no particular order *The playing surface was in spectacular condition. *Considering the amount of time the ball went inside Richmonds Fwd 50 with little to no pressure, i thought our makeshift backline did quite well. That felt like a much bigger loss than 2 goals. *Preuss has major timing issues with his jump at ball-ups. He is a monster though. *Clarry and Angus are Manna from heaven. Ball magnets both, although Brayshaw needs to clean up his disposal on the left foot. *I thought Jeffy was having a real crack until injured. I have a couple of images from that actual contest, but not on the actual dislocation. One Richmond player patted him on the backside on his way off the ground which was nice to see. Poor bugger must have been in a lot of pain. *JKH was better than just ok. His improvement has been noticeable and he is now a genuine depth option, not just an emergency backup IMO. *Jordan showed some promise. Not as lost as i expected him to be. *Charlie Spargo might not be the most skilled, but his work ethic was really good. Did quite a bit more off the ball than i expected. Not as bad a day as some posts might have indicated. *Harmes is in for another great year. I love his attack on the ball, and oppo players. *Trac doesnt do much off the ball, but get him in a pack and his hands are almost as fast as Olivers. Get him fit and stick him in the guts. Much better there than deep forward, as his set shots are still very ordinary. Room for improvement, but he has the tools. *One bloke behind the goals at the MFC end was wearing a Dec Keilty badge... the only one on his jumper. Keilty and Harrison were much better than i expected. Decs work in particular was quite nice. *Tmac must have been a bit crook, as he had so little impact and looked really flat. Just a bad day for him. *Weid is much bigger than last year, but seeing him up close right next to Rance showed how much he still has to bulk up. Very big difference in size and strength was obvious. Even Tmac looked skinny next to Rance. *Cotchin is a D-bag. A big one. *Nev is a champ, and i was a pathetic fanboi when he let me take a photo of him with my daughter. I was like a giddy little pre-teen at their first concert. Nothing lost yesterday other than the injury to Jeff. Hope he makes it back soon. The margin should have been much greater, but with our outs i didn't care one bit. Finally, our pre-season form really IS irrelevant.

Hi It's Time... Is "little own" similar to "let alone"

Putting all my eggs on thick as a brick

be interesting to see what major changes they go with given the expected whopping changes that might happen - all of may, jones, lewis, viney, gawn, hibberd, melksham, vandenberg, and jetta are expected to be back 'in', with a couple mooted to come back via a vfl hitout given that only garlett appeared to be injured this week, if they do bring all those nine back through the seniors that means they might need to make a further eight changes if not more if they choose to go in with a reduced playing list to get a more realistic hit-out ahead of the season proper

I started a thread here once about the 'Best combined 22 that anyone here had seen play.' That opened up the possibility for both young & old (here) to post up players from any era. But if I was picking an all-time great Demon 22 then I'd be putting up plenty who I never actually saw play. Ivor Warne-Smith, Norm Smith, RDB and many others. But RDB supersedes all and therefore has to be brought into the conversation ... he was too good a player and played as a ruck-rover (midfielder) This is not to detract from Clarrie's obvious ability but he needs a similar output for a few more years yet before the true accolades can be bestowed on him. Wells is the best midfielder I've seen play at the club but again, RDB is miles ahead of all of them if we trust the history. And I trust the history.

Thank goodness the AFL didn't have a relegation system in the period 2008 to 2013.

Because you’re a negative nally.