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Have no records of what players were injected with 100s of times Have a recording of a meetinf 4 years ago Righto

An understandable impression. I actually really really want Watts to succeed, but it's fair to say he's frustrated me his whole career. I knew he could play far better than what he dished out in his first 7 years and could never understand why so many supporters set the bar so low for him. This site is riddled with Watts apologists. As improved as it was, 2016 was a minimum requirement from my perspective, as he can still be so much better. I have zero respect for Watts' talent. He did nothing to earn it. He was lucky enough to be born with it. It's what you do with your talent that's important. Nick Riewoldt was born with talent too, but he's made the most of it with an incredible work ethic. Some get it though. Binman gets it. He and I have differed for years on Watts, but he acknowledges that the story is Watts, it's not Goodwin, or what the club is divulging or not divulging. The story is a player entering his 9th year who seemingly is too satisfied on the back of one good year. But we have supporters here potting Goodwin and the club, instead of the player who's letting himself, his teammates and coaches down.

Funny story - The Sydney Swans have been fined $20,000 for failing to properly update the central database of what injections and treatments two players received, ...on one occasion, ...although they did have detailed internal records which were readily available for cross-checking. So, let's see... Essendon... some 40 players, about twice a week, for at least 6 months, with no internal or central records kept. 2080 incidents x $10,000 an incident = $20.8m fines, minimum, if my quick maths is right. And that's just the central record-keeping side, not the failure to keep internal records at all. And of course, the record-keeping problem at Sydney was entirely involving common and explicitly WADA-approved injections. Y'know what, I really hate the Essendon Football Club. For everything they stand for, but most of all the 'we're so hard-done-by' whinging and the strutting around like they've successfully come through a period of being victimised.

All this because he didn't reach a KPI.. Goodwin has him locked up, poking him with chicken bones to make him angry before he unleashes him for the all important Battle Royale (aka practice match number 3).

I heard Jack Watts tripped him up.

I just don't get it. How do some people not see that: a) Dank is a nutcase and was given too much freedom without sufficient checks. This is an acknowledged fact by all sides but seems to get lost when some are looking to point fingers of blame. b) He gave the players banned substances. You can argue all you want about what the players knew, but Dank sourced it, purchased it, imported it- with the intention of using it. c) The AFL had no motivation to see Essendon found guilty. d) The AFL had no motivation for the ordeal to drag on for years. e) The 'saga' spread over 2 governments and 4 prime ministers- it was apolitical. f) The only body to clear the players was the AFL tribunal. Every other legal and sporting/anti-doping body found they had done wrong. Most Essendon people don't want this dragged up again- the people who do refuse to acknowledge any wrongdoing by the club at all- even having Dank running amok. We can laugh at them from afar but I don't want Melksham and Hibberd focusing on anything other than football for the Dees.

Pro is just one poster. He has an opinion as everyone else does. It is not better or worse. Some posters think their opinion is better, more informed or simply superior to others. Fortunately, many just like to share their opinion with other posters or enjoy reading the opinion of others. Some earn respect from others through their informed views or the manner in which they communicate.. Those that don't earn respect are those that allow ego or a sense of superiority influence their posts. The Watts saga is a good example where opinions rule due to different perceptions, different information sources and different interpretations. In the end, I enjoy this sight because I love this club and I find this site more informative and interesting that any "official sites" including the marketing spiel that comes from the MFC site. Let diversity of opinions rule but without ego or personal denigration of other's views or opinions.

Who found the 34 players guilty of drug cheating? Was it the AFL? Could the AFL CEO guarantee no penalties? Could the AFL overrule any penalty applied by CAS? This shows how ill informed the EFC were about ASADA and anti doping rules. They should have known that AFL football was in the bailiwick of ASADA and that ASADA could act independently of the AFL and that the AFL held no sway over ASADA -WADA. They should have known that the world governing anti doping body had the power to get them if they breached the rules. To complain about the AFL breaking their word is more obfuscation from the EFC. The AFL's word is irrelevant as they did not find EFC guilty of drug cheating. No claim is made that they did not cheat. No claim is made that they were innocent. The only conclusion I draw from this is they knew they were guilty but thought the AFL would not ban their players. That is what happened. How with any integrity can they complain about the AFL when the AFL had no say in the outcome? How is it that all records are lost except a recording of a conversation about another conversation, at best hearsay, Little may have been lying to bolster the troops. More smoke from the EFC and its sycophants.

Bomber Thompson: "We need to find out what actually happened not just believe whats in the report" Paul Little: "Theres no time for that" [censored] with a chairman with an attitude like that i have no idea why they had any issues.

I don't really understand why people are attacking ProDee for this, he had the exact same thoughts as a lot of people I'm sure. As they say where there is smoke there is fire. As a big defender of Jack it is pretty disappointing to hear that he hasn't reached the goals set in the preseason and that is unacceptable for this stage in his career. Jack has an extreme amount of talent and I hope he reaches the heights that I think he is capable of. People asking for the club to release which goals he didn't set are insane, what would they gain by doing that? By releasing that it would put even more unfair pressure on Jack. I hope he is in the team by round 1 but if he isn't picked you have to just trust the new coach.

Out of boredom, I just searched 'Jack Watts' on this forum and got 9329 results.

It's a bloody big Tea Cup me thinks

Thanks SWYL...this was soooo much better than the original commentary, and it made viewing this for the ( insert number here)th time just so much more enjoyable! What I particularly liked about this sequence of play was the outstanding contributions through a wide range of individuals, who when called upon, actually delivered. Watts with his passing and critical intercepts when Hawthorn were attacking. Hunt running down Smith to stop a near certain goal. Brayshaws mark on the wing in a tough one-on-one, that kept the ball moving forward. Stretch's swift hands in tight situations, not to mention his running when others would have stopped Pedersons ability to hit packs and provide a target when there were no others Vince's calmness when all around was a storm. Petracca and Vandenberg just bullocking the ball forward when the contest was critical Omac who while not finishing his effort all that well, had run the length of the ground to provide an option for others. Bugg popping up all around the contests and finding space when there was none. I could go on, with Oliver, Tyson, Viney and Gawn all making major contributions when needed, but I cannot remember a game in recent memory where we had so many contributors in what was a truly tight and epic clash.

Let's nip this in the bud right now. Whenever a player is sidelined or injured mysteriously, there is always speculation about "off-field issues". It's an easy rumour to peddle with no proof whatsoever. This kind of rumour, speculation and innuendo is not welcome on Demonland, which doesn't deal in fake news. Any posts that hint at these sorts of allegations will be removed.

This transcends political leanings... it's just [censored] funny, plain and simple. The accompanying blurb by the creator: "Trump's press conference is easier to take if you slow it down a bit. Then it's like watching an old drunk ranting at you in a bar at 3:00am—the only circumstance where any of this would seem normal. You're welcome."

what new info i learned from audio tape ZILCH ZERO NIL

Mystery solved. Watts won't get a game until he stops relying on this bloke to help him jump.

I have no problem with how this has been handled. The underlying issue is that if Jack Watts farts it makes the back page of the paper. So do you treat him differently out of fear of it becoming a headline ? Do you set different rules for him ? What message does it send to the rest of the group if you pick a player that apparently hasn't met his KPI's because you don't want it to become a story ? Where is the outrage over Jack Trengove not getting a practice game ? He has worked his butt off and not put a foot wrong. Bottom line for JT is there are others ahead of him on the list and he may have to prove himself at Casey to get a game. But there is no 450 post thread because there is no media obsession with Trengove. So if the football dep't have deemed Watts has not been working hard enough or whatever it is that sees him not picked then the footy department should take whatever action it deems necessary without fearing that it is going to make news.

Like clockwork.

I bumped into Jack this morning at the agora and asked him about the meaning of life and his reply was “When my time on earth is gone, and my activities here are passed, I want they bury me upside down, and my critics can kiss my ass”

I hope this hits 500 posts...this thread deserves it...

Hilarious

Magner cops a bad wrap I feel, he played some decent games for us but at the end of the day just wasn't up to it. Gave it a fair crack every time he was out there, which was more than some at that time.

Hate the EFC with a passion. They got what they deserved. But the head honchos at AFL headquarters are as corrupt as FIFA under Blatter. Would not trust Gil for a second. I would love to see that he gets what's coming to him too. What's worse, is that the fat one has been able to wipe his hands and break away from all this cleanly. Him and Gil can be cell buddies for corruption and perverting the course of justice.

Thanks for sharing these two games guys. Fantastic to watch and not that different in many ways. Features of both games 29 years apart: Attack on the ball, inside and outside. Attack on their opponents. Pressure, pressure, pressure. Running in numbers and into space. Sensible and effective use of handball and short kicking. Other features of the North match: Great umpiring. Seeing Demetriou, Clarkson and Shaun Smith playing for North. Seeing the late Robbie, Jimmy and Sean playing that day. What great players and men! Seeing the dads of our current players, Todd, Steven Stretch, Shaun Smith-how time flies. Seeing some of the Demon names that I had forgotten playing in that match. How did Northey get such incredible value out of these good ordinary players? The game against North was still the most dominant 4 quarter performance that I have ever seen from Melbourne. A day to treasure and remember. I will always remember after returning from the game and seeing the jubilant look on my father's face when I walked into his hospital room in his final days, and sharing the highlights of the day. He had taken me to the footy every week from the age of 4 and they were the best days ever.

Just listened to the tape and don't understand the drama. Nothing new and it seems to me that it demonstrates that the AFL and the EFC were doing their level best to make a deal that would have circumvented the anti doping rules.

At training, there are 2 fixed cameras, two roving cameras, the players wear GPS, there are approximately 8 coaches at any one time, who are all linked by mobile radio, there is nowhere to hide at training

Caroline has her say: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/afl-20170224-gukxno.html These two paragraphs sum it up rather nicely: "The varying degrees of delusion in that bunker occupied by Paul Little, James Hird, Mark Thompson and Danny Corcoran can be summed up by concluding that all were in desperate positions but none – at least in the recording – showed contrition for the damage they had caused and were continuing to create". "Those who allowed this to happen should be so ashamed of themselves that any personal grievances remain red herrings to what they put their players through. And the side issue in the form of a push for a parliamentary inquiry smacks of an attempt to rewrite the key facts of the club's dreadful recent history." She makes very strong links of Bomber to the recording.

My circle of mates use a term of 'Block-heads' when it comes to footy players. The term is self explanatory but players like Libba, Tony Shaw, Joel Selwood and the like fit the bill. Jack Viney is another. Even Nick Rewoldt is. And there are a stack of players who aren't block heads but are still AFL level players to varying degrees. Watts is not a block-head ... if he was, he'd be a better player.

And also got played out of position in the last part of his brief career. How a coach could think they'd turn him in to a half forward flank has me stuffed.

That last quarter is the reason J Lewis contacted the club during trade week.

I blame Demonland for putting him on the banner. Clearly he wasn't ready and the mods have put too much pressure on him. Maybe Jack cracked it because they are taking the ruck duties off him and he had a few choice words about it to Goody? Maybe Jack was told to shave his sideburns and he didn't do it. Goody could be jealous of Jack's strikingly good looks and wants to show him that looks aren't everything if you have the power. All heresay and speculation, how there can be 18 pages on this crap really shows that preseason goes for way too long. I will start to worry when the season proper starts and Jack isn't out there, until then, enjoy your fantasy land

Its frikn unbelievable this resurfaces it really is. These c#ckheads at the Sun and at EFC ( is there a difference?) dont know when to take a break. It 100% exposes that a Gil spoke of a deal with the bombers that he had to change. Thats IT. Is it a scandal that the head of the AFL would try to do a deal to get a club off after it had monstrously flouted the most important rules in the game? . Yes. But we all already knew that and that this thing stunk. Does it in any way show that the EFC didnt drug their players ...no. Does it any way clear any of them ...no. All It shows their utter arrogance and outrage at being confronted by their own cheating. And how they are determined to get back at Gil for having the temerity to try and save them somehow. Somehow the story their spinning is how Gil backed down from his "deal" not that the bombers were drugging their players???? In some ways I think the dees had a small part in this. We lay down so easily over the tanking "scandal" that Gil thought he knew how to handle things. He accepted a "not guilty" from us but let the papers shame us unmercifully before and since. With the bombers the deal was the opposite. You accept guilty ( because we cant possibly rescue you from this) and we'll make sure the penalty is as small as possible and that the press support you. ie we'll try to make it go away. He forgot that the bombers had way more money than we did and were prepared to sacrifice several million to save face. But in the end...the players were still doped, Drugs were still in the club and being injected into the players. Forget the word "supplliments". I wish ASADA had banned the team for a year ....and I wish Gil wasnt such a [censored] and saw past his own need to have a " no mess" situation and get how SERIOUS performance enhancing drugs in football really is. Can we ban the sun for a year too? sheesh....this stroy made me angry

I'll never forget those 2 Tyson goals in the last qtr. He reeks of last qtr heroics and will be an absolutely brilliant player for us over the next 8 or so years. He also kicked a ripping goal in the first Hawks game that gave us momentum into half time. We're very lucky to have a very talented pick number 2 on our hands.

Goody wanted some board shorts at a discount and Watts said you have to pay full retail like everyone else. Join the dots.

MFC lacking a back-of-jumper sponsor. The sudden scrapping of our clash strip. The club's vagueness re. Watts heightening the attention on Jack and the MFC. Join the dots. 'Thank you everyone for attending this press conference. We have some very exciting news, but first of all, we'd like to Skwosh the rumours once and for all . . .'

Oh..My..God..

Watts (disciplined), Pedo, Kent and Jetta (all coming off injuries), Trennners (probably play this week), Garland (pretty much expected to be depth only with the current backline). I'd say that the psychological scarring excuse is well past its use by date.

I appreciate the sentiments, however, it's not lost on me that if you conduct yourself like I historically have then you open yourself up to scrutiny and in part bring it upon yourself.

Ahhh ...the old " I have paid taxes all my life " argument. Having reached 58 I get that a lot in my circles and have to remind that taxation is a "public good" mechanism ** Taxation should be used to help those who need help not those who feel entitled to get something in return for having paid taxes in the first place. I would like a tax funded certificate that says "you've done pretty well nutbean, count your blessings that you don't have to rely on anyone else for your wellbeing". **I do acknowledge there is some disconnect between the theory behind how tax dollars should be used and the reality

or #bs

The word is Jack Watts has been disciplined for talking with spectators over the fence during work hours, instead of focussing on football. It's all Saty's fault.

Trengove should be given a game ahead of Harmes or ANB based on last weeks performance.

Wishing a star player to fail and gloating over a preseason storm in a teacup are uniquely Demonland experiences Wise. Traits of MFCSS.

+100

Clearly this Nick Bowen doesn't have too much of an idea when it comes to the MFC. "Weideman, Melbourne's first selection in the 2015 NAB AFL Draft at pick No.9 overall, was due to come out of contract at the end of this season but the Demons and the 19-year-old's manager, Ben Williams of Players Ink, agreed to a new two-year deal this week." I could be wrong, but the last time i checked, Pick #4 (Oliver) comes before #9.

Loving the standards Goodwin is setting. He's developing a hard-nosed premiership quality list where everyone knows what's required to play footy under him. The fact that I don't know the exact parameters Watts isn't meeting is irrelevant. I don't need to know.

He has been training like a bloke that thinks he is a walk up start. Lazy attitude . Ffs I explained this all days ago on the post match thread, was shot down, and here we are with clear proof of what I told you. He isn't working hard enough. If you went to the intra club match you would know the exact kpi's Mahoney is referring to. He was smashed in the one on one drills. He dropped basic marks when under no pressure. Jack thinks he has made it on the back of one decent season. He isn't even close and the FD are providing the reality check