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I am bewildered by posters that say Pedo is not a part of the future. He has played well in every winning game we have played with him in the side. He takes strong contested marks and is a more reliable shot at goal than most of the forwards in our side. It actually annoys me that we just write him off. Weed wont be a game breaker from Rd 1 next year. We need some back ups ...Cut the bloke some slack.

Supporters ride too high after a great win and too low after a poor loss. Their season sways too much over isolated games. It was a poor loss by a very young team that is still learning the caper. I'm annoyed, the players would be annoyed and so too would the coaches, but they also understand where we presently fit in the world of AFL. The result was borne out of the fact that the team has been the youngest and least experienced more often than any other club this year. We fielded the youngest team we have since 2011 on the weekend. 18 of our 22 had not played 100 games. Carlton had 9 that had played 100+. In this context 2016 has been phenomenal. 2013 - 2 wins and 54%, 2014 - 4 wins, 2015 - 7 wins, 2016 - 10 wins and 103% with the youngest and least experienced team in the competition. The Melbourne Football Club is perfectly placed to have a crack at a flag over the next 3-5 years and the weekend's results don't change that one iota.

This game still means something. Nothing would give me more pleasure than beating the AFL charity case that is Geelong in the final round on their home turf and kicking them out of the top 4, or at worst killing their hopes of a top 2 spot and making them travel to Sydney or Adelaide in week 1 of the finals. And for good measure I hope Viney injures both Selwood and Dangerfield and they miss the finals series. To finish the season 11-11 with a % over 100 would be a great segue to the Goodwin era.

I'm not going to criticise Paul Roos because overall he has been wonderful for the Club but the match day coaching yesterday was terrible & arguably cost us any chance of a win. Selections were poor. With Garlett out the obvious move was to bring in Kennedy Harris or Ben Kennedy for their crumbing ability & I thought Salem was the obvious replacement for Harmes. Also why on earth drop Pedersen who has been handy & is a strong body in wet conditions. To the game - Carlton have 3 dangerous players Cripps & Gibbs on the ball & Simpson in defence who sets them up. None of these 3 had a hard tag. Vince who was scratchy in defence should have gone on to Cripps. As is was we were beaten in the clearances & centre bounces. The team failed to adapt to wet weather & continued to overuse handball usually until they turned over the ball. Melbourne allowed Carlton to have a spare defender most of the day which resulted in them taking lots of uncontested marks. Dumb, dumb, dumb match day coaching. And seriously in this day & age why do our players have the wrong boots on & keep falling over.

How many other coaches could have taken us from atrocious to 10 wins in a season (and rising) in 3 years?

Just quietly i have heard rumors Paul Roos will be moved on at seasons end. Read on to it what you will

You can relax. The word around the traps is that the deal has been agreed by both clubs, at our 2nd round pick. That is why Hibberd and Essendon are being so nice to each other and the CEO said they would help Hibberd get to his new club. There is love everywhere. All over. I think we will be looking at possible trades to get back into the 2nd round.

rjay I haven't read all of this but I read your first post and then this one and some of the replies so apologies in advance if I'm missing something. Some good number of years ago I was chatting with Craig Cameron about evaluating players. He related a story about Simon Black from way back in 1997. Simon as many will know went on to win a Brownlow and play in the 3 flags for the Lions. He was a magic player. Craig said that at the beginning of 1997 he loved Simon and thought he would be a champion. But as the year went on and he spoke to other people instead of looking at what he could do they started to talk of his shortcomings. He was slow, not a particularly good kick and so on it went. They picked him apart. In the end with all the negative talk Craig went off him and instead drafted Travis Johnstone (1) and Troy Longmuir (22) ahead of Black (31). Simon clearly wasn't a star at U18 level so was never in the hunt for our first pick and at 31 every other club saw his faults but he was right in the mix at pick 22. Craig reckoned it was one of the best lessons he learned. Never forget what players could do, be balanced when evaluating and recognise your gut instinct. Every player has weaknesses. IMO your opening post has reflected the CAC experience and you've focused too much on a players weaknesses rather than what they can do. Frost is a perfect example. He is fast, agile, has good hands, great closing speed, big and brave. That's not a bad skill set. He makes mistakes but they are not deal breakers. Frawley makes mistakes but won the Hawks the GF last year with his shut down job on Kennedy. Our advantage IMO is that we have so many young players playing and learning together. Much of our team will be the same in 6 to 8 years time as it is today. McDonald x 2, Hogan, Salem, Watts, Petracca, Viney, Brayshaw, Gawn, Tyson, Oliver, Stretch, Kent, Frost, Weideman and Hunt - that's 16 players - have a very realistic chance to be there over the journey. That's huge. In 3 or 4 years time they will be right in the window. All have their weaknesses but what you ignore, or perhaps haven't said, is the benefit of being together over the journey will be a massive advantage over other clubs with perhaps only GWS better positioned. There's not one dot of pessimism here. We are beautifully placed for the future, better than we could have hoped. And with Jason Taylor's track record on recruiting, McCartney on development and fast becoming a destination club what is there not to like? Remember the final product is much greater than the sum of the parts. People should realize this is a journey and although we didn't like yesterdays stopover this trips itinerary is pretty bloody good.

What I find ridiculous is that the media portray Howe as being a revelation at half back playing for the pies when he played that position with the Demons as well.

Of course they don't need to be even, but don't try telling everyone that we only deserved around 5 free kicks for an entire game. Didn't cost us the game, but was out of whack nonetheless.

Not fussed about the season. If you offered me 10 wins and talking finals in round 22 in Feb I'd have taken it in a heartbeat. We call them awesome when they beat Hawthorn, and dispicable when they lose to Carlton... the truth is in the middle. Young team coming off a decade of being the easybeats. We need to relax a little and see what 2017 brings.

I don't expect them to be even but a 400% difference is staggering. It wasn't even the ones they paid the Blues, there were some shockers but there always are, it was the ones we didn't get like Hogan being pushed from a marking contest by a player facing him not even looking near the ball while his team mate marked in our goal square, or Max being pushed out of the ruck and shepherded from competing again and again and again, only to have a free paid against his for doing the same. 1 free for a whole half of a game is unheard of and really can't happen. It doesn't matter how dominant the opposition there will be more than 1 mistake made by a team to give away a free in a half of footy.

I got fired up after reading this post! Well said!

I'm excited and happy with our progress in 2016, not that flat about finals because simply we don't deserve to be in the 8. Our club now has talent and some talent from unexpected areas. Jayden Hunt to me is the surprise of the year, he can be anything this kid. We have Oliver, Petracca, Weideman, Brayshaw, and another surprise in OMac. another 18 months into these guys along with our other best listed players, the club must be expecting to go deep into finals by 2018. we do have the talent...we don't have maturity in the cranium department. My biggest disappointment is falling to teams such as Essendon, Carlton and St Kilda. We win 3 out if those 4 games we play finals. Our biggest archilles is getting the head right for games against teams we are expected to beat. This is the challenge for 2017, this club is expected to play finals next year and they must get their heads in the right place to take the next step. The talent is there, maturity must be developed ASAP. Finally, Proud of the club this year, but the bar is set, and next year It's on. Finals appearance expected or it's a fail next season.

The umpiring was pretty good yesterday. We lost the free count because we were second to the ball.

They have been. The AFL recruited our CEO, determined who could and couldn't be on our Board and provided significant amounts of money when we were at our lowest ebb at the time of appointing Roos. One can be fully cognisant of history while supporting a team. Only a nong would think it's mutually exclusive.

I think the onus was upon the players collectively to make that decision and move, and they failed to make it... On reflection, they will be aware of the error of their ways and will likely make the correct decision next time. How else will they learn to make the moves themselves, if not by being empowered to do so? It's how the Hawthorns and Geelongs have maintained their longterm dominance. They don't wait for the coach to make the move - Burgoyne goes into the centre square, or Bartel moves to play loose in the backline when they sense it is needed.

just reverse the changes from last week

That's a far more plausible number than the other rumour in this thread. I'm not sure why supporters get so hung up over how much players are paid anyway. So long as players on our list aren't leaving for money, who cares how much we play the players we recruit?

If Poorish is in there surely Oliver should've been.

In: Spencer, Dawes, Terlich, Max King, Joel Smith Out: Gawn, Hogan, Viney, Tyson, T. McDonald

My daughter and I were sitting in almost the same seats as the Essendon game in the Ponsford Stand, you could tell in the first five minutes that the Blue baggers were playing us in the same manner as the Bombers and Saints, hard at us in the middle, nullifying Gawn and putting our mid's on the back foot. They were clean with their hands and kicked to moving targets. They scored easier goals and showed up our inexperience around the ground, they received the free kicks that they should have received and we did not. later in the game we had the opportunities to peg them back but continued to hit up their back men (standing by themselves in our forward line??) or kicked point after point after point. It was difficult to watch after coming off our best month of Footy in almost ten years. It was an insipid display for A TEAM THAT HAD A "SNIFF". I Love the Dee's but found this Defeat very difficult to accept. Go Dee's!!!!

I find this stuff quite amusing in that most of the posts about this topic sound like they know more about the game/tactics then guys who have between them played hundreds of AFL games. They remind me of the Hansonite Clown who appeared on Q & A last week who knew all there is to know about climate change.

The media have always had an over inflated opinion of Howe because of this highlights reel of marks. He is playing better than he did with us, but we are better off without him, he was lazy and unaccountable, some of the decisions he made were incredibley stupid.

I'm told Roos plans to coach the last game from a banana lounge in a Hawaiian Shirt with a Pina Colada . Apparently he will be writing the messages down on little surfboards and pushing them across a blow up pool to Goody who will have to translate them from Hawaiian back into English. All the runners have been instructed to wear Grass skirts in keeping with the theme and the physios will be using coconut oil instead of Goanna oil. The club insists that Roos is still 100% committed to seeing out the season but I don't buy it.

Had to laugh when heard on radio, Selwood complained bc Brisbane kid, Matheson, ducked his head and got a free

To not get 1 free in a quarter and a half.... i don't know how the boys playing think, but if a couple went our way, well, might've given a bit of confidence. Meanwhile, blues knew they could do no wrong....played with a lot of confidence. Must've been laughing on the inside. A lot of Carlton supporters certainly were in the crowd. If we were first at the ball, holding the ball. If second, holding the man or too high, on a head ducker...

why would connors care about whether essendon gets overs. there is no money in that for him? his prime concern would be getting the highest contract for hibberd

One reason why North, WCE and Hawks do well as they have so many 'duckers' who know how to milk the frees.

So when we had 206 kicks to 225 handballs against hawthorn - I wonder if it that was a dumb game plan ? Handballing is not a bad game plan but bad handballing that either miss the target or are to a stationary player who doesn't have a moving teammate to move it to is a bad game plan.

Having the youngest side for at least 15 rounds of the season certainly makes ten wins seem more impressive. Agree with the above though. It still hurts.

Can't agree. Jetta was BOG by a mile for us.

Do not make excuses Today was a disgrace. A real chance & they were not switched on How many times does Jones fail dismally in crucial games?

Frost is still very young in "games played" terns and has some incredible attributes. I think he can improve his decision making. Next year is "make or break" for Salem ? Way too early to say that. I've seen enough to be very confident he'll be a long term important player. Stretch is also very young. He's either still a teenager or just turned 20. I'd reserve judgment for at least another year. We have deficiencies to address, but it is a young and very exciting list.

Just for interest sake i thought i would have a look at this. I just did all the teams above us on the ladder. total kicks total handballs kicks more than handballs. syd 4412 3888 564 adel 4656 3651 1005 geel 4445 3619 826 haw 4449 3334 1115 gws 4657 3572 1085 wc 4203 3158 1045 wb 4482 4194 288 nmfc 4260 3355 905 st kilda 4242 3668 574 MFC 4228 4064 164 Make of it what you will.

yesterday wasnt about personnel or tactics for me. it was attitude. Somehow, in typical Melbourne fashion we went in without being 100% switched on. I could tell within 3-4 minutes we would lose - just like it was clear within 3-4 minutes against the Hawks that we were up for it and would push them. they literally walked the ball forward for the first goal in 30 seconds. we werent even trying. the culture/attitude issues have improved but are still there and this should be the main focus as we will never win anything if we are soft mentally - expect the LG next year to reflect some change in this area. Goody will pick players who front up and have self belief im not even that annoyed as it didnt surprise me. in some ways id prefer it happened now so we can work on it rather than getting 12 wins and thinking we dont need to change anything for next year wouldnt surpirse me if we beat the cats next week!

OUT: Weideman, Kent, Stretch, Neal-Bullen. IN: Pedersen, Kennedy, Salem, Trengove.

While also being a great front man and media personality who could cop with the heat and pressure of big losses and disappointing results? Imagine if any other coach came in post Roos and had a 4 win season... Everyone would want him sacked. Roos steadied the ship on and off the field and built a culture and a list capable of going somewhere other than wooden spoon land. He isn't the best match day coach but he is the man we had to have!

Watched the game from level 4 as I wanted to see how our Fwds worked up and down the ground. The amount of times Hoges is burnt on a lead was noticeable. We had enough of the ball and enough fwd entries we just didn't lower our eyes or didn't move it quick enough to get out the back when we he options.

AN END TO THE DREAMING by George on the Outer Carlton put paid to the Demons' chances of playing in the 2016 finals series, or more correctly Melbourne threw away its chances of being there in September. From the first bounce it was obvious that the “bad” Melbourne had turned up to play a game that was reminiscent of that against Essendon earlier in the year. Before the supporters could build their hopes, the game was over as Carlton put on four goals in the opening quarter from nine shots, while the Demons could only manage four shots on goal with only two majors resulting. This was a Carlton side that had lost its previous nine encounters, while the Demons were coming off a three game winning streak, its longest for nearly ten years. The mids were comprehensively beaten to everything that Max Gawn sent their way, and when they weren’t first to the ball, the effectiveness of their disposal was appalling. Dom Tyson despite 30 touches needs to be sat down and told to kick the ball instead of trying to handball first, when it is raining. The same happened against Hawthorn first up, then Sydney and again today. Handballing in close is a dry weather option, and it was evidenced that he only managed two clearances for the whole day! Jack Viney battled all day, and produced eight clearances from fewer possession. The difference between statistics and effectiveness. The backs were simply magnificent and without the efforts of the MacDonald brothers and Neville Jetta combined with the sorry skills of most Carlton players, the result would have been much worse. Tom did a particularly damaging job on Levi Casboult who only had 9 touches for the whole game, while Neville just kept intercepting and spoiling the Carlton forward thrusts. The 1%ers statistic had Tom with 14, Oscar with 8 and Neville with 5 with no other players on the field doing better. Bernie on the other hand was simply atrocious and is not a backman. He was moved up the ground after the first quarter, but he continues to do silly things and provide turnovers to the opposition advantage. At least after ¼ time the damage was further up the field. Jayden Hunt provided that thrill and enthusiasm that was so much needed in this game, but without any assistance his was a lone hand. Up forward the selection committee again erred as it brought in an undeveloped Weidemann in favour of Pedersen. Today Hogan needed a big body to provide a second option, and it simply wasn’t there. While the further development of Weidemann is appreciated, one has to wonder whether winning the match was a priority. Hogan led the Demons with his 14 marks including 5 contested, but his kicking for goal remains a real point of concern. He wasn’t alone as not even Jack Watts was able to nail a set shot from 30m which normally would be written down before it left his boot. And the final quarter of 1 goal 6 behinds, most of which were from set shots or easy open shots was the difference between a win, keeping the hope alive, or being beaten by a side which had lost 9 straight! Again the commitment to winning wasn’t evident as the coaches continued to play an extra man in defence, even in the last quarter, when the game had to be won. We had to score, not defend as we were already 4 goals behind. Carlton appreciated the lack of pressure in our forward line, as that spare man was able to mop up successfully time and time again. And with Hogan always double teamed, he had little chance. Small wonder the kid gets frustrated. Viv Michie has almost certainly determined his future despite 20 touches. His lack of vigour is a hallmark, especially when his direct opponent in Dylan Buckley managed 3 goals. Likewise ANB was underwhelming with a mere eight touches and only one to half time. Once again the selection committee has to be questioned about the suitability of these players in a match that HAD to be won. At Melbourne we had a dream. It might have been only a slim hope, but it caused more Demons supporters to turn up to watch on a wet wintery day than had been seen in Round 21 for many a year. So for all those dreaming supporters, the words of Fantinefrom the musical Le Miserables seem so poignant: I had a dream my life would be So different from this hell I'm living So different now, from what it seemed Now life has killed the dream I dreamed Melbourne 2.2.14 4.8.32 6.10.46 7.16.58 Carlton 4.5.29 7.8.50 10.10.70 11.12.78 Goals Carlton Buckley 3 Graham 2 Cripps Everitt Jones Phillips Sumner Wright Melbourne Bugg Gawn Hogan Hunt Neal-Bullen Oliver vandenBerg Best Melbourne Viney Hunt N Jones T McDonald O McDonald Jetta Carlton Cripps Gibbs Buckley Docherty Simpson Changes Carlton Silvagni (soreness) replaced in the selected side by Graham. Kerridge (illness) replaced in the selected side by Everitt Melbourne Nil Injuries Melbourne Watts (right eye), Kent (right leg) Carlton Buckley (head), Curnow (left knee) Reports Melbourne Nil Carlton Nil Umpires Donlon, Rosebury, Mitchell Official crowd 40,693 at MCG

An astute summary which should be read by the Football Department as well as all Demonlanders.

It's terrible. It's a dumb game plan that costs us time and time again. They handball in the dumbest situations, Vince was a prime example yesterday when he took a mark, handled to Jones who was two meters away with his back to our goals who then handballed back to Vince who then took his kick under pressure. We are so dumb with the amount of 2 merger handballs. We all stood within a meter of the contest, Carlton stood around us an extra meter away, tackled us and waited jntil we turned it overt then spread from the contest under no pressure.

I am just sick of the waiting...... I mean, i know i have no choice, and we have a team of children who might actually become quite good, and we are better than last year, and we show potential, and, .... and..... I dont wanna wait any more. Im old and broken already and i cant afford the alcohol that i need to keep tuning in every week. This team makes me grumpy. And sometimes happy But mostly grumpy.

Still very young

Don't think hunt has had a bad game.

Love him to bits. Still can't believe how much footy he's been able to play this year. What's even more impressive is that unlike most of his younger teammates, he seems to be improving as the season has progressed as opposed to tiring. I reckon he'll finish top ten in the B&F this season. Certainly one of only 4-5 players who can hold their head high after today's effort as well.

OP makes some valid points, but I disagree that it was a loss we had to have. I don't think it will help the team, only set them back further, knowing that with finals on the line they managed to not fight out a result against a bottom 4 side. Mind boggling really and will surely sap the confidence of the playing group. I thought this kind of crap was behind us, how wrong I was. A few comments about players: 1) Bernie - Holy Cow he's really dropped away hasn't he? If he continues on this trajectory, I predict he'll be wearing a Casey jumper with Colin and Dunny most of next season. 2) Pedo - should have been out there today. The Hogan and Weed show was a complete and utter fizzer. 3) Frost - I reckon he'll be okay, the flaws in his game can be fixed. One of the biggest of which is keeping his feet in a contest. Goes to ground willingly far too often and its just plain stupid, but surely that can be coached out of him. 4) Kent - I agree on this about it being make or break next year. He'll need to lift if he's going to keep the likes of Harmes (lets face it he's a forward not a back) and Ben Ken out of the side. 5) Hogan - I'm so underwhelmed by what I see from Hogan each week (I know he takes marks on the wing but so what, every time he marks the ball he takes his full 10 seconds to get it moving, slows us down incredibly, also has what can only be described as the ultra-yips with his set goal kicking). It really is infuriating watching him play. I know I'll cop flak for this, but I'd be entertaining trade offers.

Life will do that to him. He dragged me to that stupid UFC [censored] today when I didn't want to go, and then he had the audacity to rip into me when Carlton got up. That's all it took really. Should have seen the look on his stupid face. Priceless

This round: Average games played - 61 Average age - 23yo Again, youngest most inexperienced side of the round. Even GC went out with a more mature side. Any suprise that our season is such a rollercoaster? We have fielded the youngest most inexperienced side for 15 rounds this year

The loss we had to have.....................you're kidding me right? With potential finals on the line, and with all the talk coming out of the club (mostly the playing group) about not looking to next week and just focusing on Carlton, i'd have thought that it was the win we needed to have.