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I loved watching David Neitz play and think he was a champion but he is underrated by many in the football world. The link below recognizes how his teammates saw him. David retired when a neck injury ended his career. He was entitled to a career ending injury payout of several hundred thousand dollars at the time but didn't claim it because of the Club's dire financial situation. I hope we've paid him now that we are financially stable. He's up there with my three favourite players and deserves his own thread after being inducted into the MFC Hall of Fame. Congratulations Neita, loved watching you big fella, one of my heroes. http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2017-05-31/what-they-said-about-david-neitz-

Simon Goodwin’s post-match interview after Saturday’s game in Alice suggests that he may have been watching a different game to almost everyone else. It got me thinking about the post-match routine I have established to capture other’s thoughts and exactly how much credibility I give to different sources. In this post, I’ve summed up some of the differences between Goodie’s post-match sentiment and the sentiment in George from the Outer’s report. I’ve touched on the framework I tend to use when analysing games (contests and transitions) and then listed my go-to sources for post-match reviews. For the Alice match against the Suns, Simon used expressions such as: “I’m very proud of the victory “We were really happy with the way we were playing in the first half in a lot of ways (and I know that that sounds a bit strange).” “At no stage did we feel like we were out of the contest.” “We made a lot of blues in the first half… we couldn’t connect with our ball use” “It was really just doing the simple things well.” Compare this to “What the Dickens” - another well researched, considered and entertaining read from “George in the Outer”. “Once again, Melbourne got off to a shocker of a start in the game.” “Sadly, forwards played behind their men, dinky kicks were persisted with, instead of long telling kicks, handballs went sideways” “they (Jones and Hibberd) simply dragged the Demons out of the foolishness that they had offered in the first two quarters” Maybe I’m quite unusual, but I love analysing games and try to understand why one team outscores the other. The way I look at a game, it’s a series of contests joined by transitions. Which team wins a specific contest depends on the number of players each team has at the contest, the athleticism and skill of each of those players, the system adopted (like where the players position themselves, which players are tagged, etc) and always an element of random luck. Usually, the luck evens itself out over a match. Transition is the phase when one team has won possession from a contest and starts to move the ball towards their goal. They can either be free-flowing, such as plays when Jayden is running with the ball freely off the half-back line, or under pressure, such as plays when you see a desperate chain of handpasses trying to find a loose, outside player. When planning a game, I imagine that the coaching panel establishes assumptions about the strengths and weaknesses of their own team and the opposition team in contests and transitions, and develops tactics for accentuating the positives and eliminating the negatives. This is how I understand the term “role” that players refer to, where players are told to refine their normal style of play in both contests and transitions to accentuate the positives for the team. After the match is a time to review and analyse the accuracy of those assumptions (i.e. player performance compared to expectations) and consider how to update those assumptions. This is the analysis that I’m particularly interested in. So, where should a “tragic demon” such a myself go to conduct one’s own analysis and reflection on games? Personally, I seek out the following reports every week, rightly or wrongly. Simon’s Post-Match Interview This is my most valued source of information as it is closest to the game plan’s architects and their underlying assumptions, as well as the beginnings of post-match analysis and review. I’m aware that the coaches sit down a day or two after a match, watch the videos and “code” the match, which I assume is the codification of every contest and transition. Perhaps it’s only after this review and analysis that the underlying assumptions can be truly assessed, which really underscores the premature nature of the post-match interviews. I’m also aware that the post-match interviews usually are tinted with a certain “spin” as honesty will create all sorts of headaches that the team doesn’t need. Demonland’s Featured Articles Let me say this to the administrators: these articles are gold, extremely well written and readable and significantly more insightful than all newspapers’ match reports - thank you! The feature of these articles compared to newspaper articles is that the Demonland authors have a far deeper understanding of our team and our players, and write their reports with analysis of what the team did right or wrong. The downside of the Demonland articles, I presume, is that the writers don’t have the insights to the coaches’ game plans and underlying assumptions, and what roles are assigned to different players. Like the rest of us, they can only presume what the coaches were thinking. Jordan Lewis on AFL 360 I love how well Lewie articulates the team insights and appreciate the respectful conversation with Jack Riewoldt. On the downside, there may be only 5 minutes of Melbourne discussion and what they discuss is haphazard and influenced by Mark Robinson, who I and many others don’t rate as a football intellectual. At least these interviews occur after the match review. Lewie was a bit of a tease a couple of weeks back when he referred to some of the team’s KPIs, where the team was scoring well in most of them (such as contested possession) but underperforming in others which he wasn’t prepared to share. Joeboy’s 3-Word Analysis These are bad enough to be good, and thank Joeboy, I enjoy reading them and look forward to them. I’m intrigued by the challenge of summing up each player’s 100 minutes of effort in 3 words with no insights into roles and game plans and no post-match analysis. What I like about it is that it reviews every player and provides perspectives that I haven’t necessarily seen. The AFL Coaches Association Votes I enjoy reading these as I respect the coaches’ football knowledge and their brief insights into which players performed particularly challenging roles. I’m presuming that they downgrade the “bling” such as an outside player who receives easy goals, but then again, Jack Riewoldt scored 10 for the ANZAC Eve match for kicking 6:2 from 12 disposals with a few of those on the rebound with loose marking from Melbourne defenders. Demonland Player of the Year Votes I have to admit to skimming just the first page or 2 of these votes. I really like that different supporters see different qualities in the players and maybe have different assumptions about player roles. The comments are particularly interesting, though I tend to only skim the votes with numbers only. So this is my list of where I go for post-match analyses. Where do others go for their reviews?

A big step from being a hero on a footy field to one in a crisis like this - Former Demon in mid-air rescue Well done Chelly

I took my kids to the club family night at Malvern last night with all players in attendance apart from Jesse. The club excels at providing events like this to engage with its younger members, families and in their search for new members. All players were approachable and fun to talk to despite putting up with the monotonous task of posing for hundreds of photos and signing of guernseys. This wasn't an event with scheduled activities it was like a walk in the park and meet your idol. I did get a few minutes to talk to Jetta and despite the contrast in opinion on demonland , the club is happy with the season so far. He stated to me the obvious inconsistencies come down to pressure. When the opposition "Brings it" we are a little unsure of how to counter it. I said to Nev when all of us at the game leave after those close losses we feel just as tired as the players cause we see the effort they put in and to fall short pains us just as much. He responded by saying that the effort all year has been there no doubt and I agreed. Also talked about the Richmond loss and he said the boys were basically treading water in the last cause they worked so hard with limited rotations. If Spencer has stayed fit we win that game he said. He praised the work of the midfield and forward line in the Suns game as they made the job of the backline easy when the game turned in the 3rd. I quoted Lewis to him in regards to the ground size of the ground in Alice and he told me it's longer than Domain and wider than MCG. Im bringing this point up because when we were watching on TV the camera was low and the angles or distances between players was misleading so when we saw a suns player dance on a 20 cent piece around Tyson and Lewis in the middle of the ground it wasn't as bad as it looked. This is not much of an insight but thought I'd post it for a bit of reading since it's a quiet weekend for us. Once again well done to the MFC for events such as these, my kids couldn't wipe the smiles off their faces all afternoon.

Lowest half time score in Hawthorn's history. Nice

I love the footy smarts and general warm banter (drivel) that we share on here, and I really should breathe before I post. But most posting here have no effin clue about the Police. You have no idea how lucky you are and how dedicated the Police are that serve Victoria, that you pay for through your taxes, but you are getting value for money I can assure you. First of all - the Police approach to the use of force. "The success of a mission will be judged by the extant to which the use of force is minimised" (its been 10 years since I read that but I think I'm fairly close) The forward commander has to interact with an aircraft (you know a big thing with tonnes of flammable liquid and a few 100 people trapped inside) and a report of a bomb. Information received. It is not just an offender - there are two problems - someone offering a threat and the possibility of an explosive device. Fixing one does not fix the other and there is no bomb tech on the plane. There can be no assumptions in the response of the forward commander, unless lives are being actively lost/threatened, then every single piece of information about the device should be considered and evaluated and responded to. A bomb expert would need to process all this information to make an informed decision and then pass to the forward commander for a decision - how many of you have made a decision about the safety of someone elses life (and I'm not talking about driving your family around). Storming the plane might just set a bomb off, until you have verified that is unlikely why would you rush in the absence of any immediate threat to life. Would posters here prefer everyone go out in blaze of glory, so that we can have a high profile viking funeral for 330 passengers and crew and the Police response team. Fair diunkum...no effin idea, just say thank you that you live in Victoria. Get over the media drivel on timelines, utter utter garbage.

Welcome to Dan Andrew's Victoria where crime is out of control. Well done Chelly. So they notify the tower and fly back to Melbourne (60m) and then wait another 90mins before police boarded the plane. Lucky it wasn't an emergency. Not quite as bad as the pathetic Lindt cafe seige respomse but seriously our law enforcement command in this country needs a giant rocket up their backsides.

Apart from Rory Thompson, Jordan Roughead and Jake Carlisle, there are no 200cm defenders. Talia is 197cm, Hurley is 193cm, Hooker is 197cm, Taylor is 195cm, Henderson is 196cm, Day is 197cm, May is 193cm, Davis is 197cm, Rance is 194cm, McGovern is 195cm. Of those i'd say that Talia, Hurley, May and McGovern play the more traditional role of FB (average height = 194.5cm) Carlisle isn't setting the world on fire, Roughead is perpetually injured and Thompson has also struggled to get on the park recently. It seems that anywhere between 193-197cm is a good height for a fullback and Lever is right in the middle at 195cm.

Great defensive pressure from 'Cell. He's still got it!

He says " please kick a goal " when a Hawks player has a ping. Why ??? If you want to barrack for a team Bruce, go and sit in the outer.

Constantly amazed and impressed by the analysis of many posters on this site. I am not talking about the on-going criticism or opinions of certain players but the comments particularly the post match comments. The comments take different angles but are normally much more informative and interesting than any media stuff.

I've posted on this before - I've lived with clinical depression for a few years now. I posted a few times in Mitch threads, it was mostly respectful as you say, with only the occasional exception. This is the best way I've found so far of trying to express it to those who don't have it Honestly most days I'm just happy I can function as a human being and do normal stuff - go to work, pick up the kids from school etc. There was a stretch where I couldn't so much as play with my own kids. I can't speak for Fasolo, but if he's managing to even GET to training, that's a massively positive sign that he can get back on the park. Best of luck to him.

Yes, misplaced comment, it wasn't meant to offend and if it did I apologise. I just find comments about "mental weakness" offensive when the person making the accusation has no idea what the mental state of the person is. The point I was making is I don't think Jack is mentally weak at all, in fact, quite the opposite. But again, apologies to Alex, I wouldn't wish depression on anyone.

Agree. I'd add mentally weak players don't gut run the way Watts does or consistently take the risks Watts often takes with his kicking, for example kicking into the corridor. Yes he has the skills to do it but it take mental strength to take that risk as often as he does and block out the fear of making a mistake that could cost us a goal, particularly given the scrutiny he has always faced and that fact that some football fans seem to revel in any mistake he makes. The other thing that takes mental strength is backing up week in week out in one of the most physically taxing professional sports. I have made this point before but Watts must incredibly resilient and obviously very professional in terms of how he prepares and recovers. Since his debut in mid 2009 the dees have played somewhere in the vicinity of 176 games. Watts has played in 147 of them, including every game last year and every game this year. That takes mental strength.

Upgrade is an understatement. Adelaide supporters talk Lever up as their next captain. He will be a perennial All australian. He is 195cm, and he will out body and outsmart any forward he pays on, whether they are 200cm or 190. If the MFC land him it will be party time.

What was it about Jack's game that you found so upsetting? 20 possessions (9th highest and he's not a mid), 8 of them contested (equal 8th highest in the team), second highest for marks and contested marks, equal 10th for tackles (and he's not a mid) and equal top for goal assists. He's playing out of position because Hogan and Gawn aren't playing and he's played rucking for a lot of the season. Pretty half hearted rucking against people much bigger and heavier don't you think? I doubt this will cause many to change their view because those that criticize want him to do things differently but what surprises me is some who can't see that what he does is so very valuable to the team and he does what few can. The prospect of trading out these skills would reduce our chances of winning flag significantly. I think it's unlikely we win on Saturday if Watts didn't play and Jack Hill the blind miner can see he's playing very sore. I was at the game and thought he played just ok. When I read the criticism of him (and Oscar who I like) on here I looked closely at their games. I thought Watts was terrific and I thought Oscar had a mare. Those who want Watts gone miss the point that a team is made up of many different things and Jack offers some of those things in spades. And the things he offers are very rare. Trading him would be a horrendous mistake in my opinion.

what a genius move it was drafting vickery

For what it's worth Glenn Luff (champion data) and David King gave Lever a huge rap on SEN this afternoon. Mentioned that his numbers as a defender were already elite and that he was tracking along a similar path as Rance in his youth. Love to see him in the red and blue.

Hey Demons. Look at Port. This is how you play the 1st Quarter...

Thankless task. Those at the coal face put their bodies and lives on the line in an increasingly dangerous world. In the old days they would "walk the beat" to break up fights and maintain order. Most louts stopped when they saw the boys in blue. However, police are now subjected to unprovoked attacks from gangs and simply those under the influence alcohol and drugs. They are also at the front line of terrorist attacks and attacks from deranged individuals many of whom carry weapons. In the City of Melbourne, it has become increasingly difficult to roster police to walk the beat because of unprovoked attacks. They are increasingly required to bring in officers from the wider metropolitan area and even country stations. Like all organizations there are some rotten apples but the majority of police officers are decent individuals with all the same feelings and attitudes like the rest of us. Unfortunately, have a high rate of suicide, PTSD and other mental health issues and many leave the force never to work again. Most of us would not last a day in the job.

guess the cops will need counselling now

Contrary to popular belief, going through mental illness actually usually takes a serious amount of mental strength. The state of mind of someone with a mental illness can however be very fragile, that shouldn't be mistaken for weakness. I think you understand this but just wanted to point it out, certainly with no accusation to you though, this just seemed a good place to put this. To put it in a physical sense having a mental illness (which I haven't had but have people close to me who have) is like you are carrying around a 50kg sack all day while most of the rest of the population carry around 25kg. If you add something to the situation of everyone (such as a death of someone, or terrorist attack, or even something seemingly small) which adds 5kg to everyone's sack then the people carrying 50kg are going to struggle while the others don't. If you then add more weight the people carrying 50kg may break and be seen as weak even though they are actually carrying more than everyone else, and many people wouldn't even get to the 50kg stage before breaking. Living with a chronic illness is similar, there is a background amount of effort required that others don't have to deal with and little things to everyone else can be massive things due to that background weight. Sorry for the ramble but I think respectful conversations on topics like this are great for bringing more understanding.

Late last year Eddie slipped past Wiz on games / goals but their records are remarkably similar. Farmer played 249 games for 483 goals; Eddie has 14 more games and 27 more goals, with both averaging 1.94 goals a game. Milne's record surpasses both - 275 games for 574 goals at 2.09 goals a game. Interestingly, Jeffy (277 goals from 156 games) has more goals in fewer games than Cyril (273 goals from 185 games).

And hes still available. Manager said: Currently way off signing. Issues surrounding total player payments (as in incremental rises in salary commensurate with those stated in the CBA) Adelaide is not willing to offer that up Contract talks haven't even started as a result. https://www.sen.com.au/news/2017/06/01/in-demand-crows-contract-talks-have-stalled/

Follow Chook Fowler - I'll learn ya.

I love the post match threads days later, when people have had an opportunity to calm down and watch the replay. It is usually absolute pox immediately after the game with the exception of Wiseblood and a couple of others who seem capable of regulating their emotions.

That's the sort of amateurish [censored] that gets people killed

was always an explosive player, ron

Also, we should remember that when a coach talks publicly about a game he is talking to a number of different people 1. The players. It is one thing to say things behind closed doors to players, it is another to praise/criticise in public. There are often hidden meaning we wouldn't necessarily understand 2. The Other coaches: ditto the players 3. The Board. 4. The demon fans 5. The press. And I think it is in that order. All of them have their own interests and all have to be catered for. There are often very specific things coaches want out of these utterances, and the Press in particular are nearly always will messengers.

Kelly. Put Kelly in our midfield and you wouldn't need any defenders, the ball would never be down there.

Wondering what he'd look like in a Dees jumper? Wonder no more.

A lot of talk about the quality of Oscar McDonald. I think it's important to see how the development of key defenders is generally different to most players. Oscar gets pushed around a bit by the really powerful tall forwards (Hawkins is one) but he competes a hell of a lot better with them than almost every key defender of his age and experience. At this point in their careers (just turned 21 years old): Frawley was playing as a medium defender (on smaller marking players), Tom Mc was playing as a back up to Frawley and Dunn, Harry Taylor was not yet drafted Brian Lake was still undrafted (and was still Brian Harris!) Heath Grundy had played 11 games in 3 years as a forward. His games were ... underwhelming. Ted Richards has played 12 games at Essendon as a forward. Very underwhelming. Josh Gibson had not yet debuted (and would not debut for another year too) Ben Stratton had not yet been drafted. Zac Dawson spent that season and the following season in the Hawthorn VFL team. Sam Fisher had not yet been drafted Ben Rutten had played 2 games as a struggling forward. Dale Morris was still a year away from being drafted in the rookie draft. Rance had just rejoined the team having spent the majority of the previous year in the VFL (he was being kept of the AFL side by Luke McGuane, Kelvin Moore and Will Thursfield!) Scott Thompson was still not yet drafted Sam Rowe was still 4 years away from being drafted! Jeremy McGovern was still a year away from being drafted Now, far be it for me to labour a point, but it takes key defenders a lot longer than most players to develop into AFL standard (even the exceptional ones) because their job involves being able to physically compete with big, physically strong opponents. Oscar does this very well at this stage, given that he is not yet fully physically developed. He is tracking waaaaaaaaayyyyyyy ahead of where he should be at this stage. We're very lucky there.

Jeff White’s against the Bulldogs to send us into the finals series. Loved that one.

Toumpas has been the difference tonight.

You and I often disagree on such matters, Biff, but on most of your comments here, I'm in complete agreement. Can't believe how soft we are on potential terrorists. That fruitcake responsible for the Lindt café should have been in jail, as should have the Manchester madman. I'm as liberal and progressive as they come on most matters, and I'm very supportive of the 99.9% of local Muslims who want peace as much as I do, but it should be against the law to make favourable comments about a group of homicidal maniacs like Isis, or to wave their flags about. It should also be against the law to even look at their material on line - sounds difficult to police, I suppose, but we do it for paedophile material, we should do the same for them. Many of my Muslim friends feel just as strongly as I do. I also think Mark Zuckerberg should be charged as an accessory - incredible how Facebook will sell your most intimate details to the highest bidder, and yet they refuse to co-operate with security forces or stop killers spreading their vile propaganda.

Since everyone here seems to have been fully appraised of the situation, what was the information at that time that had been passed onto the police? Unfortunately it's not like the movies, the tactical operators aren't just going to run in guns blazing without having a full briefing of the situation. There's a lot more that goes into a situation like this than what anyone here can appreciate, especially given the mention of a bomb and the plane being blown up. By all means though, sit back behind the safety of your phone or computer and continue to make quality donut jokes.

I'm taking the mrs out for a few drinks this weekend! Booked the babysitter in She asked where did this come from?? hasnt figured out its the bye round yet :-)

My sources confirm that Batman and Robin were called to deal with the highjacker but were held up because they were fighting a penguin at St Kilda pier.

Same here. Though 99.9% of people know that having a mental health issue says zero about someone's mental strength. Well perhaps not zero. It suggests perhaps they are in fact likely to be very mentally strong given how difficult it can be to live with mental health issues. By the by the sun in dag control: http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/more-news/herald-sun-chief-football-writer-mark-robinson-apologises-for-alex-fasolo-tweet/news-story/de44beae7097ce7e4e5a3b93120cb7a7 What a moron. They shouldn't let him file his articles from the pub.

You don't think most of that info couldn't have ALREADY been conveyed to the ground. The nuff nuff was restrained. AIr crew could resume talking to the cockpit etc. This just has ballz up painted all over it. The response team should have been ready and waiting for that plane.. should have already been pretty well worded up..I mean ffs it's what they're supposed to do ..isn;t it ?

1) It might be possible to argue anyone running towards the cockpit yelling I have a bomb and am going to blow you up might just qualify him as a .....terrorist. You aren't to know his bonefide until later ( if you're lucky ) 2) All terrorists are looneys !!

so 60 min + 90 min since they were first informed.....outstanding effort.....and not one orange bellied parrot harmed

It's difficult to get insight from watching the game on TV, particularly poxtel, as the camera work is based upon the 'looking through a moving keyhole' film genre. You'd think short of being at the game, TV would be the most direct way of reading the play and understanding strategies. Post game pressers from coach and players are good as they've had less time to homogenise their thoughts and are often quite honest. Personally, I go to the finest post match analysers I know: BBO and Biffen. They do their best work after 15+ frosties, which isn't saying much I guess...

Not related to today's training, but based on experience of previous years, can anyone tell me what the training arrangement is in the lead up to the Queen's Birthday game. My son and I will be down from Sydney (arriving around the middle of Thursday) and I'm hoping there might be a Friday (or Saturday?) session. I probably ask this every year, but I'm old, ok - and I've only made it down for one QB game which was a few years ago.

fmd ...Keystone Cops time "It is understood the delay was partly caused by the failure of an on-call officer to respond to an emergency message. Officers responding to the crisis were further held up, after being unable to locate firearms and body armour, the source said." (courtesy of The Aged ) Makes you feel all warm and fuzzy...and so safe

There's more than an insinuation from you and other posters that Jack Watts somehow lacks the mental toughness that other players have - but I dispute this. Players regularly miss set shots from positions that I could easily kick goals from. It's not because of a lack of skills, it's because of lack of mental application in the face of great pressure. Jack Watts kicks the goal that Isaac Smith missed in the Qualifying final after the siren with 90,000 baying fans. It's because he is able to calm his mind and execute his skills under maximum pressure. Even when he's kicking from 15 out directly in front he goes through his mental process and he never misses. He's the one guy in the whole AFL that you want kicking for the flag. In field play he consistently finds time and hits targets. It's primarily about his mental toughness and secondarily about his skills. Mentally weak players do not fly courageously at the centre bounce against Aaron Sandilands.

It is a really sad thing to see, I feel for Faz. Outwardly he comes across as a confident young fella, but it would seem inwardly he is struggling and a lot of it has to do with the scrutiny we place on our players in this digital world. It`s a timely reminder to all the keyboard warriors out there. Jordan Lewis said that all the young players read all the forums and various social media platforms. “That has no doubt had an effect on players and their mental health.” We all get upset when we lose a match or see a player stuff up, but some of the insults thrown around are downright disgraceful. They are human beings and many of them barely adults. Please give this some thought before you post nasty, unnecessary, negative comments towards the players. It just might be your comment that sends them into darkness.

Next you will suggesting supporters also have flaws.

Nice Little vid on The Wiz. http://www.afl.com.au/video/2017-05-31/fantastic-five-jeff-farmers-best-moments