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Watts loves the club? Absolutely. He is clearly a decent individual? Most certainly. He is talented? Indeed. He is popular. For sure. He is MFC? A fine embodiment of the past 9 years perhaps. He craves ultimate success at this club? So so much evidence to the contrary. I'm going to miss him if he goes, but I completely understand the position of the footy department. My first instinct was "please no" mainly because I genuinely believe in the first four statements I've quoted above. I also realized after more rational thought that my main concern was what he might manage at another club. What a loser mentality that is. The word culture is so over-used in footy but this decision certainly won't cost us a premiership but it may just send the message to the rest of the list that helps us win one. We were so close this year. And I'm not talking about the .5% that cost us finals, I'm talking premierships. And premiership teams don't have passengers or those who have a good month of footy here or there. They have 22 players all pulling in the right direction who consistently meet the standards determined by the coaching staff - at the club, away from the club, during pre-season, before pre-season and in games. We've seen enough sadly. My respect for Goodwin, McCartney, Mahoney and Jackson continues to grow. We're in good hands.

The fact that Jack and his Manager travelled to Port yesterday and not the other way round, suggests he went there not just for a discussion but to view the facilities. That suggests advanced discussions. Given he has 2 years to go on his contract with us that also suggests we are somewhat behind the move. To me that suggests that if a trade can be done he is probably gone. I will be disappointed and just hope that we don't get shafted ion the deal. Let me be the first to say I think he will probably be a good player wherever he goes and we will probably regret it. Hopefully I am wrong and if he goes we get the best of the deal.

We all sat here furious that we missed finals. I'm still furious about it. [censored] Richmond are in the bloody GF! Anyways, a big part of why we missed out on finals is we got too content, too lazy, we lacked that killer instincts. Yes this is definitely not exclusively the fault of Watts, but gees he is a perfect example of a player who doesn't care enough. He isn't alone, but for 10 years we've struggled to get him to apply himself, and as a senior player now, that sort of not quite right attitude seeps thru the playing group if not handled correctly. I have always been a Watts supporter and defender, but if we sit here bemoaning our lack of results and our dismal round 23 capitulation, and yet we do nothing to rid the club of those who don't put in enough, then how can we expect to move forward? As supporters we need to stop feeling personally victimized by players being moved on and accept that sometimes 10 years and 7 coaching regimes fighting to better a player's attitude is long enough.

So if Watts goes that's another number 1 pic who walks out the door along with god knows how many other top 25 pics over the yrs. How diff could it have been if we could have developed these players properly. Goodwin and Co better know what the hell they r doing. God this footy club makes it hard to continually support them.

Just for a bit of fairness, too, Watts may not be the best tackler, but he gets down back at the exhaustion end of quarters and games, and saves goals. Like he did within seconds of his final goal on the QB. He has done that for several years, many times. I have wondered if he was asked to, probably was I suppose, though he doesn't seem to get much credit for doing it. He works very hard, and if you look at any vision of end-of-quarter huddles in the godawful Nield days you'll see Jack intently listening and egging his team-mates on. He is an eminently positive element in the club, and it is just not speaking truthfully to characterise him as a lazy and self-satisfied downhill skier. On here too often we didn't value Jurrah as the unique and very talented creative/offensive player he was, with post after post criticising his defensive work. Might as well bag out Ricky Jackson's ruck work. Or Petracca's tank. Etc. Armchair critics do a wonderful job explaining what they don't rate; reminds me of a lovely anecdote Horowitz told about his father-in-law Toscanini. The great conductor had just done Beethoven and as soon as interval was over he was going to do Mozart - but before he could get to the pit he was bailed up by a society dame who launched into her analysis of what was lacking in Beethoven. Finally unable to listen to any more, Toscanini interrupted, saying "Madam, what you think doesn't matter." Well, rude, yes, but he was obviously right as far as Beethoven goes. Some people assume their own expertise when there is nothing to support it, and they have no shame splashing their ignorance and inanities around. Demonland is not full of supporters; it's full of know-alls who dismiss and slander athletes doing stuff most of these critics cannot understand and have only ever dreamed about. Spout their hairy-chested nonsense shamelessly. So what if the club does get a good deal when they cast Watts aside? Are we in Nield's camp, not seeing them as people? It is a disgrace to cast off a loyal servant who faced up to gorillas in the ruck week after week, surprising everyone with his resilience and effectiveness when so out of his weight, only to end up injured - at which point we are callously and ungratefully hop into him and his failings, completely disregard what he says publicly about his own strong preferences, when he's thrust into the spotlight by the club; and we start haggling over the body and what we might get in the aftermath, even before he's gone. And dignify it with calling it a "forum"! Nah, shout your abuse at my back, and yes, I'll close the door as I leave. I say, shame on the lot of you!

Oh. My. God. So much hysteria over one of the most inconsistent, frustrating bruise free players on our list. Way too much emotion, not enough clear headed, long term, big picture thinking. It's a cliche but I honestly think this trade, should it eventuate, will benefit both player and club. Jack will be a better player at another club, free from the cloud that has hung over him since day one. Go forth my boy and be a free man. For the club, this will be a statement of intent and help shape a new dynamic amongst the players we want to give it their all. For me Watts often sets the tone of the group. He swans into preseason out of shape, he steps onto the ground half cocked and will consciously choose not to put his head over the ball. This attitude, and we've all seen it affects the group. If our co-captain ain't happy then neither am I. Those who want to clasp to the same hope that we've had for this bloke to finally show us some ticker for another year beyond the nine his already had, good luck to you. But for me it's time to show some mongrel.

I really don't give a rats what Roos thinks. He constantly talked about changing the culture on and off the field. Goodwin is taking action and should be applauded. I seriously can't believe how much people are overrating Watts' importance to the team.

I will speculate; It sounds like Jack is a distraction and bad influence on the rest of the team or players through lack of commitment, preperation, buy in etc etc. Maybe the leadership group has had enough along with the coach(s). Its obvious there is frustration there. If this is the case, I can concur. The MFC is serious about contending for a premiership and this behaviour wont be tolerated. If Jack is traded. It raises the bar of what is expected by the MFC and I am sure those who are distracted will refocus.

LOL Hopefully they are thrown in the bin where they belong.

I would think Rawlings has been told he will not get the GC job and is trying to improve his CV by coaching a team outright.

'We have to harden up as a club rah rah rah, that first quarter against Collingwood was unacceptable rah rah rah' How that equals 'have to trade Watts' is where you lose me. Who rocked up in the first quarter of that game for us? That start was an indictment on the team, the leadership group, and the coaching staff in some order. Watts was brought back into that team against the wishes of some and he was one of the few that could walk to the group at qtr time and say 'I did my job in the most important game for this club in 11 years.' He can go, but we better get back that need for skills and vision moving into our forward line this trade period or we are running on the spot.

Can somebody bump the post QB game thread please to verify the schizophrenia of MFC supporters when discussing this brilliant, but poor tackling player.

The idea of Watts being a liability in a finals game is well supported by the way he goes about his footy. A few items: In the 8 years he's been at the club I've never seen him lay consistently hard tackles. Never seen him try to drive out of strong opposition tackles. His second efforts over the years have been appalling in many instances. When there's a pack to crash he goes in with self-preservation front of mind. Sometimes he drags in the mark but never does it with the intent of ensuring the ball comes to ground. He's a great finisher with a sublime kick and reasonable tank but if we're all to take off the rose-coloured glasses and see him what he truly is then I think the argument weighs heavily in the favour of a trade. It'll be unfortunate to see him go but he's plateaued. The ceiling has been hit a few times but never hard enough to cause anything other than a small dent. Ive been on the fence until now but yes, it's time to trade Watts.

I sit half a world away from the Melbourne Football Club but regularly exchange emails with a mate of mine that is much closer to the club. The latest mail says that Hogan is no chance to leave the club at this stage or in the foreseeable future. Watts is a different story. Discussion on a possible trade will only be entertained if we get value for him. Currently, MFC would prefer to keep him on the list and see how he responds. MFC will look to get in Lever plus a 23-25yo mid to build the list for a real tilt at the flag over the next 4-5 years. Take this in any way you wish and keep in mind this is a trade rumours board and that is exactly what this is, a rumour.

I reckon Max Gawn also equals that stat.

While I would like Jack to stay, if you told me we were getting Danger, Martin, Cotchin or Selwood, we would all be screaming in delight. Therefore we would be happy to move him on, as long as we did well out of the deal. Most have said we are happy with the current FD. So, shouldn't we accept that the FD know what they are doing and just hope that they get a good deal, before we burn the joint down?

Again, before we absolutely [censored] our pants over this, let's wait and see what actually happens. All we know is that the club, potentially, has told Jack that we plan to move him on and one club he has visited is Port Adelaide. That's basically all we know at this minute. I know many of us have a soft spot for Jack, and rightly so, but let's not act like children and pot the club when we have no idea (yet) as to what is going on. So, take a chill pill and relax. Be disappointed at Jack being put up for trade, but also consider why this is happening and waiting until we know more.

1 player in that group was unceremoniously dumped in James McDonald. Bruce didn't want a 1 year deal and quit. Green, Grimes and Trengove were all done. What do you want, a parade for them? Dunn was found a new home to allow him to continue his career whilst Melbourne got games in to young players, it was a win win Goodwin is part of a broader list management committee with Todd Viney, will you say he has not historical connection with the MFC? Goodwin was coach in all but name of Jack's break out year in 2016. He's made some strong comments but otherwise supported Watts. I don't think moving him on is the vendetta some make it out to be. I might just be the logical decision to improve the team and the best thing for Watts as well.

He was a top five player last year and was tracking really well this year as well until the injury, we will miss his skills and versatility.

Watts does not lack effort. The problem is that, in our existing structure, it's mostly attacking effort rather than defensive effort. Watts does a helluva lot of running during a game for someone of his size, but a lot of it is offensive running to provide a target, or to take defenders away from the likes of Hogan, and much of it goes unrewarded. He's probably always seen himself as an attacking player, who is meant to win the ball and use it to advantage. These are his great assets, and that's what we bought when we drafted him. So my question is, do our coaches want him to keep up that level of offensive effort, and to massively increase his defensive effort as well? Or do they want him to curtail some of his offensive effort in order to preserve his energy to massively increase his defensive effort? The third alternative is to make much better use of his attacking skills and efforts, as long as the defensive effort is covered across the team as a whole. I believe our coaches don't see it that way, but if he does go elsewhere, that's probably what they'll try to do. Howe at the Pies is a good example - he seems to be a much more effective player at Collingwood, but that's not because they've drastically improved his defensive game - they seem happy to just encourage him to do what he does best, not to try to rein it in to be more defensive. So our coaches have chosen one way, and that just doesn't work for Watts. If Howe is any indication, it looks like Collingwood's coaches choose to make use of a player's strengths and to cover their faults across the team - in other words, to choose their team so that they've got a balance of attacking & defensive skills covered across the 22.

Reading a lot of differing opinions on here. I have been told this from someone on inside a month or so back, that may help why it has come to this..... When we had T.Mac up in forward line with Pedo, or Watts, or Hogan, etc. it was a commonly held opinion at selection that the forward line lacked the finals like, locked down pressure. T.Mac was a big culprit. It placed pressure on the others to do the heavy lifting of providing such pressure. This is where Jack was really exposed. McCartney believes that Jack doesn’t have ‘finals mindset’ in the way he goes about his business. He also was a big advocate in NOT bringing him back for the final game against Collingwood. Hence, from mid year, there were many discussions about Jack, and would he be a liability come finals. This negative talk about him didn’t help that his form had gone down. From a personal view, he will be a very good player in a very good team. Staying could see him at that elite level. But it’s clear the coaching panel have no confidence in him and this has really got through to him now. The major concern has to be, how he return to the club last pre season. He was content with a good year, previous. That attitude is not that of a great player and It’s time for everyone to part ways. Lastly, we can’t demand too much in the way of a trade. His an average to good player. If we get a 2nd rounder and a player, that would be a plus in my book. Anything better would highway robbery!

Watts for pick 29 ? you have to be joking.

Not gutted massively. If you take away the emotional investment he's a player who's gifts are matched by his faults. He's not a Hogan type who you absolutely know what you'll get from. I feel like wherever he goes, he'll improve and be a good player. KP forwards tend to improve in their late 20s and early 30s. But as much as he'll improve, he'll never be a champion. With that in mind, if you're brutal about where we are as a club and how serious we are as a list, then a trade makes sense. Also factor in the sentimental side. He's been a good servant. If it's what he wants, I think he's earned it. Personally I've been all for a trade of him for a number of years, based only really on what he's worth on the open market vs what we get from him if he stays... It's a 50-50 call. He could stay and be solid. He could go and get really good as a player. Who knows. Total crystal ball thing... So with that in mind, it comes down to price. People are saying he's worth a 2nd rounder only, based mostly on how he finished the season. Earlier this year, and at any point from about round 2-16, he was a first rounder easily. KP forwards, albeit odd ones like Jack, don't grow on trees. Anyone that's 195cm and kicks like he does is a known entity, and is definitely worth a first. I have a sneaking suspicion it involves a 2018 Port pick. I feel like that's the trade we're trying to get into, and every other club is trying to get into. So with Port's first rounder this year not available, and a first rounder next year probably way too valuable... I feel like it might be their second rounder this year and next, with a third rounder and Watts from us. Something in that ballpark. Fear not though, folks. The list management at the club aren't spuds anymore. Whatever call they make, I'm confident in. If Watts leaves, it's because they made the call. I can deal with that, sad as it may be. Also. You just never know. Gibbs was supposed to go. Stayed and looks like being a 1 club player. He's not gone just yet, Jack.

If we're seriously shopping Wattsy around we must have some [censored] hot targets in mind. For the last 2 years it's been clear that JW is the ONLY player on our list that can kick to a forward's advantage. Everyone else just kicks anywhere into space, straight at the spare defender, sits it on our FWD's head to get smashed, or holds it up waiting for all the defenders to get back. The one area we lack is skills, JW has sublime kicking skills, but he's well lacking in marking ability. Given he's predominantly a FWD, if he goes we're going to need 2 players to come into the team to replace him (no not a direct swap, other trade deals need to happen). One needs to be able to kick to advantage into F50, Gaff, Hartlett, do they have the skills(?), who else? The other needs to be able to take contested marks and convert, Lynch, Brown would be perfect, a Brisbane kid, who else? I really dread thinking about what's going to happen next year if we lose a skillful player like Jack without replacing his skills. The turnovers, oh the turnovers!

The problem with most first year coaches is that they try to hard. They squeeze the grip too hard, they lack soft hands, they micro manage far too much. Watts loves the club. He is clearly a decent individual. He is talented. He is popular. He is MFC. And, like us, he craves ultimate success at this club. Let him breathe Simon. Give him some space to do it his way (within team rules, obviously). I reckon you'll be rewarded for it if you do. It'll be a sad day if Watts is traded this year. I reckon the movie script will have been cut a few scenes too short.

Nield made several statements of intent too. Simiarly, he only wanted blokes who'd willingly eat road kill and run head first through brick walls (Brent Moloney aside). Whilst this had immediate and superficial appeal to success-starved fans, history shows that it was absolutely the wrong approach. Fortunately Paul Roos took the conch and fixed most of these mistakes. Relevantly, he created a decent club culture. Right now, I don't expect Roos would be seeking to trade Watts, and that concerns me. Not in an emotional sense, but in a clinically rational sense. It could do a lot of damage to the culture of the club and create negativity within the player group. Many Richmond supporters who now think of Dustin Martin as a favourite son wanted him out the door for a first rounder a few years ago. But it's hard to replace talent like that. In this regard, I expect there are far fewer talented players like Jack Watts out there than there are James Magner's and Tom Couch's. And this is why some people here are emotional about this. Watts is our Tom Lynch - he's a gun deliverer of the football, he has great vision and skills, and the club is potentially about to trade him for a pack of cheezels. If this is the case, it does not appear entirely sensible in the medium to long term either, in a rational sense. This is actually big picture thinking IMO. Perhaps it's just a different picture to the one you're looking at.

But he's the best kick on our list.

under bailey - dropped to the vfl under neeld - dropped to the vfl under roos - dropped to the vfl under goodwin - dropped to the vfl you watch - if he goes to port there'll be a puff piece by capel or rucci in december / january in the advertiser about how it's the hardest preseason he's ever had, blah blah blah, and by round 7 he'll be dropped to the sanfl

Both of those 'trades' sucked. History confirms this - neither trade ultimately produced the positive impact/return the MFC wanted. Sure, people get over things, including sickness and death - but history doesn't simply erase responsibility for, and the consequences of, bad desisions. I have been really impressed with Goodwin to date, but, if true, this has the potential to be an atomic mistake, particularly if it is not handled very sensitively with the player group and supporters, and especially if the club does not receive a commensurate player in return. I reckon I'm as passionate and as loyal a supporter as anyone, but this has the potential to inflict major brand damage for me early into the Goodwin years. In short, Goodwin will be setting the bar at an extreme level on this one - he cannot expect any tolerance on his own performance next year if he's not prepared to extend it to key personnel himself. In fact, I just don't bloody need this right now. I'm still coming to terms with our loss to Collingwood in round 23. Need scotch right now ...

we are looking to trade a player who has achieved 1 top 5 B&F finish in 9 years, hardly surprising, i have no idea why some are so shocked

Some of the comments in this thread are genuinely unbelievable. Despite our improvement, we have an undeniable issue with consistency and application. And its been an issue for years. It was an issue when we were improving under Bailey, it was an issue under Roos, and by God it was an issue this year. The one thing we cannot do is do nothing about this. But when we try something, we turn on the coach. Threaten petitions. Threaten to not renew memberships. FFS people!!! If this trade doesnt work, so be it. But at least we tried. And then we can try something else. I've never bought into the whole melbourne supporters accept mediocrity thing, but by the way so many here are pining over a player who after 8 years is not even a star, let alone a supetstar, maybe there is something to it.

Watts is a 9th year talented yet flakey flanker who we chose not to play this year on two seperate occasions due to lack of buy in on required effort and ethic on and off the field. How some can show such hysteria at our want to move him on have obviously forgotten what it felt like missing out in the last round. Any player who is not 100% buying in to do everything necessary on and off the field can get out in my opinion and Watts is the poster boy for it. I am sure what we get (likely a second round pick) people will say is unders but it is right based on his career output and likely output moving forward. The best we can hope for is many clubs decide he is the answer to drive up his value. I will hold to see the overall picture of ins and outs before I hold a view on whether we have improved our list and chance to take the next step and more importantly the ones after it to make it to the last game in September.

If Watts took his job seriously and pushed himself last pre-season in an effort to impress the new incoming coach and an effort to push himself to become elite then this issue wouldn't have come to a head. Stop shifting the blame.

i for one will be disappointed to lose Watts, yes he is hot and cold but i think his kicking in the forward line both at goals and to our players is the best in the team. He obviously has not shone as many would have wanted a number 1 draft pick but I think he provides better value in our forward line than Kent and many others. Part of the problem with Jack is our delivery too him is often not the best, or his leads are not honored. It will be disappointing to see him putting playing against us.

Ah...the quandary...to tick...or not tick..GF guarantee ?? lol Bit like buying extended warranties hehe

Jack is immensely popular amongst the other players. If he is being kicked out, this could ruffle more than just Jacks feathers. It's a horrible move and we will get peanuts for him. This will bite us on the arse.

Funny time of the year. I really like Watts when he plays well, uses his skills, vision etc. Equally he frustrates hugely at times. I don't actually care who we move on, as long as it helps our momentum continue into finals next year. I'd prefer Lever to Watts if that was the choice. Not having a highly talked about player each week might help also, he seems to be the first question to anyone 15 weeks of the year. We moved forward this year, I'm happy to back in Goody and PJ to do again next year. If they think Watts doesn't make a significant difference that's fine. Time to trade, trade hard Demons. Joel Smith to HFF.

That is the real sadness here The Bugger has a lot of talent, that he chose not to use at the MFC

You have got to be kidding about that Roos part. Where would we be without him coming on board? Talk about changing the culture... Goodwin is riding Roos' coattails.

Yeah, nah. There's a slim chance he might not get traded, but it will be more about what the club wants in return and about what potential suitors might offer. Goodwin is building a list on competitiveness and that is a non-negotiable. We all love Jack Watts for what he can do in terms of disposal and decision making, but he simply isn't a competitor in the mould of a Viney, Hogan, Oliver, Petracca etc. I don't blame him he was drafted without much football behind him at all and plays the game very much like a basketballer and not like a footballer. While I'll miss his elite kicking, I won't be screaming at him to keep his feet in a contest.

As i said before. The senior coach is putting his balls right on the line. If Watts is traded we need a gun in return, otherwise he should be kept. I am still angry that Earl Spalding walked for nothing 20 years ago!!

Is this guy for real? Anyone remember this?

A sluggish start, much better through middle of the year, pretty ordinary after returning from injury. However.... No 2. for delivering accurately inside 50 in the AFL! Only bettered by Tex Walker!! No.3 for linked involvements in scoring chains at the MFC One of our most accurate kicks for goal inside 40 meters if not the most! Basically kicked the deciding goal against our old foe on QB weekend FTW (that almost seals it for me ) We can ill afford to lose one of the best ball users by foot in the competition when we are, generally, up amongst the worst! I know there were some issues pre-season in Wattys' preparations, and only Watts has himself to blame here if the rumours were true. If he has cleaned up his alleged acts off the field and is ready for a huge pre-season, then he's a HUGE keeper. This is simply the wrong guy to be putting on the trade table, subject to a self driven clean up. There are more problem players at the MFC, who can't hit anything by foot, or get caught / over use the handball far too often, who i would look at way before Jacky boy. Hitting targets by foot does three things..... Allows the receiving player time/space to assess and either play on immediately or go back and hit the next target either gaining ground or laterally / backwards but maintaining possession and chewing up the clock (if needed). Allows a player inside 50 to do the same and either take a shot at goal or pass it off to a player in a better position (IF he is reasonably accurate by foot) Helps the team control the momentum and direction (slow / fast / switch) of the game and keeps the ball off of a potentially dangerous ball using / running opposition for longer. Giving more 'accurate' ball use to us and keeping the opposition as cold as possible, forcing them to defend, chase and use up valuable energy is a huge advantage and one i would rather have more than less of. DO NOT TRADE!!

Agreed

no top 10 draft picks in the Crows line up. Goody and crew are concentrating on culture and attitude and it's the right way to go Chin up Ox

And overreaction of the year goes to........Socrates! Congratulations! Get a grip dude.

That's the thing, the competition is so close now that often who wins comes down strictly to who brings the effort. You need every player on the ground playing total football, you can't excuse players just because they are better at kicking than tackling. Manic pressure is needed from everyone out there. Watts isn't the only one who faltered on this through the year but he is one of the few who has been doing it repeatedly throughout his career. I just don't get his mindset, he is comfortable being "very good" he doesn't have the desire to be great. Can you imagine what Viney and Jones must think of some of his efforts and preparation? They don't want our younger players picking up those bad habits and seeing that there are no repercussions for failing to address them. You pull your socks up or you can ply your trade elsewhere.

I don't doubt they will be elite. As is GWS midfield. But for 2 years straight they have lost the prelim to two sides who don't have as much talent .. but what they do have are 22 blokes that give everything for 120min. I don't want one skillful individual who is not prepared to be on the same page as 21 other guys. Agree with me or not.. Watts has been on our list long enough now to know that he just will never bring the required effort to make a grand final – and WIN it!

If we offload Jack for a packet of chips i'll spew

he has, as they say, some 'tricks' to the way he plays he cracks in, he can mark, he's a nice kick, and there's a heap to like about him as a player apart from the game where he was clearly hampered with injury, he was also remarkably consistent he can play tall and small, and there's a heap to like about him definitely an astute selection at the draft - the question is now, as a mature ager, how good can he get?