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The forecast said isolated drizzle, so took the morning off, it rained/drizzled/[censored] down non stop It was a hard session. compared to others I have watched, considering it is only 4 weeks from our season end Roos actually raised his voice a couple of times, I could actually hear what he was saying/shouting........there was one instance where it was and end to end drill and surprisingly we went across field and then down the line to a 1 against 3.....Roos immediately stopped it and to paraphrase "what was the point of that, that is not what we want"......another time he pulled the midfield together and 'demanded' they work together Anyway Pedersen will not play this weekend, was not at training and confirmed by Misso had a op on his schnozzle and will be missing Tapscott is probably an out as well, left training early and was limping on his right leg Other interesting bits, when the squad was split in half to do the end to end, Blease and McKenzie joined the 'Casey side', and Gawn, Michie and Barry played with the AFL side, along with Matt Jones who split his time and Cross (who confirmed afterwards he was in, Michie was hopeful).....Watts played in the back 6 and Gawn as a stay at home forward near the goal square Jesse Hogan did the full session and looks ready to go, asked him this week or next, said "we'll see", asked Misson, he said next week, it is Hogan's decision as to whether he plays or not, I think the way he attacked training it will be yes Spoke to Chip Frawley, if he has made his mind up, he is a bloody good liar, or I have lost the ability to pick it, we'll see I can never remember everything, so any questions feel free, just one more, there were about 5 separate kicking drills today

Unbelievable that Pedersen has to miss a few weeks and have Surgery but Merrett gets off free! Disgusting MRP!!

He did everything, if that is what you mean, the whole session, so kicking, tackling, ground ball, end to end, he was moving really well, even had Salem firing kicks at head height from about 5 metres away at one point to get his reflexes up, ended up the session by competing with TomMcDonald on catching ridiculous bombs put as high as possible but only standing about 10 metres apart, Tommy Mc misjudged one in the rain, hence the decapitation mentioned above. Roos watched this 'training' and was very amused, probably more by Hogan looking ready to go

Never thought Id say this.... No Pedersen....Bugger !!! cheers for report

How about this for an epiphany - Jack Watts isn't the reason we lose games. He isn't what we thought. And his physicality is disappointing to say the least. But he gets attention and blame outside of what he deserves. Bernie Vince said this a few months ago. If we got rid of Watts, all we would be doing is getting rid of a scapegoat and moving onto the next one.

Hawthorn by 18. Points. No, I will not pass the crackpipe.

Told Nev Jetta that him versus Puopolo would be one thing worth watching, told me he will probably match off with all the forwards, he wouldn't mind a crack at Roughy

you know what gets you respect - winning. We deserve no respect from them.

Though it worked for several other clubs who chose wisely in their early selections and had success on the back of it.We chose badly, paid the penalty for that and paid again as the only club targeted for punishment for a practice that was deemed acceptable by the governing body and the whole competition.

For many supporters "don't care" about the wooden spoon may have kicked in long before the end-of-season ladder positions are determined. They wouldn't care about the spoon because they have been totally gutted for quite some time. I suspect I feel like that. The losses having taken a toll, if the spoon follows, it's only to be expected. Are you seriously trying to tell us that the wooden spoon this year should be a shock? Or that we should get in a lather about it? Of course we don't want it! For many MFC supporters, just holding on is the issue. Like, whether we will renew next year. Thousands of us will - do we need to be belted about the head because we feel gutted? Ask whether we don't care any more about MFC and I imagine you'd get a different set of responses; we'd spark up, I expect, and if we didn't, THAT would be a set of responses that would be worth getting worried about. All we are seeing here is how many supporters have reached saturation point about the disappointments of this particular season.

Why are people saying Gawn won't be around after 2016 He will be our number 1 ruckman, and I think he will be a key part to our rise He is still young, coming back from injury riddled years, and as we know the big blokes take longer

Dees by 4 points

I actually thought our form has been crap since Jordie Mckenzie has been back in the team.

Yes and No. I think it's inherently wrong that the system calculates penalties with extras for outcomes. I think it would be much better if the heaviest part of the weighting was for intent. A haymaker that doesn't connect just because of a player's lack of ability to connect would theoretically result in no penalty even though there was an intention to significantly hurt. But given the MRP system as it exists is meant to take into consideration the damage caused, then Merrett shouldn't be playing. A really good recent example of how the system is flawed is Reece Conca's suspension. Because of the intent with which he hit Smith, he should have received a minimum of four weeks, I would have thought. The damage to the recipient shouldn't make a difference - he intended to hit him (in a cowardly manner) and it's just lucky for Smith that greater damage wasn't done.

I'm with you stmj. I'm aware it defies all logic and form, but I reckon we'll be fired up and they'll be flat. I think psychologically it would be very hard for them to get up for this game given the absolute gulf in class. Might just be wishful thinking. I guess we'll see. We'll lose by 20 or so and C&B will say it should've been 80.

I reckon McKenzie and Blease have had their cards stamped. Probably Tappy also.

I was listening to SEN last night and they were talking about how PR still on occasions distances himself from the boys through the media when he uses words such as 'them', which suggests that he hasn't entirely left the idea that he is Paul Roos the premiership Sydney coach who is now Coaching melbournre for a while, and I do sometimes get the feel that he feels like a care taker coach, much the same as how Thompson often appears. He's certainly not as relaxed as thompson but theres snippets there. He needs to think about this come media time, and have it in his consciousness until it becomes second nature. I realise he has signed on, but this idea of his limited tenure isn't healthy I don't think. There are contracts but this is a bit different, I don't know of any other coaches that have said, 'look, ill take the role, but only for the next couple of years, then I'm out of coaching'. Wouldn't it be much more settling for the players if PR was committed to the idea of staying on indefinitely? I do believe when chip said "if rosy signs on, ill sign', I think chip meant for roos to sign on for several more years. Regarding the comments from Roos, Im not sure if he coming up with excuses, and i don't think he is suggesting that he's not up to it or that he shying away from the challenge. I think he is merely answering media questions. Under pressure our players panic and lose composure, whats the reasons behind this? Well in the past they had some heavy scrutinisation, labelled for tanking and experienced the clubs biggest loss in history, and for some players still at the club, the could potentially be a reason behind losing their nerve when confronted with pressure. I don't think its an inappropriate statement if he is answering questions, It is the right time of the year to be applying heat to the players that need to step up or get out. The players that are safe know about the past and i doubt those comments will affect them, as they're already doing what they can to push this team further ala jones. Further on that, 2/3 of the team have left since that game. so Roos is talking about a small handful of players and the lingering culture. Not suggesting that all of that is 100% accurate, just a view point. and no sources. anyway, with cross in, i think its possible to keep it to a reasonable loss. Jetts can shut down hill, cross cash get a grip on a key mid, jones go head to head with a mitchell or whoever really? frawley goes back on roughy. on paper, we should be able to be competitive.

Change for the sake of change. Delist 12 and two years later they are bemoaning the 'clogger' we got with Pick 85.

I love that the same posters that complain about our list of battlers that can't kick, then would like to pick up Taylor Hunt.

Sadly? What is sadly? Hawks will smack us if we don't STAND up! If these blokes don't have any fire in the belly to get better, then this club is fvcked.

Contrary to that Saty I think Dunn and Jetta are among the best in the team. Both can hit targets by hand and foot over most distances.

It's not just barracudas that I don't like Bob. I don't like anything fishy such as the activity of one particular poster who visits here infrequently but came out of the woodwork last night and quoted part of a post of mine but deliberately falsified the words which completely changed the context of what I'd written. That sort of thing is about as craven and as low as one can go and reminiscent of the dirty tricks campaigns carried out from time to time by shonky politicians (and given the location of one of his IP addresses I don't think that's entirely a co-incidence). The upshot is that this poster and his IP now have a life ban and I assume that explains your reference to "Barracudas" Back on topic, I've had a busy week so I only caught up with Caro's performance on FC last night and it confirmed that she continues to be a real piece of work who continues to apply double standards for different clubs. During the segment in which she slammed Melbourne for tanking five years ago she mentioned that like us, Carlton had also tanked. This is what she said in her execrable Demons: shock & awful article. "The Demons and their more rabid supporters keep banging on about the fact that everyone was doing it. No other club seems to have done it quite like this, though, and if Carlton is guilty then the current mood of the AFL indicates that club, too, will be forensically examined and punished." (my emphasis) Carlton haven't been "forensically examined and punished" and despite her role as chief football writer of the Age, she's not even suggested since that this should happen. Now that she agrees the Blues did tank why does she remain silent?

I think the days of Dave Dunbar hanging in a tree pretending to be a Koala are long gone, each club has contingency plans for the unexpected, Hawthorn probably know who we are going to put on the park before we on here do, Misso knows I post on here, so obviously he doesn't have an issue, you seem to be the only one that does

I remember some TV interview of the captain a Victorian country team that had just lost their 72nd game in a row. The captain said something like "Yeah, we have been a bit off lately but don't worry mate we will see how we go in the finals!" The interviewer exclaimed, "Finals? How could you be in the finals with that record?" The skipper replied, " We'll be there mate there are only four teams in our comp. We ALWAYS make the finals!" Maybe we could have a FINAL 18 in the AFL and we could follow suit?

It often frustrates me when people imply that any critique on Watts is blaming the entire clubs fortunes on him. I like the guy, and I can see his strengths - but given where we are at, and the way he plays his footy (combined with the fact that he actually has some currency at the trade table), I think he'd be a very astute choice to trade out - should a reasonable deal come up. There was a good article in the HUN (!) the other day, talking about which players you would want in the trenches with you when the time came. Needless to say, I didn't see Wattsy near the top. That's where we are as a club at the moment (and have been for 6 years) - in the trenches. If we are going to move up the ladder, then we need fighters in every single position. It's only been a recent decision for me, but I've now decided that I think we could move ourselves forward if we do a good trade for Watts.

The trouble is we all talk about but there is myriad of footballers (not just at our club) who just can't kick. This is what make Hawthorn stand apart from other clubs. They have quite a few footballer who I consider average but these footballers can all kick which means they get full value for money every time the ball in their hands. Priddis of WCE - although he has slightly improved, I still say the best way to win against the Eagles is give the ball to Priddis 40 times and you can throw Masten in there as well.

I have finally learnt to tell them apart. And if you can't tell by looking, Chris is the one who whinges most of the time, Brad is the one who whinges all the time.

I would be happy if we just traded out 1 player: Jack Watts. I know there are lots of Watts supporters here, but I have finally given up on him this year. He is the epitome of a lot that is wrong with our culture. Might not be his fault but there it is. Too soft, doesn't tackle, rarely chases, doesnt earn his own ball, can't keep to his feet, given too much of a free ride, something of a sacred cow because of some draft number label applied to him in the dim dark past. Fair dinkum, he plays more like a Jill or a Jacqueline than a Jack. It would send a huge message to the players, the club, supporters and the competition if we just grew some balls and called it quits with Watts. Enough is enough.

Wouldn't be too keen to go anywhere near Taylor Hunt. He's an athlete, not a footballer.

I am going hoping we have a real crack, I know Jetta, Cross, Jones N, Viney, Dunn will be leading the way, hopefully the rest follow...still having my favourite meal before the game though and taking a blindfold and a cigarette (just in case)

Stop with the stupid [censored] like 'we're going to get thrashed', I mean...what's the point of even watching the game if you don't acknowledge the possibility that we might have a chance to win or compete. I don't watch my team expecting us to lose convincingly anymore. I think on our good day, we can compete against anyone. Call it wishful thinking all you want...I prefer to be excited and optimistic as opposed to pessimistic and cynical even if my expectations might be unrealistic to some. Go the Dees!!

Martin is an exception because he actually had form when he left. If players like Blease and Tapscott haven't shown anything by now - then it is unlikely they will IMO. They've had more than enough chances, as has half our list.

Martin is the exception BM 90% of the others have sunk without trace

Oh go on, be a sport. It's clearly good [censored].

Why can't we put in a medical report like everyone seems to do against us!

Melbourne Footy ‏@MelbourneFooty 19m Dom Barry, Viv Michie, Matt Jones, Max Gawn, and Daniel Cross all return to the Melbourne side for Round 20. #AFLHawksDees

The Melbourne Dove's has a nice ring to it..

Someone needs to be held accountable for playing the MORTAL KOMBAT TECHNO SONG before the game.

I don't know what everybody's worried about, it would be a first if we lost tomorrow on Saturday.

Is it just a coincidence that our form has been down at the same time as Satyr's training reports appeared to have dried up?

Saty was Jamar training with the seniors? I suppose with Pedersen out Jamar is safe but boy he's lucky.

The NZ government got it right. Whenever an industry puts money before the game, then an argument could be made that it is for other purposes - money, entertainment, etc. Clearly the AFL have compromised the purity of the sport, by monetising it. The draw itself is based around TV rights and popularity. This whole equalisation debate cannot even be solved. Because here is the thing, the AFL is a money making machine, and it has ruined the game in order in order to get rich. Now people expect the AFL will equalise the very game it ruined, it's laughable.. All the AFL will do is try and equalise the money generated from stuffing up the game. Maybe the AFL is adapting with the times and it is neccessary, that is for more learned people than I to judge. But the way I see it, the only way to equalise the game is to let the game dictate business - as opposed to business dictating the direction of the game.

I won't address each player individually but these sorts of players can be in flag winning side - but you want them to be the 16 17 or 18th player picked. Assuming Bail has reached his ceiling - I have no problem with him on our list - but at the moment he would be in the first 10 players picked each week. What we require is him to be the one of the last 2 or 3 picked. Have a look at Hawthorns GF team last year. I will name 3 players and before I get howled down at how much better these players are than ours - factor in them playing in a far superior team who completely understand and execute a game plan and have confidence in each others abilities to run and deliver exactly as prescribed. Think of how these players would go in our current environment - Puopolo, Sheils, Simpkins. Would a Pderson at Hawthorn be any better or worse than a Stratton ? Our problem is not the players you mentioned - our problem is that we dont have a collection of Hodge, Roughhead, Rioli or Mitchell.

The infamous Andrews Report. Anyone ever seen it? Love to see a copy if someone wants to PM me. Don't read the Guardian but the article is spot on. Tanking is not the reason we are here. It's the poisonous relationship between the football dept and the players/Bailey at the time. The fact it was never dealt with and Schwab's contract was extended is diorectly attributable to the mess we are currently in.

A different journo for a change ~ Tanking isn't to blame for the Demons' seasons in hell

oh how i wish but let's not talk about impossible hypotheticals od

Not all , you would be getting rid of a serial underperformer and bringing in someone esle. You would be evolving the list. Its really quite simple an idea.

Why reward him and send him to a better club for poor performance. Let him suffer at the Dees like the rest of us.

We will struggle to make the finals this year.

You know your list is in trouble when Bail is a being talked about as a 'keeper'.