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A disappointing day for Casey today, with a sense of dee-ja vu. From sitting in the new grandstand for the first time at this ground, it was hard to determine whether or not the wind was favoring any end in the first quarter, but the next 3 quarters emphatically answered that question. Goals kicked to the grandstand end after qtr time were 21 to just 3 up the scoreboard end. From the opening bounce, the die was set as Nick Meese, all (alleged) 105 kilos of him, stood his ground like the human tree that he is, Spencer seemed more concerned with his opponents positioning than actually winning the ball, and the hosts cleared the ball out of the middle thanks to an uncontested tap from Groot. This sequence was repeated 4 more times in the first 7 minutes, and the day didn't get any better for free agent Jake. It's one of the worst performances I've seem him put in. So much so that Mitch King, who started deep forward in a tall setup alongside Weideman and Fritsch, ended up spending the majority of the rest of the game as first ruck. Another interesting, but not unprecedented in recent weeks, move was starting Wagner on ball. Losing the important Jimmy Munro to what i can only assume was concussion after backing selflessly into a huge pack from a kick in didn't help our cause in the first quarter either. The ball spent most of the quarter in Willys forward line, as their mids were getting the ball quickly to boot out of the middle, and their half backs were working hard to constantly repel our backline clearances. We were probably lucky to be as close as we were at the first break, but no-one was prepared for the second quarter onslaught that followed. Willy sparked immediately playing long direct forward entries that had our usually reliable captain Hutchins scrambling at shadows, Dyl Collis caught outsized in marking contests and Willy forwards using their knowledge of the grounds wind quirks to kick goals from all angles. We got some respite eventually hitting the scoreboard late in the qtr with 2 goals, one a beautifully curved kick from Fritsch from a set shot. The 3rd quarter saw the roles reversed, all of a sudden Brayshaw was in everything, and was ably supported by Kennedy and Kennedy-Harris. Fritsch's 3rd quarter was sublime, he was playing in front ready for a quick kick out of the centre, and a short time later playing from behind outsmarted 2 defenders taking a mark he had no right to. The coach swung Kielty forward as well to push home the advantage, he had a very good qtr at both ends. Angus Scott popped up as he so often does to be in the right place at the right time toslot a couple, and a long range bomb on the run from Kennedy topped off an astounding comeback qtr. The last started perfectly with Casey hitting the lead with the first goal of the qtr, but that was to be it. All of a sudden the seagulls pressure around the packs lifted, and the goal onslaught began to mirror the 2nd term. 3 free kicks for ruck infringements to the home side inside their forward 50 resulted in 2.1, they were diabolical decisions that had me completely baffled as to how the ruck rules are interpreted. As the skys and my mood darkened, the siren thankfully brought things to a close. I must also add that Williamstown have seemingly the most inept scoreboard operator going around. They completely missed a Willy goal in the 2nd qtr onslaught, then missed a point of theirs in the 3rd qtr, so it appeared scores were even whereas in reality the home side still had the slenderest of margins. Without being privvy to the stats, here's my thoughts on mfc players: 15 Stretch- Tried hard, but found himself running sideways rather than forwards trying to find space to get his kicks away when in possession. Just a game in the end. 26 Weideman- I'm getting sick of Plapps match reports saying that the conditions weren't conducive to Sam's game, I've seen it many times this year. The fact is Fritsch found a way to get on the end of leads and affect many many more contests than Weideman managed to. And just like in the afl, when he found himself clunking one and having a set shot on goal he fluffed it. A wasted stuttering development year. 34 King- Thrust into the majority of the centre bounce work due to Spencils failings, i thought he battled manfully but was ultimately beaten. There's plenty to work with here for the future though, he looks like a future ruckman. Obviously needs to put on several kilos and develop his core strength as he had the chance to take a couple of big pack marks today but couldn't quite hold them. 37 Johnstone -Is a bit harder at the ball than i realised, didn't ultimately have much of it or any discernible impact on the game, but definitely making incremental improvements in his game. 42 Wagner - a surprising start onball didn't ultimately last, he did get a fair bit of it early but his disposal ultimately let him down time and time again. Whether that be an errant kick or a slow looped handball that pressured the recipient, he was his own worst enemy today. 45 Kielty- started slowly but got better as the game went on, taking several crucial intercepting marks. In our best half dozen. 48 Maynard- battled well, albeit a lot of his possessions are in heavy traffic a la Oliver so can go unnoticed. Also pushed forward well to have a few shots on goal. 54 Trengove - played off half back most of the game, was ok. even at this level now his possessions look slow, and a couple of his clearances went out on the full. What can't be disputed is his tackling which was outstanding and his leadership. He pulled all the defenders into a huddle during the 2nd qtr goal spree and tried valiantly to get them to structure up better. 55 Hulett- when i look at stats from his games this year I'm amazed at how little of the ball he has. Today was no different I'd be amazed if he had more than 5 possessions all day. He did lay 2 nice tackles in the 1st qtr once he came off the bench, but that's it. Will be lucky to his spot next week. Delisting looms. 57 Kennedy-Harris- I didn't mind his game, was good in the 2nd/3rd qtrs particularly. His workrate and 2nd efforts have definitely improved this year. 59 Spencer- Possibly the worst game I've seen Jake play.. Banished to full forward/ bench/ relieving King for the last 3 qtrs after his embarrassing opening term. 64 Brayshaw - easily our best today, started off half back, but soon swapped with Wagner and found himself the catalyst for all of our good chains of play. Wether in an under or on the outside, his football smarts, composure and balance stood out for the last 3 quarters. Will be interesting to see if tigers tag him next week. 69 Kennedy- played well after a slow start but wasn't alone there. His ability to get in and extract the footy, as well as find space on the outside meant his workrate was rewarded with plenty of touches. An atypical 2017 vintage BenKen game. 83 Bugg- If Spencer wasn't out there today, he'd be my choice as the most disappointing player of the day. Played I the same wing for the whole game, but was rarely sighted. Not sure if he was being tagged, it's rare to see him have this little impact at vfl level where he usually dominates. Special mention goes to Bailey Fritsch. I know I'm not Robinson Crusoe here in pointing this out, but this kid is seriously talented and could play afl round 1 next year. Listed at 189cm and only 81kg, he somehow plays taller than his thin physique would seemingly allow. He effectively plays as a key forward, yet it's also unmistakable his resemblance to Robbie Flower. Not only does he wear #2 and is a left footer, it's his ability to snake his skinny body through traffic or to outbody an opponent that makes him such a hard matchup. A lay down misere to be drafted. Bring on the tigers!

Dude this is a thread to talk about today's game, get this toxic rubbish out of here

I've already received the 2018 calendar with him on the cover in the mail. What could possibly go wrong?

Very lazy player who often finds himself in space due to the fact he doesn't follow a man wen out of possession. Has had 22 tackles and 15 1%s from 17 games this year. We often criticise Watts and Gartlett for their defensive efforts: Jack Watts 42 tackles from 16 games. Jeff Gartlett 74 tackles from 21 games.

Earlier this year I had the opportunity to ask Brendan MaCartney a question - I asked why we were overusing handball as it was getting us into trouble. He didn't give me a particularly clear answer. I pointed out a game where Watts, Oliver & I forget who had something like 50 handballs & 20 kicks between them & pointed out this wouldn't win us many games. Again I didn't get a clear answer. All my mates have been exasperated by the same thing and at most games fans are screaming to Melbourne players to kick the friggin ball. Against Collingwood there were at least 6 centre bounces where we won the ball & then handballed it around until we turned it over. Now I notice Malthouse's comments about us "a game style that changed dramatically from running the ball to overusing it, too often during games. It seems the penny has dropped for everyone except the coaching staff & the players.

Yes, he is not ours.

Kilt is a reasonable kick. Better than Tom, but probably the same as Oscar. On another note, Fritsch is the one for me. I'd be happy to take him with our second rounder. Kid can play.

Worth Jaksch s**t

Play all our home games at the G. Put all the foriegn sides including richmond back to their shizen and rat infested suburban home grounds.

Of course it is. The email could have been sent to all Members at 5PM last Saturday, had we won the game. Far more practicle than posting a magazine that, A. Arrives after the game is lost, thus negating Finals. B. Arrives after Finals Tickets are have already been sold.

Pretty hard to know unless you're an AFL recruiter, but I know for a fact that the MFC players hope he gets drafted by us. Not only is he freakishly talented for his size, but he has great personality and the boys love him.

So he already has a handle on game plan and culture. It's a yes from me.

With hand on heart ENYAW, I have not seen a worse player to get a game of AFL in the last three years. The very worst example of Silvani's GWS off-cuts plan.

This reminds me of the arguments I had with peanuts on here in 2007.

Well its clear then, if your mates have settled it. What exactly is the cause of our problem as you would see it? Because I know what I see and the simple stats in the OP make it irrefutable. We are terrible at one on ones in the defensive 50. The worst in the league in fact. Not even in dispute. Given Jetta and Hunt are excellent one on one defenders that doesn't leave too many does it? And when we get thrashed by the likes of Daniher, Brown, Grundy (when fwd), Cox, Walker and Buddy its pretty obvious where the problem is. Some here are trying to argue that our defence is great and its our midfield that is the problem. It doesn't hold water and our clearance stats are pretty good (we are 4th for overall clearances, 4th for centre clearances and 6th for stoppages). Some don't want to see that and their perogative. But its wrong. Its wrong with what we see week after week and its wrong with the stats that make it clear as day. As for this statement about OMac "I think he has improved remarkably and will be a star". I'm afraid you are delusional if you really think that. He has improved no doubt. No one I have read has denied that. But he is barely adequate as a defender and has no urgency or physical presence.

Slow one paced mids = penchant for congestion = need to handball more often. Do the maths. SEN and Coincidenceland are anti-handball lots. The "just kick it" mentality of the red-seats is the lowest common denominator in football. My fellow tiger supporters microwave memberships, but we don't yell out "just kick it". That died when Hafey went to Collingwood. If you put 20 footballers in a 15m x 15m space, I challenge you to get away with a clean kick. Geography, physics and common-sense.

So, in summary, we lack kicking skills, outside run, inside grunt, ability to spread from a contest, ability to offer leads up forward, ability to spot leads that are offered, and lets not forget our defence has gaping holes all day.

Vander Haar's third just before the final siren put the seal on the victory. The Demons are on their way to what will be the last VFL Development League grand final. AFL Vic Development League 2017 Casey Demons 2.2.14 4.6.30 5.11.41 9.14.68 Port Melbourne 1.2.8 3.5.23 4.8.32 5.13.43 Goals Casey Demons Vander Haar 3 Gardiner 2 Baker Cottee Cox Freeman

I wonder if this kid will even make it through to our second pick. He does look the goods, and he wouldn't have went unnoticed among other clubs this year.

Clarko is right. But half of good kicking is having someone to kick it to. We need to be better able to provide options for the kicker.

Bayley Fritsch

Our skills by foot are also atrocious (bar a few of course). Clarkson is renowned for saying "if you can't kick, you can't play". It makes me wonder how many of our best 22 would fit into his lineup. Is one reason for this because our team also trains by overusing the handball? I hope over the off season the coaches revisit the basics of spreading, kicking and rapidly hitting lead up targets. The club also needs to look into getting a kicking coach (or at least place some emphasis on kicking technique).

Breaking free into space to kick the ball requires two things: longer handballs to players who have spread quickly into space, or outright strength and speed to run the ball into space. Clearly other sides have put work into us to slow down our handball release. And we lack the players to bust into space with run and grunt. We also lack players ahead of the ball who know how to find space. (We also lack ball carriers who can hit those players in space.) I'm not convinced starting more players behind the ball is ultimately sustainable unless we can free up players ahead of the ball. Peter, Paul, etc. It's got to be a shock tactic used sporadically. I think we are on the right track - fingers crossed - and natural development still has its work to do. Ultimately I think we have a few too many physically undersized players who don't look like reaching a big enough size. I also think we lack two zone busting speed merchants. Hopefully our footy department knows we lack grunt and outright speed.

Port Melbourne, with the advantage of a slight breeze, kicked the first goal of the final term but the Demons have put in a withering burst of four goals to blow the Borough off the park. 60 - 38.

They kept Liam Jones and delisted this guy. I think that tells you all you need to know.

I don't enjoy being the butt of jokes. Living in WA, I've absolutely copped it the whole week following the Eagles getting up. At work, at footy training, via bookface, text messages etc. This 'Finals' fiasco has just rubbed extra salt into the wound. I can't see the club as anything other than amateur right now.

Lol. Where? Somehow I don't think a forwardline of two Macs, Hogan, Weed, Pedo and Watts is going to work..

Ive rejigged the side into positions I think would give us a new lease of life and more Benefit going forward. Hunt and Hibberd on the wings for a more attacking mindset. Lever at CHB and Watts in Vince's old position. J. Smith who I rate very highly could even take OMacs spot if he doesn't come up. Jetta OMac Watts Brayshaw Lever Salem Hibberd Oliver Hunt Petracca TMac Melksham Garlett. Hogan Pederson Gawn Viney Jones Joel Smith, Lewis, Harmes ,ANB

Draft well and pick up Kelly Lever and gaff in trade week.

Hoping Simon Goodwin gets his playbook back from the person that stole it 12 weeks ago.

Unsure about Keilty but you make a very point and one I've been banging on about for ages. Kicking efficiency is horrible on our list & we only have two blokes out of our whole squad that I'd trust with ball in hand. Ironically it's Watts and Salem, two that people want to trade. Hawthorn recruited and drafted elite kicks and built a game plan around it, which they could execute. Some of our players disposal efficiency looks good only because of overhandballing and cheap handballs out the back but anyone who watches a game live knows our kicking is generally horrible. It's one of the main reasons we finished 9th instead of 1st this year IMO. Effort being the second reason. A lot of times we brought effort but couldn't hit the side of a barn. It's a big issue that needs to be addressed quickly.

To go home from every game satisfied that I have seen every Melbourne player give 100 % for the entire time they are on the field.

fixed

It's basically word for word what the whisperer dude said on twitter. Robbo is a joke. get this, he blocked me on twitter because I asked if he knew what a shower was.

And now they win the Rising Star with the player they got for being drug cheats. What a heartwarming story of battling against adversity, what heroes, what role models.

What won't work, in my opinion. Firstly, we don't have Lever and Motlop and are no certainties to get them. Let's stick to what we've got and make that work better. OMac was a revelation this year, particularly his ability to win the ball, remain calm and look for options. Frost's hard running ability and sheer speed, if properly harnessed, could be a weapon. Secondly, Jesse Hogan is far too smart as a footballer to waste at FB. He would have made a great older style CHB like Neitz or Roos with a licence to roam. But in today's footy, this is not allowed and he would also be wasted at CHB having to mark opponents. He has a great football brain (which is seemingly never acknowledged) and it would be better to let the opposition try to mark him when he controls the forward line as I have previously suggested on multiple occasions. Monoccular gets it. Thirdly, the Weed is not read yet for such an important role and would probably benefit from a change to the backline for a year where he could be more involved in the game. Fourthly, with a more dominant Hogan, Petracca should blossom as a key forward. He can mark, kick and monster opponents and, like the young Jones, if he doesn't get the ball, no one does. He holds the ball in the forward line and provides more scoring opportunities, if we are good enough. That's all for now.

I have said all year our defence leaks goals. Yet again we got taken to the cleaners. The elephant in the room are our key tall backs. Hibberd has had a great year. Jetta is outstanding, Hunt has done well but OMac and Frost while doing some good things have been toweled up by bigger bodied tall fwds like Brown, Roughhead, Walker, Daniher, Reiwoldt, Casboult, Hawkins etc We desperately need a Lever. Facts are: 1. teams score 53% of the time they enter our fwd 50 - last in the AFL 2. We lose 35% of defensive one on ones - last in the AFL You cannot win finals with a defence like that. In fact you will struggle to make finals. OMac is simply a liability. May become a footballer one day but gets outbodied regularly, has no urgency or intensity and frankly plays a lot of dumb football. He flies to spoil and either misses the ball or or hits it straight into a dangerous spot like the corridor. Plenty on here bang on about what a massive improvement he has made this year but I maintain if we had a decent tall back he wouldn't be playing. Frost has some great attributes but makes a lot of errors spoiling. leaving his man, fumbling and taking on more than he can chew. We cannot take a contested mark to save ourselves. We rank 17th in contested marks. Clearly we have had to move TMac to the fwd line and so rob our defence but the evidence is pretty clear that he makes a good forward and so won't be returning any time soon. Until we fix our defence we aren't going anywhere. Throw the kitchen sink at Lever.

Devon Smith is Devon Smith is basically gone....his issue is more of around midfield time rather than coin. If Kelly stays you can take it to the bank that Smith will go

Can we clone a male version of Daisy? a true leader who just leads her team well, doesn't go missing, kicks goals and dominate a midfield. 24 touches and a goal in the 1st half Its also nice to see hair buns on the footy field that don't look out of place.

For those not so enamoured with getting Lever...think Josh Gibson, who would have guessed he would be the player he became. Yet this guy is a no brainer, at worst he's going to be a very good player. We're cherry picking to build a team people. We either sit on our hands or do something proactive. The football department have marked KPD as a weakness from last season, this hasn't changed. I like the approach, we need some class down back.

Is Mark Robinson GNF?

Yep 100% agree. Really only Oliver is an A grader ATM. Plus we have focused so much on contested ball winners we really lack outside skill. As you say any side with really good midfields hurt us, even if they are otherwise not that strong. Brisbane, North and the pies come to mind. But the situation was made worse by Gawn's dramatic drop off in form and influence. He must have been carrying injuries as he first half of the Port game was the only time post his hammy he was anywhere near his best. And then he got injured again. And Ports midfield dragged them back into the game.

I really like the womens footy. Be good if vic win even though my favourite player is Elise O'Dea.

The truly disappointing thing is....in our guts....we just know.

Off to a 3 week business trip tomorrow OS. For the past few months been wondering whether I should have put if off given our best chance to make finals for over a decade though this is the ideal time for me to go. Then I rationalised to myself that maybe I would be back with us deep into the finals. Turned out I could not have made a wiser decision.

Because we don't kick enough and try to handball in and out of our way through congestion foot skills are [censored] house this is why we are ranked last.

Ball movement is not about the speed of your players.

Look i'm over it Jnr. I couldn't really care less anymore. But honestly i don't understand how you can see things so black and white, no pun intended. Yes the pies took 7 marks in their forward 50 and yes Cox and Grundy smashed us. But honestly, i don't mean to be rude but it just way to simplistic to simply blame the defenders for this. They were poor as it turns out. Only jetta of the back six got close to a pass mark. The rest were average particularly Hibberd, Tmac and Hunt. Ironically enough despite this we still kept them to under 100 points (just) and once again couldn't muster a winning score. But for god's sake the midfield pressure was appalling in the first quarter, when all the damage was done. Woeful. We were down 10 contested possessions at quarter time. Ten!. We were at least that many tackles down. We didn't lay our first tackle until the 20 minute mark of the fist quarter. 20 minutes of AFL football without a single tackle! We only laid 3 for the whole first quarter. Unforgivable. Grundy smashed us? No wonder given Gawn barely could stay with him all day. Gawn's defensive pressure was appalling. His job is to ensure the opposition ruckman don't swan in their forward line and get easy marks. Martin also toweled him up. I just hope injury is to blame. There is lot of love for lever on this site and i'm also keen to get him. But their defence gave up 100 points against a low scoring side and were dominated in the first half. Was that because they their defence as poor? No of course not. It was because as we could all see, like us against the pies, the crows simply did not apply anywhere near enough pressure all over the ground, but particularly through the mid field. Lever won't help a jot if we play like we did last Saturday. And if we don't bring the required pressure every game we also won't fully benefit from his real skill which is his intercept marking. Like Rance he is at his most dangerous when the opposition are forced to kick under pressure into their 50 like we were by Brisbane and the Pies. Such kicks rarely hit targets or go to a forwards advantage and are easy picking for players like Lever, Rance and dare i say it Howe. Sides putting more pressure on than us than we do on them mean that it is not just down back we get out marked. We got out marked all over the bloody ground for the last 9 games of thew season. But sure Jnr blame the defenders, in particular the talls. And let yourself believe that lever will fix our problems. Knock yourself out. For me i'd rather take a more nuanced, dare i say it modern approach to analysing what the problem is and therefore what the solution might be. As Goody will be no doubt. I think a really good question is the one BB alludes to above. Is our zone system the right one? And the corollary does our game plan measure up? Our game plan completely depends on manic pressure. As we have seen since the dogs game any drop off in that pressure exposes our zone defence, in part because as BB notes it allows teams to move the ball quickly through the corridor. Lever will help no doubt as he will cut off some attacks but we saw in the crows wc game it still won't be enough if we don't apply sufficient all team pressure. The other problem with our game plan and aggressive zoning is that poor disposal and turnovers exposes us on the rebound, much more so than say the pies or teams with less aggressive zones. Buckley has been often been criticized for not being tactically savy or up with modern approaches. An example is he plays a much more traditional man on man defence. But the advantage of that approach is that it offers protection against quick ball movement and turnovers as defenders are better placed to avoid getting caught in no man's land. We saw this on Saturday when they were able to stymie us and not allow forward space even when we moved the ball quickly. Dunn thrives on this approach and played really well on Saturday. I really wonder if Goody's game plan is the right one. It is very taxing and depends on having players who do not tun the ball over a lot. But i also wonder if our wretched run with injuries should be factored in when assessing its effectiveness as should the fact that it is far from bedded down and is work in progress. I hate to say it but Richmond are playing exactly the game we aspire too. Manic pressure all over the ground. Pressure that means sides dump kick into their forward half and often into the tigers hands. Intense forward pressure that traps the ball there. Aggressive zone defence. Unusual forward leading patterns. Cross the ball and hold it until there is an opening and then move the ball super fast and run in waves. Hard gut running, particularly defensive running. But they have a great run with injury and have by in large better users of the a ball. Still they are the template for us. And i expect we will look to use that template. But i'm out. I'm not going to comment any more on this topic. Let's agree to disagree and move on to trade rumours and who to draft.

Talking draft picks in August..