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I know of one bloke who's only serious about politics. Happens to be a supporter of the coalition but the same story could be told of Labor supporters. Anyway, from the day that Kevin '07 was elected back in 2007 he was a trenchant critic of the government. For six years all I heard from him was "pink batts", "carbon tax" and "Craig Thomson". Then on 18 September this year the public voted in a new government and ever since, this bloke has been running around, beating his chest and telling everybody about what a genius he is. If I start today and bag the coalition every day of the week for 3, 6 or 9 years, then one day, I'll be a genius too. Funny how politics and footy are similar.

Okay, let's give Magner a fair go. He tried his guts out - we can agree on this. He is hurt and disappointed - not unreasonable. He is obviously not media savy because he has only been a fringe player without much media experience and therefore has come over badly - give hin a break on this. Probably not good enough but would have to be considered stiff not have had another game after his upgrade last year. Good luck for the future!

Hey moderators - are you awake? Much of the last few pages should be transferred to the General Thread as it has absolutely nought to do with drafts and trading. In fact it is meaningless clutter, in the context.

You mean what the players did to put Shannon in the LG. I think a few on here have a reprehensible attitude to a bloke who simply signed a contract and wanted to be a Dee. At some point, we are going to stop regurgitating all our perceived failures and start moving in a forward direction.

Round 1, 2013 B Sellar Frawley Nicholson HB Dunn Garland Gillies C Grimes Jones Toumpas HF Watts Pedersen Sylvia FF Byrnes Clark Howe R Jamar McKenzie Viney I/C M. Jones Tapscott Rodan Blease Possible line-up round 1, 2014 B Clisby Frawley Garland HB Grimes McDonald Cross C Watts Jones Vince HF Trengove Hogan Howe FF Dawes Clark Kent R Jamar Tyson Viney I/C Michie Toumpas Pick 9 Blease Some will have McKenzie, Terlich or Matt Jones in, while others will have Blease, Toumpas, or Clisby out, but that will unfold over the next 6 months. I prefer Clisby to Terlich and Matt Jones had a good first year, but should struggle to make this side. The less I comment on McKenzie the better. Cross may be forward instead of back, Gawn instead of spud Jamar, etc. Also, I've named Hogan at CHF. He plays all of next year as a 19 year old and loves to work up the ground and double back, i.e. the classic CHF. I won't let his age restrict his output. We all know he'll be a gun CHF and I see no reason that he can't hold down that spot as a 19 year old right from the start. Others won't like me naming him there. Bolded are new to the club and underlined didn't play in round one last year; 11 players. Half the side. If they perform to expectations we'll be so superior to last year's outfit it's not funny. Well, maybe it is. It will take a couple of months into the year for the players to become adept at the new game-plan, but injuries permitting we could have a side that forms the nucleus of a very competitive outfit. Games of footy aren't played on paper, but I'm starting to like how ours looks.

No pace. Can't kick 30m. Poor skills. Clogger on any AFL list.....even the worst one in the league.

If Toumpas handcuffs himself to Daniel Cross all Pre Season and follow every move he makes the kid will be a star. Nothing better for the likes of Toumpas, Viney and Barry to learn off one of the AFL greatest Role model.

Sweet mother of god...did we really have all of Gillies, Pedersen and Sellar playing in Round 1? Suddenly that result makes perfect sense.

Thanks. I just remembered that we had a General Discussion board that I haven't visited for ages so I wandered over there with the full intention of playing that game with the posters over there. You won't believe it but I found this thread called "Tony Abbott is an international embarrassment" and blow me down. They've been playing your game for months. Some of BH's best work's in there. Who needs footy politics when you can have the real thing?

Crap article - even crappier headline (in the paper): "Demons in disarray." I would be obliged if anyone can point out to me how Magner having a sook about being left out of the side becomes a "picture of dysfunction and confusion".

Lennon at number 9 for me...number 9...number 9...number 9...

If you go I'll go to. Back and forward we are top 8 material, our midfield will improve significantly, we have a competent FD the players will have complete confidence in and a game plan which will suit the players strengths and a coach who will bring the best out of them. We also have a CEO that will bring respect to the club and I think that helps the players generally because they feel good about the place. I'm bullish and I think we will surprise many next year. We've had a terrible coach for the last 2 years and whilst that is acknowledged I don't think people understand the impact that had on the playing group. We are much better than many think.

??? Jr was named in the AA team in '06 and won 2 bluey's.

Have you read the last few pages rpfc?

football rumours anyone ?

It can be if you have a recruiter and list manager that are good at their jobs. Good drafting and trading over two years can make a huge difference. Lets look at last year and this year so far, before the 2013 draft. Ins Hogan, Viney, Toumpas, Dawes, Terlich, Clisby, Jones, Vince, Tyson, Cross, Michie, Barry. With pick 9 to come and PSD 2 and a couple of other picks in the ND that is a big turnaround. Then of course there is good coaching and development and we have to hope that Roos and his men will be better than those before, ( shouldn't be too hard). I am setting myself up for a fall here, but I believe that with good luck injury wise, a good game plan and buy in from the players, Mitch Clarke playing a whole year with Hogan and Dawes, improvement in some of those named above, a couple more good picks in the drafts coming up and good development, we will make a significant improvement this year. Then again, we are the MFC.

Amino, I'm not sure I agree. When managing people in a group, I feel it is very important to inject positivity and confidence into the group. One generally doesn't do this by running individuals down and micro managing everyone within an inch of their life. Hiring the right people, and then giving them clean air to perform their respective roles, is the key. It builds trust and typically enables individuals, and therefore the group, to perform at their best. Clearly Neeld didn't do this, or even recognise the importance of this. Roos does. And, relevantly, he is also a very experienced, knowledgeable and competent coach. We'll see a huge turnaround next season IMO. Our list is simply not that bad. We now have a decent coach. And the makings of a midfield. I'm excited.

I have remarkably little respect for both major parties. My vote was based on who I least wanted in power.

lol this threads gone off the rails, if you want jabber on politics, open a new thread, or better yet, a new forum.

Politics shouldn't be the same. The fact that so many Australians approach politics with the blind emotional allegiance that sports supporters feel for their sports team instead of thinking about policy and the good of the country I one of the biggest things that annoys me about Australia. we used to play a game on a one eyed party man at work. We'd tell him a policy of the party he hated and say it was his parry's policy. He'd tell us how astute it was until we told him it was the other party and then without realizing how much of a blind ignoramus it made him look he'd suddenly tell us how bad the policy was. Lets not let unbiased considered thought get in the way of our party allegiance...

900 pounds of pure woman that will go right for your mother [censored] balls.

My prayers have already been answered BBO as you have returned to your original avatar

Annually we all become drafting experts based on 2 minutes of video It's a bit like the Olympics where every 4 years we become expert judges in things like diving. No splash ..gotta be a 9.4 It's fun Sue, you should play as well

According to the AFL Barometer for Melbourne, "players with one to four years' experience resume on November 6, while others are back on November 18." That's the start of the official training roster but it's my understanding that quite a few players have hit the gym early and there might well be a bit of rivalry among our ruck brigade to reach new heights of strength and fitness down there at AAMI Park. In any event, as much as I would love to be out there on Wednesday on that historic day when training under Paul Roos kicks off, work beckons. Is there any information as to the time and place for the first run? Of course, reports, as always, are appreciated.

Enough of that thanks. You can conduct a good debate without resorting to the put downs so please leave it alone.

This put me off http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/2013-draft-discussion.1000946/page-90#post-30767854

We only need to pick him once.

Bahahahaha I've actually seen Barrass play live a dozen times - he's a completely different type of key back to Gibson and if he nominates for the draft he should go top 40, so badging him as a rookie is wide of the mark, notwithstanding he profiles physically and athletically completely different to Gibson. Pongracic is what some recruiters call a wombat - stocky, slow, insidish, without the range or X factor in his game that's desirable to Afl clubs. My report on Barrass' teammate Steve Edwards is above and he is a quality player who could be special if he wants to be and has the question marks that may see him slide below the draft spot his talent warrants. I like Guy Page from Sturt - a small quick back pocket, but he may be too small and doesn't do enough probably. Todd McKay is another I don't mind - hard at it midfielder from South Adelaide. But they're both very outside chances to get picked up.

I actually laughed when I saw that team. It's a bit sad that we thought that was an AFL-standard side, really. I'll back B-H in with his assessment of Hogan; he appears to have seen more of him than most of us. I too would be wary of putting too much on his shoulders, but I guess if you're going to do it, at least do it with a mountain of a man who has played his final junior year with men and not boys. Also, starting him as an interchange makes it worse, if anything. Think of the raptures of the supporters as he strides onto the ground 2 minutes in. At least Round 1 is at Etihad and thus without the MCC behind him. Agree re: Blease, but I have no faith whatsoever in him. If he does come on, that would be a wonderful X-factor to add to the side, but I fear that ship has long-sailed (add Strauss to that category). To me, pick 9 may be duelling with McKenzie for the final spot in the side. Depends on the type of player we take, of course.

What on earth is a "Neeld move"? IIRC one of the first people recruited under his watch was Mitch Clark. We also recruited Chris Dawes, Jack Viney, Jimmy Toumpas, Jesse Hogan, Dean Kent, Matt Jones, Dean Terlich and Mitch Clisby under Neeld. Can you compare these with the various "Daniher moves" and "Bailey moves" of the past?

Ooh. Just watched lennons footage. There's some swagger. What is exciting is that for me one of Lennon, freeman or Salem will be available at 9. We will get a potential star

Anthony albanese from the alp looking at a trade. Libs are looking at a medical to bring him in, possibly at the expense of bronwyn bishop. Bishop has had a good career to date but stagnated a little in 2013 and could do with a new home. Libs not sure what it would take to get the deal done, possibly need to throw in a sweetener, with rumours an exchange of seats could push the deal forward. Stay tuned

The basis is he has said 'On the Couch' that you need more than a small crumbing forward, they need to be able to work up the ground. Geelong don't have a specialist small forward, Stevie J does most of his work as a mid now and the others you allude to like Motlop, Stokes and Christiansen all work up the ground. The Alwyn Davey type small forward is obsolete, it's why the bombers have cut him. What we need and what we will have are forwards who can work up the ground, midfielders who can kick goals.

YES.

Feel his frustration completely. Highly capable clearance, in and under player forced to play the 'nothing role' of a defensive forward whilst his team is crying out for a midfielders. When his impact is diminished in this role he is dropped to the VFL where no amount of 30 possession games or listings in the best will earn him a recall. No communication was offered to him to explain his situation despite his proactive approach to seeking feedback from coaches on how to improve. Can not understand how Magner could not hold a position in our midfield over the last 2 years considering our situation. Players such as him and Valenti are stamped too slow/small and shown the door much too easily when what remains is laughable. These types are not often found in the midfield of a premiership side but when you can't even win games I would choose these guys first to get the job done in the trenches.

I remember when Neeld started, Malthouse advised him to take complete control of everything to avoid being put in a Bailey type situation. I suspect he gave similar advice to Watters with StKFC and MFC both being weak dysfunctional clubs. If you've been around as long as Mick, it's probably not that hard to do, but in your first gig as senior coach? IMO this has as much to do with it as anything else. - Mick could balance the 'my way or the highway' approach with his obligation to get the best out of every player on the list. I don't think Neeld or Watters could or would.

Interesting to see that he wants to play for another 2 to 3 years and there's no reason why not, could get 50 to 60 games out of him.

Their club is such a shambles. How embarrassing would it be to follow the Saints.... TBH , I get no pleasure from seeing the Saints spiral down the gurgler,as with the Dogs. I would prefer to see Collingwood, Geelong or Hawthorn descend into rabble than see the Saints go through this. Their delay of the rebuild was critically stupid. Their board is full of more degenerate losers than ours or even Richmonds, which is a feat. Always at board level, they get spivvy bayside tossers with 2 buck companies and a merc and think they have done well. Linfox should privatise the joint.

There's a budget horror flick comin out soon I think called Drop Bear. From the look of the trailer it's going to be one of those so bad it ends up being good

We aren't an embarassment , we're an opportunity.

I know the author of an article is not usually responsible for the headline but when this story about Jimmy Magner spoke of "Demons in disarray", I was a trifle bemused. Anyway, I can't wait to see how the HUN sub editors describe the situation at St. Kilda tomorrow morning.

I was never a fan but if what he says is true he has every reason to be confused and disappointed. If the club could not explain to him why he was not getting a game and why he was delisted it is shocking player management. If he was told and is bitching then he's a dope. I find it easy to believe that Neeld failed to communicate but I'm surprised that Neil Craig and Roos could not articulate the position fully and accurately.

Saints supporter on BF: "Geez, how many dwarves are we gonna burn this off-season?"

Look he's a human being chasing a dream and so I feel for him. However we gave him a go as a mature aged recruit when nobody else would and he just wasn't good enough. Did he deserve to get a game after collecting 51 possessions, of course, would that have changed his long term future? No. I don't appreciate players who knock a club that gave them an opportunity, no matter how limited, when nobody else would. Good luck to him, but publicy burning his old club would do nothing for his future chances in this industry.

Don't know why, but I feel sorry for them. Haven't seen the wheels fall off a club this badly since... oh yeah, that's why. Empathy.

Sound it out- it's not that hard. Bon-temp-elli. Easier than kolodjashnij- Kolo-jash-nij.. stuff it, let's just draft Freeman- Free-man.

As soon as I saw your name I knew you'd be responding to me. You make me laugh Timmy. As for judgement calls ? i always lean to giving any new CEO, coach, president, etc the benefit of the doubt. That's the way I roll. Unlike others, I don't remain steadfastly wedded to a view. As evidence comes to hand I process it. But you keep getting rapt up in my views and posts all you like. I'll give you the odd bone if you're a good boy.

I guess if you're really that great James you will get another chance on someone else's list. Personally I think you did all you could and got the most out of yourself which all supporters should applaud you for. But at the end of the day the decision makers wanted to move you on - it happens to a great nymber of players each year unfortunately. Pointing the finger and being critical of the group who gifted you the chance in AFL is not really the best move right now

I think it's fairly clear that the Roos philosophy with his team is to develop a culture which engenders respect. Anyone who read the Oracle's piece on Cross and his off the field deeds and the respect within which he was held at the Bulldogs would know that this bloke is a handy person to have at a club, especially one like ours that has lost a lot of respect in the football world over the past six or seven seasons when we went from being the best performed Victorian team to the consistently worst performed. Naturally, we need blokes who can turn games around off their own boots but that will only come about when your entire team is respected. I think therefore that Cross will be as welcome and as important an addition to the club as Dom Tyson, Bernie Vince, pick # 9 and Paul Roos himself. Of course, Jesse Hogan's another matter altogether but that's another story ... I'm ready for the Saints in Round 1. In fact bring on whoever we're due to play in that truncated pre season competition!

I actually admire what Watters is doing a the Saints. The leadership culture at that club has been abysmal for a decade - they would have won a flag or two if they have stopped all the drinking, whoring, texting, and other rubbish that wasn't only tolerated it was promoted. Ross Lyon aimed for the stars on the back of Grant Thomas' recruiting but failed to develop much young talent. He is doing the same now at Freo on the back of Mark Harvey's recruiting. The Saints need kids with talent and character, and Watters is undertaking this task at a very quick rate. Their stars are guns, but aging guns. Therefore, if we can break even in the middle we win the match. Play Gawn in the ruck, and run Fitzy through the ruck off the bench. Jordie to stifle Stevens. Set N Jones, Trengove, Viney, Tyson and Toumpas to make sure disposals, tackles, inside 50's from the 2 midfields are about even. Fit and firing Dawes, Hogan and Clark will be far too much for the Saints defense. McDonald to run all night with Riewoldt Blease and Watts to play wide in the run-and-carry roles With this set up, the odds are in our favour. But I will be very, very nervous. Round 1 has been a nightmare for 8 years!